The New Covenant Sabbath is still Friday/Saturday

BobRyan · Sep 4, 2021

dqhall said:
While in Jerusalem Jesus healed a paralytic during the Sabbath.

Which was in full and complete harmony with scripture. It was approved in scripture to do well on the Sabbath. To relieve suffering on Sabbath was approved by the OT text.

Jesus even challenges his enemies in John 8:46 "Which of you convicts me of sin?" -- His point was - he did not sin - and they knew it.

Heb 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin."

Jesus was sinless.
"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- even in the NT

Jesus points out that the Law allows acts of Mercy so doing acts of Mercy even on Sabbath was allowed under the Law

Deut 22:“You shall not see your countryman’s ox or his sheep straying away, and avoid them; you shall certainly bring them back to your countryman. 2 And if your countryman is not near you, or if you do not know him, then you shall bring it to your house, and it shall remain with you until your countryman looks for it; then you shall restore it to him. 3 You shall also do this with his donkey, and you shall do the same with his garment, and you shall do likewise with any lost property of your countryman, which has been lost by him and you have found. You are not allowed to avoid them. 4 You shall not see your countryman’s donkey or his ox fallen down on the road, and avoid them; you shall certainly help him raise them up."

Luke 14:2 And there in front of Him was a man suffering from edema. 3 And Jesus responded and said to the lawyers and Pharisees, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath, or not?” 4 But they kept silent. And He took hold of him and healed him, and sent him away. 5 And He said to them, “Which one of you will have a son or an ox fall into a well, and will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?” 6 And they could offer no reply to this.

Luke 13:15 But the Lord answered him and said, “You hypocrites, does each of you on the Sabbath not untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it away to water it? 16 And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this restraint on the Sabbath day?”

Jesus speaks to what it is that "SHOULD be done" lawfully -- not "what can be done in rebellion against the Word of God".

LoveGodsWord · Sep 4, 2021

Dave L said:
The TCs were the Old Covenant. Jeremiah says the New Covenant (without any legal Sabbath) replaced it. You need to convert to Judaism and not attempt to return to the Law as a Christian.

According to the scriptures the 10 commandments were not "the old covenant" they were a part of the old covenant *Exodus 34:28 which also included all the laws from God written by Moses called the book of the covenant *Exodus 24:7. Together these collectively made up the old covenant. God's 10 commandments that were the work of God alone that were written by God alone and spoken directly by God to His people *Exodus 32:16; Exodus 20:1-17 was placed inside the "Ark of the Covenant" underneath the mercy seat of God *Exodus 26:34; Deuteronomy 10:2-5; Deuteronomy 31:24-26. In the new covenant (according to new testament scripture) God's 10 commandments have the same role they always have and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. What do you think God's new covenant promise is *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27? According to the scriptures, God covenant is not a covenant of lawlessness (without law). It is a promise of obedience to Gods' law from the heart in all those who have been born again *1 John 3:6-9 through faith to love *Romans 3:31; Romans 13:8-10 and a change in the Priesthood *Hebrews 7:1-25 and all the laws for remission of sins *Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22 which pointed to Jesus as God's true sacrifice for the sins of the world *John 1:29; John 1:36; Hebrews 10:10 and the new role of Jesus as our great high priest ministering on our behalf in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lord pitched and not man based on better promises in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:1-6. There is no scripture anywhere in the bible that says the Sabbath or anyone of God's 10 commandments have been abolished. That is simply not true or biblical.

Take Care

BobRyan · Sep 4, 2021

Dave L said:
There is no legal sabbath in the NT. .

God's Law "is legal". Eph 6:2, Rom 3:31, Rev 14:[12

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the Law"

For all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

BobRyan · Sep 4, 2021

Dave L said:
The TCs were the Old Covenant. Jeremiah says the New Covenant (without any legal Sabbath) replaced it. .

They are Old Covenant and New Covenant.

Under the Old Covenant they continue to condemn all lost mankind as sinners - as guilty. Rom 3:19-20
Under the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 they are written on heart and mind -- Rom 3:31 Heb 8:6-12

LoveGodsWord · Sep 4, 2021

Dave L said:
No Ten Commandments before sinai
““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

As posted earlier (post # 42 linked). The old covenant was made up of the Mosaic book of the covenant *Exodus 20:7 and God's 10 commandments *Exodus 34:28 which collectively made up the old covenant and this covenant was not the same as the covenant made with the fathers because it was a covenant to the seed of Abraham that included much more than the laws given to Abraham. According to the scriptures however this does not mean that God's people did not know God's moral laws (10 commandments) and neither does it mean that God's people did not know God's laws for remission of sins through animal sacrifice if they broke Gods' commandments because it is written in the scriptures "Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws." - Genesis 26:5. The Hebrew word used for "laws" here is H8451 תֹּורָה torah. God's people knew Gods' laws (torah) and practiced them offering up animal sacrifice and burnt offerings for sin and atonement for sin (breaking God's commandments) *Genesis 22:8; Genesis 31:54 all before Mt Sinai. The Mosaic covenant was different to that of God's people before Mt Sinai as the Mosaic covenant was a covenant made by God to the seed of Abraham that also included; the Priesthood (Leviticus 8 to Leviticus 10; Leviticus 21; Numbers 18; etc), the earthly Sanctuary (Exodus 25-31; 35-40 etc) that was a copy of the heavenly (Hebrews 8:2-5), the shadow laws in the Feast days (Leviticus 23 etc) , the Genesis (origin and beginning of the world) and the supplementary moral, ceremonial and civil laws for Israel as a people and nation. What your teaching is not biblical or supported in the scriptures.

Freth · Sep 4, 2021

Dave L said:
The Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant. We now have the New Covenant that Jeremiah said would replace the Old.

God does not judge the people of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant by different standards. Imagine how unfair that would be. God doesn't change and neither does Jesus.

Albion · Sep 4, 2021

BobRyan said:
Not only does D.L. Moody not agree with that statement - neither do the Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate in almost all Christian denominations

All joking aside, I can't figure what you are thinking with that comment or where some disconnect could have occurred.

dqhall · Sep 4, 2021

BobRyan said:
Which was in full and complete harmony with scripture. It was approved in scripture to do well on the Sabbath. To relieve suffering on Sabbath was approved by the OT text.

Jesus even challenges his enemies in John 8:46 "Which of you convicts me of sin?" -- His point was - he did not sin - and they knew it.

Heb 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin."

Jesus was sinless.
"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- even in the NT

Jesus points out that the Law allows acts of Mercy so doing acts of Mercy even on Sabbath was allowed under the Law

Deut 22:“You shall not see your countryman’s ox or his sheep straying away, and avoid them; you shall certainly bring them back to your countryman. 2 And if your countryman is not near you, or if you do not know him, then you shall bring it to your house, and it shall remain with you until your countryman looks for it; then you shall restore it to him. 3 You shall also do this with his donkey, and you shall do the same with his garment, and you shall do likewise with any lost property of your countryman, which has been lost by him and you have found. You are not allowed to avoid them. 4 You shall not see your countryman’s donkey or his ox fallen down on the road, and avoid them; you shall certainly help him raise them up."

Luke 14:2 And there in front of Him was a man suffering from edema. 3 And Jesus responded and said to the lawyers and Pharisees, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath, or not?” 4 But they kept silent. And He took hold of him and healed him, and sent him away. 5 And He said to them, “Which one of you will have a son or an ox fall into a well, and will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?” 6 And they could offer no reply to this.

Luke 13:15 But the Lord answered him and said, “You hypocrites, does each of you on the Sabbath not untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it away to water it? 16 And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this restraint on the Sabbath day?”

Jesus speaks to what it is that "SHOULD be done" lawfully -- not "what can be done in rebellion against the Word of God".

Acts of mercy during Sabbath are allowed by God. The teachers of the law in Jesus’ day judged medical treatments like any other Sabbath violation. In Numbers 15:32-36 they stoned a man for picking up sticks on the seventh day violating the commandment against killing. Faith is greater than the law.

Penalty for Violating the Sabbath (KJV)

15:32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.

35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.

Dave L · Sep 5, 2021

Freth said:
God does not judge the people of the Old Covenant and the New Covenant by different standards. Imagine how unfair that would be. God doesn't change and neither does Jesus.

But you are adding to God's word by trying to import the Sabbath into the New Covenant. It never calls for a Sabbath.

Dave L · Sep 5, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
The Israelites broke the first covenant, not God. What changed in the second covenant is the agreement which is based on better promises not God’s laws. God said:

Jerm 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Jesus knows us when we obey and Jesus says He does not know us who practice lawlessness which is breaking the commandments of God and would of course include the 4th commandment that God told us to Remember and is the holy day of the Lord thy God.

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

I pray this helps. God bless

The most serious part of your doctrine is that you add to God's word, a Sabbath that is not called for in the New Covenant.

Element432 · Sep 5, 2021

1John 2:7 . Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

1 John is for this time

Dave L · Sep 5, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Are you accusing me of adding to God’s Word? Please show me what words I added? I have only quoted scripture.

These are God’s Words:

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Isaiah 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and went to Temple reading scriptures as it was His custom on the Sabbath day Luke 4:16 as our example.

Keeping the Sabbath day holy is a commandment of God and was made for us on this earth and the new earth Isaiah 66:23 so you’re argument is not with me but our Most High as these are His Words, not mine.

God bless

The New Covenant replaced the Old. You are adding a Sabbath to the New Covenant that it does not call for.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 5, 2021

Dave L said:
The most serious part of your doctrine is that you add to God's word, a Sabbath that is not called for in the New Covenant.

The most serious part of your doctrine is that you delete one of God’s handwritten commandments that God wrote in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant. Jer. 31:33

Dave L · Sep 5, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
The most serious part of your doctrine is that you delete one of God’s handwritten commandments that God wrote in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant. Jer. 31:33

No, you add to His word something He brought to an end.

Dave L · Sep 5, 2021

Element432 said:
1John 2:7 . Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

1 John is for this time

Do you know which commandment he speaks of? And when the beginning was that he speaks of? Assuming anything can make a false teacher.

SabbathBlessings · Sep 5, 2021

Dave L said:
The New Covenant replaced the Old. You are adding a Sabbath to the New Covenant that it does not call for.

You are adding to God’s Word by trying to remove the holy day of the Lord thy God when God writes His laws in our hearts in the New Covenant. As stated before the agreement changed, not God’s laws. Which is why we see Sabbath being kept by Jesus throughout His life (read the NT) and the Sabbath still being the law in the NT and Jesus keeping all of the commandments of God telling ius to as well. John 15:10, and the Sabbath continuing forever as a day of worship on the New Earth Isaiah 66:23. As promised by God..

You make it seem like there are two Gods, from the old to the new. God does not change nor does His holy day. There is no scripture in the entire bible telling us to delete the 4th commandment. You break one commandment according to scripture you break them al, so something I would consider praying about.

Dave L · Sep 5, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
You are adding to God’s Word by trying to remove the holy day of the Lord thy God when God writes His laws in our hearts in the New Covenant. As stated before the agreement changed, not God’s laws. Which is why we see Sabbath being kept by Jesus throughout His life (read the NT) and the Sabbath still being the law in the NT and Jesus keeping all of the commandments of God telling ius to as well. John 15:10, and the Sabbath continuing forever as a day of worship on the New Earth Isaiah 66:23. As promised by God..

You make it seem like there are two Gods, from the old to the new. God does not change nor does His holy day. There is no scripture in the entire bible telling us to delete the 4th commandment. You break one commandment according to scripture you break them al, so something I would consider praying about.

Where in the NT do you find Christians are to keep ANY Sabbath?

SabbathBlessings · Sep 5, 2021

Dave L said:
Where in the NT do you find Christians are to keep ANY Sabbath?

There is no Jew or Gentile if you are in Christ. Do you think it’s okay to vain God’s name or worship other idols?

Dave L · Sep 5, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
There is no Jew or Gentile if you are in Christ. Do you think it’s okay to vain God’s name or worship other idols?

So you have zero Bible support yet teach your doctrines?

SabbathBlessings · Sep 5, 2021

Dave L said:
So you have zero Bible support yet teach your doctrines?

Maybe you should read my posts, I am the one quoting scripture I have yet to see one scripture reference from you or where God deleted the 4th commandment from His covenant of Ten. When God said He wrote His laws in our heart in the New Covenant, He did not say new laws, He said MY laws, which would include the laws He personally wrote with His own finger and stored in the Most Holy of His Temple. You still didn’t answer the question- are you free to worship other idols, vain His name lie and steal?

The New Covenant Sabbath is still Friday/Saturday

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