Surprised nobodies debating Texas's new abortion law.

pgp_protector · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Read carefully. The procurers of abortion get 20 years, that is not necessarily the woman receiving the abortion. The hitmen - the abortionist, gets execution. This was the penalty under the Holy Tsar.

And self administered abortions?

Lain Iwakura · Aug 30, 2021

Arcangl86 said:
And what does what Tsar Nicolas would have done have to do with US law?

I never named a specific Tsar. The law is not unique to him, nor is he the only Holy Tsar. And law exists for justice and this is what justice looks like. Insofar as US Law fails to abide by justice, it is the law perverted.

Lain Iwakura · Aug 30, 2021

pgp_protector said:
And self administered abortions?

Are first degree murder and deserve the same penalty of law.

Pommer · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Are first degree murder and deserve the same penalty of law.

Imagine living in such a land!

Lain Iwakura · Aug 30, 2021

Pommer said:
Imagine living in such a land!

Yes, it would be good.

ThatRobGuy · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
"The right to abortion" also known as the right to murder children. Abortion is the violation of the right of life - it is first degree murder. And an appropriate punishment for procuring an abortion, the same as procuring a hitman, would be 20 years of hard labor. And the punishment for those hitmen who perform abortions is the death penalty.

Making law against the anti-right of abortion does not effect actual rights.

So, if I may ask...is everyone who's of the same mindset as you on this issue willing to commit to making the requisite financial sacrifice in order to make sure each and every one, carried to term and delivered, is properly cared for and provided a decent life post-birth?

If what I'm hearing is "every life is precious, and deserves to be cared for", does that mean the pro-life crowd has done an about-face, and there won't be any more of that "welfare and food stamps are socialism, and any single mom collecting is a welfare queen" talk?

...and does that also mean that the pro-life crowd has revised their thinking with regards to making no-cost contraception available to low-income women who would like to get it, and decided it's time to retire that tired old 'abstinence-only education' failed approach, as to prevent the maximum number of unplanned pregnancies we possibly can?

I hope so...because, if not, that would just mean that people are still doing the same virtue signaling they've been doing for the last 40 years. Which is to pretend to deeply care about each and every life, right up until the time they leave the womb, and then vociferously proclaim "you're on your own, I shouldn't have to pay for that, it's your mistake"

For the record:
On a personal level, I'm not crazy about abortion, I think in the overwhelming majority of cases, it's merely used as a last ditch contraception effort when other, better, options for preventing parenthood are available. But until the pro-life crowd wants to actually have a serious conversation about how prevent the most unplanned pregnancies, and how to care for children/families in cases where things don't go as planned, then I wouldn't dream of opposing abortion on a political level.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Pfft... it's basically already like that with anonymous hotlines or whatnot. It's not some health inspector catching you, it's some customer reporting you because they saw someone else in your store not wearing masks (regardless of whether that customer got exempted.)

I live in a nice liberal state. And I hope it stays that way. I haven't heard of people turning people in for not wearing a mask . My dad has COPD, still wears the mask with no trouble. Most people are lying about having medical exempt. Or these issue you brought up.

Blade · Aug 30, 2021

Goonie said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/07/19/texas-sb8-abortion-lawsuits/

A terrible law.

But hey just think if found constitutional will allow other states to effectively ban gun ownership, make being Christian effectively illegal. Free speech(only if you can afford the court fees). The possibilities of turning the constitution into toilet paper are endless.

Praise God for it.. its growing around the country. You talk about no debate yet say "make being Christian effectively illegal :clap:

" Coming from an Atheist? I wonder. Well here we are on a "Christian forum" CLAP! I like that! Praise GOD awesome to seek our God at work.

Abortion has been going on for some time now so has gun rights.. the constitution is still going strong. It is very odd when a party does something that goes against that said constitution.. those that like agree with that party say nothing.. odd huh.

Yttrium · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Yes, it would be good.

Out of curiosity, would you want all miscarriages to be investigated as possible homicides? Many cases could be seen at least as manslaughter, if abortion is to be considered as murder.

Considering that most pregnancies end in miscarriage, that would be an awful lot of investigations, but you wouldn't want to let any serious crimes sneak through.

Lain Iwakura · Aug 30, 2021

ThatRobGuy said:
So, if I may ask...is everyone who's of the same mindset as you on this issue willing to commit to making the requisite financial sacrifice in order to make sure each and every one, carried to term and delivered, is properly cared for and provided a decent life post-birth?

If what I'm hearing is "every life is precious, and deserves to be cared for", does that mean the pro-life crowd has done an about-face, and there won't be any more of that "welfare and food stamps are socialism, and any single mom collecting is a welfare queen" talk?

...and does that also mean that the pro-life crowd has revised their thinking with regards to making no-cost contraception available to low-income women who would like to get it, and decided it's time to retire that tired old 'abstinence-only education' failed approach, as to prevent the maximum number of unplanned pregnancies we possibly can?

I hope so...because, if not, that would just mean that people are still doing the same virtue signaling they've been doing for the last 40 years. Which is to pretend to deeply care about each and every life, right up until the time they leave the womb, and then vociferously proclaim "you're on your own, I shouldn't have to pay for that, it's your mistake"

For the record:
On a personal level, I'm not crazy about abortion, I think in the overwhelming majority of cases, it's merely used as a last ditch contraception effort when other, better, options for preventing parenthood are available. But until the pro-life crowd wants to actually have a serious conversation about how prevent the most unplanned pregnancies, and how to care for children/families in cases where things don't go as planned, then I wouldn't dream of opposing abortion on a political level.

Is it acceptable to murder people because we deem that their life isn't or won't be good enough to live? Should we kill the gypsies or the jews, because a guy with a mustache had his scientists determine that their life isn't good enough to live? How about people with down syndrome? Or autistic children? How about people who might suffer from depression? How about people who have a genetic tendency towards alcoholism? Yes, we could enact a final solution and just kill anyone who might not have a 'decent' life when life is, in itself, suffering.

Lain Iwakura · Aug 30, 2021

Yttrium said:
Out of curiosity, would you want all miscarriages to be investigated as possible homicides? Many cases could be seen at least as manslaughter, if abortion is to be considered as murder.

Considering that most pregnancies end in miscarriage, that would be an awful lot of investigations, but you wouldn't want to let any serious crimes sneak through.

The point of the seriousness of the crime, necessarily requiring a response to the injustice. Such should be enacted in a way that maintains justice and does not act injustly to the innocent.

Yttrium · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
The point of the seriousness of the crime, necessarily requiring a response to the injustice. Such should be enacted in a way that maintains justice and does not act injustly to the innocent.

Okay, thanks.

ThatRobGuy · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Is it acceptable to murder people because we deem that their life isn't or won't be good enough to live? Should we kill the gypsies or the jews, because a guy with a mustache had his scientists determine that their life isn't good enough to live? How about people with down syndrome? Or autistic children? How about people who might suffer from depression? How about people who have a genetic tendency towards alcoholism? Yes, we could enact a final solution and just kill anyone who might not have a 'decent' life when life is, in itself, suffering.

...not really interested in your Hitler comparisons. I asked some simple questions, and mentioned nothing about "deciding who is good enough to live"

I'll ask them more plainly for clarity:
1) Are you willing to pay more in taxes to expand welfare and social safety nets for single moms?
2) Are you in favor of making no-cost contraception available to anyone who wants it?
3) Are you in favor of scrapping abstinence only education and replacing that with the pragmatic understanding that people are going to have sex (even in circumstances you don't agree with), and it's more important to teach them how to do it safely than trying to prevent them from doing it.

The reason I ask those specific questions, is because those are the things that are going to drastically reduce the number of abortions.

If anyone truly feels abortion is murder AND answers "No" to those questions, then they're not really serious about reducing the number of abortions, they're simply looking to virtue signal, or they've prioritized proselytizing and "making sure I don't have to spend money on other people I don't want to" over what they've espoused is protection of a human life.

If anyone truly feels abortion is actual baby murder, then they should have no problem paying whatever it costs to prevent it, and putting other, lesser, grievances aside in order to stop it from happening.

NxNW · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Read carefully. The procurers of abortion get 20 years, that is not necessarily the woman receiving the abortion. The hitmen - the abortionist, gets execution. This was the penalty under the Holy Tsar.

If a woman dies during childbirth, do we execute the baby for killing her? Or is her life not precious?

NxNW · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Is it acceptable to murder people because we deem that their life isn't or won't be good enough to live? Should we kill the gypsies or the jews, because a guy with a mustache had his scientists determine that their life isn't good enough to live? How about people with down syndrome? Or autistic children? How about people who might suffer from depression? How about people who have a genetic tendency towards alcoholism?

There are laws against murder, which has nothing to do with abortion.

NxNW · Aug 30, 2021

Lain Iwakura said:
Yes, it would be good.

All those rape victims being put to death, paradise!

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Aug 30, 2021

Blade said:
Praise God for it.. its growing around the country. You talk about no debate yet say "make being Christian effectively illegal" Coming from an Atheist?

Where has this happened in America?

I wonder. Well here we are on a "Christian forum" CLAP! I like that! Praise GOD awesome to seek our God at work.

This wont stop abortions at all. This will possibly cause more hushed up abortions. Pregnant women wont talk about being pregnant. They won't go to doctors , until they made the decision to keep it. Because of fear. So nobody to talk them out of an abortion. This a fail .

Strathos · Aug 30, 2021

It's disheartening that everyone who is praising this law doesn't seem to understand the OP's point about the precedent it sets and the possible long-term consequences.

Just because the law aims for an outcome that you might want doesn't mean it's good if it opens the door for many outcomes that you wouldn't want.

Imagine the following scenario: A computer error in your bank software starts randomly transferring money from some accounts to others. This error gets you a million dollars for free. You then praise this error, saying it's a great thing, but you don't consider what else it could cause to happen.

The next day, the error makes you lose 2 million dollars.

Landon Caeli · Aug 30, 2021

Goonie said:
Read the article. The grounds for suing according to Texas is that they have banned Al abortion past 6 weeks of conception. The state has given its citizens the right to sue anyone breaking that law, and have rigged the courts in their favour. Ie. The defendant cannot reclaim costs if they win in court, even if they win they can be sued using the same evidence by other parties and the court is not allowed to take the fact that they won the previous case into consideration.

That's definitely going to slow down the abortions. Looks to me like Texas is route to a population boom. It's not the end of the world.

...You know, a fun fact is that Texas was one of the few states that rejected Eugenics laws in the 1930's, when many states were sterilizing the "morons", and "imbeciles"... The feeble minded...

Landon Caeli · Aug 30, 2021

This PBS Documentary is a Must See.
the-eugenics-crusade-jtaetc

Surprised nobodies debating Texas's new abortion law.

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