About the red dragon being chained in the abyss for 1000 years

sovereigngrace · Aug 31, 2021

Michael Collum said:
So about that passage in Revelation about the devil being chained into the abyss for 1000 years.

I've heard the idea that the period where the devil is chained (figuratively) is right now.

One conflicting thought I've had about this idea is the following bit of scripture:

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Because the nations are still acting deceived, this event cannot have happened yet, and cannot be now. Therefore, the idea that the time is now, is incorrect by basis of "fruit."

Since Jesus said we can know if a prophecy (even of the end) is true or false by it's fruit, this should matter. However, it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't.

Discussing whether there is or isn't a millennium is off topic.

Good question!

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (or ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

We need to establish what we are looking at first before we jump to conclusions.

Firstly, who are "the nations" here?

Significantly, the Greek word interpreted “nations” in Revelation 20 in the King James Version is the Greek ethnos which is repeatedly translated "Gentiles" throughout the whole of the New Testament. In essence it means the nations, the heathen, or the non-Jews. The word is rendered Gentiles in the following passages: Matthew 4:15, 6:32, 10:5, 18, 12:18, 21, 20:19, 25, 21:43, Mark 10:33, 42, Luke 2:32, 18:32, 21:24, 22:25, Acts 4:27, 7:45, 9:15, 10:45, 11:1, 18, 13:46, 47, 48, 14:2, 5, 27, 15:3, 7, 12, 14, 17, 19, 23, 18:6, 21:11, 19, 21, 25, 22:21, 26:17, 20, 23, Romans 1:13, 2:14, 24, 3:29, 9:24, 30, 11:11, 12, 13, 25, 15:9, 10, 11, 12, 16, 18, 27, 16:4, 1 Corinthians 5:1, 12:2, Galatians 2:2, 8, 12, 14, 15, 3:14, Ephesians 2:11, 3:1, 6, 8, 4:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 Thessalonians 2:16, 4:5, 1 Timothy 2:7, 3:16, 2 Timothy 4:17, 1 Peter 2:12, 4:3, Revelation 11:2.

Secondly, what was/is the purpose of the binding of Satan?

According to Revelation 20:2, the binding of Satan was all to do with the enlightening of the nations (Gentiles). In the light of this, was there any direct and major change in regard to the spiritual state of the nations (Gentiles) that resulted from Satan’s defeat 2,000 years ago or is that still future?

Was there any significant change in the Gospel focus that occurred as a result of the life, death and resurrection of Christ? Was there any benefit? Was there any increase in the scope of the light shining? Was there a major turnaround in the state of the Gentiles between the Old and the New Testament? Was there any notable change in regard to the degree of ignorance and deception that curtailed the Gentiles?

Before we answer that: we should identify the general spiritual standing of both Israel and the Gentiles before God in the Old Testament and contrast that to their general spiritual standing before God in the New Testament. Repeated Old Testament and New Testament Scripture contrast the state of the "nation" (singular) Israel to the nations (plural) – the Gentiles.

Many forget that there has been a seismic change in regard to the Gospel opportunity since the First Advent specifically in regard to the nations. Before the cross the Gentiles were in blind ignorance, deceived by the father of lies. After the resurrection, the Gentiles were no longer deceived as the Gospel light shone throughout the nations. The veil of ignorance was lifted. They are now without excuse. Satan had them hoodwinked. They lay in darkness. He ruled the nations before the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. He had them under his control.

During the Old Testament era, God controlled one single nation whereas Satan controlled the nations (ethnos - the Gentiles) plural.

God’s special people

Deuteronomy 7:6-8 confirms, “God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.”

Deuteronomy 14:2 declares: “the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.”

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 tells us: “For the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.”

2 Samuel 7:23-24 says: “what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible.”

Psalm 147:19-20: “He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation.”

Amos 3:2 confirms this, saying of Israel: “You only have I known of all the families of the earth.”

Before the resurrection, Christ commanded His disciples in Matthew 10:5-7, “Go not into the way of the Gentiles (ethnos), and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Acts 14:16 confirms that God “in times past suffered all nations (ethnos) to walk in their own ways.”

Acts 17:30 says, “And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.”

Imprisonment, blindness, darkness, hopelessness and ignorance are always tied together in Scripture, specially to describe the state of the Gentiles before the cross.

Ephesians 2:11-13 confirms this, saying, “ye being in time past Gentiles (ethnos) in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.”

The Scriptures often depict the Gentiles in the Old Testament as deceived, without hope, blinded, ignorant and darkened. The Bible repeatedly describes the Gentiles in the New Testament as enlightened. That does not suggest that all were blind in the Old Testament or that all will be enlightened in the New Testament. These are simply sweeping generalities establishing the Gospel climate in either era. The widespread light didn’t shine on the nations throughout the Old Testament. Today, it does exist as the Gospel is preached throughout the nations. Before the cross, the Gospel was largely withheld from the nations. After the cross, the Gospel spread like wildfire throughout the globe. Like Israel in the Old Testament, the Gentiles in the New Testament have now had the light shone on them through the great commission.

The nations belonged to Satan

This truth is seen in Matthew 4:8-9 where “the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.”

During the temptations of Christ in the desert, Satan offers Jesus the world if He would only bow down before him. Satan was well within his rights to make such an offer since Adam handed over world dominion to him when he allowed himself to be subject to Satan's will.

The parallel passage in Luke 4:5-7 says: “And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.”

Manifestly, through Adam’s sin, Satan was able to present a legitimate temptation to Christ. The fact the devil had the capability to tempt the Lord with this enticement proves he enjoyed authority over the nations that had to be broken. Ultimately, God permitted Satan to have this authority. But it was Adam that relinquished this rule over the earth in the Fall. After all, this was a definite and a real legitimate temptation. The devil had huge power over this world.

Matthew 4:10 records, “Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.”

The Lord would not win the nations by bowing down to Satan, but by dying on the cross. Christ defeats Satan on the grounds of the Word of God. Christ here quotes Deuteronomy 6:13.

God’s heart was to reach the Gentile nations!

Right from the book of Genesis, God promised Abraham in Genesis 17:5-6: “a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.”

Isaiah 2:2 says, “And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it."

Micah 4:1 similarly says, speaking of the Lord’s first Advent, “in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.”

The answer to darkness every time is light. Isaiah 42:6-7, 10, says, “I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house … Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof.”

The Gentiles sat in darkness (outside of God's plan of salvation with a few occasional exceptions) prior to the cross, after the cross salvation visited the nations and light shone in darkness. The light has been shining on the nations for near 2,000 years – the darkness has been dispelled. The deception is gone and the truth is available, however, whilst the general deception has been lifted and the Gospel opportunity is now available to the Gentiles, individuals must personal take a hold of Christ for salvation to be a reality.

Isaiah 60:1-3 says, “Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.”

Even with these general statements, when Scripture speaks of the enlightenment of the Gentiles it doesn’t suggest that every individual Gentile will be saved. No. It is demonstrating that this grouping that was once outside of the Gospel message, and therefore hope, would now be subjected to the light of truth. Anyway, Satan and demons don't deceive nations, they deceive people within the nations. Satan and demons don't inhabit nations, they inhabit people within the nations. Before Christ’s earthy ministry there was a blanket of deception over the Gentiles. Entire nations were deceived. That is no longer the case. Satan fell from high and lofty place.

Isaiah 61:1 says, “The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.”

The Old Testament prophets predicted the enlightenment of the Gentiles before Christ began His earthly ministry!

Zacharias the father of John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Ghost in Luke 1:78-80 and prophesied: “Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.”

Here is the enlightenment of the Gentiles. This is speaking about the great commission and this current intra-Advent period.

Simeon acknowledged in Luke 2:30-32 says: “For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel."

Prior to Christ’s earthly ministry believers knew that the Gospel was going to go the Gentiles.

sovereigngrace · Aug 31, 2021

Michael Collum said:
So about that passage in Revelation about the devil being chained into the abyss for 1000 years.

I've heard the idea that the period where the devil is chained (figuratively) is right now.

One conflicting thought I've had about this idea is the following bit of scripture:

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Because the nations are still acting deceived, this event cannot have happened yet, and cannot be now. Therefore, the idea that the time is now, is incorrect by basis of "fruit."

Since Jesus said we can know if a prophecy (even of the end) is true or false by it's fruit, this should matter. However, it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't.

Discussing whether there is or isn't a millennium is off topic.

Jesus ministry

John 8:12 "Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."

John 12:46 "I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. "

Matthew 4:13-16 records: “leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.”

John 1:1 "In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.”

Jesus said in John 1:10-12: “He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.”

Did all the Jews reject Him? No! This is another generality!

Matthew here refers to Isaiah 9:1-2. The light began to shine began to shine bright through the earthly ministry of Christ, it spread out to the darkened nations after the cross through the great commission. Truth was boldly preached and ignorance was removed from the Gentiles.

There was a large effectual door of opportunity opened up after Christ’s mission to earth that involved evangelizing the darkened heathen ethnos (or Gentile nations) for the first time. This was a complete change of focus and a notable widening out of the racial target-group. From a near totally Jewish Church, to a near totally Gentile Church, was a massive change of fortunes. The door of opportunity was closed to every Gentile village, town, city and nation before the cross outside of one city - Nineveh.

The reaching out to the Gentiles coincided with Israel’s overwhelming rejection of Christ and His liberating message.

Mark 11:13-14 records something, “seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever.”

Did Christ curse this fig tree simply to prove His deity? Did He do it for no obvious reason? Or was He impressing some great spiritual truth upon His disciples in regard to natural Israel?

This was not some pointless irrelevant act to prove Christ’s deity or omnipotence; it was an object lesson in regard to Israel. The fig tree symbolically represents the physical nation of Israel whereas the Olive tree represents the spiritual people of Israel. When Christ cursed the fig tree He was demonstrating the removing of the exclusive theocratic favour of God from the physical nation of Israel, whereas, the other will exist forever. Never again will God’s favour be restricted to a physical temporal earthly nation, but rather to a spiritual eternal heavenly nation.

After this the Lord significantly headed straight for the very epicentre of the Jewish religion – the temple – and overturned the tables, demonstrating that He had had enough with their religious hypocrisy and stubborn rebellion.

Verse 15-17 in the KJV says, “they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations (ethnos) the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.”

Jesus said in Matthew 21:33-41, “There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen (natural Israel), and went into a far country: And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen (the Gentiles), which shall render him the fruits in their seasons."

He continues: “Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof” (Matthew 21:42-43).

A careful analysis of this passage undoubtedly reveals the person and power of the Lord Jesus Christ, who is here described as “this Stone.” The reading succinctly outlines the contrast between God’s dealings with His elect and that of the wicked. It is Him alone who breaks the stubborn will of man in salvation and brings him into perfect union with an offended God. For those who reject God’s only provision for sin, they meet Him as judge and are crushed.

Isaiah 11:10 says, “And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will seek Christ? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Isaiah 42:6-7 says, “I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Habakkuk 2:14 says, “For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.”

Does that mean all Gentiles will be enlightened? Of course not. It is a general statement like Revelation 20.

Great commission

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations (ethnos), baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Acts 1:8 "ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

This was a big change from the Old Testament arrangement.

With the global spread of Gospel truth, the Gentiles have been given the opportunity to enter into a covenant relationship on equal terms as Israelites had under in the old covenant. Satan cannot stop Gentiles coming to Christ. He doesn’t have that power any more.

What had to happen before the Gentiles received the light?

The resurrection of Christ. He had to defeat sin, Satan and death.

Isaiah 25:7-9 says, “he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it. And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.”

Jesus said, in Luke 24:46-47, “thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations (ethnos), beginning at Jerusalem.”

Acts 26:23 declares, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles (ethnos)."

The first resurrection opened up the Gospel to the nations!

We should note in this passage, the enlightening of the Gentiles (or) ethnos is carefully connected to the first resurrection of Christ. It is only through this powerful event that the deception that smothered the Gentiles was lifted. Moreover, the binding of Satan is expressly connected to the enlightenment of the Gentiles (or) ethnos.

That is all Revelation 20 is saying. This great victory demolished the power of the devil and triggered the widespread invasion of his territory.

Acts 13:46–48: “Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles (ethnos). For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles (ethnos), that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles (ethnos) heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.”

The disciples took it to that next level – scale wise.

Paul received his great commission to go onto the Gentiles with the Gospel during his conversion experience on the road to Damascus. The Lord said unto him in Acts 26:17-18: “Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”

Scripture often makes broad general sweeping statements. When Scripture tells us that the Gentiles would no longer be deceived it does not mean every single one of them, or even most of them, would be saved, just that the ignorance would be finally lifted from the darkened Gentiles.

Conclusion

1 John 2:8: “the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.”

2 Peter 1:19 "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts"

1 Peter 2:9-10: “ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.”

Does Scripture not outline that following Calvary the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ went out onto the Gentiles (ethnos)? And that while individual Gentiles can still be deceived or attacked by Satan, the collective veil that once deluded them has now been remove. Satan cannot stop the Gospel going to the nations as he once did. Since the cross, the Gospel has spread throughout the heathen nations of this world, something that never happened previous. However, this doesn't stop individuals being personally deceived.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (or ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

Scripture often makes general sweeping statements in regard to a people or peoples pertaining to their spiritual state in a given era.

The millennium represents the free spread of the Gospel to the Gentiles, as prophesied by Christ, the prophets and the apostles, and Satan's inability to thwart that because of spiritual restraint. That will all change at the end, when that advance is curtailed by the kingdom of darkness just before at end, just prior to the second coming, in Satan's little season, according to Revelation 20, 2 Thessalonians 2, and other Scripture.

sovereigngrace · Aug 31, 2021

Jeffwhosoever said:
As a Futurist, I believe this Scripture testifies to the strong probability (we cannot say fact for sure) that the chaining of Satan has not yet occurred, but will happen because God said it will happen. After the Fall of Adam and Eve, we have never had any time in world history that Satan has not been active in deception, so my interpretation is that this Scripture is further evidence that the Futurist interpretation is the most probable, but I also maintain that we will not know for 100% sure whether the Futurist, Preterist, Historicist or Idealist is correct until the Lord does return again. Then we won't have any doubt!

Amils obviously do not agree, and for good reason. Satan has been totally defeated through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. We don’t have to defeat the enemy, Jesus has already done that. All we need to do is use our God given authority and enforce that victory wherever we go.

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

Since the first Advent, Satan is shown to be a conquered foe.

• Satan is powerless to do what he wants to do.
• He is powerless to stop the Church of Jesus Christ spreading the good news of Gospel throughout the nations.
• He is powerless to stop someone coming to Christ.
• He is powerless to stop a man or woman of God walking in the will of God.
• He is powerless to harm a believer without God’s permission.
• He is powerless to resist a Spirit-filled believer implementing delegated authority from on high against the devil and his demons.
• He is powerless to affect the final outcome of this battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness.

lsume · Aug 31, 2021

Michael Collum said:
So about that passage in Revelation about the devil being chained into the abyss for 1000 years.

I've heard the idea that the period where the devil is chained (figuratively) is right now.

One conflicting thought I've had about this idea is the following bit of scripture:

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Because the nations are still acting deceived, this event cannot have happened yet, and cannot be now. Therefore, the idea that the time is now, is incorrect by basis of "fruit."

Since Jesus said we can know if a prophecy (even of the end) is true or false by it's fruit, this should matter. However, it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't.

Discussing whether there is or isn't a millennium is off topic.

Consider the state of the world? Sin has caused great pain and suffering. A man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust.

Gregory Thompson · Aug 31, 2021

lsume said:
Consider the state of the world? Sin has caused great pain and suffering. A man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust.

If it were merely man's sin being the only issue, there wouldn't be a centralization of wickedness.

Gregory Thompson · Aug 31, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Does Scripture not outline that following Calvary the light of the glorious Gospel of Christ went out onto the Gentiles (ethnos)? And that while individual Gentiles can still be deceived or attacked by Satan, the collective veil that once deluded them has now been remove. Satan cannot stop the Gospel going to the nations as he once did. Since the cross, the Gospel has spread throughout the heathen nations of this world, something that never happened previous. However, this doesn't stop individuals being personally deceived.

Revelation 20:2 makes clear, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations (or ethnos) no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.”

I read both of your posts, it was good. I was able to add another parallel interpretation to the wheel turning in my subconscious.

So in the interpretation you are offering, the thousand years is representative the gospel age (regardless of how long it stretches out) in which "all peoples" will be able to receive the gospel - whereas before, they were in darkness and unable to see the light.

This interpretation appears to imply some people are not able to receive the gospel because they are a bad seed that God did not plant. (wheat and tares parable) So it will fall under that range of parallels.

Thank you again for posting.

sovereigngrace · Aug 31, 2021

Michael Collum said:
I read both of your posts, it was good. I was able to add another parallel interpretation to the wheel turning in my subconscious.

So in the interpretation you are offering, the thousand years is representative the gospel age (regardless of how long it stretches out) in which "all peoples" will be able to receive the gospel - whereas before, they were in darkness and unable to see the light.

This interpretation appears to imply some people are not able to receive the gospel because they are a bad seed that God did not plant. (wheat and tares parable) So it will fall under that range of parallels.

Thank you again for posting.

Thank you for actually reading these lengthy posts. It is hard to explain this in a couple of lines.

Just like blindness and darkness are attributed to the Gentiles (without qualification) prior to the cross, it didn’t mean that every single Gentile was blind and in darkness. Scripture often described the Gentiles as a collective whole. That did not mean the Gentiles were all the same. Scripture, like us, makes generalities. Prior to Christ’s earthly ministry the heathen nations were viewed as being in wholesale ignorant and therefore outside of God’s plan of salvation. Could I suggest this was simply a general observation about the overall condition of the Gentiles as a broad mass, not an attempt to represent every single Gentile?

If we were to take many of the sweeping general statements re the blindness and darkness of the Gentiles in the OT hyper-literally it would negate the salvation of Abel, Noah, Abraham, Ruth (Ruth 1:16), the widow women of Zarephath that entertained Elijah (1 Kings 17:24), Rahab the harlot and “all her kindred” (Joshua 6:23-25), Naaman (2 Kings 5:15), the Queen of Sheba (Matthew 12:42), and the inhabitants of the Gentile city of Ninevah (Jonah 3:5). Were these not Gentiles? Where these not “God's people”? The fact is this general assertion did not apply to every single Gentile. Likewise, when Scripture speak about the enlightenment of the Gentiles and the removal of the deception it doesn’t mean that every Gentile will be saved, but that the Gospel message and opportunity would be extended to them as a whole – just like Israel experienced in the Old Testament.

Let me illustrate.

In Matthew 12 we see the religious Jews rejecting Christ. Matthew 12:14-22 records, “Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust. Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.”

Christ’s rejection by his own house (Israel) saw Him turn to the Gentiles and the formerly outcast. He was now going to invade the devil’s house and acquire a spoil. Immediately after the Jews turned on Him in this story He delivers one of Satan’s household – a demon possessed man – thus illustrating that there was a darkened people out there that would come to faith in Christ. He used this man who belonged to the devil’s own house (kingdom) to impress the direction of the Gospel from hereon. Now, my main point is this: this reading expressly declares “in his name shall the Gentiles trust.” Using the Premil argument: all the Gentiles must trust, or this cannot apply today. What I am saying is, if you were to apply this argument namely that the fact that the vast bulk of Gentiles still remain deceived is evidence why we can’t be in the millennium now then we must (if we are consistent) apply the same rule to this statement to show that it can’t be relevant to today. It cannot relate to the here-and-now because the majority of Gentiles still don’t trust God. Of course that would be preposterous. Such a statement is a general reference to the removal of the veil deceiving the Gentiles as a whole after the cross.

Paul draws several of the Old Testament prophecies, relating to the removing of this global deception upon the ethnos, together in Romans 15:8-12 and shows how this began with the life, death and resurrection of Christ and the subsequent evangelism of the early Church. He declares, “Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written (in 1 Samuel 22:50), For this cause I will confess to thee among the [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith (in Psalm 18:49), Rejoice, ye [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles, with his people. And again (in Deuteronomy 32:43), Praise the Lord, all ye [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. And again (in Isaiah 11:10), Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles; in him shall the [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles trust.”

The Old Testament writers predicted that there was a time coming when the Gentiles would accept Christ, glorify His name and trust Him. Now, here is an important question. Did all the Gentiles surrender to Him? Using the Premil argument on Rev 20:2 they must. After all, this reading makes a blanket statement they would believe, without qualification. Indeed, did that mean that the majority of Gentiles would do so? Of course not. Did that mean that the majority of Gentile nations would turn to God? Of course not. Did that mean that the majority of Gentiles would turn from heathenism? Of course not. This was talking about the general enlightenment of the Gentiles.

I personally believe, Premil places a meaning on Revelation 20 which is unsustainable if you apply it to countless other simpler passages in Scripture. Their interpretation of Revelation is out of kilter with the various readings above.

Satan was spiritually bound in chains in order to facilitate the spread of the Gospel to his territory. No other meaning enjoys scriptural corroboration.

Gregory Thompson · Aug 31, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Thank you for actually reading these lengthy posts. It is hard to explain this in a couple of lines.

Just like blindness and darkness are attributed to the Gentiles (without qualification) prior to the cross, it didn’t mean that every single Gentile was blind and in darkness. Scripture often described the Gentiles as a collective whole. That did not mean the Gentiles were all the same. Scripture, like us, makes generalities. Prior to Christ’s earthly ministry the heathen nations were viewed as being in wholesale ignorant and therefore outside of God’s plan of salvation. Could I suggest this was simply a general observation about the overall condition of the Gentiles as a broad mass, not an attempt to represent every single Gentile?

If we were to take many of the sweeping general statements re the blindness and darkness of the Gentiles in the OT hyper-literally it would negate the salvation of Abel, Noah, Abraham, Ruth (Ruth 1:16), the widow women of Zarephath that entertained Elijah (1 Kings 17:24), Rahab the harlot and “all her kindred” (Joshua 6:23-25), Naaman (2 Kings 5:15), the Queen of Sheba (Matthew 12:42), and the inhabitants of the Gentile city of Ninevah (Jonah 3:5). Were these not Gentiles? Where these not “God's people”? The fact is this general assertion did not apply to every single Gentile. Likewise, when Scripture speak about the enlightenment of the Gentiles and the removal of the deception it doesn’t mean that every Gentile will be saved, but that the Gospel message and opportunity would be extended to them as a whole – just like Israel experienced in the Old Testament.

Let me illustrate.

In Matthew 12 we see the religious Jews rejecting Christ. Matthew 12:14-22 records, “Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him. But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; And charged them that they should not make him known: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles trust. Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.”

Christ’s rejection by his own house (Israel) saw Him turn to the Gentiles and the formerly outcast. He was now going to invade the devil’s house and acquire a spoil. Immediately after the Jews turned on Him in this story He delivers one of Satan’s household – a demon possessed man – thus illustrating that there was a darkened people out there that would come to faith in Christ. He used this man who belonged to the devil’s own house (kingdom) to impress the direction of the Gospel from hereon. Now, my main point is this: this reading expressly declares “in his name shall the Gentiles trust.” Using the Premil argument: all the Gentiles must trust, or this cannot apply today. What I am saying is, if you were to apply this argument namely that the fact that the vast bulk of Gentiles still remain deceived is evidence why we can’t be in the millennium now then we must (if we are consistent) apply the same rule to this statement to show that it can’t be relevant to today. It cannot relate to the here-and-now because the majority of Gentiles still don’t trust God. Of course that would be preposterous. Such a statement is a general reference to the removal of the veil deceiving the Gentiles as a whole after the cross.

Paul draws several of the Old Testament prophecies, relating to the removing of this global deception upon the ethnos, together in Romans 15:8-12 and shows how this began with the life, death and resurrection of Christ and the subsequent evangelism of the early Church. He declares, “Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written (in 1 Samuel 22:50), For this cause I will confess to thee among the [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith (in Psalm 18:49), Rejoice, ye [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles, with his people. And again (in Deuteronomy 32:43), Praise the Lord, all ye [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. And again (in Isaiah 11:10), Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles; in him shall the [Gr. ethnos] Gentiles trust.”

The Old Testament writers predicted that there was a time coming when the Gentiles would accept Christ, glorify His name and trust Him. Now, here is an important question. Did all the Gentiles surrender to Him? Using the Premil argument on Rev 20:2 they must. After all, this reading makes a blanket statement they would believe, without qualification. Indeed, did that mean that the majority of Gentiles would do so? Of course not. Did that mean that the majority of Gentile nations would turn to God? Of course not. Did that mean that the majority of Gentiles would turn from heathenism? Of course not. This was talking about the general enlightenment of the Gentiles.

I personally believe, Premil places a meaning on Revelation 20 which is unsustainable if you apply it to countless other simpler passages in Scripture. Their interpretation of Revelation is out of kilter with the various readings above.

Satan was spiritually bound in chains in order to facilitate the spread of the Gospel to his territory. No other meaning enjoys scriptural corroboration.

A passage that came to mind during your post was in Psalm 115

7 they have hands, but cannot feel; they have feet, but cannot walk; they cannot even clear their throats. 8Those who make them become like them, as do all who trust in them.

Also in Psalm 135

17they have ears, but cannot hear; nor is there breath in their mouths. 18Those who make them become like them, as do all who trust in them.

This would mean, when Jesus went down into the place of the dead to preach for 3 days; Those who worshiped idols, were like them in the afterlife, and could not see Him nor were they able to hear His voice. So anyone in the place of the dead who was able to follow, did and entered into life is what I get from it.

Sounded like it would lead well into part of your post.

sovereigngrace · Aug 31, 2021

Michael Collum said:
A passage that came to mind during your post was in Psalm 115

7 they have hands, but cannot feel; they have feet, but cannot walk; they cannot even clear their throats. 8Those who make them become like them, as do all who trust in them.

Also in Psalm 135

17they have ears, but cannot hear; nor is there breath in their mouths. 18Those who make them become like them, as do all who trust in them.

This would mean, when Jesus went down into the place of the dead to preach for 3 days; Those who worshiped idols, were like them in the afterlife, and could not see Him nor were they able to hear His voice. So anyone in the place of the dead who was able to follow, did and entered into life is what I get from it.

Sounded like it would lead well into part of your post.

I would apply the detail in Revelation 20 more to the dead in Christ in heaven and the living in Christ on earth during the intra-Advent period rather than Hades. But saying that, when Jesus died, He defeated Hades stripping her of her elect.

I have some good thoughts on that if you are interested.

friend of · Aug 31, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Amils obviously do not agree, and for good reason. Satan has been totally defeated through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. We don’t have to defeat the enemy, Jesus has already done that. All we need to do is use our God given authority and enforce that victory wherever we go.

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

Since the first Advent, Satan is shown to be a conquered foe.

• Satan is powerless to do what he wants to do.
• He is powerless to stop the Church of Jesus Christ spreading the good news of Gospel throughout the nations.
• He is powerless to stop someone coming to Christ.
• He is powerless to stop a man or woman of God walking in the will of God.
• He is powerless to harm a believer without God’s permission.
• He is powerless to resist a Spirit-filled believer implementing delegated authority from on high against the devil and his demons.
• He is powerless to affect the final outcome of this battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness.

Yes Satan is restricted when dealing with believers. But Satan is still very active in the hearts of unbelievers. 2 Corinthians 4:4

sovereigngrace · Aug 31, 2021

friend of said:
Yes Satan is restricted when dealing with believers. But Satan is still very active in the hearts of unbelievers. 2 Corinthians 4:4

I agree. But Satan cannot stop the enlightenment of the Gentiles as before. The restraint simply relates to the Gospel advance to the Gentiles. They were once enveloped in darkness before the first resurrection, now a bright light has been shining for 2000 years saving countless millions throughout the nations. And there is absolutely nothing Satan can do prevent the invasion of his territory. He cannot deceive "the nations" (Gentiles) because we now have the truth as a result of the church expansion into the nations.

Gregory Thompson · Aug 31, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
I would apply the detail in Revelation 20 more to the dead in Christ in heaven and the living in Christ on earth during the intra-Advent period rather than Hades. But saying that, when Jesus died, He defeated Hades stripping her of her elect.

I have some good thoughts on that if you are interested.

Sure, share away.

friend of · Aug 31, 2021

When you say "his territory" you are talking about his kingdom. So you are kinda admitting that Satan isn't bound. An imprisoned foe would have no kingdom.

sovereigngrace · Aug 31, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Sure, share away.

Ok. Sounds good.

Since the cross, Christians never go to Hades. The following Scriptures tell us that death has been defeated. It has no hold over the believer. Jesus has defeated it. That is why the redeemed (dead or alive) rule and reign and function as priests and kings.

Death defeated

2 Timothy 1:9-10 says, “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.”

Here you have it! Jesus has abolished death on our behalf. He do not need to fear it any more. Our Lord confronted that dark enemy and overcome it, opening up heaven to the dead in Christ through His eternal victory.

Death has lost its sting. Christ’s appeared unto John on the Isle of Patmos years after the cross, in Revelation 1:18, and testified: “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell (or Hades) and of death.”

Death and Hades are now defeated. The grave has been conquered. God's people who die go now to be with Jesus. Hades was emptied after the first resurrection. Jesus defeated sin, death, Hades and Satan through his first Advent. The dead in Christ now reign in heaven with Christ.

Hebrews 2:14-18 explains: “through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”

Christ currently holds the keys of Hades and of death, and Satan cannot snatch them out of His hand. He holds the keys because they belong to Him. He possesses all authority in heaven and on earth. That includes power over life and death.

Praise the Lord, the grave has been defeated.

1 John 3:18 states “The Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the Devil.”

Satan had exercised that Adamic authority since the fall. Now it was time for the last Adam to grasp it back. As man’s representative, Christ had to take upon Himself human flesh to meet the devil on his own playing field. He had to take back all that was lost in the Garden. In this, Christ lived the life that Adam couldn’t live. Christ came to live the life man couldn’t live and pay the debt that man could never pay. By Christ’s sinless life, His atoning death and glorious resurrected He defeated the authority of Satan and took back all that belonged to Adam. Satan has been stripped of his legal authority to control the nations.

Live forever

John states Revelation 20:6, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Here, the first resurrection is outlined as the means by which men gain victory over the second death and enter into the great company that reign in Christ – both dead and alive; the redeemed reign in life and in death. In life, they are spiritually positioned in the heavenly Jerusalem, in death, they enter into the immediate presence of God and reign through Him that sits upon the throne.

This corresponds to what Jesus taught in John 11:25, saying, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

This is speaking of the resurrection life that can be enjoyed in this life through faith.

Jesus said in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Currently believing carefully corresponds with currently experiencing “everlasting life." It is a present reality for the elect, not merely a future hope. That is so because God lives within us now.

John 3:36 says, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life; and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God (the second death) abideth on him.”

If you don't possess eternal life now you will not possess it in the life to come. Only those who possess it now will never die.

Jesus said in John 5:24: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death (or experience the second death) unto life.”

Jesus said in John 6:47: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

The word “hath” here is a present tense word which means now or at this present time.

Jesus said in John 6:50-51, 54&58: “This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world … Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life … he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.”

John 8:51-52 Christ said to the Pharisees, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death (or experience the second death) … If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death.”

Jesus said in John 10:27-28: “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish (or experience the second death), neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Jesus says, in John 11:25, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die (or experience the second death)."

These bodies are not eternal or immortal. Our spirits are. That is 101 Christianity. These bodies die. What is more we experience eternal life upon salvation. The Christian will live for and never die because the Spirit of God within.

I John 5:11-13 says, “God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”

To have Christ is to have eternal life. That simple! Not to have Christ is not to have eternal life.

sovereigngrace · Aug 31, 2021

Michael Collum said:
Sure, share away.

After the penitent thief requested that the Lord would “remember” him when He comes into “thy kingdom.” The Lord immediately responded “Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

Right from the outset, we see the definite connecting of entering paradise with entering the heavenly kingdom. To say otherwise is to butcher the text. Why would Jesus promise this thief paradise when every other believer since the fall went direct to Abraham’s bosom upon death?

Was Abraham’s bosom not paradise?

We need to 1st rewind the tape to the beginning and remember that God’s perfect will for man was that he would abide in paradise forever. This represented perfect uninterrupted communion with God. When man fell he was separated from God. That perfect communion was broken.

As we look at the Old Testament we see that fallen man could not handle the holy presence of God after this, even when he was forgiven. There were only intermittent manifestations of the Shekinah glory. Generally, this glory was hidden behind a curtain in the temple, and was only experienced once a year by once person – the high priest.

Abraham’s bosom was not God’s perfect plan. Hades itself was “prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41).

There is not one single passage Old or New Testament that describes Abraham’s bosom as Paradise.

Why would Abraham’s bosom not be Paradise?

Even the Old Testament believers going there was a result of the fall and a constant reminder of the victory Satan secured over man in the Garden.

Abraham’s bosom was not Paradise. After all: Paradise is where God is. Paradise is where there is perfect peace, perfect order and perfect uninterrupted communion with Him. It is where the will of God is supreme.

Abraham’s bosom was God’s permissive will and was a reality that had to be rectified. After all the Old Testament redeemed were still separated from God – something that did not constitute Paradise.

Paradise is a Persian term meaning a royal garden or a hunting-park. It gradually over the years became a synonym for Eden. The Hebrew word pardes (פרדס) occurs three times in the Old Testament, but never directly in the context of Eden. However, every time it refers to orchards / gardens. It can be found in the Song of Solomon 4:13, Ecclesiastes 2:5 and Nehemiah 2:8.

Genesis 2:8-9: “And the LORD God planted a garden (paradeisos) eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden (paradeisos), and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”

The Greek word for paradise (paradeisos) is used 27 times in the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint). The first thirteen times are in Genesis 2 and 3, all references to the Garden in Eden, of course. Other references in the Old Testament to the Garden in Eden use this same Greek word. But it is also employed to refer to a beautiful Royal garden in Scripture.

The Greek New Testament that Christ and the Apostles often used which was written in the 3rd century BC.

It is in the Jewish apocalyptic literature and in the Talmud that Paradise gets its association with the Garden of Eden (and its heavenly prototype).

Genesis 3:23-24: “Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden (paradeisos) of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden (paradeisos) of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”

This was Paradise lost!!

Man was not allowed to go into the presence of God – only under certain circumstances.

The priest once a year on the day of atonement.

New Testament

Paradise was lost right up until the cross.

In the New Testament Paradise becomes synonymous with heaven and the New Jerusalem.

When Jesus prophesied to the dying thief, in Luke 23:43, “Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise”

How could Jesus promise this thief Paradise when every other believer since the fall went direct to Abraham’s bosom upon death?

Was Abraham’s bosom paradise?

He was about to secure the victory that would allow the redeemed Old Testament saints to enter direct into Paradise.

He was announcing a massive change in the location believers went to upon death since the beginning of time. He was revealing something absolutely new. Through the work of Christ, God’s people at death would now be taken into the holy presence of God. It took the transaction of the new covenant to realise that.

It was this same place that Paul the Apostle testified, in 2 Corinthians 12:4. After the cross, after the emptying of Abraham bosom, Paul testified in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4: “I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth. How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.”

Paradise = the third heaven.

If we compare the location of “the tree of life” in Revelation 2:7 (paradise) and Revelation 22:2, 14 (New Jerusalem), we see that paradise is clearly the New Jerusalem. Revelation 2:7 says, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; to him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”

Clearly “the tree of life” in Revelation 2:7 resides within Paradise.

In Revelation 21:2 “John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

In Revelation 22:2, 14 he further describes, “In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life … Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”

We can safely deduce that the word Paradise is used as another name for the heavenly abode, and particularly the New Jerusalem. No one would surely doubt the location of “the tree of life” here in Revelation 22:2, 14. It is located in the New Jerusalem.

Paradise = the third heaven = the New Jerusalem.

Gregory Thompson · Aug 31, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
After the penitent thief requested that the Lord would “remember” him when He comes into “thy kingdom.” The Lord immediately responded “Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.”

Right from the outset, we see the definite connecting of entering paradise with entering the heavenly kingdom. To say otherwise is to butcher the text. Why would Jesus promise this thief paradise when every other believer since the fall went direct to Abraham’s bosom upon death?

Was Abraham’s bosom not paradise?

We need to 1st rewind the tape to the beginning and remember that God’s perfect will for man was that he would abide in paradise forever. This represented perfect uninterrupted communion with God. When man fell he was separated from God. That perfect communion was broken.

As we look at the Old Testament we see that fallen man could not handle the holy presence of God after this, even when he was forgiven. There were only intermittent manifestations of the Shekinah glory. Generally, this glory was hidden behind a curtain in the temple, and was only experienced once a year by once person – the high priest.

Abraham’s bosom was not God’s perfect plan. Hades itself was “prepared for the devil and his angels” (Matthew 25:41).

There is not one single passage Old or New Testament that describes Abraham’s bosom as Paradise.

Why would Abraham’s bosom not be Paradise?

Even the Old Testament believers going there was a result of the fall and a constant reminder of the victory Satan secured over man in the Garden.

Abraham’s bosom was not Paradise. After all: Paradise is where God is. Paradise is where there is perfect peace, perfect order and perfect uninterrupted communion with Him. It is where the will of God is supreme.

Abraham’s bosom was God’s permissive will and was a reality that had to be rectified. After all the Old Testament redeemed were still separated from God – something that did not constitute Paradise.

Paradise is a Persian term meaning a royal garden or a hunting-park. It gradually over the years became a synonym for Eden. The Hebrew word pardes (פרדס) occurs three times in the Old Testament, but never directly in the context of Eden. However, every time it refers to orchards / gardens. It can be found in the Song of Solomon 4:13, Ecclesiastes 2:5 and Nehemiah 2:8.

Genesis 2:8-9: “And the LORD God planted a garden (paradeisos) eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden (paradeisos), and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”

The Greek word for paradise (paradeisos) is used 27 times in the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint). The first thirteen times are in Genesis 2 and 3, all references to the Garden in Eden, of course. Other references in the Old Testament to the Garden in Eden use this same Greek word. But it is also employed to refer to a beautiful Royal garden in Scripture.

The Greek New Testament that Christ and the Apostles often used which was written in the 3rd century BC.

It is in the Jewish apocalyptic literature and in the Talmud that Paradise gets its association with the Garden of Eden (and its heavenly prototype).

Genesis 3:23-24: “Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden (paradeisos) of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden (paradeisos) of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.”

This was Paradise lost!!

Man was not allowed to go into the presence of God – only under certain circumstances.

The priest once a year on the day of atonement.

New Testament

Paradise was lost right up until the cross.

In the New Testament Paradise becomes synonymous with heaven and the New Jerusalem.

When Jesus prophesied to the dying thief, in Luke 23:43, “Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise”

How could Jesus promise this thief Paradise when every other believer since the fall went direct to Abraham’s bosom upon death?

Was Abraham’s bosom paradise?

He was about to secure the victory that would allow the redeemed Old Testament saints to enter direct into Paradise.

He was announcing a massive change in the location believers went to upon death since the beginning of time. He was revealing something absolutely new. Through the work of Christ, God’s people at death would now be taken into the holy presence of God. It took the transaction of the new covenant to realise that.

It was this same place that Paul the Apostle testified, in 2 Corinthians 12:4. After the cross, after the emptying of Abraham bosom, Paul testified in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4: “I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth, such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth. How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.”

Paradise = the third heaven.

If we compare the location of “the tree of life” in Revelation 2:7 (paradise) and Revelation 22:2, 14 (New Jerusalem), we see that paradise is clearly the New Jerusalem. Revelation 2:7 says, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; to him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”

Clearly “the tree of life” in Revelation 2:7 resides within Paradise.

In Revelation 21:2 “John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

In Revelation 22:2, 14 he further describes, “In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life … Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.”

We can safely deduce that the word Paradise is used as another name for the heavenly abode, and particularly the New Jerusalem. No one would surely doubt the location of “the tree of life” here in Revelation 22:2, 14. It is located in the New Jerusalem.

Paradise = the third heaven = the New Jerusalem.

That was a good read. I appreciate how the gospel is woven into your eschatology.

Thank you for sharing.

sovereigngrace · Aug 31, 2021

Michael Collum said:
That was a good read. I appreciate how the gospel is woven into your eschatology.

Thank you for sharing.

Your welcome! Thanks for taking the time!

lsume · Aug 31, 2021

Michael Collum said:
If it were merely man's sin being the only issue, there wouldn't be a centralization of wickedness.

I think that was my point. However no man can blame anyone but himself for sinning.

Gregory Thompson · Aug 31, 2021

lsume said:
I think that was my point.

So what do you surmise being the cause of the centralization? the formation of high wicked places?

lsume · Sep 1, 2021

Michael Collum said:
So what do you surmise being the cause of the centralization? the formation of high wicked places?

Sin is the cause of all suffering I believe. It seems for now that liars have the floor.

About the red dragon being chained in the abyss for 1000 years

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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A private in Gods army

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

A private in Gods army

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

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