Timtofly
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- Jun 29, 2020
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If the two olive trees were individuals why not the two candlesticks? John is obviously a witness, he wrote it all down while it was happening. But most do not see John as they see Elijah, who has returned, because going back in time from the present seems too complicated for God, or at least too complicated for most humans today, because they just ignore it like sci-fi.Good, I was going to go into Zechariah 4 if I didn't see it mentioned. I'm of the mind that the bible explains its own symbols if they are symbols somewhere and Zechariah identifies the two olive trees.
I had not thought of the fact that there are 2 pairs though 2 olive trees being 1 witness and 2 candlesticks being the other witnesses. That's quite a catch
Now as to identifying the 2 in each group.
Zechariah 4:14
Now, Elijah is a guarantee, as that's Malachi that names him outright, and the other one is usually either Moses or Enoch are the most common theories. and I've seen people say Moses representing the law, and Elijah representing the prophets, and while that's true....
it's actually even simpler than that.
Matthew 17:1-3
They are the prophets who stood next to the Lord of the whole earth.
Now.. the 2 churches.
This is more speculation but my theory is that only 2 of the churches that Jesus instructed John to write to in Revelation 1-3 were not rebuked by Jesus, they were only encouraged. Smyrna, and Philadelphia.
Smyrna is the church that goes through tribulation and are made martyrs. Philadelphia is the faithful church. Neither are Rebuked, both are offered encouragement to just stay the course.
Now I don't hold to the church ages theory for the letters to the churches, or that it was ONLY to specific 1st century churches historically.
I hold that it is more or less types of churches, maybe even specifically in the last days churches, because Jesus threatens the Church of Thyatira with Great Tribulation. That is an empty threat unless this has end times meaning.
So a Church that is persecuted and martyred, and a Church that does not stray from the true gospel and keeps an open door (when others might be shutting down).
Again, this part is speculation unless someone has a better theory.
Can God not bring John forward to be a witness and then send him back to deliver the message? Why is Elijah said to come and go without issue? Is moving back in time more complicated than moving forward in time to God? How can these 4 be a witness of the whole creation, meaning all time, if they are humans born at different times on earth? That part there is the hardest to accept.
It makes sense that Enoch was there for most of time, but Moses was not born until later, but was given the charge to witness and record from even before the time Enoch was born. If Moses bore witness to the beginning of creation, and wrote it down, why cannot John, the author of Revelation, bare witness to the end of creation?
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