the standard of righteousness

prophecy_uk

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BibleHighlighter: "To all:

Those in whom I choose to ignore because of differences of beliefs does not mean I read every word that they write. I may skim a few of their posts at times and at other times, I ignore many of their whole posts by them."

"I changed my mind so as to help you on this particular point and not so that we can have a back and forth Bible discussion. My response was an exception to the rule and it was only temporarily"

Yes you read some, and you responded at times too ?

Then, you did not change your mind to help me on this particular ( singular) point, you already were reading the posts at times, and your response was not an exception to the rule, as you previously responded which I exampled, or did I not?
 
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Brightfame52

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Brightfame: "The just shall have eternal life by faith, not by law keeping (Galatians 3:11-14).
Christs death Justifes them He died for then they believe."


Then we wonder why there was a change of the law, if it is not by law keeping, don't we ?


Oh yes, it is all testified ( to believe in for true faith) how perfection was not by the levitical priesthood, we had a change of priesthood, and a change needed then of the law ( not no law that's lawless transgression talk) but the law made nothing perfect, but the hope of Christ did..

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


The law was a mere shadow of good things to come, and could never make the comerfs perfect.

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.


Then Christ comes to do the Fathers will, this is the perfection, as Christ as testified here, takes away the first ( covenant) that He might establish then the second ( covenant)..


Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

This is then God writing His righteousness in our hearts, as the heart of man is to believe in righteousness, and you people never talk of this new covenant, nor the fact this is how and the only time your sins would be forgiven and remembered o more ( dependent upon the new soft heart of flesh/new Spirit and His fear now in us)..

Hebrews 10:1 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.[/QUOTE]
Christs death Justifies a person, thats it. Then later on in life the Spirit gives them life, and faith to believe in what Christ has done for them, the just shall live by faith.
 
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prophecy_uk

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"Christs death Justifes them He died for then they believe."

Believe in the heart to righteousness, and the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in them, and if they do unrighteousness, how is that any belief other than in unrighteousness. Here all is manifested, so why talk about what does not manifest..

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
 
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Doug Brents

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Doug : "NO! Faith is NOT the gift we receive from God. The thing we have faith in is the gift of God. Salvation itself is the gift of God. Faith is our response to hearing the Gospel (Rom 10:17, James 2:14-26)."


OK Doug, if they responded in faith to hearing the Gospel, who gave them their ears to hear with, to believe in the report, to be enabled to obey ?

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Is this the problem then, people do not recognize the testimony in this chapter of Romans 10, that the Gentiles did not seek God, but God was reaching out to Israel, until God killed them and called His servants by another name, ( first called Christians at Antioch) then they bless themselves knowing TRUTH ( believing the report)..

Isaiah 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Romans 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.


Follow it and see, how the Gentiles did not follow after God, but Israel sought without faith ( they were never given to believe) but stumbled at Christ by being offended in Him ( His word having no place in them..

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


It's a very easy thing to show, but it shows nobody cares in this thread or in this forum to try to set anything straight, they are interested only in debate, and blaspheming the Holy Ghost, because talk is worthless.


Yet they believed not on Christ, to fulfil the saying, who believed the report ?

The arm of Christ was not revealed, as it has to be, or nobody can believe, by having blinded eyes, and that hardened stony heart, no conversion by being gifted faith, which is God calling us and Him writing the new covenant in our heart of soft flesh..

John 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
I very much love the truth, but unfortunately I find very little of it, on this subject at least, on this thread or in the many “Churches” with which I am familiar.

People too frequently want to push ALL the responsibility of salvation off on God. And while He is solely responsible for there being a possibility of salvation in the first place, He made it abundantly clear that man must respond to Him in faith (belief in action) to receive His blessing.

Somewhin a recent post in this thread, someone was discussing forgiveness vs salvation. They are synonymous. You cannot have salvation without forgiveness, and when you are forgiven, you are saved.

This is what makes Rom 6:1-14 so powerful in this discussion. Paul says here that we are baptized into Jesus’ death, and if we are in likeness to His death then we have died to sin and will be raised as Christ was. So the old, dead man goes into the water of baptism and the new, alive man comes out of the water. And it is the Holy Spirit that is doing the work as stated in the parallel passage in Col 2:11-14.

Yes, God called the Jews first, but they refused to hear. His own people who should have been looking for Him, missed Jesus. But then a people who didn’t even know to be looking were introduced to the idea of a savior (not even knowing that they needed a savior), and many of them jumped at the idea. Still, it is the jumping (the action taken in response to hearing the Gospel) that is faith, and that is the conduit through which God’s grace (forgiveness) flows into our life.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Brightfame: " Christs death Justifies a person, thats it. Then later on in life the Spirit gives them life, and faith to believe in what Christ has done for them,"



Justified, by drawing nigh to God, or how do you believe in what Christ had done for us?

Only by drawing nigh to God, does God draw nigh to us ?

This is dine by cleaning your hands you sinners, and purify your heart you double minded..

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


Because the bringing in of the better hope ( to hope in of course) is what made us perfect to draw night to and with..

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
 
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Doug Brents

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Its simple, the justified, those who are Justified by the death/blood of Christ alone, will one day be given Faith to know about it. Until a Justified person is given Faith, he or she knows nothing about it.
The blood of Christ does not cleanse anyone until they have exhibited faith. Because grace comes through faith. Faith does not come through (or after) grace. You cannot be justified without the grace of God, and grace is received AFTER faith is demonstrated.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Doug: "Yes, God called the Jews first, but they refused to hear."


Yes, Clare has the same opinion as you, that it is our faith, but no such verses..


Clare: " It is our faith which God works in us. (Philippians 2:13)."


God works in us, by the faith of Jesus Christ, unto and upon all them that believe, according as God gave to every man a measure of faith, and what do we have that we did not receive ?

The revealing of the Spirit is given to every man to profit with, to one is given by the Spirit faith, knowing we are justified not by our own faith, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, for us to believe in Jesus Christ to be justified by the faith of Christ ( not our faith) or we cannot be justified, so the free gift ( of faith which works by grace) comes from Christ, as none sought after God( no faith in man) so God sought us..

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ezekiel 34:11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Doug: "Faith does not come through (or after) grace"


We need to draw near to God by a true heart, to have full assurance of faith, which is our heart sprinkled ( by Gods grace) of the previous evil conscience, and washing our body to be cleaned ( renewed)..

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.



Speaking of the true heart to draw near and night to God, salvation ( believing in Christ/faith) comes by sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth..

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:



Now here is your problem to say you have that true faith, the Spirit of truth is required to have truth, to be received, then we know who hears ( given ears to hear with, eyes to see with, and an heart to perceive with/believe given, which is all by grace) are who has been given that Spirit of truth, or they yet have the spirit of error and think their faith is or can ever be true?


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
 
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RandyPNW

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Let's read it.

2 Corinthians 7:1
“... let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”​

You say that we cannot cleanse ourselves here on this earth.

I didn't say we can't be cleansed on this earth! My argument was that we can be cleansed, but not made perfect. The cleansing process is going on all the time because we are always contaminated with sin.

This doesn't mean we walk a life of sin, but only that we are impure to some degree even as we follow Christ and produce good works. I realize by now you are utterly unable to see this. So no sense continuing.

To you you're either perfect or on the road to Hell. I have no problem understanding that the most godly people in the world are still contaminated with sin.

But 2 Corinthians 7:1 says you can. It says let us cleanse ourselves from ALL filthiness of the flesh and spirit. Note: For the purposes of this thread section here, I am going to refer to ALL as in reference to “death sins” and not “non-death sins.”

I don't know what you mean by "death sins" and "non-death sins?" All sin leads to death. But when we're cleansed continuously by the grace of God, we can live righteous lives and continually overcome the corrupt flesh.

As for Galatians 5:24: Do you believe that they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts? You basically are telling me (by the use of other words) that believers will not stop sinning this side of Heaven (i.e. Note: For the purposes of this thread section, I am referring to “death sins,” and not Sinless Perfectionism).

Why are you not referring to "Sinless Perfectionism?" Isn't that what you're claiming to be? Perhaps you can think you may sin, and then need to return to Sinless Perfection with every act of contrition?

But I believe we have Sin embedded in our flesh, and have to live with it, constantly putting it under our feet. At the same time righteousness is reigning in us, because sin can't stop it, and it defeats the sin that would take its place.

You are seriously misreading 1 John 1:10.

It says:

“If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:10).​

It says “if we say that we have not sinned,...”
It does not say.... “we all have sinned as a part of our past Christian life.”

No, I'm not misreading 1 John 1. Any student of Bible interpretation knows that words must be understood *in their context.* I'm providing context, along with common sense.

John is talking to Christians with regard to the consistency of their lives. He acknowledges that we are always fighting a war with sin, and refers us to the cleansing power of Christ. This is Christian experience, and there is zero reference to someone's pre-Christian past!
 
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I didn't say we can't be cleansed on this earth! My argument was that we can be cleansed, but not made perfect. The cleansing process is going on all the time because we are always contaminated with sin.

Can you give me a description or examples of what it means to be contaminated with sin in a believer’s life? How is this different than say the unbeliever who sins?

You said:
To you you're either perfect or on the road to Hell.

Actually, no. I don’t believe that. But I do believe we have to eventually overcome sins that lead unto death or we are not going to make it into the Kingdom.

You said:
I have no problem understanding that the most godly people in the world are still contaminated with sin.

Actually the Bible is where we get our faith. So the Bible should be our standard on godly people and not by our looking at others around us. So you need to prove your case with the Bible that godly people are contaminated with sin. You also need to explain what the definition is for the phrase “contaminated with sin” means for a godly person, and give us some biblical examples of that.

Do they commit sins unto death every day?
Do they commit sins unto death every week?
Are they lying, cheating, stealing, and fornicating only sometimes?

You said:
I don't know what you mean by "death sins" and "non-death sins?" All sin leads to death.

Not true, my friend. The Bible says:

“If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.” (1 John 5:16-17).

In context, “the sin not unto death” would be sins that a believer is confessing with the intention of overcoming that particular sin. In context, his fellow brethren are praying for this believer so that he may have victory or life in overcoming this sin.

There are other sins not unto death.
In Matthew 5:22 we learn that Jesus teaches us about sins that do not lead to death and a sin that does lead to death by the type of punishment involved.

“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother
or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court;
and whoever speaks
[contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother,
‘Raca
(You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the
supreme court
(Sanhedrin); and whoever says,
‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell
.”
(Matthew 5:22) (AMP).​

The words in blue above are “sins not unto death” because they are the kind of sins that lead to punishment in earthly courts, but the words in red above is a “sin unto death” because it involves punishment in the afterlife in fiery hell.

You said:
But when we're cleansed continuously by the grace of God, we can live righteous lives and continually overcome the corrupt flesh.

What action do you take in order to be cleansed continuously by the grace of God?
What do you mean by a righteous life?
What do you mean by continually overcome the corrupt flesh?

Can you answer these questions using the Bible?

You said:
Why are you not referring to "Sinless Perfectionism?" Isn't that what you're claiming to be? Perhaps you can think you may sin, and then need to return to Sinless Perfection with every act of contrition?

It’s not allowed to be discussed at length or promoted in this section of the forums.
So I cannot reply to this without violating the rules in the forum.

You said:
But I believe we have Sin embedded in our flesh, and have to live with it, constantly putting it under our feet. At the same time righteousness is reigning in us, because sin can't stop it, and it defeats the sin that would take its place.

So are you saying that a believer can be righteous even while they may sin?

You said:
No, I'm not misreading 1 John 1. Any student of Bible interpretation knows that words must be understood *in their context.* I'm providing context, along with common sense.

No. You did not provide any context for proving your case that 1 John 1:10 is referring only to the Christian’s life of sin. For one, the verse does not even say that. Care to quote 1 John 1:10 and offer a word for word commentary on it by offering some context? My guess is that you really cannot do that without twisting the text beyond recognition. So yeah. I am not really expecting you to give an answer on this because what you stated is simply on there in the text.

You said:
John is talking to Christians with regard to the consistency of their lives. He acknowledges that we are always fighting a war with sin, and refers us to the cleansing power of Christ. This is Christian experience, and there is zero reference to someone's pre-Christian past!

1 John 1:10 is in reference to a believer’s pre-Christian life because 1 John 5:4 says, “whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world” and 1 John 5:18-19 says, “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”

“Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.” (Ephesians 2:2-3).

Sin is merely transgression of the Law or commandment (See: 1 John 3:4).
The person who says they know the Lord and yet they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4). So if a believer breaks God’s commands and yet he or she also keeps some of them, can we honestly say that they are truly keeping His commandments?

I think Matthew 13:41-42 should put the fear of God in every believer if they were to ever closely read it. It is saying that the Son of Man (JESUS) shall send forth His angels and they shall gather out of HIS kingdom (Christ’s Kingdom) all things that offend and who do iniquity (sin) and they shall be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). In other words, a believer can be in the Kingdom but later be cast out into the lake of fire on account of their justifying grievous sin on some level.

Anyways, I say all this in love and with the hope that you might see a little of where I am coming from.

May you be blessed in the Lord (even if we disagree on God’s Word).
 
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prophecy_uk

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This is to highlight for everyone, about the topic, the standard of righteousness.


It has to be Gods testimonies, His will, or it is mans will and a very wrong testimony.


Look at the comparison, here in Deuteronomy 29:2-4, the children of Israel saw all the great miracles God did in Egypt, the great temptations, the signs, but the Lord also did not give them the way to keep it in the heart, for belief, by not giving them a heart to perceive, or eyes to see ( see in the Spirit inside which lights up the darkness in us) or ears to hear with ( hear the testimony of God not man)...



Deuteronomy 29:2 And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the Lord did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land;
3 The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles:
4 Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.



See the same occur, the light was with Israel, and when Jesus was gone, they are only in darkness ( as there was no light in them Isaiah 8:20 without the testimony OF CHRIST).

We are required to believe in the light ( but man cannot comprehend the light, cannot understand Jesus the Spirit of Christ ,without the Spirit of Christ in man to understand/believe with as is the only light).

Jesus hid from the men of Israel, as it is repeated again, He did many miracles among them, ( as done in Egypt) yet they could not believe ( could not have faith in Jesus) could not believe the report without it being revealed by the Lord, and also they could not believe, as their eyes were blinded and the heart very much hardened, to not see with their eyes nor understand with that heart.


Conversion is needed ( this is sanctification) as it is healing, sins forgiven to heal or you continue on in your uncleanness and illness/ to die in your sins therefore.

Many believed in their own way, but they could not make true confession, loving the praise of men, than the praise of God ( this is how men of this world are)..



Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 12:35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:

John 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.




Deuteronomy 29:2-4, mentioned the temptations, the twelve Apostles continued with the Son of God in His temptations, as Chist appointed them the Kingdom ( of Heaven) to be the twelve thrones of Israel..



Luke 22:28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.



Jesus knows who believes, because no man can come to Him (believe) without it being given to that man from the Father, but the twelve cant go away like the many disciples who went away as His word had no place in them, and John 8, confirms when His word has no place in them, then instead of it being given by the Father to go to Him, they are then known to be of their father the devil to go away to him, because they prefer lies to the Spirit of truth, and darkness than to light, because their way of doing deeds is by doing evil....



John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.



Jesus above in John 6:64-70, chose the twelve, but also had to choose a devil, to fulfil the betrayal. But below in John 15:16, Jesus chose the twelve to be ordained, from which Judas fell by transgression, and then also God chose Paul to know His will, to see Christ and to hear the voice of His mouth ( on top of choosing another to be that twelth Apostle) and Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles..



John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.




Now, as explained for us, they needed to hear to believe, to have the Gospel preached to the poor, to be seeing, hearing, and not be offended in Christ ( as then there is no justification by faith, as they need to hear the Gospel and receive it without being offended in Christ/ His word to have a place in them by the soft heart to perceive given).

But they did not all obey the Gospel ( were offended in it/not justified/sanctified) they could not believe the report, but they did hear, as the sound went into all the earth, the words unto the ends of the world, but hearing came by the word of God and they heard this worlds words instead, to do evil and not the good( to be filthy and uncleanness, and not Holy as the Lord is Holy)..



Matthew 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.
6 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.




Now, that testimony is not only for Israel, as it is proven, both Jews and Gentiles, are testified as, none being righteous, not one, nine that understand, none that seek after God ( no faith) all are gone OUT OF THE WAY, ( God shall both seek and search out His sheep as it is His faith not ours) and none do good, not one, as all tongues use deceit, with poison of asps, with cursing and bitterness ( hiding the cursing by blessing with the mouth but not the heart) as they know not this way of peace, as "How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things" ( of Christ)..



Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.



Romans 3:9-18, ends on noting, that there is no fear of God before their eyes ( of all man on earth, Jews and Gentiles) and then we see how God says, He will make with the world the everlasting covenant, so God never turns away from us again, to do us good ( everlasting goodness) by placing that fear ( His fear is Spirit) into our hearts so we do not depart from God( as the twelve Disciples answered to Christ they had nowhere to go as revealed to them He has the words of eternal life)..


Jeremiah 32:40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.

Isaiah 11:2 And the spirit of the Lord shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord;





Now we know that the Spirit of fear needed to be given, and we know the heart had to be given to perceive with, ( eyes to see with ears to hear with given too) and this is why faith works by ,love ( not mans love that is hatred, but Gods love shed into our hearts then the darkness of man becomes light of the Lord).

The world cannot receive that Spirit of truth, but God reveals all to us by that Spirit, and no man knows the ( deep) things of God but the Spirit of God, and we receive the Spirit of God, to know the things that are freely given of God ( the free gift which is all things given as we have nothing any good/all our righteousness is filthy rags/no faith in evil men) and the natural non chosen man receives not the things of God, as they re foolishness to him, neither can he know them, they are spiritually discerned ( to believe in Christ with) and we need to be given all, as we have nothing that we did not receive and all are equal given the mind of Christ, and the law of Christ written in the new heart by the Spirit of Christ..




John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?




We need to have the Spirit of faith, as faith is given by the Spirit, as a fruit of the Spirit is faith, and thrigh the Spirit we wait for the hope of righteousness by faith ( by the faith of Christ who loved us and gave Himself for us) as the life we now live we live by the faith of the Son of God....



1 Corinthians 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;


Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
 
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prophecy_uk

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BibleHighlighter: “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.” (1 John 5:16-17).

In context, “the sin not unto death” would be sins that a believer is confessing with the intention of overcoming that particular sin. In context, his fellow brethren are praying for this believer so that he may have victory or life in overcoming this sin.

There are other sins not unto death."



BibleHighlighter, you are an intelligent person, so you then would recognize, that this is a very essential part of your allowance for some sins to be acceptable, as you say there is no salvation to the ones doing sin unto death ( more serious sins)

Even Randy knows sin is sin, and as you quoted yourself, that sin is the transgression of the law. That alone shows sin is equal, that what breaks the law, is not keeping the law, and then it is well know we are required to also keep the righteousness of the law, and also of course, if we break one ( not fulfilling it all, we are GUILTY OF ALL..


James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.


Remember, we need to have the Spirit of God, to understand the ( deep) things of God, given to us freely by God. I can explain these verses for us.



First look where this comes from, John 15:7 requires us to abide in Christ and His words abiding in us, t ask what we will and it be done to us..

John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


Next, this opens up the understanding to see, that we then ( by abiding in the Son and the Son/Word in us) ask according to His will ( this is asking what we will) as we know by the Spirit given into us, that He hears us, and we petition by praying for another, when we see they are yet in ignorance ( which is not unto death) but the soul that sins presumptiously, sins unto their own death, which of course why would I pray for that.

Now, to be innocent from the great transgression ( to not have sin any longer dominion over us) we are kept back by God from presumptious sins.


Paul is the example for us, so see it, how Paul before was a blasphemer, but obtained this same mercy, as it was done by unbelief in ignorance ( so this is for the brother who does not know how to believe in righteousness yet)


Numbers 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the Lord, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

Numbers 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Psalm 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1 John 5:14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


Now, all unrighteousness is sin BibleHighlighter, and the ones born of God do not do any unrighteousness ( sin) as the wicked one is gone away unable to touch them as Christ is the stronger in there now ( in man)..



1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.






BibleHighlighter: "In Matthew 5:22 we learn that Jesus teaches us about sins that do not lead to death and a sin that does lead to death by the type of punishment involved.

“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother
or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court;
and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother,
‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the
supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says,
‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell.”
(Matthew 5:22) (AMP).

The words in blue above are “sins not unto death” because they are the kind of sins that lead to punishment in earthly courts, but the words in red above is a “sin unto death” because it involves punishment in the afterlife in fiery hell."




Nice interpretation, of a Jewish court.

But, continue down to verses, 25-26, and we see all Jesus was talking about was OUR ADVERSARY, who delivers man to the judge, and the officer cast you into prison. There is no coming out of that prison ( not an earthly one at all)

Matthew 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Matthew 13: 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.


It is too easy to know, the adversary is the devil, who tempts us, then we go to the judge of all living ( God) who said who the officers of Himself are, His angels to cast us, the offenders into hell for doing and believing it is permitted to do iniquity, into the furnace of fire we never come out of.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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To all:

Many today teach that all sin is the same.
But this is not what the Bible teaches.

Not all sin is the same:

#1. There is a sin unto death, there is a sin not unto death (1 John 5:16-17).
#2. Jesus says there is a greater sin (John 19:11).
#3. Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4), and Jesus said that the Pharisees ignored the weightier matters of the Law (Matthew 23:23, Luke 11:42).
#4. Accidental manslaughter and being able to flee to cities of refuge (Deuteronomy 19:1-13); Contrast this with intentional murder which results in capital punishment (See: Deuteronomy 19:21, Numbers 35:31).
#5. The wickedness was so bad in Noah's time that God destroyed the whole world with a global flood; And the sin at Sodom and Gomorrah was so bad that it was destroyed by fire from heaven. Surely the flood would not have happened if sin was not so bad in Noah's day, and Sodom and Gomorrah would not have been destroyed if it was not so perverse. Other cities that were pagan had obviously sinned, but they were not as grievous as the sin at Sodom and Gomorrah.
#6. Unintentional Sins could be atoned for by certain types of offerings, and yet high handed sins could not be atoned for in this way (See: Numbers 15:22-31).
#7. There are unforgivable sins like blasphemy of the Spirit (Matthew 12:32), and worshiping the beast (Revelation 13:8) (Revelation 17:8).
#8. Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Spirit and they were instantly killed, and yet (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11), Simon the sorcerer was not killed when he tried to offer money for the Spirit; For Simon was told by Peter that he could pray and hope that he may be forgiven for what he had done (Acts of the Apostles 8:9-24). No threat to Paul's standing with God was ever made when he did not listen to the Spirit's warnings in going to Jerusalem; Although he knew he would be in prison if he decided to go (Acts of the Apostles 21:1-6, Acts of the Apostles 20:22-23) which is exactly what happened to him (by which he later regretted such imprisonment - Acts of the Apostles 26:29). So not all forms of disobedience or sin merits the same form of punishment.
 
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DaDaBrothers

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righteousness is reigning in us, because sin can't stop it, and it defeats the sin that would take its place

Hey Randy consider this verse :
James 1:14-15 but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

I think you are refering to "sin" to express the words "tempted", "enticed" by your own lust. In that case, I guess you can be a just man and still get tempted, enticed by your own lusts, what you cannot do however, is sin. The moment you sin you are not walking in the light because sin is the breaking of the law, if you break the law even once, you are guilty of all and are considered a law-breaker who belongs in the furnace.
You can get tempted, but you cannot sin.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
 
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Brightfame52

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The blood of Christ does not cleanse anyone until they have exhibited faith. Because grace comes through faith. Faith does not come through (or after) grace. You cannot be justified without the grace of God, and grace is received AFTER faith is demonstrated.
False statement. When Christ took His seath at the right hand of God He had purged away the sins of them He died for Heb 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

That word purged means:
  1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ, which equates to Justification from their sins.
 
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My argument was that we can be cleansed, but not made perfect.

While I am not talking about Sinless Perfection here (in being perfect in every way) (See “side note” below), the Bible does actually speak about how we can be perfect in certain areas of our life.

I will refer you to the verses again back in my post #25 to you.
Please carefully reconsider what these verses say.
Slowly read them and accept them plainly in what they say.


Side Note:

Again, just so that you may know: The topic of Sinless Perfection is not allowed to be discussed at length and or promoted in this section of the forums without it violating the forum rules.
 
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DaDaBrothers

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when he had by himself purged our sins
"purged our sins" is talking about ALL sin, of us ALL, in the whole world, for ever.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This means His blood is enough to cleanse the whole world. But not everyone will be saved.
So in that sense, not everyone will be cleansed, even tho He destroyed all sin.

In order to be cleansed you must walk in the light and confess:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is why first you believe in Jesus, then you are cleansed/saved.
 
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Brightfame52

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"purged our sins" is talking about ALL sin, of us ALL, in the whole world, for ever.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

This means His blood is enough to cleanse the whole world. But not everyone will be saved.
So in that sense, not everyone will be cleansed, even tho He destroyed all sin.

In order to be cleansed you must walk in the light and confess:
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is why first you believe in Jesus, then you are cleansed/saved.
I know what purge sins means, and those whom Christ died have had their sins purged, they are gone forever. They are Justified from them.
 
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DaDaBrothers

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those whom Christ died

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

So is everyone justified? They could be, Jesus did destroyed sin, but not everyone will be saved, so how is it that if the whole world is justifed, not everyone will be justified at the end?

That is when faith comes in, you must believe on Him, love Him, know Him, and abide in Him. And only after this will you be given your already accomplished justification.
 
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