1 John 2:2 KJV

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

"1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Is that universalism, as in every human will be saved?

Is salvation accomplished by faith plus works, or does God work in believers to bring His work to completion?

Is it dead faith plus works, or living faith that produces works? Who gives us faith?

Guojing · Sep 6, 2021

Old Lady said:
"1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Is that universalism, as in every human will be saved?

Is salvation accomplished by faith plus works, or does God work in believers to bring His work to completion?

Is it dead faith plus works, or living faith that produces works? Who gives us faith?

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him

1 John 3:
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If you are talking salvation doctrine from 1 John, you will have to conclude that faith plus works are required for salvation.

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

Thank you for sharing. This is what I see:

Dead faith has no works. Living faith (given by God) produces works:

Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Guojing · Sep 6, 2021

Old Lady said:
Thank you for sharing. This is what I see:

Dead faith has no works. Living faith (given by God) produces works:

Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

We are still discussing what John is preaching as salvation doctrine in 1 John correct?

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

Ephesians 2 NIV
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

Guojing said:
We are still discussing what John is preaching as salvation doctrine in 1 John correct?

Salvation doctrine comes from the Bible. I think we can agree on the starting point.

Guojing · Sep 6, 2021

Old Lady said:
Salvation doctrine comes from the Bible. I think we can agree on the starting point.

Yes, but one must rightly divide the word of truth.

If you take salvation doctrine from Paul's epistles instead, then the conclusion you get is that salvation is by faith alone apart from works (Romans 4:5, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

Guojing said:
Yes, but one must rightly divide the word of truth.

If you take salvation doctrine from Paul's epistles instead, then the conclusion you get is that salvation is by faith alone apart from works (Romans 4:5, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

Without Christ we can do nothing. It all depends on God ---ALL --- because

Ephesians 2
1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

But my original question is pertaining to the world; who is saved? Is all the world saved?

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

Guojing said:
Yes, but one must rightly divide the word of truth.

I agree. Paul doesn't contradict James.

Dave L · Sep 6, 2021

Old Lady said:
"1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Is that universalism, as in every human will be saved?

Is salvation accomplished by faith plus works, or does God work in believers to bring His work to completion?

Is it dead faith plus works, or living faith that produces works? Who gives us faith?

If you were a first-century Jew, "the whole world" would include Gentiles in salvation, and not just Jews as under the OT.

Guojing · Sep 6, 2021

Old Lady said:
I agree. Paul doesn't contradict James.

Actually if you read Acts 21:18-25, Paul and James have very different beliefs on the role of the Law for believers.

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

Guojing said:
Actually if you read Acts 21:18-25, Paul and James have very different beliefs on the role of the Law for believers.

Are you talking about the Old Covenant Laws? Can you give me the verses in James that you think contradict Ephesians and other books in the N. T.?

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

Romans 3:1-30 and
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

rocknanchor · Sep 6, 2021

Old Lady said:
Can you give me the verses in James that you think contradict Ephesians and other books in the N. T.?

Right! I pray Guojing hasn’t built too heavily on ‘rightly divided’ passages without letting other Biblical divisions confirm them. For if all scripture is ‘inspired by God’, then there shouldn’t be too many of those passages needing God’s revealing the rest of the matter, whatever that might be.

And if you are minded in anything differently, even this God will reveal to you. (Php 3:15)

Guojing · Sep 6, 2021

Old Lady said:
Are you talking about the Old Covenant Laws? Can you give me the verses in James that you think contradict Ephesians and other books in the N. T.?

The book of James was written sometime in Acts 8, James never heard of Paul before he wrote that.

Before the events in Acts 21, Galatians was already written, and Paul made this claim in Galatians 5:2

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

That is a very clear statement by Paul regarding physical circumcision, would you agree?

So when you read Acts 21:18-25

8 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.

You can understand where James was coming from?

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

Dave L said:
If you were a first-century Jew, "the whole world" would include Gentiles in salvation, and not just Jews as under the OT.

Some Jews and some Gentiles, right?

Guojing · Sep 6, 2021

Dave L said:
If you were a first-century Jew, "the whole world" would include Gentiles in salvation, and not just Jews as under the OT.

Well, Zacharias in Luke 1 certainly was not thinking about gentiles when he was talking about Christ first coming

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

Rescued One · Sep 6, 2021

Guojing said:
The book of James was written sometime in Acts 8, James never heard of Paul before he wrote that.

Before the events in Acts 21, Galatians was already written, and Paul made this claim in Galatians 5:2

2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

That is a very clear statement by Paul regarding physical circumcision, would you agree?

Paul was sent to the Gentiles.

Abraham was justified before he was circumcised.

Romans 4
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Do you believe this?

I will get to the rest of your post in a few minutes.

Dave L · Sep 6, 2021

Old Lady said:
Some Jews and some Gentiles, right?

Israel was always a mix of circumcised gentiles and "Jews" in the biblical sense.

Guojing · Sep 6, 2021

Old Lady said:
Paul was sent to the Gentiles.

Abraham was justified before he was circumcised.

Romans 4
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

Do you believe this?

I will get to the rest of your post in a few minutes.

Yes of course I believe this, I take my salvation doctrine from Paul's letters from Romans to Philemon, since I am a gentile.

1 John 2:2 KJV

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Continue Well 2 John 9

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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