throughfiierytrial

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Ex 11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that "the LORD doth put a difference between the Nations and Israel".
(NOTE: The LORD put a difference between the Nations/gentiles/dogs & Israel His chosen people) BTW: The same LORD later refers to the gentile/Canaanite woman as a dog. Gentiles were viewed as unclean dogs, bastards, outside of covenant seals)

Ex 19:
3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
(NOTE: God tells Moses, say to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel! Gentiles had/have NO PART in this law covenant)

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
(MY NOTE: Law of Moses was given to: The house of Jacob/children of Israel (reread vs 3)

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
(MY NOTE: When Moses gives the law to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel: They ALL AGREED, to the words the Lord had spoken)

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
(MY NOTE: Circumcision: A blood covenant made with hands & required under Mosaic law)

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(MY NOTE: Gentiles referred to as the Uncircumcision (vs 11) were without God, having no covenant promises & a hopeless future)

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(MY NOTE: But, NOW! = Post death & resurrection/new Melchizedek covenant. Believing gentiles are no longer bastards outside of covenant seals)

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves
(MY PARSING NOTE: Gentiles were never under/having the Mosaic law)

Council at Jerusalem
Acts 15:
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
(MY NOTE: Jews try to place gentiles under Mosaic law)

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
(NOTE: These Christ rejecting/unregenerated Pharisees claimed gentile believers needed to be circumcised & commanded them to keep the law of Moses).

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
(NOTE: Peter revisits his trip to Cornelius house (Acts 10). And how by word of mouth gentiles believed on Christ's sin payment & resurrection. Were gentiles received Christ's eternal salvation sealing baptism with His indwelling Holy Spirit)

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(NOTE: These gentiles heard about Christ's sin payment & resurrection. They believed: NO repentance, water baptism, circumcision, they brought no sin sacrifice to the Temple, No Mosaic law keeping etc. Thru faith & faith alone they were eternally sealed with God's indwelling Holy Spirit)

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(NOTE: Gentiles hearts were Purified by water? NO! Purified by the Holy Spirit via Faith)

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(NOTE: Peter say's neither our forefathers, nor us, could bear the yoke, of keeping the law of Moses with fidelity)

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
(NOTE: Peter proclaims God has showed us, ALL, are saved by grace thru faith just as we've been)

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
(NOTE: The apostles send letters to all the gentile believing churches in Antioch, Syria & Cilicia.)

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
(NOTE: The letters written & sent by Christ chosen apostles. Telling the gentiles you are not, nor were you ever, required to be circumcised or keep Mosaic law)
Matthew 5:17-20:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Through faith in Christ we do not nullify the Law but rather uphold it. Through our faith we are credited with righteousness which surpasses the old way...keeping the letter of the Law. The Law is only upheld through faith in Christ and living by the Spirit.
 
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BrotherJJ

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Matthew 5:17-20:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Through faith in Christ we do not nullify the Law but rather uphold it. Through our faith we are credited with righteousness which surpasses the old way...keeping the letter of the Law. The Law is only upheld through faith in Christ and living by the Spirit.

OP Headline:
Gentiles aren't now & never were under Mosaic law.

Post #62 & 83 in this thread speak directly to what you posted.
 
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Matthew 5:17-20:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Through faith in Christ we do not nullify the Law but rather uphold it. Through our faith we are credited with righteousness which surpasses the old way...keeping the letter of the Law. The Law is only upheld through faith in Christ and living by the Spirit.

You must keep in mind when Jesus spoke these words and to whom. He was speaking to the Jews prior to His crucifixion. After Jesus was crucified He sent the Holy Spirit who will guide believers into all truth.

The second covenant does away with the law. Romans 7:4, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." and many other places. That is the basis of the New Covenant,

You can't be under law and under grace. It's one or the other.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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You must keep in mind when Jesus spoke these words and to whom. He was speaking to the Jews prior to His crucifixion. After Jesus was crucified He sent the Holy Spirit who will guide believers into all truth.

The second covenant does away with the law. Romans 7:4, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." and many other places. That is the basis of the New Covenant,

You can't be under law and under grace. It's one or the other.
Gentiles, however, are not believers and so they remain under the Law. We, who are believers, have salvation through faith; we are made perfect, credited with righteousness, and live our lives for Christ not being any longer under OT Law...so we do not nullify the Law, but rather uphold the Law in that "new way"of the Spirit...Romans 7:6>
 
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Strong in Him

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Gentiles, however, are not believers and so they remain under the Law.

Jews would say that Gentiles - i.e non Jews - were not believers.
We would say that Jews were not believers because they have not accepted Jesus, their Messiah.

Christians are Gentiles and are not under Jewish law, which in any case, Jesus came to fulfil.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Jews would say that Gentiles - i.e non Jews - were not believers.
We would say that Jews were not believers because they have not accepted Jesus, their Messiah.

Christians are Gentiles and are not under Jewish law, which in any case, Jesus came to fulfil.
It is true that Christians are made up of Jews and Gentiles...the Bible continues to use the word gentiles to refer to unbelievers...i.e....Ephesians 4:17; Galatians 2:14. etc
Those not under grace...all unbelievers...will be judged by the Law...
Matthew 5:18:
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Romans 2:12:
12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. ETC
 
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Strong in Him

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It is true that Christians are made up of Jews and Gentiles...the Bible continues to use the word gentiles to refer to unbelievers...

My understanding is that Gentiles is a word that refers to non Jews - so, by definition, all Christians are Gentiles. Christianity started out as a Jewish sect.

Matthew 5:18:
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

The law won't disappear, but that doesn't mean that Jesus' followers have to live under it.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Jews would say that Gentiles - i.e non Jews - were not believers.
We would say that Jews were not believers because they have not accepted Jesus, their Messiah.

Christians are Gentiles and are not under Jewish law, which in any case, Jesus came to fulfil.
Jesus fulfilled the Law which frees us of our sin when we believe and are credited with righteousness. One does not grab hold of this freedom without faith.

Also where I just previously posted that Christians are made up of Jews and gentiles alike, I was meaning to state believing Jews and not unbelieving Jews.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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My understanding is that Gentiles is a word that refers to non Jews - so, by definition, all Christians are Gentiles. Christianity started out as a Jewish sect.



The law won't disappear, but that doesn't mean that Jesus' followers have to live under it.
Of course Christianity has Jewish roots...the entire Bible speaks of the promise to them.
No...Jesus' followers are freed from the OT letter of the Law. We uphold the Law...letter of the Law...apostle Paul writes in Romans...by living to please the Spirit and putting to death the acts of the flesh.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Jesus fulfilled the Law which frees us of our sin when we believe and are credited with righteousness. One does not grab hold of this freedom without faith.

Also where I just previously posted that Christians are made up of Jews and gentiles alike, I was meaning to state believing Jews and not unbelieving Jews.
While Christendom is made up of Jewish converts and gentiles alike I am not saying that God any longer makes that distinction as Scripture clearly states...we are now all one and all equal in Christ.
 
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Of course Christianity has Jewish roots...the entire Bible speaks of the promise to them.
No...Jesus' followers are freed from the OT letter of the Law. We uphold the Law...letter of the Law...apostle Paul writes in Romans...by living to please the Spirit and putting to death the acts of the flesh.

How is "law" being defined in this thread?

If it means all the food and hygiene laws given to Moses; I don't believe we were ever under those, therefore we can't bee freed from them.
If it means the 10 commandments; Jesus summed those up as "love God and love your neighbour." He also commanded us to love as he loves, and told us to love even our enemies. We are to obey the laws/commands that he gave us.
 
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AND ??? ...

And that was my reply to post #101 that you directed to me.

Additional context:

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

(MY NOTE to the above verses: Jesus is the testor. His death retires the old Mosaic covenant (Matt 27:51, Mk 15:38, Lk 23:45). His resurrection begins the new Melchizedek covenant

The Matt 5: verses you shared were pre sin's required law fulfilment. Jesus death fulfills the laws requirement for sin & retires the Mosaic Levitical system (that no gentile was ever nor is now under).

Jesus resurrection begins a new covenant with new laws. Time to leave the old (physical) OBSOLETE Mosaic/Moses centered covenant. And embrace the New Eternal (Heb 9:12 & 15) Spiritual Christ centered one.
 
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Gentiles, however, are not believers and so they remain under the Law. We, who are believers, have salvation through faith; we are made perfect, credited with righteousness, and live our lives for Christ not being any longer under OT Law...so we do not nullify the Law, but rather uphold the Law in that "new way"of the Spirit...Romans 7:6>

So you're a Jew? That's the only conclusion possible when you write that Gentiles, however, are not believers and so they remain under the Law. We, who are believers, have salvation through faith...
 
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My understanding is that Gentiles is a word that refers to non Jews - so, by definition, all Christians are Gentiles. Christianity started out as a Jewish sect.

The law won't disappear, but that doesn't mean that Jesus' followers have to live under it.

Your definition is wrong. Both Jews and Gentiles can be Christians. All the apostles were Jews as were the earliest believers. Gentiles came into the faith years later.

I am a Jew and also a Christian.
 
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Your definition is wrong. Both Jews and Gentiles can be Christians.

Yes, I know.
But would a Jew consider that a fellow Jew who became a Christian had deserted the faith, was outside it and the equivalent of a Gentile? I think that's what I meant.

I am a Jew and also a Christian.

Sorry, I hope I didn't offend; I think I worded it badly.
I've read a few books by Jews who became believers; they were amazing.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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So you're a Jew? That's the only conclusion possible when you write that Gentiles, however, are not believers and so they remain under the Law. We, who are believers, have salvation through faith...
Biblically speaking, yes, or rather, just Christians...all alike. But we were grafted into the olive tree...the tree representing the believing Jews in Romans.
 
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Yes, I know.
But would a Jew consider that a fellow Jew who became a Christian had deserted the faith, was outside it and the equivalent of a Gentile? I think that's what I meant.



Sorry, I hope I didn't offend; I think I worded it badly.
I've read a few books by Jews who became believers; they were amazing.

You didn't offend. Quite a few people think that Jews can't be Christians, forgetting of course that the earliest believers were Jews, with very few exceptions, such as Luke and Cornelius.
 
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You didn't offend. Quite a few people think that Jews can't be Christians, forgetting of course that the earliest believers were Jews, with very few exceptions, such as Luke and Cornelius.

I do believe that Jews can be Christians; I was just meaning that from their fellow Jews' point of view, they may have become as Gentiles.
 
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I do believe that Jews can be Christians; I was just meaning that from their fellow Jews' point of view, they may have become as Gentiles.

That's the point of view of some Jews, perhaps, but not all. Judaism is vast and complicated; beliefs vary all over the place.
 
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