The Warped World of Incel Extremists

Tom 1 · Sep 6, 2021

spiritfilledjm said:
the outcasts of society

Are they outcasts? Only a small number of people look like Hollywood stars, does that mean the rest of us should feel embittered about it? To think of incels as outcasts suggests there is some external reason for their general anger about not having women chasing after them. The real problem is internal.

RDKirk · Sep 6, 2021

Tom 1 said:
Are they outcasts? Only a small number of people look like Hollywood stars, does that mean the rest of us should feel embittered about it? To think of incels as outcasts suggests there is some external reason for their general anger about not having women chasing after them. The real problem is internal.

They are hermits, not outcasts.

Will Joseph · Sep 6, 2021

I'm a celibate virgin who has stopped caring about sex. Sex is just a lot of disease, broken condoms, transwomen, prostitutes, sinners, and more. I don't know why some extremists give it more value than it has: those extremists might be highly uneducated. To be honest, I had to learn about the dangers of sex myself because my dad left when I was a kid. My mom didn't seem to teach me about the dangers and my school only talked about the diseases for one day (or around one hour.)

I've read of people who can't even walk or sit without pain because of herpes.

I would rather adopt a kid or facilitate artificial insemination instead of have sex, honestly.

bèlla · Sep 6, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
I write this under the influence of a spirit.

Evil is not like darkness, but like unlight. It has a form and substance and can be interacted with and known directly.

I believe you’re under the influence of something.

All the above. I've exhausted most of the clinical research. I've always had relationship, unavoidably, with people so evil as to foil human comprehension - the average person being in contact with these people are charmed and do not remember the evil done. Evil that causes the plants to wilt and not to grow.

I suspect you’ve forgotten your comments on another thread and that I was the person you engaged with. I have difficulty reconciling how someone possessing the prowess you suggest was unable to recognize evil staring them in the eye. Or use said prowess to extricate themselves to prevent further harm. Which suggests a vivid imagination or psychosis.

TheWhat? · Sep 6, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
No, 'Jews,' as in Rabbinical Judaism, were generally polygamous until the 11th century and the practice didn't die off until probably the 14th century.

Jews will disagree with this. The structure of Jewish tradition doesn't support polygamy. A young boy becomes a man at 13. He learns a trade, he and his wife are betrothed at a relatively young age. None of this can be an expectation of a Jew if polygamy were the expectation, because reality is that the natural distribution of the sexes is very close to 50/50.

RDKirk · Sep 6, 2021

TheWhat? said:
Jews will disagree with this. The structure of Jewish tradition doesn't support polygamy. A young boy becomes a man at 13. He learns a trade, he and his wife are betrothed at a relatively young age. None of this can be an expectation of a Jew if polygamy were the expectation, because reality is that the natural distribution of the sexes is very close to 50/50.

I suspect tradition varied, probably with personal wealth. It does seem clear that by the 1st century, monogamy appears to have become the social norm if not strictly the word of law. Jews had noted by the 1st century how the scripture seemed to dwell on the family problems of the polygamous man.

And I'm not sure it hadn't always been the case that persons of average wealth had only one wife.

TheWhat? · Sep 6, 2021

RDKirk said:
I suspect tradition varied, probably with personal wealth. It does seem clear that by the 1st century, monogamy appears to have become the social norm if not strictly the word of law. Jews had noted by the 1st century how the scripture seemed to dwell on the family problems of the polygamous man.

And I'm not sure it hadn't always been the case that persons of average wealth had only one wife.

Well, the world has seen quite a lot of warfare. The real distribution between the sexes is obviously not constant. It makes sense that polygamy wasn't strictly outlawed, although hoarding wives was forbidden to the king, showing that the Hebrews were aware of these dynamics as early as the days that the law was written. Jewish tradition is much more domesticated in the interest of building a sustainable society, in a way that is compliant with the Torah, than it is geared for warfare, which I'm certain Jews would see as being more of the ways of the gentiles than of the Jews, at least in those dark, ancient days of conquest.

bèlla · Sep 6, 2021

Will Joseph said:
Sex is just a lot of disease, broken condoms, transwomen, prostitutes, sinners, and more.

Sex was created by God. Human failings don’t diminish its beauty. Nor is everyone afflicted with STD’s, failed contraception, or keeping company with transpeople or prostitutes.

Where did you get that from?

Jamdoc · Sep 6, 2021

bèlla said:
Sex was created by God. Human failings don’t diminish its beauty. Nor is everyone afflicted with STD’s, failed contraception, or keeping company with transpeople or prostitutes.

Where did you get that from?

This is what I'm talking about how one bad coping mechanism is to make it all sour grapes, the MGTOW perspective, "I can't get a woman/sex, so woman/sex is not worth it"

Lain Iwakura · Sep 6, 2021

bèlla said:
I believe you’re under the influence of something.
I suspect you’ve forgotten your comments on another thread and that I was the person you engaged with. I have difficulty reconciling how someone possessing the prowess you suggest was unable to recognize evil staring them in the eye. Or use said prowess to extricate themselves to prevent further harm. Which suggests a vivid imagination or psychosis.

No, I haven't forgotten, but there is no contradiction in what I've said - parts of a complex reality - and you've added on powers to me that I never claimed to possess. All to what, ignore my points and call me psychotic. Perhaps the entirety of the pre-modern world would be considered psychotic by you, for my basic propositions are easily verified from a sufficiently educated classicist.

Lain Iwakura · Sep 6, 2021

Nevertheless, it's interesting how controversial basic christian charity is on this forum - from those who are passive about withholding charity from undesirables to those who are actively arguing for the physical and sexual abuse/mutilation of the masses of men - sourced from a complete lack of faith in the human and in humanity - a truly demonic doctrine. As always, some people must not attain to the status of human dignity, for some psychopathic men would require as many others as possible to be subjugated and tortured for their over-inflated egos. And what can be said of how men receive consideration, when the it is apparently commonly accepted that they deserve no consideration as human - as shown by certain commentators in this thread - needless to say in practice that would not be limited to males themselves.

bèlla · Sep 6, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Perhaps the entirety of the pre-modern world would be considered psychotic by you, for my basic propositions are easily verified from a sufficiently educated classicist.

Oh no. I don't believe that. There's troubled souls for sure. But everyone isn't.

Lain Iwakura · Sep 6, 2021

RDKirk said:
Those appear to be conflicting statements.

If there are no resources available for the voiceless, then the resources must be available for those with voice.

In that case, society designed to make sure voice is necessary to survive, and those with voice will win, rather than being beaten to the ground.

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease."

But they aren't. Passages that seem contradictory are usually resolvable.

The squeaky wheel does not get the grease if the wheel itself is not valued. Some have no mouth, but must scream. And the screams of many are heard only by God, if indeed God cares. What areas of life isn't there solid examples of this. Every male victim of sexual abuse knows that his corpse is more valuable than his life in the eyes of the institutions he survives in. Scream all you want and then you are a monster for it and only worth crushing.

Lain Iwakura · Sep 6, 2021

bèlla said:
Oh no. I don't believe that. There's troubled souls for sure. But everyone isn't.

Your response let's me know that you don't understand what I'm saying - that you haven't managed to parse my meaning. Sadly.

Will Joseph · Sep 6, 2021

bèlla said:
Sex was created by God. Human failings don’t diminish its beauty. Nor is everyone afflicted with STD’s, failed contraception, or keeping company with transpeople or prostitutes.

Where did you get that from?

Can you discern a transwoman from a cis woman? Do you know that a lot of transwomen aim to "pass" as cis women, or to make themselves seem like they are cis wkmen to the extent where you can not tell if they're trans?

Dis you know that some people don't know if thwy are infected with an STI? Some medical exams can't even accurately detect some STIs.

I've read of people who can't wven walk or sit because of herpes. I've read of people who've died within about a year of being diagnosed with an STI.

I pray to the Lord that I don't get a spouse that cheats on me and acquires an STI without my knowing. I'm honestly a bit relieved that I'm single. I feel like I'm more closer to the Lord, this way.

RDKirk · Sep 6, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
But they aren't. Passages that seem contradictory are usually resolvable.

The squeaky wheel does not get the grease if the wheel itself is not valued. Some have no mouth, but must scream. And the screams of many are heard only by God, if indeed God cares. What areas of life isn't there solid examples of this. Every male victim of sexual abuse knows that his corpse is more valuable than his life in the eyes of the institutions he survives in. Scream all you want and then you are a monster for it and only worth crushing.

As an old black man, I could say that in spades. During my childhood, any white man could have murdered me, or raped my mother, or lynched my father, and face no consequences whatsoever. For hundreds of years, the screams of black people in America were heard only by God. So you're not the Lone Ranger.

But you can't say that, hearing those screams, God never takes action.

RDKirk · Sep 6, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Your response let's me know that you don't understand what I'm saying - that you haven't managed to parse my meaning. Sadly.

I've learned in my life that when people don't understand what I'm saying, then I must rephrase...unless I don't care whether they understand it. In that case, why should I have said it in the first place?

bèlla · Sep 7, 2021

Will Joseph said:
Can you discern a transwoman from a cis woman? Do you know that a lot of transwomen aim to "pass" as cis women, or to make themselves seem like they are cis wkmen to the extent where you can not tell if they're trans?

A guy I dated in my teens had a brother who was trans. I’m probably more conversant on the subject than most. Thirty years ago this wasn’t news. I learned a lot about gay culture. He was the one who taught me how to spot a bisexual man so I wouldn’t be duped. There’s more men in the closet than trans folks.

With that out of the way, why is this a concern for you? Have you imagined the church being overrun by transpeople? Do you fear you’ll be manipulated into marrying one? I’d hope not.

Dis you know that some people don't know if thwy are infected with an STI? Some medical exams can't even accurately detect some STIs.

You seem inordinately fixated on STDs too. Your sexual knowledge is sorely lacking. You need to educate yourself on the subject. Stop relying on hearsay and scare tactics. You should be able to address the topic intelligently at this point.

I pray to the Lord that I don't get a spouse that cheats on me and acquires an STI without my knowing. I'm honestly a bit relieved that I'm single. I feel like I'm more closer to the Lord, this way.

As a man nearing thirty your conversation on relationships should be more mature. You’ve imagined unreasonable scenarios about lovemaking and topics unrelated to heterosexuals.

Most men and women your age don’t think like that. Nor would they say this. Your phobias will leave you in the cold. I suggest you put them away and pursue the subject rationally. Transpeople and STDs aren’t your problem.

Will Joseph · Sep 7, 2021

bèlla said:
A guy I dated in my teens had a brother who was trans. I’m probably more conversant on the subject than most. Thirty years ago this wasn’t news. I learned a lot about gay culture. He was the one who taught me how to spot a bisexual man so I wouldn’t be duped. There’s more men in the closet than trans folks.

With that out of the way, why is this a concern for you? Have you imagined the church being overrun by transpeople? Do you fear you’ll be manipulated into marrying one? I’d hope not.

You seem inordinately fixated on STDs too. Your sexual knowledge is sorely lacking. You need to educate yourself on the subject. Stop relying on hearsay and scare tactics. You should be able to address the topic intelligently at this point.

As a man nearing thirty your conversation on relationships should be more mature. You’ve imagined unreasonable scenarios about lovemaking and topics unrelated to heterosexuals.

Most men and women your age don’t think like that. Nor would they say this. Your phobias will leave you in the cold. I suggest you put them away and pursue the subject rationally. Transpeople and STDs aren’t your problem.

adultery is a serious issue. the bible states that adultery should be punished with death.

bèlla · Sep 7, 2021

Will Joseph said:
adultery is a serious issue. the bible states that adultery should be punished with death.

Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble. —Matthew 6:34

You've put the cart before the horse. You need to find a suitor who desires you and agrees to be your wife first. Then you have to marry. Until you satisfy that criteria, adultery isn't a concern. You aren't at risk for anything.

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