Refusing to be vaccinated against Covid-19 is a ’sin’ & anti-vaxxers must spend their life repenting

Status
Not open for further replies.

FenderTL5

Κύριε, ἐλέησον.
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2016
5,085
5,960
Nashville TN
✟634,456.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
..how many people would be expected to die in the reference population in that timeframe absent the vaccination. Mortality rates are pretty well understood.
overheard: "Statistically speaking if 3 million people are getting the vaccine one of them will die in a car crash on the way home. Which means some idiot is going to Facebook message me that the vaccine causes car accidents."
 
Upvote 0

gzt

The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years
Jul 14, 2004
10,599
1,872
Abolish ICE
Visit site
✟117,925.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
overheard: "Statistically speaking if 3 million people are getting the vaccine one of them will die in a car crash on the way home. Which means some idiot is going to Facebook message me that the vaccine causes car accidents."
I believe the denialists recognized a similar problem when they were claiming that death certificates were listing COVID 19 as the cause of death for anybody who had COVID any time near death whether or not the death was in fact related. I don't believe this was actually how COVID deaths were being counted in most jurisdictions. In most places, they were likely undercounted. Here with VAERS we are, in fact, mandated to record data in this way. It's just so odd that people are attaching a religious tinge to this.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 16, 2011
5,208
2,548
57
Home
Visit site
✟234,667.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
I might take the product that's made by Novavax if and when it becomes available to me and if it's reasonable for me to do so. The "U.S.A. approved" vaccines all relied upon tests performed on fetal cell lines that were produced from cells stolen from a child who was intentionally aborted by their mother with the help of child abortionists. So I'm fairly certain I won't be accepting to be vaccinated with any such products made by "those" companies. This is one big reason that I said earlier that I'm waiting. My wife isn't being afforded the luxury of waiting. Her employer will terminate her on the 27th of this month if she can't show proof of vaccination by that time. Such a measure was mandated by the Governor of our state about 2 weeks after he resigned from his office under the fire of multiple sexual harassment allegations, as well as claims that he covered up information that would expose how many people have died as the result of his requirement that nursing home facilities take in Covid-19 patients. I don't know what she'll decide. All I could tell her is that whether she vaccinates or does not vaccinate, that she should vaccinate or not vaccinate for the Lord (Romans 14:8), and nobody else.
 
Upvote 0

Taodeching

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2020
1,540
1,110
51
Southwest
✟60,418.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Says the person who likens anyone who does not wish to receive the vaccines to war criminals. Forgive me if I don't pay much attention to your opinion.

That is a gross mischaracterization. I stated and still maintain any anti vaxxer is a war criminal not one who is hesitant to receive one.
 
Upvote 0

All4Christ

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Mar 11, 2003
11,683
8,019
PA
Visit site
✟1,021,660.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Uh, anyone here NOT anti-vax? I'm feeling kinda lonely over here...
Me.

I am vaccinated, as is my priest and bishop. (I don’t like the idea of it being forced upon people though.)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Lain Iwakura

Active Member
Aug 26, 2021
213
225
30
Windsor
✟19,180.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
In Relationship
I might take the product that's made by Novavax if and when it becomes available to me and if it's reasonable for me to do so. The "U.S.A. approved" vaccines all relied upon tests performed on fetal cell lines that were produced from cells stolen from a child who was intentionally aborted by their mother with the help of child abortionists. So I'm fairly certain I won't be accepting to be vaccinated with any such products made by "those" companies. This is one big reason that I said earlier that I'm waiting. My wife isn't being afforded the luxury of waiting. Her employer will terminate her on the 27th of this month if she can't show proof of vaccination by that time. Such a measure was mandated by the Governor of our state about 2 weeks after he resigned from his office under the fire of multiple sexual harassment allegations, as well as claims that he covered up information that would expose how many people have died as the result of his requirement that nursing home facilities take in Covid-19 patients. I don't know what she'll decide. All I could tell her is that whether she vaccinates or does not vaccinate, that she should vaccinate or not vaccinate for the Lord (Romans 14:8), and nobody else.

Yeah, I tried to get recruited into their trials.
 
  • Like
Reactions: truefiction1
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Well, a few things. First of all, I have no idea who you are. You come in here with a couple hundred posts barnstorming throwing not-so-nice adjectives my way that are not appreciated. Not a great way to break the ice with me.

You work for multiple governments. Governments have the right to require you to do your part to get vaccinated. The vaccine is safe. It has born out that reality over and over. You won't grow a tail or get magnetized or have microchips placed into you a la the X Files. You won't get any of the nonsense we hear from the Alex Jones crowd. The government doesn't want its workers spreading the delta variant. Military folks are being required to get vaccinated. Ok. Good. We don't want soldiers and airmen and sailors spreading a plague either.

If people are retiring because they're terrified to get a protein spike, that's their right, but if you're expecting me to cry a river over someone quitting their job unnecessarily, don't hold your breath, Lain.

I don't need to be gracious toward people who are making a mountain out of a mole hill. My daughter wasn't a bit scared to get the vaccine. She did fine. My buddy's daughter ran down excited to get vaccinated. She did fine. My sons, both of them, fine. My diabetic priest...fine. My elderly parents...fine. We're just doing our part to try to bring an end to this and not giving in to paranoia or conspiracies.


Yes, yes, you do, because the question you raised is coercion. First you say, it's not there and doesn't matter, and now you say, yes, it is coercion and coercion shouldn't matter. You are being inconsistent and uncharitable.
Yes. Yes, I have been coerced. And yes, I have fallen under a mandate, being an employee of multiple governments. And yes, my family, whom I am not in much contact with, also are under such, and so are several of my friends - with many people I know being under punitive and often nonsensical requirements to maintain employment with narrowly won exemptions (requiring, for some, the use of a lawyer.) And yeah, people are preparing for that to be withdrawn. I was talking to someone close to me who is withdrawing their retirement money, in order to put it into 'practical resources' due to the the very real possibility of being unable to earn money in the near future.

Others in my parish, being in a high military area, were vaccinated against their wills - being told by their commanders to either be vaccinated or face severe punitive and disciplinary actions - with no possibility of exemption, despite the pretenses given.

Perhaps, if you are not experiencing such coercion, you should be, at least gracious towards those that are.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Taodeching
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Prisoners living in a sea of covid being asked to get vaccinated to not spread a virus is somehow awful and oppressive. I just don't see it. Prisons are cesspools of disease and a pandemic spreads like wildfire in there. I guess the prisoner who wants to see his family just has to get a little poke and a sore arm, problem solved.

My dad had to get a battery of vaccines to go off to Vietnam in 66. He did. Kids have been required to get vaxxed to enter elementary school and then junior high for years. No big woop. But you hear people in here saying, "I am not anti-vaxx, I just don't like this very dangerous covid untested vaccine" (which, in itself is poppycock). But what these folks don't understand is that the anti-vaxx movement has gained a ton of steam over the past 15 years. Celebrities and big name folks have thrown out the conspiracy theories that vaccines cause autism and mental illness, birth defects, and other internet hoo-hoo junk. Those conspiracy theories, never grounded in real research or medicine, have taken root instilling unnecessary paranoia in people now for many years. The covid vaccine is the ultimate dream for anti-vaxxers. This past year has really put them on the map. People steadily latch on to conspiracies and often don't even realize it.

Gurney, a prisoner who refuses the vaccine is assured never to see family again - even as prison communication corporations are using the pandemic to make all contact purely digital (in violation of basic human and civil rights law.) A prisoner who wishes to refuse vaccination may be put into isolation for perpetuity and things are only getting worse.
 
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,553
3,534
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟240,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Because the vaccines we took as kids (which were less than now) were vetted and went through years and some, decades, of testing and trials, double blind placebo tests, animal testing, etc. before introducing them to human beings. This shot did not go through those vigorous methods. And vaccine companies could be sued before 1986, if they caused injury, harm, or death to a person/people. They aren't the same, and it gets tiring seeing the comparisons used in this thread and elsewhere to try and make a point.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: anna ~ grace
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Strange argument. It almost sounds like your objection to the vaccine isn't the vaccine, but you dislike someone telling you that you should get the vaccine? Pressure from governments wasn't in play back in the Depression/WWII era, so people got the vaccines. Now that government is pressuring us, we shouldn't take the vaccine? Very odd. It's like a kid knowing broccoli is good for him, but because mom is demanding he eat it, he feeds it to the dog out of spite.

Most of the alternative drugs that you hear from far right wing groups are not as effective as the vaccine and top epidemiologists and virologists are not finding those treatments compelling. It is about the virus. Are you in the camp that says we should take horse de-worming pills, drink bleach like Trump suggested, take hydroxychloroquin, etc? It's amazing that folks in this anti-vaxx camp just loooooove Hydroxychloroquin! My wife, a Nurse Practitioner (someone who knows what she's actually talking about!) worked 8 years in a cardiac ward as head nurse. She has said countless times that such a treatment is very dicey and extremely dangerous for folks with high blood pressure, stents, heart disease, and a history of strokes, etc. Imagine, Dorothea, how many people in the good ole US of A have

heart disease
history of strokes
stents
enlarged hearts
history of heart attacks
water around the heart, etc.

I'm willing to bet you dollars to doughnuts that if 100,000 people died from hydroxy with heart-related issues, you wouldn't take notice, but when a much smaller 6,000 folks die from the vaccine, you will be on that like white on rice.

Here's argument #1 from the conspiracy crew: "Don't take that dang vaccine! It's not FDA-approved!" (the hilarious part is that these same conspiracy folks HATE the government, so it boggles the mind that they seem to suddenly care about FDA approval?!). However, what does the FDA, the group these folks suddenly cherish, say about Ivermectin? IT'S DANGEROUS AND DO NOT TAKE IT! They also say that is is ineffective. But hey, Joe Rogan took it, so heck, he's as good as a virologist! :sigh::sigh::sigh::scratch::sick:

Likewise, the FDA says that trials show hydroxychloroquin is not effective or recommended in the treatment of COVID-19 or its mutations.....yet, heck, we keep hearing how amazing it is from people who have never even known someone who has used it!

So, argument #1 is that the FDA is obviously to be trusted.
Argument #2 is to take a bunch of non-approved-by the FDA oddities like horse dewormers and malaria treatments.

Now that the vaccine is FDA-approved, we'll no doubt hear the conspiracy cabal say, "Oh yeah, well, the FDA only approved it under duress and pressure by evil authoritarian regimes worldwide! It's still lethal!" Same mentality when they said Obama wasn't a real American citizen. "We want a birth certificate!" They produced one. What did they say next? "It's a forgery, a fake!" In other words, if you want to keep a conspiracy alive, you will do what it takes to feed it.

I find it extremely hard to believe that top scientists, top virologists and epidemiologists, top doctors, major organizations of doctors and nurses worldwide, hospitals, health experts all would push a dangerous poisonous vaccine on all of us. It would be so far beyond the pale of unethical that it would be unimaginable. Plus, is it really plausible that folks like Putin, North Korea, China, the Russians, Cuba, Iran and all the "bad guys" would come together with the EU, the US, Canada, Australia, and Middle Easterners and Jews in Israel, the entire world (that clearly doesn't get along) and they just suddenly agree, "You know, the world population is just too big. We need to kill off a lot of people. Also, we need to magnetize folks. Some we can track with tiny microchips. The rest we'll kill off with Jewish space lasers! I know we all hate each other, Donald, Vladimir, Kim, Boris, Angela, fellas, but lets put aside our myriad differences to kill off a sizable piece of the population!" A smoke-f

The difference with polio, measles, etc. -- global pressure, control, and power from most governments weren't present then. It's not about the virus. If it was, every type of treatment, medicine, etc. would be administered. Instead, the narrow path is the rushed needle (still going through trials from what I've read, for another year or two). Why?

it's interesting to note, those "conspiracy theorists" screamed about vaccine mandates and passports would be coming, and lo and behold, it's happening in countries around the globe.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Taodeching
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,553
3,534
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟240,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
And the most important, crucial point, is what our elders and saints have been warning us about with regard to this shot and all the insane tyranny surrounding it. It's conditioning people, preparing them for the antichrist, whenever that is. The more you give into all these new evasive technical advances, the more open and malleable you'll be if we are still alive in the last days. Several holy men have spoken on this. That is the most vital info out there, and wisdom supersedes a group of scientists and doctors tied to big $$.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: anna ~ grace
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,553
3,534
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟240,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Strange argument. It almost sounds like your objection to the vaccine isn't the vaccine, but you dislike someone telling you that you should get the vaccine? Pressure from governments wasn't in play back in the Depression/WWII era, so people got the vaccines. Now that government is pressuring us, we shouldn't take the vaccine? Very odd. It's like a kid knowing broccoli is good for him, but because mom is demanding he eat it, he feeds it to the dog out of spite.

Most of the alternative drugs that you hear from far right wing groups are not as effective as the vaccine and top epidemiologists and virologists are not finding those treatments compelling. It is about the virus. Are you in the camp that says we should take horse de-worming pills, drink bleach like Trump suggested, take hydroxychloroquin, etc? It's amazing that folks in this anti-vaxx camp just loooooove Hydroxychloroquin! My wife, a Nurse Practitioner (someone who knows what she's actually talking about!) worked 8 years in a cardiac ward as head nurse. She has said countless times that such a treatment is very dicey and extremely dangerous for folks with high blood pressure, stents, heart disease, and a history of strokes, etc. Imagine, Dorothea, how many people in the good ole US of A have

heart disease
history of strokes
stents
enlarged hearts
history of heart attacks
water around the heart, etc.

I'm willing to bet you dollars to doughnuts that if 100,000 people died from hydroxy with heart-related issues, you wouldn't take notice, but when a much smaller 6,000 folks die from the vaccine, you will be on that like white on rice.

Here's argument #1 from the conspiracy crew: "Don't take that dang vaccine! It's not FDA-approved!" (the hilarious part is that these same conspiracy folks HATE the government, so it boggles the mind that they seem to suddenly care about FDA approval?!). However, what does the FDA, the group these folks suddenly cherish, say about Ivermectin? IT'S DANGEROUS AND DO NOT TAKE IT! They also say that is is ineffective. But hey, Joe Rogan took it, so heck, he's as good as a virologist! :sigh::sigh::sigh::scratch::sick:

Likewise, the FDA says that trials show hydroxychloroquin is not effective or recommended in the treatment of COVID-19 or its mutations.....yet, heck, we keep hearing how amazing it is from people who have never even known someone who has used it!

So, argument #1 is that the FDA is obviously to be trusted.
Argument #2 is to take a bunch of non-approved-by the FDA oddities like horse dewormers and malaria treatments.

Now that the vaccine is FDA-approved, we'll no doubt hear the conspiracy cabal say, "Oh yeah, well, the FDA only approved it under duress and pressure by evil authoritarian regimes worldwide! It's still lethal!" Same mentality when they said Obama wasn't a real American citizen. "We want a birth certificate!" They produced one. What did they say next? "It's a forgery, a fake!" In other words, if you want to keep a conspiracy alive, you will do what it takes to feed it.

I find it extremely hard to believe that top scientists, top virologists and epidemiologists, top doctors, major organizations of doctors and nurses worldwide, hospitals, health experts all would push a dangerous poisonous vaccine on all of us. It would be so far beyond the pale of unethical that it would be unimaginable. Plus, is it really plausible that folks like Putin, North Korea, China, the Russians, Cuba, Iran and all the "bad guys" would come together with the EU, the US, Canada, Australia, and Middle Easterners and Jews in Israel, the entire world (that clearly doesn't get along) and they just suddenly agree, "You know, the world population is just too big. We need to kill off a lot of people. Also, we need to magnetize folks. Some we can track with tiny microchips. The rest we'll kill off with Jewish space lasers! I know we all hate each other, Donald, Vladimir, Kim, Boris, Angela, fellas, but lets put aside our myriad differences to kill off a sizable piece of the population!" A smoke-f
Have you heard of the Great Barrington Declaration that came out in the fall of 2020? A bunch of doctors and scientists and then regular citizens have signed the declaration (a common sense approach to the virus):

Great Barrington Declaration
As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection.

total signatures
856,404

concerned citizens
797,721

medical & public health scientists
14,879

medical practitioners
43,804



The Great Barrington Declaration – As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection.

Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice.

Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals.

Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity.

On October 4, 2020, this declaration was authored and signed in Great Barrington, United States, by:


Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations.

Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.

SIGN THE DECLARATION
Co-signers
Medical and Public Health Scientists and Medical Practitioners
Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA

Dr. Andrius Kavaliunas, epidemiologist and assistant professor at Karolinska Institute, Sweden

Dr. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital Medical School, University of London, England

Dr. Anthony J Brookes, professor of genetics, University of Leicester, England

Dr. Annie Janvier, professor of pediatrics and clinical ethics, Université de Montréal and Sainte-Justine University Medical Centre, Canada

Dr. Ariel Munitz, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Boris Kotchoubey, Institute for Medical Psychology, University of Tübingen, Germany

Dr. Cody Meissner, professor of pediatrics, expert on vaccine development, efficacy, and safety. Tufts University School of Medicine, USA

Dr. David Katz, physician and president, True Health Initiative, and founder of the Yale University Prevention Research Center, USA

Dr. David Livermore, microbiologist, infectious disease epidemiologist and professor, University of East Anglia, England

Dr. Eitan Friedman, professor of medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Ellen Townsend, professor of psychology, head of the Self-Harm Research Group, University of Nottingham, England

Dr. Eyal Shahar, physician, epidemiologist and professor (emeritus) of public health, University of Arizona, USA

Dr. Florian Limbourg, physician and hypertension researcher, professor at Hannover Medical School, Germany

Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland

Dr. Gerhard Krönke, physician and professor of translational immunology, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany

Dr. Gesine Weckmann, professor of health education and prevention, Europäische Fachhochschule, Rostock, Germany

Dr. Günter Kampf, associate professor, Institute for Hygiene and Environmental Medicine, Greifswald University, Germany

Dr. Helen Colhoun, professor of medical informatics and epidemiology, and public health physician, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Dr. Jonas Ludvigsson, pediatrician, epidemiologist and professor at Karolinska Institute and senior physician at Örebro University Hospital, Sweden

Dr. Karol Sikora, physician, oncologist, and professor of medicine at the University of Buckingham, England

Dr. Laura Lazzeroni, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and of biomedical data science, Stanford University Medical School, USA

Dr. Lisa White, professor of modelling and epidemiology, Oxford University, England

Dr. Mario Recker, malaria researcher and associate professor, University of Exeter, England

Dr. Matthew Ratcliffe, professor of philosophy, specializing in philosophy of mental health, University of York, England

Dr. Matthew Strauss, critical care physician and assistant professor of medicine, Queen’s University, Canada

Dr. Michael Jackson, research fellow, School of Biological Sciences, University of Canterbury, New Zealand

Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA. Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.

Dr. Mike Hulme, professor of human geography, University of Cambridge, England

Dr. Motti Gerlic, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Partha P. Majumder, professor and founder of the National Institute of Biomedical Genomics, Kalyani, India

Dr. Paul McKeigue, physician, disease modeler and professor of epidemiology and public health, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Dr. Rajiv Bhatia, physician, epidemiologist and public policy expert at the Veterans Administration, USA

Dr. Rodney Sturdivant, infectious disease scientist and associate professor of biostatistics, Baylor University, USA

Dr. Salmaan Keshavjee, professor of Global Health and Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School, USA

Dr. Simon Thornley, epidemiologist and biostatistician, University of Auckland, New Zealand

Dr. Simon Wood, biostatistician and professor, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Dr. Stephen Bremner,professor of medical statistics, University of Sussex, England

Dr. Sylvia Fogel, autism provider and psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital and instructor at Harvard Medical School, USA

Tom Nicholson, Associate in Research, Duke Center for International Development, Sanford School of Public Policy, Duke University, USA

Dr. Udi Qimron, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Ulrike Kämmerer, professor and expert in virology, immunology and cell biology, University of Würzburg, Germany

Dr. Uri Gavish, biomedical consultant, Israel

Dr. Yaz Gulnur Muradoglu, professor of finance, director of the Behavioural Finance Working Group, Queen Mary University of London, England

Great Barrington Declaration and Petition
 
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What gets tiresome is that you keep making the point so that the rebuttal needs to take place, Dot.

Have you ever actually read about the testing and trials on the vaccine? I'm willing to bet my kidney you haven't. You heard it somewhere by somebody on some website or on Newsmax, something....

Do you really, seriously, honestly think this vaccine was just invented by some nobody in a lab, someone latched onto it, threw it at their bosses, and the governments of the world just grabbed it willy-nilly and threw it at us all? Seriously? You have a college degree, Dot, come on. Seriously?

A Timeline of COVID-19 Vaccine Development | BioSpace

You are comparing apples to oranges in many ways. mRNA vaccines are not like traditional vaccines where you take a neutered version of a disease and stick it into someone's arm. This technology is actually in many ways safer and the part you don't seem to realize is that it's excretable. It doesn't stay in your system forever. In addition, you should be just as outraged by the lies and nonsense spouted by anti-vaxxers as you are the 'evil government' in that these folks lie and lie through their teeth about how the vaccine "penetrates your DNA and alters it, mutating humanity." What rubbish. The same doofus folks who took biology in high school and thought DNA and RNA are the same thing now run websites to "inform" us.

Because the vaccines we took as kids (which were less than now) were vetted and went through years and some, decades, of testing and trials, double blind placebo tests, animal testing, etc. before introducing them to human beings. This shot did not go through those vigorous methods. And vaccine companies could be sued before 1986, if they caused injury, harm, or death to a person/people. They aren't the same, and it gets tiring seeing the comparisons used in this thread and elsewhere to try and make a point.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Taodeching
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Herd immunity letter signed by fake experts including 'Dr Johnny Bananas'

Have you heard of the Great Barrington Declaration that came out in the fall of 2020? A bunch of doctors and scientists and then regular citizens have signed the declaration (a common sense approach to the virus):

Great Barrington Declaration
As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection.

total signatures
856,404

concerned citizens
797,721

medical & public health scientists
14,879

medical practitioners
43,804



The Great Barrington Declaration – As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection.

Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice.

Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals.

Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity.

On October 4, 2020, this declaration was authored and signed in Great Barrington, United States, by:


Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, a biostatistician, and epidemiologist with expertise in detecting and monitoring infectious disease outbreaks and vaccine safety evaluations.

Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University, an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, vaccine development, and mathematical modeling of infectious diseases.

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician, epidemiologist, health economist, and public health policy expert focusing on infectious diseases and vulnerable populations.

SIGN THE DECLARATION
Co-signers
Medical and Public Health Scientists and Medical Practitioners
Dr. Alexander Walker, principal at World Health Information Science Consultants, former Chair of Epidemiology, Harvard TH Chan School of Public Health, USA

Dr. Andrius Kavaliunas, epidemiologist and assistant professor at Karolinska Institute, Sweden
Dr. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital Medical School, University of London, England

Dr. Anthony J Brookes, professor of genetics, University of Leicester, England

Dr. Annie Janvier, professor of pediatrics and clinical ethics, Université de Montréal and Sainte-Justine University Medical Centre, Canada
Dr. Ariel Munitz, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Boris Kotchoubey, Institute for Medical Psychology, University of Tübingen, Germany

Dr. Cody Meissner, professor of pediatrics, expert on vaccine development, efficacy, and safety. Tufts University School of Medicine, USA
Dr. David Katz, physician and president, True Health Initiative, and founder of the Yale University Prevention Research Center, USA

Dr. David Livermore, microbiologist, infectious disease epidemiologist and professor, University of East Anglia, England

Dr. Eitan Friedman, professor of medicine, Tel-Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Ellen Townsend, professor of psychology, head of the Self-Harm Research Group, University of Nottingham, England

Dr. Eyal Shahar, physician, epidemiologist and professor (emeritus) of public health, University of Arizona, USA
Dr. Florian Limbourg, physician and hypertension researcher, professor at Hannover Medical School, Germany

Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland
Dr. Gerhard Krönke, physician and professor of translational immunology, University of Erlangen-Nuremberg, Germany

Dr. Gesine Weckmann, professor of health education and prevention, Europäische Fachhochschule, Rostock, Germany

Dr. Günter Kampf, associate professor, Institute for Hygiene and Environmental Medicine, Greifswald University, Germany

Dr. Helen Colhoun, professor of medical informatics and epidemiology, and public health physician, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Dr. Jonas Ludvigsson, pediatrician, epidemiologist and professor at Karolinska Institute and senior physician at Örebro University Hospital, Sweden
Dr. Karol Sikora, physician, oncologist, and professor of medicine at the University of Buckingham, England

Dr. Laura Lazzeroni, professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences and of biomedical data science, Stanford University Medical School, USA
Dr. Lisa White, professor of modelling and epidemiology, Oxford University, England

Dr. Mario Recker, malaria researcher and associate professor, University of Exeter, England
Dr. Matthew Ratcliffe, professor of philosophy, specializing in philosophy of mental health, University of York, England

Dr. Matthew Strauss, critical care physician and assistant professor of medicine, Queen’s University, Canada
Dr. Michael Jackson, research fellow, School of Biological Sciences, University of Canterbury, New Zealand
Dr. Michael Levitt, biophysicist and professor of structural biology, Stanford University, USA.
Recipient of the 2013 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.

Dr. Mike Hulme, professor of human geography, University of Cambridge, England

Dr. Motti Gerlic, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Partha P. Majumder, professor and founder of the National Institute of Biomedical Genomics, Kalyani, India

Dr. Paul McKeigue, physician, disease modeler and professor of epidemiology and public health, University of Edinburgh, Scotland
Dr. Rajiv Bhatia, physician, epidemiologist and public policy expert at the Veterans Administration, USA

Dr. Rodney Sturdivant, infectious disease scientist and associate professor of biostatistics, Baylor University, USA
Dr. Salmaan Keshavjee, professor of Global Health and Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School, USA
Dr. Simon Thornley, epidemiologist and biostatistician, University of Auckland, New Zealand
Dr. Simon Wood, biostatistician and professor, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Dr. Stephen Bremner,professor of medical statistics, University of Sussex, England

Dr. Sylvia Fogel, autism provider and psychiatrist at Massachusetts General Hospital and instructor at Harvard Medical School, USA

Tom Nicholson, Associate in Research, Duke Center for International Development, Sanford School of Public Policy, Duke University, USA
Dr. Udi Qimron, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Ulrike Kämmerer, professor and expert in virology, immunology and cell biology, University of Würzburg, Germany

Dr. Uri Gavish, biomedical consultant, Israel

Dr. Yaz Gulnur Muradoglu, professor of finance, director of the Behavioural Finance Working Group, Queen Mary University of London, England

Great Barrington Declaration and Petition
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,553
3,534
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟240,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
What gets tiresome is that you keep making the point so that the rebuttal needs to take place, Dot.

Have you ever actually read about the testing and trials on the vaccine? I'm willing to bet my kidney you haven't. You heard it somewhere by somebody on some website or on Newsmax, something....

Do you really, seriously, honestly think this vaccine was just invented by some nobody in a lab, someone latched onto it, threw it at their bosses, and the governments of the world just grabbed it willy-nilly and threw it at us all? Seriously? You have a college degree, Dot, come on. Seriously?

A Timeline of COVID-19 Vaccine Development | BioSpace

You are comparing apples to oranges in many ways. mRNA vaccines are not like traditional vaccines where you take a neutered version of a disease and stick it into someone's arm. This technology is actually in many ways safer and the part you don't seem to realize is that it's excretable. It doesn't stay in your system forever. In addition, you should be just as outraged by the lies and nonsense spouted by anti-vaxxers as you are the 'evil government' in that these folks lie and lie through their teeth about how the vaccine "penetrates your DNA and alters it, mutating humanity." What rubbish. The same doofus folks who took biology in high school and thought DNA and RNA are the same thing now run websites to "inform" us.
I've actually read trials and abstracts of studies on the coronavirus/covid-19, and have listened to dozens, if not more, doctors and scientists since last spring. Yes. I know mRNA vaccines aren't like traditional vaccines. That's the problem, imo. But even with all of that said, for me, nothing beats holy elders telling us not to take the vaccine. It's not necessary and will cause us harm in the near future (we still don't know the long-term effects). If I have time, I can post the info. But then, people will believe what they want, even if these elders warn against it.

Do you really, seriously, honestly think this vaccine was just invented by some nobody in a lab, someone latched onto it, threw it at their bosses, and the governments of the world just grabbed it willy-nilly and threw it at us all? Seriously? You have a college degree, Dot, come on. Seriously? -- No, I don't think that at all. Most viruses are made in labs. The problem with this one is that it was hidden at the Wuhan lab. Of course, I have little doubt our scientists and certain public health groups were involved because Fauci's own emails show his NIH was funding gain of function research at that very lab with a Chinese female scientist, and a couple of others, including an American one. What's scary is that they have created thousands of other viruses in their labs that are much more deadly and dangerous than covid. Let's hope they don't leak out and kill those who were studying them and spread across the globe like this one did.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: anna ~ grace
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,553
3,534
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟240,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
You trust PolitiFact?

Herd immunity has been left out of the equation during this whole pandemic mess. It used to be regarded highly for the past couple hundred years. Now, it's decided herd immunity can't happen. I've heard several times that most people have already contracted covid.

And yes, lockdowns were a horrible experiment, causing worse poverty, starvation, and loss of jobs and livelihoods. And what did they do during the lockdowns? Did they work to create better ventilation in public buildings, such as hospitals, nursing homes, schools, offices, etc.? No. Did they have any strategy or plan other than not filling up the hospitals? At least China build specific covid hospitals for their citizens. We can't even fix one of our bridges or main roads. :doh:
 
  • Informative
Reactions: anna ~ grace
Upvote 0

Dorothea

One of God's handmaidens
Jul 10, 2007
21,553
3,534
Colorado Springs, Colorado
✟240,539.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
21,596
12,124
58
Sydney, Straya
✟1,181,173.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Strange argument. It almost sounds like your objection to the vaccine isn't the vaccine, but you dislike someone telling you that you should get the vaccine? Pressure from governments wasn't in play back in the Depression/WWII era, so people got the vaccines. Now that government is pressuring us, we shouldn't take the vaccine? Very odd. It's like a kid knowing broccoli is good for him, but because mom is demanding he eat it, he feeds it to the dog out of spite.
Gurney, please stop with the strawman arguments. You do not know how we think and what you think you understand is down right insulting.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.