Millennialism is no longer part of Christianity

Dave L · Sep 4, 2021

Biblewriter said:
Whether or not the thousand year duration of the future earthly kingdom is literal or only a metaphor simky meaning "a very long time" is a mere detail.

There are a literal host of explicitly stated scriptures that explicitly promised the ancient nation of Israel that it would be re-established in its ancient homeland.

These are a literal host of explicitly stated scriptures that promised the ancient nation of Israel that it would be re-established in its ancient homeland. Jeremiah 31 literally uses that very word, "nation" in a promise that Israel would never cease.

But God did not just make these promises to the ancient nation of "Israel." He also made them to both of the ancient sub-nations of “Ephraim” and “Judah” in Isaiah 11:11-15, Ezekiel 37:15-28 and Zechariah 9:12-17, and to each of “the twelve tribes of Israel” by name in Ezekiel 48:1-8 and 23-19. He further made explicitly stated promises to the descendants of “Phinehas” in Numbers 25:10-13, to the descendants of “Zadok” in Ezekiel 44:15-16, to the descendants of “Nathan,” “Levi,” and “Shimei,” in Zechariah 12:12-13, to the descendants of the ancient “Levites” in Jeremiah 33:18 and Ezekiel 44:10-16, and to the descendants of “Jonadab” in Jeremiah 35:18-19. He also made explicitly stated promises to the “mountains of Israel,” along with “the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around” in Ezekiel 36:1-10, to the plot of real estate defined by specifying its borders in Ezekiel 47:13-20, to “Zion” in Zechariah 9:13, Joel 3:16-17 and Micah 4:2-13, and to the city of “Jerusalem” in Jeremiah 32:32-44 and 33:16, Joel 3:1-21, Micah 4:2-8, and Zechariah 14:2-21 and 12:1-9.

All these promises were made to the ancient “nation” of “Israel,” using terms that no scripture even implies could even possibly mean “the church.” But the promises did not stop there. Our God also made explicitly stated promises to the ancient nations of “Assyria” and “Egypt” in Isaiah 19:22-24, to the ancient nations of “Moab,” “Ammon,” and “Elam” in Jeremiah 48:47, Jeremiah 49:6, and Jeremiah 49:39, to “Sodom” and “Samaria” in Ezekiel 16:53-55, and finally, to the world generally in Isaiah 2:4, Micah 4:3, and Romans 11:15. So, even if you were correct in claiming that the “thousand years” of Revelation 20:1-8 is only a metaphor, simply meaning “a very long time,” this period is explicitly promised in many other scriptures. So whether this promised period of bliss will actually last “a thousand years,” or will only last “a very long time,” is only a minor detail. For it will most certainly take place, regardless of how long it will last. And anyone who denies this is making God out to be a liar.

The Kingdom is spiritual and present since Christ announced it. But unless a person is born-again they cannot see it. They are stuck following the Pharisees instead.

Biblewriter · Sep 4, 2021

Dave L said:
The Kingdom is spiritual and present since Christ announced it. But unless a person is born-again they cannot see it. They are stuck following the Pharisees instead.

Isaiah 66:15-20 makes it exceedingly clear that this will take place AFTER the Lord returns, Not BEFORE.

And Ezekiel 36:1-10 will not have been fulfilled as long as there is even one Jew living anywhere in the world outside of Israel.

Dave L · Sep 4, 2021

Biblewriter said:
Isaiah 66:15-20 makes it exceedingly clear that this will take place AFTER the Lord returns, Not BEFORE.

The born-again knew He set up His Kingdom in the time of the ancient Roman Empire according to Daniel. That it is spiritual, and the blind Pharisees could not discern it. But still look for their unscriptural physical millennial kingdom. God blinded them and this is why. You should know better than they.

Biblewriter · Sep 4, 2021

Dave L said:
The born-again knew He set up His Kingdom in the time of the ancient Roman Empire according to Daniel. That it is spiritual, and the blind Pharisees could not discern it. But still look for their unscriptural physical millennial kingdom. God blinded them and this is why. You should know better than they.

In saying this, you are making God out to be a liar. For He EXPLICITLY and UNCONDITIONALLY promised the ancient NATION of Israel that He would restore them, to their ancient homeland. And not ONLY to their ancient homeland, but to Himself. And God Himself told both Balak and David that he would have been lying when He made these promises, if He were not going to actually keep them

Dave L · Sep 4, 2021

Biblewriter said:
In saying this, you are making God out to be a liar. For He EXPLICITLY and UNCONDITIONALLY promised the ancient NATION of Israel that He would restore them, to their ancient homeland. And not ONLY to their ancient homeland, but to Himself. And God Himself told both Balak and David that he would have been lying when He made these promises, if He were not going to actually keep them

You cannot even grasp this.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)
We are biblical Israel. The broken off unbelievers are under wrath until the end. Check their history if you don't think so.

Biblewriter · Sep 4, 2021

Dave L said:
You cannot even grasp this.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)
We are biblical Israel. The broken off unbelievers are under wrath until the end. Check their history if you don't think so.

Romans 9:3-4 EXPLICITLY says that "the promises" STILL "pertain" to Paul's "countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites."

And Romans 11: 28-29 says, of these hardened rebels who had STILL not repented, that "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

The scriptures about the end time restoration of the NATION of Israel are too strongly stated for you, or anyone else, to be able to "get around" them.

The ONLY thing you can do with them is to deny that they actually mean what they so EXPLICITLY say. And the sad thing about this, is that you cannot quote EVEN ONE scripture that actually SAYS what you imagine these New Testament scriptures to MEAN.

So you are using YOUR CHOSEN INTERPRETATION of the MEANINGS of a relatively small number of scriptures, which never, NOT EVEN ONCE actually SAY what you imagine them to MEAN, as a lame excuse for denying what God EXPLICITLY said in a far greater number of scriptures.

Dave L · Sep 4, 2021

Biblewriter said:
Romans 9:3-4 EXPLICITLY says that "the promises" STILL "pertain" to Pau;'s "countrymen according to the flesh, whi are israelites."

And Romans 11: 28-29 says, of these hardened rebels who had STILL not repented, that "Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

The scriptures about the end time restoration of the NATION of Israel are too strongly stated for you, or anyone else, to e able to "get around" them.

The ONLY thing you can do with them is to deny that they actually mean what they so EXPLICITLY say. And the sad thing about this, is that you cannot quote EVEN ONE scripture that actually SAYS what you imagine these New Testament scriptures to MEAN.

So you are using YOUR CHOSEN INTERPRETATION of the MEANINGS of a relatively small number of scriptures, which never, NOT EVEN ONCE actually SAY what you imagine them to MEAN, as a lame excuse for denying what God EXPLICITLY said in a far greater number of scriptures.

Paul was one to whom this applied. But those who reject Christ remain under God's wrath until the end. A few convert to Christ and join Biblical Israel for their father's sake. But most are not related to Abraham. They are of northern European stock since the 9th century.

ViaCrucis · Sep 4, 2021

Biblewriter said:
In saying this, you are making God out to be a liar. For He EXPLICITLY and UNCONDITIONALLY promised the ancient NATION of Israel that He would restore them, to their ancient homeland. And not ONLY to their ancient homeland, but to Himself. And God Himself told both Balak and David that he would have been lying when He made these promises, if He were not going to actually keep them

The promised end to Exile and the oppression of the nations is found in Christ.

The land points to the promise, not the other way around.

The Suffering Servant poem in Isaiah, in which Israel is identified as God's Servant (Isaiah 49:3) is explicitly connected with the Messiah in the New Testament (Acts of the Apostles 8:32-35).

Jesus IS the fulfillment of God's promises to Israel, for all things are summed up in Christ, both in heaven and on earth (Ephesians 1:10).

And thus all who are in Christ are heirs, ours is the inheritance (Ephesians 1:11-14).

It's not about a piece of land in the Levant. It's about God redeeming the world, fulfilling His promises to Abraham and to Israel, and rescuing all nations, peoples, tribes, and tongues and bringing them together in Christ, reconciled to God, and the renewal of all things in the end when God is all-in-all.

Diaspora has ended, Christ is risen.
Diaspora has ended, Christ has ascended.
Diaspora has ended, Christ is coming again.
And all people shall come to Mt. Zion and worship the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world.
For every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
To the glory of God the Father.
Unto the Ages of Ages. Amen.

-CryptoLutheran

Biblewriter · Sep 4, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
The promised end to Exile and the oppression of the nations is found in Christ.

The land points to the promise, not the other way around.

The Suffering Servant poem in Isaiah, in which Israel is identified as God's Servant (Isaiah 49:3) is explicitly connected with the Messiah in the New Testament (Acts of the Apostles 8:32-35).

Jesus IS the fulfillment of God's promises to Israel, for all things are summed up in Christ, both in heaven and on earth (Ephesians 1:10).

And thus all who are in Christ are heirs, ours is the inheritance (Ephesians 1:11-14).

It's not about a piece of land in the Levant. It's about God redeeming the world, fulfilling His promises to Abraham and to Israel, and rescuing all nations, peoples, tribes, and tongues and bringing them together in Christ, reconciled to God, and the renewal of all things in the end when God is all-in-all.

Diaspora has ended, Christ is risen.
Diaspora has ended, Christ has ascended.
Diaspora has ended, Christ is coming again.
And all people shall come to Mt. Zion and worship the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world.
For every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
To the glory of God the Father.
Unto the Ages of Ages. Amen.

-CryptoLutheran

This is a flat denial of Ezekiel 36:1-10 and Ezekiel 47:13-20, just to name a few passages that EXPLICITLY say EXACTLY the OPPOSITE what you are saying.

ViaCrucis · Sep 4, 2021

Biblewriter said:
This is a flat denial of Ezekiel 36:1-10 and Ezekiel 47:13-20, just to name a few passages that say EXACTLY the OPPOSITE what you are saying.

Hardly. It's simply a rejection of your interpretation.

Ezekiel's prophecy concerning the end of Exile was literally fulfilled when that Exile came to a close. But in the more fuller sense is fulfilled in Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

Biblewriter · Sep 4, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
Hardly. It's simply a rejection of your interpretation.

Ezekiel's prophecy concerning the end of Exile was literally fulfilled when that Exile came to a close. But in the more fuller sense is fulfilled in Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

No, what I am saying is NOT interpretation. I am simply POINTING OUT what God EXPLICITLY said in PLAIN, CLEAR words, not only in the passages I have cited, but in MANY others as well.

YOU are using YOUR INTERPRETATION of the MEANINGS of other scriptures (which, by the way, never EVEN ONCE, actually SAY what YOU are INTERPRETING them to MEAN) as a lame excuse for denying what God EXPLICITLY said.

You said, "Ezekiel's prophecy concerning the end of Exile was literally fulfilled when that Exile came to a close." But I did not cite EVEN ONE scripture about "the end of Exile."

In Ezekiel 36:1-10, God EXPLICITLY said that "all the house of Israel, all of it" would again "inhabit" the "mountains of Israel," along with "the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around." God doubled the word "ALL" in the Hebrew text, to ensure that we understand that His meaning was "absolutely all," and not just "all" in a general sense. As long as there is a single Jew living anywhere in the world outside of Israel, this EXPLICITLY STATED prophecy will not have been fulfilled.

Ezekiel 47:13-20 EXPLICITLY states the future borders of the land of Israel. And the following chapter EXPLICITLY states how this PLOT OF REAL ESTATE will be divided among "the twelve tribes of Israel." It is simple historical fact that NOTHING even SLIGHTLY RESEMBLING either of these chapters has EVER happened. So it is simple nonsense to even TRY to PRETEND that this two chapter prophecy has EVER been fulfilled.

As to WHEN these prophecies will be fulfilled, we find it CLEARLY stated in Isaiah 66:15-20 as AFTER the Lord comes "with fire, to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire, and AFTER the battle of Armageddon, which is described, although not named. and THEN it EXPLICITLY says " 'and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,' says the LORD, 'as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.' " (Isaiah 66:19-20)

ViaCrucis · Sep 4, 2021

Biblewriter said:
No, what I am saying is NOT interpretation. I am simply POINTING OUT what God EXPLICITLY said in PLAIN, CLEAR words, not only in the passages I have cited, but in MANY others as well.

YOU are using YOUR INTERPRETATION of the MEANINGS of other scriptures (which, by the way, never EVEN ONCE, actually SAY what YOU are INTERPRETING them to MEAN) as a lame excuse for denying what God EXPLICITLY said.

You said, "Ezekiel's prophecy concerning the end of Exile was literally fulfilled when that Exile came to a close." But I did not cite EVEN ONE scripture about "the end of Exile."

In Ezekiel 36:1-10, God EXPLICITLY said that "all the house of Israel, all of it" would again "inhabit" the "mountains of Israel," along with "the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around." God doubled the word "ALL" in the Hebrew text, to ensure that we understand that His meaning was "absolutely all," and not just "all" in a general sense. As long as there is a single Jew living anywhere in the world outside of Israel, this EXPLICITLY STATED prophecy will not have been fulfilled.

Ezekiel 47:13-20 EXPLICITLY states the future borders of the land of Israel. And the following chapter EXPLICITLY states how this PLOT OF REAL ESTATE will be divided among "the twelve tribes of Israel." It is simple historical fact that NOTHING even SLIGHTLY RESEMBLING either of these chapters has EVER happened. So it is simple nonsense to even TRY to PRETEND that this two chapter prophecy has EVER been fulfilled.

As to WHEN these prophecies will be fulfilled, we find it CLEARLY stated in Isaiah 66:15-20 as AFTER the Lord comes "with fire, to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire, and AFTER the battle of Armageddon, which is described, although not named. and THEN it EXPLICITLY says " 'and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,' says the LORD, 'as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.' " (Isaiah 66:19-20)

Since we can't even agree on you having an interpretation of Scripture, I'm not sure how any further discourse should be profitable for either of us.

God's peace be with you.

-CryptoLutheran

Biblewriter · Sep 6, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
Since we can't even agree on you having an interpretation of Scripture, I'm not sure how any further discourse should be profitable for either of us.

God's peace be with you.

-CryptoLutheran

Ever since I began polemic writing, more than 45 years ago, Those that preferred their own personal interpretations of the meanings of some scriptures to the explicit statements of other scriptures, have always called these explicit statements, "interpretations." But YOU are the one that is interpreting scripture, not ME.

U.S. Grant · Sep 27, 2021

Biblewriter said:
No, what I am saying is NOT interpretation. I am simply POINTING OUT what God EXPLICITLY said in PLAIN, CLEAR words, not only in the passages I have cited, but in MANY others as well.

YOU are using YOUR INTERPRETATION of the MEANINGS of other scriptures (which, by the way, never EVEN ONCE, actually SAY what YOU are INTERPRETING them to MEAN) as a lame excuse for denying what God EXPLICITLY said.

You said, "Ezekiel's prophecy concerning the end of Exile was literally fulfilled when that Exile came to a close." But I did not cite EVEN ONE scripture about "the end of Exile."

In Ezekiel 36:1-10, God EXPLICITLY said that "all the house of Israel, all of it" would again "inhabit" the "mountains of Israel," along with "the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken, which became plunder and mockery to the rest of the nations all around." God doubled the word "ALL" in the Hebrew text, to ensure that we understand that His meaning was "absolutely all," and not just "all" in a general sense. As long as there is a single Jew living anywhere in the world outside of Israel, this EXPLICITLY STATED prophecy will not have been fulfilled.

Ezekiel 47:13-20 EXPLICITLY states the future borders of the land of Israel. And the following chapter EXPLICITLY states how this PLOT OF REAL ESTATE will be divided among "the twelve tribes of Israel." It is simple historical fact that NOTHING even SLIGHTLY RESEMBLING either of these chapters has EVER happened. So it is simple nonsense to even TRY to PRETEND that this two chapter prophecy has EVER been fulfilled.

As to WHEN these prophecies will be fulfilled, we find it CLEARLY stated in Isaiah 66:15-20 as AFTER the Lord comes "with fire, to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire, and AFTER the battle of Armageddon, which is described, although not named. and THEN it EXPLICITLY says " 'and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,' says the LORD, 'as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.' " (Isaiah 66:19-20)

The only way the prophecy at the end of Ezekiel will come to pass, is if the Lord revives the Old Covenant for a carnal seed of promise to Abraham, along with the blood sacrifices for sins.

That carnal seed of promise does not exist at this time.

Biblewriter · Sep 27, 2021

U.S. Grant said:
The only way the prophecy at the end of Ezekiel will come to pass, is if the Lord revives the Old Covenant for a carnal seed of promise to Abraham, along with the blood sacrifices for sins.

That carnal seed of promise does not exist at this time.

Almost all of the promises made to the ancient nation of Israel were unconditional. And all of the promises made to the two ancient sub-nations of Ephraim and Judah and to each of the twelve tribes of Israel by name, as well as to the physical land which these nations occupied in ancient times, were unconditional. And all of these promises were explicitly stated in pain, clear, words.

You are calling God a liar.

U.S. Grant · Sep 28, 2021

Biblewriter said:
Almost all of the promises made to the ancient nation of Israel were unconditional. And all of the promises made to the two ancient sub-nations of Ephraim and Judah and to each of the twelve tribes of Israel by name, as well as to the physical land which these nations occupied in ancient times, were unconditional. And all of these promises were explicitly stated in pain, clear, words.

You are calling God a liar.

Whatever. When we have no answer, then we can just say so. Nothing to be ashamed of. We can always come back later.

In order for the Scripture not to lie, God will need revive the old covenant and all it's laws in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

This does not say He can't nor won't, but only that He must.

The only promises of God made to His people, that were not conditional on the one promised, was to Abraham and Jacob, to their seed, after they had proven themselves by faith to God.

Everywhere after that, to the seed itself, there was and remains always 'IF':

And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof...and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them. (Ezek 42)

U.S. Grant · Sep 28, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
The promised end to Exile and the oppression of the nations is found in Christ.

The land points to the promise, not the other way around.

The Suffering Servant poem in Isaiah, in which Israel is identified as God's Servant (Isaiah 49:3) is explicitly connected with the Messiah in the New Testament (Acts of the Apostles 8:32-35).

Jesus IS the fulfillment of God's promises to Israel, for all things are summed up in Christ, both in heaven and on earth (Ephesians 1:10).

And thus all who are in Christ are heirs, ours is the inheritance (Ephesians 1:11-14).

It's not about a piece of land in the Levant. It's about God redeeming the world, fulfilling His promises to Abraham and to Israel, and rescuing all nations, peoples, tribes, and tongues and bringing them together in Christ, reconciled to God, and the renewal of all things in the end when God is all-in-all.

Diaspora has ended, Christ is risen.
Diaspora has ended, Christ has ascended.
Diaspora has ended, Christ is coming again.
And all people shall come to Mt. Zion and worship the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world.
For every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
To the glory of God the Father.
Unto the Ages of Ages. Amen.

-CryptoLutheran

Agree. Good job.

The Israel of God has not been done away, but rather the people of Israel have been changed completely: from that of physical blood birth and outward circumcision, to that of faith in Christ Jesus, who is the promised seed, and inward circumcision of the Spirit.

At the cross, all the lost sheep of the house of Israel forsook Jesus according to His prophecy (John 16), and so all were counted in unbelief (Rom 11:32), judged as sinners of the world with the Gentiles (Rom 3:10-11), and broken off the green olive tree of the house of Israel and of Judah. (Rom 11)

Jesus IS the fulfillment of God's promises to Israel.

Everything changed. Covenant, people, and promise. Many 'last days' interpreters just skip over this part, pertaining to the house of Israel, and act like it was just some sort of blip or stepping stone in the history of a physical seed on earth.

Jesus came to fulfill those promises to the lost sheep of the house of Israel: the Jews. (Rom 15:8)

And was rejected and completely forsaken at the cross: the God of Israel that made the promises and covenants died. He kept His promise to Abraham and Jacob, which was not conditional on those two, who had proven their faith to Him. The physical seed however failed utterly, upon whom the covenant was dependent, and so the seed is now of promise by faith in Christ.

There are two different last days prophecies: the first being the last days of the first covenant with a complete cutting off of all the people and breaking of the covenant at the death of the Redeemer, and the next being the last days of the new covenant with a remnant alive and remaining at the coming of the Risen Redeemer.

The house of Jacob now being all them grafted in by faith. (Amos 9)

Biblewriter · Sep 28, 2021

U.S. Grant said:
Whatever. When we have no answer, then we can just say so. Nothing to be ashamed of. We can always come back later.

In order for the Scripture not to lie, God will need revive the old covenant and all it's laws in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled.

This does not say He can't nor won't, but only that He must.

The only promises of God made to His people, that were not conditional on the one promised, was to Abraham and Jacob, to their seed, after they had proven themselves by faith to God.

Everywhere after that, to the seed itself, there was and remains always 'IF':

And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof...and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them. (Ezek 42)

This is 100% pure INTERPRETATION on your part. No scripture actually says ANY of what you have said here. They only say things that you INTERPRET to MEAN what you have said.

On the other hand, the scriptures about the future re-establishment of the ancient NATION of Israel, both to its ancient homeland and to its God, are EXPLICITLY and UNCONDITIONALLY stated in PLAIN, CLEAR, words.

The "if" statements in the passage you quoted from Ezekiel 42, referred to SHOWING the people what God was going to do, not to WHETHER OR NOT the things would happen. You cannot find a single "if" in Ezekiel 36 1-10, which EXPLICITLY promises that the return would involve "all the house of Israel, all of it," nor a single "if" in Ezekiel 47:13-20, which precisely defines the future borders of the land of Israel, nor in Ezekiel 48, which specifies how that PLOT OF REAL ESTATE will be divided among "the twelve tribes of Israel," nor in Jeremiah 31:35-37, which EXPLICITLY says that the NATION of Israel will NEVER cease to exist, and that God will NEVER cast them aside.

The worship system described in Ezekiel is NOT a return to the law of Moses. Both the sacrifices and the associated ordinances are DISTINCTLY different from those in the law of Moses. It is a new system of worship, different from both the old system established under Moses, and the current system, established under Jesus.

The God who had the RIGHT to set up the worship system under Moses, and who had the RIGHT to change it under Jesus, has the RIGHT to change it again in the future.

U.S. Grant · Sep 28, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
The promised end to Exile and the oppression of the nations is found in Christ.

The land points to the promise, not the other way around.

The Suffering Servant poem in Isaiah, in which Israel is identified as God's Servant (Isaiah 49:3) is explicitly connected with the Messiah in the New Testament (Acts of the Apostles 8:32-35).

Jesus IS the fulfillment of God's promises to Israel, for all things are summed up in Christ, both in heaven and on earth (Ephesians 1:10).

And thus all who are in Christ are heirs, ours is the inheritance (Ephesians 1:11-14).

It's not about a piece of land in the Levant. It's about God redeeming the world, fulfilling His promises to Abraham and to Israel, and rescuing all nations, peoples, tribes, and tongues and bringing them together in Christ, reconciled to God, and the renewal of all things in the end when God is all-in-all.

Diaspora has ended, Christ is risen.
Diaspora has ended, Christ has ascended.
Diaspora has ended, Christ is coming again.
And all people shall come to Mt. Zion and worship the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world.
For every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
To the glory of God the Father.
Unto the Ages of Ages. Amen.

-CryptoLutheran

The land points to the promise, not the other way around.

True. There is no more profit in the flesh. In the first covenant, flesh and earth was everything: birth by blood, outward circumcision, and land inheritance.

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh.

Since there is no more outward circumcision with God, then no man can fulfill the law on the 8th day, and so all are cut off from the people of Israel by birth of flesh. (Gen 17:14)

Those branches were all broken off at the cross and counted for sinners of the Gentiles, and so now all people of the earth are born Gentiles from God, except they repent and believe the Gospel and are grafted into His house of Israel and of Judah to be God's circumcision in Christ.

When the God of Israel was forced to make a covenant by law with the physical seed, after they drew back from the one of promise (Ex 20), He made their birthright dependent on circumcision according to the law of Moses.

Now, that law is done away, and so they are concluded with Gentiles and nations of the earth, because they can no longer fulfill the law of circumcision with God on the eighth day.

All nations on earth are now all nations of the earth, and one of them still calls themselves 'Israel', but it is in name only. Their place as Israel with God is no more valid than their continued religion of the Jews and outward circumcision of the flesh.

All nations are now alike in relationship to God, and they are all but a drop of the bucket.

There is no Greek nor Jew in Christ, and there is no nation of Israel vs Nations of Gentiles in the world, other than God's holy nation and peculiar people: Christians.

For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name. (Is 62)

And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

U.S. Grant · Sep 28, 2021

Dave L said:
You cannot even grasp this.

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” 1 Peter 2:9 (KJV 1900)
We are biblical Israel. The broken off unbelievers are under wrath until the end. Check their history if you don't think so.

Even after the Redeemer has come and died on the cross, people still want to read prophecy of Scripture with the vail of a fleshy seed over their eyes, even as them in the Jews religion want to read all Scripture with the vail of Moses over their hearts.

The broken off unbelievers are under wrath until the end.

Except any of them repent and are grafted in again.

The uncircumcised nation that calls itself 'Israel' in name only is no more abhorred nor honored by God, than any other uncircumcised nation and people on earth: any may be redeemed by faith in Jesus.

Romans 11 was not about the physical seed being still 'special' to God, but about God's mercy allowing any of them to be welcomed back to the fold by faith, just like any other unbeliever on earth.

Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

At the cross, there was a complete wiping of the dish, and with His resurrection there is a restoration of all things in Him: a people, kingdom, family, inheritance, hope, promises...

We are biblical Israel.

Yes. We are now physical Israel of God on earth. The physical body of Christ, the risen king of Israel.

Christians in natural bodies, not born of the flesh as was Ishmael, but after the Spirit as was Isaac.

Millennialism is no longer part of Christianity

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