The Mark of the Beast

DavidPT · Aug 29, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
Laodicea was a self-satisfied church which God said He was "ABOUT TO spew thee out of my mouth..." This imminent disaster for Laodidcea was the AD 60 earthquake which was about to decimate the city - and the church. Meaning Revelation had to have been written JUST PRIOR to that AD 60 earthquake.

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Roman times

At the beginning of the first century BCE, Asia Minor was shaken by the series of wars, waged in its territory between Rome and the Pontic king Mithridates VI. Many cities, including Laodicea, suffered heavily as the result of these events. Laodicea quickly recovered from the devastation and Rome granted it the status of a free city. The golden era of Laodicea's prosperity was between the 1st and the 5th centuries CE.
Laodicea on the Lycus | Turkish Archaeological News
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In my mind, before 60 AD and after 60 AD both fall within the period of time I have underlined. And so what if there was an earthquake in 60 AD? In what way would that no longer make them rich? For example. If an earthquake were to level the house where Donald Trump currently lives, and assuming no physical harm came to him, he would still be rich. That earthquake wouldn't change that fact.

To me to then argue that this proves an early date when it can just as well prove a later date also, this argument is not all that convincing. To me it doesn't matter when Revelation was written. It doesn't affect me in the least, I'm still going to continue interpreting it like I have been doing all along. So I'm just trying to be objective here, and not that I'm taking sides.

BobRyan · Sep 1, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
These were very timely messages to the seven churches who were at that point in time being tested.

that is a common misconception although it is true that many churches existed at the time of the writing of the book of Revelation in 90 A.D. But the reason these specific 7 were chosen among them all - is that they represent 7 church ages.

3 Resurrections said:
The church at Smyna was "ABOUT TO" have some of them thrown into prison. They were not to fear what they were "ABOUT TO SUFFER" (Rev. 2:10).

Many Christians had suffered and died by the time John wrote the book of Rev in 90 A.D. Even the NT text shows early persecution of the Christians in the book of Acts.

They were "about to suffer" while in the upper room on Acts 1. By the time we get to the Book of Revelation in Rev 2- a great many decades of suffering for Christians had already happened.

The 7 churches in Rev 2 and 3 - are seven church ages. We are currently in the 7th and final age - the Laodicean age.

3 Resurrections · Sep 1, 2021

BobRyan said:
The 7 churches in Rev 2 and 3 - are seven church ages. We are currently in the 7th and final age - the Laodicean age.

Actually, I can identify seven ages of fallen man's history on this planet, with each of them lasting a 1,000 years. We are fast approaching the close of the sixth millennium of human history in 2033. Why 2033? Because all human history revolves around the AD 33 date with Christ's "First resurrection" event, which ended the 4th (Rev. 20) millennium of human history. When the final seventh millennia of fallen man's history begins in 2033, I believe things will go fallow across the world, just like an extended Sabbath period. It will be as if God will tell the entire world "BE STILL, and know that I am God".

BobRyan · Sep 1, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
Actually, I can identify seven ages of fallen man's history on this planet, with each of them lasting a 1,000 years.

No doubt. But in this case we are looking at the 7 churches that God picked in Rev 2-3 as representing the 7 ages of the church from John's day to this very day. Those were not the main churches or the biggest churches or the first Christian churches - they were churches God picked because they could be used to represent 7 church ages and the conditions/remedies God wanted to highlight for each church age.

Hammster · Sep 1, 2021

BobRyan said:
No doubt. But in this case we are looking at the 7 churches that God picked in Rev 2-3 as representing the 7 ages of the church from John's day to this very day. Those were not the main churches or the biggest churches or the first Christian churches - they were churches God picked because they could be used to represent 7 church ages and the conditions/remedies God wanted to highlight for each church age.

I’d love to see the scriptural support for that.

BobRyan · Sep 1, 2021

BobRyan said:
Those were not the main churches or the biggest churches or the first Christian churches - they were churches God picked because they could be used to represent 7 church ages and the conditions/remedies God wanted to highlight for each church age.

Indeed - those were no "the only Christian churches" on planet earth in 90 A.D. when John was writing the book of Revelation - and they were not "the biggest" or most influential. Rather they were chosen because they represented church ages... 7 church ages.

Hammster said:
I’d love to see the scriptural support for that.

Some of what is stated there is simply "historic fact" -- were you hoping the Bible would point to a history text?

Hammster · Sep 1, 2021

BobRyan said:
Indeed - those were no "the only Christian churches" on planet earth in 90 A.D. when John was writing the book of Revelation - and they were not "the biggest" or most influential. Rather they were chosen because they represented church ages... 7 church ages.

Some of what is stated there is simply "historic fact" -- were you hoping the Bible would point to a history text?

I was hoping you’d show that they were picked to show the so-called seven church ages. Certainly there must be something in scripture that supports that.

3 Resurrections · Sep 2, 2021

BobRyan said:
Those were not the main churches or the biggest churches or the first Christian churches - they were churches God picked because they could be used to represent 7 church ages and the conditions/remedies God wanted to highlight for each church age.

There is no doubt that God used the number 7 to represent a complete totality of certain things throughout scripture. So I would say that the 7 specific churches mentioned in Revelation were an indication that God wanted His message to go out to the complete totality of the believers in all the churches present in those days.

Just like Christ promising a seven-fold return of unclean spirits to plague that generation represented the ENTIRE demonic realm coming to plague them in their "last state" (Matthew 12:43-45).

Timtofly · Sep 2, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
There is no doubt that God used the number 7 to represent a complete totality of certain things throughout scripture. So I would say that the 7 specific churches mentioned in Revelation were an indication that God wanted His message to go out to the complete totality of the believers in all the churches present in those days.

Just like Christ promising a seven-fold return of unclean spirits to plague that generation represented the ENTIRE demonic realm coming to plague them in their "last state" (Matthew 12:43-45).

Or those were 7 churches that John was given charge over. John sent the message to them, so they could spread that message to the rest of the churches.

As the shepherd of those churches, John would have known their strengths and weaknesses. Each church would have known their own conditions.

Unfortunately for them, the whole world found out about those strengths and weaknesses.

3 Resurrections · Sep 2, 2021

Timtofly said:
Unfortunately for them, the whole world found out about those strengths and weaknesses.

Yes, this deterioration in the churches had become common knowledge, ever since Paul wrote to Timothy that "This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me". (2 Timothy 1:15). Paul wrote about this degenerated state of affairs in Asia just prior to his martyrdom in AD 67. That meant the FORMER state of the churches in Revelation (written around AD 59-60), with many of them in a wavering condition of faithfulness, had apostatized by the time Paul wrote that verse to Timothy around AD 67. This had to be discouraging for Paul, under whose missionary activity, "...all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks." (Acts 19:10).

It would have been discouraging, if Paul had not already known, along with Peter, about the prediction for the deceptive powers of Satan to be greatly ramped up during that time. Satan as a wrathful adversary was then "walking about as a roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8), seeking those he could devour with his deception during that "short time" when he had been loosed.

Timtofly · Sep 3, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
Yes, this deterioration in the churches had become common knowledge, ever since Paul wrote to Timothy that "This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me". (2 Timothy 1:15). Paul wrote about this degenerated state of affairs in Asia just prior to his martyrdom in AD 67. That meant the FORMER state of the churches in Revelation (written around AD 59-60), with many of them in a wavering condition of faithfulness, had apostatized by the time Paul wrote that verse to Timothy around AD 67. This had to be discouraging for Paul, under whose missionary activity, "...all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks." (Acts 19:10).

It would have been discouraging, if Paul had not already known, along with Peter, about the prediction for the deceptive powers of Satan to be greatly ramped up during that time. Satan as a wrathful adversary was then "walking about as a roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8), seeking those he could devour with his deception during that "short time" when he had been loosed.

The short time known as the time between Adam and Paul? You are going to have to show some proof, Satan has been locked up with no long chain and has had no contact with humans in any way shape or form. No occult. No pagans. Just normal children of Noah, living exactly like Noah preached.

3 Resurrections · Sep 3, 2021

BobRyan said:
Many Christians had suffered and died by the time John wrote the book of Rev in 90 A.D. Even the NT text shows early persecution of the Christians in the book of Acts.

They were "about to suffer" while in the upper room on Acts 1. By the time we get to the Book of Revelation in Rev 2- a great many decades of suffering for Christians had already happened.

I agree that there were at least two major periods of persecution for the church before John was writing. As you have written, the disciples truly were "about to suffer" beatings by the Jewish leaders shortly after Christ had finally ascended to heaven. But these persecution periods were not the same tribulation period under discussion in Revelation 2:10 for Smyrna. The tribulation period for some of the believers in the Smyrna church was predicted to last for "TEN DAYS".

Do I think this was literally ten 24-hour days? Hardly. No more than it took a literal "one hour" of sixty minutes for Jerusalem / Babylon to fall. This "ten days" was more than likely ten YEARS of persecuted suffering for those in Smyrna - probably from AD 60 until AD 70, since John was writing Revelation somewhere between AD 59 and early AD 60 at the very latest, just after the persecution for the saints in Asia had cranked up as fallout from the Ephesian silversmith riot in AD 57. This was the same persecution period in Asia that Paul claimed was so bad that he "despaired even of life" (II Cor. 1:8). It was also the same period of tribulation that John said he was then experiencing in Revelation 1:9.

Timtofly said:
The short time known as the time between Adam and Paul? You are going to have to show some proof, Satan has been locked up with no long chain and has had no contact with humans in any way shape or form. No occult. No pagans. Just normal children of Noah, living exactly like Noah preached.

I'm sorry, Timtofly, I'm afraid I don't understand the point you are making here. Care to rephrase it a bit? I haven't mentioned Adam at all or Noah in this discussion that I know of.

WhoIsLikeGod? · Sep 3, 2021

Endtime Servant said:
This came by revelation around 2000. The Mark of the Beast is the number of a man. Our identity will be digitized, and it is the number of a man, or woman. Each one of us has a unique identity, and it's digitized number will be used to control who can buy and sell. The Vax mandates are just the first step, that is occurring worldwide, and will preclude when the Man of Sin, Son of Perdition, requires all, both great and small, to accept this when he enforces all to accept the marking

The 6th letter of the Hebrew alphabet is "waw," representing the consonant "w." It has a numerical value of 6, like the Roman letter "v" is a 5 (Waw (letter) - Wikipedia). 666 is literally "WWW." The World Wide Web was invented by one man, Tim Berners-Lee of London. The web comes on your mobile phone which you carry in your right hand, which also comes with a unique, hidden SIM card. It is practically glued to your dominant hand, being used for nearly everything. It can be given on your forehead, meaning it is all you think about and all you do, essentially becoming your God. According to a survey conducted in February 2021, nearly half of the respondents stated that on average they spent five to six hours on their phone on a daily basis, not including work-related smartphone use. A further 22 percent of respondents said that they spent three to four hours on average on their phone daily.

"Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates (Deu. 6:4–9)."

The word "mark" as in "mark of the beast" is an English word derived from the Greek "charagma," which means: a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or sculptured figure (statue):—graven, mark. Thing carved, sculpture, graven work (G5480 - charagma - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)). This is how the word was originally used in the Bible.

iPhone factory - California USA (

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There will be many people who refuse to believe this. It will be because they will see that they already have the mark of the beast. But so do I. And that's exactly what the Bible says!

"And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead (Rev. 13:16),"

All, not some. Not even "only the unbelievers." There will be no stopping it. There may be resistance, but no stopping it. I, for one, never wanted a cell phone. I was content using the pay phones we had installed all over my school. I didn't even really need those. My parents pushed a cell phone on me when I went away to college.

Just because we have smartphones does not mean we're going to hell.

Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus (Rev. 14:9–12).

In order to drink of the wine of the wrath of God, one must:
1) Worship the beast (the digital age)
2) Worship the beast's image (Sophia the robot)
AND 3) Receive a mark (smartphone) on his forehead or on his hand

All 3. The conjunction used here is "and," not "or."

Isn't it interesting that in just over 30 years we've gone from 0 World Wide Web users to 4.66 billion users?

An interesting book on the subject is Daryl Breese's "Revelation WWW. Is 666."

Timtofly · Sep 3, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
I'm sorry, Timtofly, I'm afraid I don't understand the point you are making here. Care to rephrase it a bit? I haven't mentioned Adam at all or Noah in this discussion that I know of.

Satan has never been bound. This "short season" of Satan is all 5991 years since the fall till now.

3 Resurrections · Sep 3, 2021

Timtofly said:
Satan has never been bound.

Yes, he has. Solomon's laying of the Temple foundation stone and the building of that Temple was the particular "set time" of Zion's favor (Ps. 102:13). It was then during the millennium of a physical temple worship system that the prophet David said Solomon would be used by God to "bring low the false accuser" in Psalms 72:4 LXX. (And we know that Satan was called "the accuser of the brethren", in Revelation 12:10.) Solomon's Temple era began that millennium of Satan's binding, which lasted a literal thousand years until Christ's crucifixion and the "First resurrection" with its ascension in AD 33.

And a "short" season can never be considered as lasting longer than Joshua 24:7's "long season" of 40 years.

Trivalee · Sep 3, 2021

Dave L said:
We fully recognized the mark of the beast in the papacy. But we still see it anytime evil demands obedience to totalitarian laws that place their law over God's law. We see this in the Obama administration and the Biden administration that put Christians out of business unless they support laws protecting sinful lifestyles.

There's

2PhiloVoid said:
Personally, I think the Mark is more insidious than this and already long-running in history rather than something pertaining to modern 'digitized techno-permission.' The Mark is already here and has been with us since even before the time of Christ.

This is my view on it. And I know I could be wrong, but I don't feel that I am. I guess we'll all see as time goes by.

Acts 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The mark of the beast is associated with the False Prophet. Until he shows up the "mark" will not be introduced. Although it is arguable that today's innovation and technologies are paving the way for that time in history.

According to scripture, there's zero foundation for the argument that the mark is already existing either in the Papacy or the secular world.

Trivalee · Sep 3, 2021

3 Resurrections said:
Yes, he has. Solomon's laying of the Temple foundation stone and the building of that Temple was the particular "set time" of Zion's favor (Ps. 102:13). It was then during the millennium of a physical temple worship system that the prophet David said Solomon would be used by God to "bring low the false accuser" in Psalms 72:4 LXX. (And we know that Satan was called "the accuser of the brethren", in Revelation 12:10.) Solomon's Temple era began that millennium of Satan's binding, which lasted a literal thousand years until Christ's crucifixion and the "First resurrection" with its ascension in AD 33.

And a "short" season can never be considered as lasting longer than Joshua 24:7's "long season" of 40 years.

Satan is not yet bound, any claim that he is is erroneous.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.

If Satan is bound, how come he's still walking about seeking whom he may devour?

2PhiloVoid · Sep 3, 2021

Trivalee said:
There's

Acts 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The mark of the beast is associated with the False Prophet. Until he shows up the "mark" will not be introduced. Although it is arguable that today's innovation and technologies are paving the way for that time in history.

According to scripture, there's zero foundation for the argument that the mark is already existing either in the Papacy or the secular world.

I never said it was in the Papacy. And the Mark belongs to the first beast, but the second beast further fosters it ......................................... in history.

Again, that's my view.

Trivalee · Sep 3, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
I never said it was in the Papacy. And the Mark belongs to the first beast, but the second beast further fosters it ......................................... in history.

Again, that's my view.

You said: "We fully recognized the mark of the beast in the papacy". Now you say it is not in the Papacy. You need to make up your mind about which one it is.

I constantly find myself scratching my head to make sense of your views. For example, you claimed that the "mark" belongs to the first beast and is fostered by the second.....in history. History relates to past events, not the future. And since neither the first beast (Antichrist) nor the second (False prophet) has appeared on the world stage, there's no basis to claim it is in history.

2PhiloVoid · Sep 3, 2021

Trivalee said:
You said: "We fully recognized the mark of the beast in the papacy". Now you say it is not in the Papacy. You need to make up your mind about which one it is.

You have me confused with someone else above, bud! I've NEVER said such a thing in the 10 years I've been on CF.

I constantly find myself scratching my head to make sense of your views. For example, you claimed that the "mark" belongs to the first beast and is fostered by the second.....in history. History relates to past events, not the future. And since neither the first beast (Antichrist) nor the second (False prophet) has appeared on the world stage, there's no basis to claim it is in history.

You may want to widen your research as you scoure about for resources by which to understand biblical Eschatology. There is more than one view on the nature of the Apocalpytic writings; in fact, there's more than 4 even.

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