Israel is planning to administer FOURTH Covid shot

Pommer said:

This used to be a “conservative value”, what happened to that?

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American "Conservatism" has never been a singular philosophy, but an amalgamation of different and primarily reactionary political/ideological blocs. The dominant bloc has changed. Remember orange man?

Lain Iwakura said:

If you've worked for government, you might understand that hiring the incompetent is a great way to divert liability and be corrupt yourself. And corrupt bureaucrats always have their agendas - not requiring some grand conspiracy. And what grand conspiracy there is is not at the level of mere humans.

That being said, I don't think both assumption necessarily coexist at the same time, and instead it's a confounding of masses.

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I have worked in government. In fact, I have other friends who work in other branches of the govt. I know many people who work all over. I know people who work in the private sector is.
The people who talk poorly about government employees are just frustrated by their experiences with customer services. It's been my experience and I'd wager that most news reports would also bear out the the largest improprieties are carried out by political appointments and not Gerald in frontline.

It's ABSURD to think government has the corner on incompetence.

Does every hypothesis you have about people start with them being incompetent, evil or in some way compromised?

Lain Iwakura said:

Expert status is a increasingly value determination.

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It shouldn't be.... If I even understand you.

rambot said:

I have worked in government. In fact, I have other friends who work in other branches of the govt. I know many people who work all over. I know people who work in the private sector is.
The people who talk poorly about government employees are just frustrated by their experiences with customer services. It's been my experience and I'd wager that most news reports would also bear out the the largest improprieties are carried out by political appointments and not Gerald in frontline.

It's ABSURD to think government has the corner on incompetence.

Does every hypothesis you have about people start with them being incompetent, evil or in some way compromised?

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I do not think government has a corner on incompetence. Government is at it's most incompetent when it works with incompetent private contractors. I saw that first-hand in a $10mil database contract. But the previous database had a highly competent contractor at the lead and the project executed by the government competently - correcting a situation where critical infrastructure was neglected for decades. But I am aware that the maintenance team is competent enough to function with a barely functional product purchased by the incompetent implementation team. There is no way to cleanly slice it and usually both excellence and failure is emergent entirely from the specific people involved.

Nor do I have many hypothesis about people being incompetent, evil, or compromised - and although I do think everyone is compromise-able, it is unusual for someone to be able to do what it is necessary to exploit it. I have no concept of any human grand conspiracy in the pandemic, response, or vaccination efforts. I for one do not consider myself, a government employee, to be incompetent, evil, or in some way compromised - nor do I consider the majority of my current and former coworkers to be incompetent, evil, or in some way compromised. Only one was ever evil, and only in that inconvenient way in which all the days around every holiday was always taken off, so that no one else could.

However, one of the government organizations I was working with did have a major bust involving a (department internal) cocaine ring and sex trafficking for snow plow contracts. Heck, I was in a meeting with the fire safety guy from central and he was clearly on cocaine during the meeting. Things happen.

Now, why would you assume that I hold the extreme form of ever proposition?

rambot said:

It shouldn't be.... If I even understand you.

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It inherently must be. An experts, having been judged as having more valuable insight into a specified topic, must inherently be the result of a value judgement, in that his insight is considered valuable. Without a value judgement, there is nothing distinguishing greater or lesser insights or perceived insights. You don't get a fact without there first being a phenomenon.

Taodeching said:

If those with compassion really wanted to get America back to work they would stop being so darn selfish, so darn into conspiracy theories at every turn and start trusting things out side themselves. The ones you speak of in your last sentence are the ones truly destroying America, instead of working to get a smaller government most have went off the deep end and now are hurting the very country they say they love. If they really were truly compassionate they would be proactive and willingly get the vaccine so that no mandates would even have to surface.but instead they want to appear the hero and act all macho after something like mandates happen.

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Only according to YOUR science. Apparently you think tyranny is compassion.

Tanj said:

Remind me which governor is in charge of Israel again.

You think it's possible to not drag your country into a conversation about another country, just this once?

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AAAahahaha! So you light into me, since you dislike my political views, when I'm not the one who went off track. Why don't you look back and see who started this tangent? For a hint, look at #14 and #8.

Pommer said:

I do.
I think that the people who inhabit our halls of power are good, decent, hard working folk who are attempting to do their best.
My job, in this is to simply trust them to do an even better job than I know I would do during trying times like these.

Being wary of the Government is a very American thing.
But there’s a time when we just need to trust one another more, (especially when it’s not easy).

This used to be a “conservative value”, what happened to that?

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We conservatives have been taught very well by the liberals over the last 60 or 70 years, to not only distrust but to disrespect those in authority, and now, by example, to rebel against those in authority. Further, by the rare occasion that the mainstream media has slipped up and exposed liberalism's festering wound, we SEE that there is every reason to not trust the Government —no, that doesn't go far enough— we know reason not to trust the Government with every contradictory statement, every excuse they make in public, and every unconstitutional and liberty-restricting policy and agenda they have declared as plainly theirs.

The American Dream is not forced domestic tranquility and equality. It is the liberty to pursue one's aspirations without trespass against others.

anna ~ grace said:

If the vaccines do not seem to be accomplishing either thing in Israel

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Vaccines in Israel are reducing the severity of covid in people who are vaccinated. There's a reason unvaccinated people are ~5x to end up hospitalized with the disease.

I'm amused that there's a thread with a bunch of anti-vaxx nonsense posts thinking that wanting to improve those numbers using a booster for the vaccine somehow means that vaccines are bad or the people who want to reduce hospitalizations from the disease even more are corrupt.

Pommer said:

It’s destined for tropehood!
“But Israel…”

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It used to be Sweden, until the numbers there started disagreeing with the narrative. It'll be something else next month, whatever it takes to rationalize the real reason some are terrified of getting vaccinated.

JustSomeBloke said:

From the 'Hold on! This used to be a conspiracy theory!' files:

Israel is planning to administer FOURTH Covid shot which could be adjusted to fight new variants as country battles wave of infections despite hugely successful vaccine roll-out

Israel is set to begin preparations to administer fourth doses of the coronavirus vaccines as the country deals with soaring cases despite its trail-blazing roll-out of jabs.

The country's national coronavirus czar Salman Zarka said the country needs to prepare for a fourth injection, which could be modified to better protect against new variants of the virus.

'Given that that the virus is here and will continue to be here, we also need to prepare for a fourth injection,' he told Kan public radio.

'This is our life from now on, in waves.'

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Someone in my 55+ community Facebook group was vaccinated and got a mild breakthrough infection. Her ears were still stopped up a month after the infection. She was not hospitalized.

The cost of a COVID hospitalization is about $40,000.
Costs for a Hospital Stay for COVID-19 | FAIR Health

The U.S. is supposed to have booster shots ready 8 months after a person’s second vaccination.

Florida leads the nation in COVID deaths. Our governor does not like Fauci.

dqhall said:

Someone in my 55+ community Facebook group was vaccinated and got a mild breakthrough infection. Her ears were still stopped up a month after the infection. She was not hospitalized. The cost of a COVID hospitalization is about $40,000.

The U.S. is supposed to have booster shots ready 8 months after a person’s second vaccination.

Florida leads the nation in COVID deaths. Our governor does not like Fauci.

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Sounds awful! Yet somehow, misleading.

Florida is #16 in deaths per capita, not #1, and what's more, that, in spite of the fact that there is no mask mandate, no vaccine mandate, and that Florida has the highest per capita #'s of vulnerable senior citizens. What does not liking Fauci have to do with anything?

U.S. COVID-19 death rate by state | Statista

Mark Quayle said:

Where does 20% come from? What are you trying to say here? Death rate per what? Survival rate per infection is estimated between 97% and 99.75%. Survival rate per capita in the USA is therefore MUCH LESS.

Sure 20% would be catastrophic, but why get teary-eyed about something that is not happening, or pretend we should build policy on falsehood.

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If 3% of American conservatives (statistically the overwhelming majority of antivaxxers and anti-maskers) died that could swing some elections.

So why are Democrats begging you to get vaccinated if they have some evil plot at mind. You'd think they'd be singing "Another one bites the dust."

Either their motives are altruistic or they're stupid.

I think it's the former.

Mark Quayle said:

Sounds awful! Yet somehow, misleading.

Florida is #16 in deaths per capita, not #1, and what's more, that, in spite of the fact that there is no mask mandate, no vaccine mandate, and that Florida has the highest per capita #'s of vulnerable senior citizens. What does not liking Fauci have to do with anything?

U.S. COVID-19 death rate by state | Statista

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The seniors are all vaccinated.

Lain Iwakura said:

Now, why would you assume that I hold the extreme form of ever proposition?

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Because the lack of specificity in this comment that I replied to "If you've worked for government, you might understand that hiring the incompetent is a great way to divert liability and be corrupt yourself."
Got my dander up. Too many people poop on government workers for no good reason and that comment just looked like another example.
Thank you for the further details and clarity on your statement.

Lain Iwakura said:

It inherently must be. An experts, having been judged as having more valuable insight into a specified topic, must inherently be the result of a value judgement, in that his insight is considered valuable. Without a value judgement, there is nothing distinguishing greater or lesser insights or perceived insights. You don't get a fact without there first being a phenomenon.

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still not 100% sure I'm on your track but maybe I am....
We don't just willy nilly follow experts. We follow experts who have a good track record. Sometimes they are wrong based on their available data and that shows a lack of capacity or at least that their own judgement may not be best.

Obviously that is VERY different than changing an opinion based on new research and information.

Unfortunately that sentence is where a certain segment of Western culture falls apart. Science changes and, depending on the field of study, can actually change very rapidly. Science's understanding of something new changes really quick as more information is discovered. Sadly, for some people the inconsistency that results in policy changes from new and changing information causes some to lose trust in the establishment. In fact the opposite should happen.
The idea of "changing your mind", EVEN IF IT'S BASED ON NEW AND BETTER INFORMATION, has shown to be REALLY HARD for some people to grasp

Fantine said:

If 3% of American conservatives (statistically the overwhelming majority of antivaxxers and anti-maskers) died that could swing some elections.

So why are Democrats begging you to get vaccinated if they have some evil plot at mind. You'd think they'd be singing "Another one bites the dust."

Either their motives are altruistic or they're stupid.

I think it's the former.

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They are singing "Another one bites the dust." at every opportunity. Look at the headlines for the last two years! Do you think they were altruistic about it when Trump got Covid?

Your equation is based on a false premise, fed to you by the supposed altruistic 'experts' and politicians and press. Like I said, I don't doubt YOU mean well; but you are deceived.

FWIW my best friend (an atheist) watches only ABC news daily, and also believes the numbers you do, hates Trump, hates rich people, hates talk radio —the whole works; but otherwise he is at heart rather conservative. (Refuses to wear a helmet on his Harley, never activistic, hates taxes, believes what he earns and owns is his, thinks he might have to die if the laws say he has to give up his weapons, thinks Gov is getting out of hand, hates Congress, refuses to stop working and live off Gov though his body is pretty bad off and he could get disability if he wanted to, and this should please you —he doesn't vote).

He refuses the vaccine because he refuses to put something into his body he isn't altogether sure about. But he wears a mask around his very elderly mother. Funny how many of these people I run into, who think of themselves as liberals, but when I ask them about it they sound like conservatives, as far as their own situation. The assumptions of most seems to be that the Rich have enough money/assets to support the rest of us for the remainder of their lives, and don't deserve what they have, as it was obtained "on the backs of the poor working class." They swallow the propaganda.

Mark Quayle said:

Sounds awful! Yet somehow, misleading.

Florida is #16 in deaths per capita, not #1, and what's more, that, in spite of the fact that there is no mask mandate, no vaccine mandate, and that Florida has the highest per capita #'s of vulnerable senior citizens. What does not liking Fauci have to do with anything?

U.S. COVID-19 death rate by state | Statista

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Florida is #1 in total recent deaths. Nearly 25% of deaths were happening in Florida. Why are you so deceived?

dqhall said:

Florida is #1 in total recent deaths. Nearly 25% of deaths were happening in Florida. Why are you so deceived?

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link?

Mark Quayle said:

link?

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Why do you deceive the people?

The highest per capita COVID deaths are in Florida:
States ranked by COVID-19 death rates: Sept. 3