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Root of Jesse

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Your response.

Jesse, the scriptures are provided in the post you are quoting from. Please read the post before responding. What is it in the post you are responding to that you disagree with?

Take Care.
But your answer was something in a concordance. I'm not objecting, I'm just saying someone keeps saying "no Scripture" and when asked to prove their point, non-Scripture is thrown. And the point of that is that Scripture alone is sort of an oxymoron.
My reference is to this ""the Lords day" in the Greek word meanings of τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" means (1) the Lords ownership of the day."
See, your authority as to what the Lord's Day is is some Greek concordance. We know what day the early Church worshiped on based on what they actually did, first and second century. Your concordance is from what year? I'd say our evidence is more close to the source.
Yes, I know you spilled a bunch of Scripture verses based on the Greek words. Trouble is, the OT wasn't written in Greek. It was written in Hebrew then translated to Greek, so you're taking a translation of a translation. And non-Scriptural, to boot!
Take care.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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But your answer was something in a concordance. I'm not objecting, I'm just saying someone keeps saying "no Scripture" and when asked to prove their point, non-Scripture is thrown. And the point of that is that Scripture alone is sort of an oxymoron.
No it wasn't. Did you read the the post you quoted from in post # 592 linked in your last post in post # 616?

As posted earlier....

"As demonstrated from the scriptures already according to the bible Revelation 1:10 "the Lords day" in the Greek word meanings of τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" means (1) the Lords ownership of the day. According to the scriptures alone Jesus claims he is (2) Lord of the Sabbath day because he is the creator of it *Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5; John 1:1-4; 14; Colossians 1:16; Genesis 2:1-3 and Jesus and God (3) claim ownership of the Sabbath day in Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 31:12-18; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:15; Leviticus 23:3; Exodus 31:15; Exodus 20:10. All of the above scriptures are evidence that agree to the interpretation provided from the scriptures alone in Revelation 1:10 that the day the Lord claims ownership over is the Sabbath day. Are you trying to say that Jesus does not claim to be Lord of the Sabbath day when he says in Matthew 12:8 that he is Lord of the Sabbath day claiming authority over the Sabbath and that He does now claim ownership of the Sabbath day when he calls it My holy day which is the meaning of the original Greek of Revelation 1:10 τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" or the Lords ownership of the day?"

................

On the other hand, there is no scripture that says "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. This is a man-made teaching and tradition of some in the early Church only found outside of the scriptures that is not supported anywhere in the bible. As shown above according to the scriptures as shown above "the Lord's day" or the day that Jesus claims to be Lord of and claims ownership of is the Sabbath day. The question then we should all be considering, who do we believe and follow; God or the teachings and traditions of men that have led many to break the commandments of God?

.................

How many scriptures can you count in the response provided above Jesse? What is it here in this post and the scriptures shared in this post with you that you disagree with and why?

Take Care.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Some of us are in the New Covenant, but are SDA still partly in the Old Covenant because they have failed to "cast out" the "bondwoman" of the Sinai Covenant found in Galatians 4:24-31? Do they ignore or explain away this passage?
According to the scriptures we are indeed in the new covenant now not the old covenant. According to the scriptures however it is your understanding of what the old covenant was and what the new covenant is that is the problem. You keep ignoring my posts and avoiding my questions on this topic without addressing anything in my responses to you. I asked you earlier what do you think the new covenant is as shown from the scriptures? All I got back from you was silence and a change of topic seeking to take the OP thread off topic again from the Lords day. You can read what the new covenant is in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27; Hebrews 10:1-22 if your interested. Galatians 4:24-31 is talking about the two covenants. The first covenant gives us the knowledge of what sin is and provision for God's forgiveness. The second covenant also gives us the knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) leading us to Christ *Galatians 3:22-25 where God writes his law in our hearts so that we can be obedient to them by faith that works by love which is Gods new covenant promise *Hebrews from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 13:8-10; Matthew 22:36-40; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-3. God's Word does not teach we are now free to break His commandments therefore the new covenant is not a covenant of lawlessness (without law). According to the scriptures if we break anyone of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11 for sin is the transgression of the laws *1 John 3:4 and of course we all know that God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken.
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
True, we are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. What does the context you left out of Hebrews 8:13 say the new covenant is in Hebrews 8:10-12? God's Word does not teach a covenant of lawlessness (without law). Look at the scripture context you are leaving out here in Hebrews 8:10-12.
One of your most well known preachers "Doug Batchelor" claims Jeremiah 31:34 has not been fulfilled yet, because he does not understand John 14:26, and 1 John 2:27. Has he also failed to "cast out" the "bondwoman"?.
Not at all. He said no such thing. This was also shown to you in another thread somewhere where you were corrected and shown he said no such thing. Can I ask that you return back to the OP now? I have asked you many times now but you continue to seek to take the thread off topic.

Take Care.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Oh, I agree with you, God is in charge of all days, he directs us to work six days and rest on the seventh. This speaks nothing of worship, and I provided EXACTLY Exodus 20:8-11 as proof. WHERE DOES IT SAY TO WORSHIP ON THE SABBATH??? It says "rest" and "keep it holy". No mention of worship. And I find all kinds of places, like Jeremiah 7, where God criticizes the Israelites for breaking every other commandment, but never about the commandment on Sabbath rest. And, in fact, you will find throughout Scripture the temple priests offering sacrifice (which is what worship is, btw) every day. Sacrifice to the Lord. The only ones critical of people breaking the Sabbath rest were, in fact, the Pharisees.
You seem to forget that Jesus is God, and He blessed Sunday by His resurrection.
You also place restrictions on this by demanding Scripture. But Jesus Himself didn't demand Scripture. He didn't write any, and he didn't demand that anyone write any. He told the apostles to go out and teach The apostles themselves kept the Sabbath AND worshiped Jesus on Sunday. Every time we present any document showing the second generation worshiping on Sunday, you say something about translation. I think you know that translation is not Scriptural, right? No, we go by the authority Jesus gave to the apostles and their successors to teach us when we should worship. You want to be a Jew, go ahead, be a Jew. But please, just go worship when you think you should worship, and I will worship Him every day. Saturday, included. But Sunday-Friday, too.


God is Jesus I agree and never stated otherwise.

God, which is Jesus told us to do all our work in six days. Exodus 20:9. So how does that make the first day a day of worship when God tells us it is a working day, a day to do all our labor, not a day of worship?

God set apart and sanctified the seventh day from Creation. Genesis 2:1-3. God blessed the seventh day and made it holy. God commanded us to keep the seventh day holy as well and we are to Remember the Sabbath day. Exodus 20:8

Does it make sense to worship our Creator and Savior on a working day or a day that God told us to hallow, a day He blessed, He sanctified and told us to keep holy. What is the definition of holy?
holy
[ hoh-lee ]
See synonyms for holy on Thesaurus.com
adjective, ho·li·er, ho·li·est.
specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated:holy ground.
dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion:a holy man.
saintly; godly; pious; devout:a holy life.
having a spiritually pure quality:a holy love.
entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred:a holy relic.

God did not make the first day holy so it seems more appropriate with our God-given common sense to worship God on the day He blessed and set apart as holy verse a day that is deemed a day to do our work and labor.

Do you think we should prepare ourselves now for Heaven? I sure do and we know the Sabbath day will continue as the Lord's chosen day of worship for eternity

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,says the Lord.

Why would we not want to worship God on the Sabbath now and Jesus told us to not worship in vain by obeying traditions over commandments. Sunday worship is a tradition and not a commandment of God so I would head the warning from our Savior's own lips. Matthew 15:3-9

Jesus never told anyone that the 4th commandment would be replaced by a new day of worship when He rises. This is all man-made traditions and even the disciples say we ought to obey God over man. Acts 5:29
 
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klutedavid

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WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY?

Hi all, for friendly discussion only please...

WHAT IS THE GREEK MEANING OF THE LORD'S DAY?

There seems to be some debate and confusion over which day "the Lords day" is referring to in Revelation 1:10 the meaning of the scripture from Greek to English is translated from the KJV

Revelation 1:10 [10], εγενόμην εν πνεύματι εν τη κυριακή ημέρα και ήκουσα φωνήν οπίσω μου μεγαλήν ως σάλπιγγος

Revelation 1:10 [10] I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet.

In the Koine Greek, "the Lords day" κυριακή (kyriakós; G2960) ημέρα (hēméra: G2250) simply means the day belonging to the Lord or the Lord's ownership of "the day".

The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day". This means, that the "day" in context is uniquely "the Lord's" out of all the 7 days of the week, for the day under consideration is that which exists within the week, as a day which repeats weekly. This is extremely important, as those who incorrectly assume it to mean "the first [day] of the week" in lieu of Jesus' resurrection, cannot get a weekly occurrence out of a one-time event, in fulfillment of typology of the Firstfruit/Wavesheaf in Leviticus 23:9-14, as made known in 1 Corinthians 15:20,23

WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT?

With the above Koine Greek meanings in mind the next question can be considered. What day is "the Lords day" referring to from the scriptures that the Lord specifically claims ownership of?

Matthew 12:8 For THE SON OF MAN IS LORD EVEN OF THE SABBATH DAY

So according to the very words of Jesus in the scriptures "the Lords day" is the Sabbath day. Here we can see Jesus claiming that he is the Lord of the Sabbath day, taking ownership which is the meaning of κυριακή ημέρα (the Lords ownership of the Sabbath day)

John in Revelation 1:10 is referring to Jesus as creator of heaven and earth by calling Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath just as he did in John 1:1-4; 14. The Lord's day is the Sabbath day!

Mark 2:28, Therefore THE SON OF MAN IS LORD ALSO OF THE SABBATH.

Luke 6:5 And he said to them, that THE SON OF MAN IS LORD ALSO OF THE SABBATH.

Once again the Sabbath day is "the Lords day" and Jesus is taking ownership of the Sabbath day meaning he is the creator God of the Sabbath; meaning he is the God of creation and the creator of heaven and earth (Genesis 2:1-3)

WHAT DAY IS THE LORD'S DAY FROM OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE?

We have seen above from the new testament scriptures that Jesus claims to the the Lord of the Sabbath day. That is he claims to be the God of creation and the Lord of the Sabbath claiming ownership of of the Sabbath day which is the meaning of κυριακή ημέρα (the Lords ownership of the day). According to the scriptures of the new testament Jesus is claiming ownership of the Sabbath day.

In the old testament God has also always claimed ownership of the Sabbath day has His...

Isaiah 58:13 [13] If you turn away your foot from the SABBATH, from doing your pleasure on MY HOLY DAY; and call the sabbath a delight, THE HOLY DAY OF THE LORD honorable; and shall honor him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words

Exodus 31:12-18 [12] Then the Lord said to Moses, [13] Say to the Israelites, You must observe MY SABBATHS (belonging to; ownership to the Lord; or LORD'S DAY). This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Leviticus 19:30 You shall keep MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.

Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover also I gave them MY SABBATHS, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

Once again God is claiming ownership of the Sabbath day (Revelation 1:10 κυριακή ημέρα) calling the Sabbath "my holy day" or "the holy day of the Lord" and "My Sabbaths"

Deuteronomy 5:14 BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD...
Leviticus 23:3 ... THE SABBATH OF THE LORD...
Exodus 31:15 ... THE SABBATH OF REST HOLY TO THE LORD
Exodus 20:10 BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD...

Once again God is claiming ownership of the Sabbath day (Revelation 1:10 κυριακή ημέρα) to the "Sabbath of the Lord" or "the Sabbath of rest holy to the Lord".

WHY DOES GOD AND JESUS CLAIM OWNERSHIP OF THE SABBATH DAY?

Why then does God and Jesus claim ownership of the Sabbath day (Revelation 1:10 κυριακή ημέρα)?

Genesis 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. [2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and he RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: because that in it he had RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.

Links to God’s 4th Commandment

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation Genesis 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to Genesis 2:1-3]

God claims ownership of the Sabbath because on it he rested from creating the heavens and the earth where he blessed the Sabbath as a holy day of rest for all mankind as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of Heaven and earth (Mark 2:27-28).

CONCLUSION

The "Lords day" is the Sabbath day according to the scriptures. There is no scriptural links to "the Lords day" in Revelation 1:10 being in reference to "Sunday" or the "the first day of the week". In Revelations 1:10 "Lords Day κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ does not link to any scripture reference in the NEW TESTAMENT to μιά των σαββάτων (the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK). In Revelation 1:10 κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ is used in reference to the Lord's ownership of the day which as shown above from the scriptures from both the old and new testament that the day Jesus and God claims ownership of is the Sabbath day. Revelation 1:10 says no where in the scriptures that this day is in reference to μιά των σαββάτων which means the first day of the week. The claim that "the Lords day" is Sunday is a teaching and tradition of men that is not supported in the scriptures.

....................

CHALLENGE FOR THOSE WHO CLAIM SUNDAY IS THE LORD'S DAY

Your challenge here is that if you disagree with the scriptures provided above that prove that "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is the Sabbath day, please provide a single scripture from God's Word showing that "the Lords day" in Revelation 1:10 is referring to Sunday or the first day of the week. Scripture only please as we know what the man-made teachings and traditions of men are in regards to "the Lords day" from sources outside of the bible. This OP is to examine if these outside sources outside of the bible are biblical or not.

God bless...
Enforcing either Saturday or even Sunday in a legal sense is the exact opposite of grace.

John 1:17
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Christians are under grace now and are not required to perform any of these works of the law.

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 4:15
For the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Christians are certainly not under the law, Christians are under grace.
 
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Root of Jesse

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No it wasn't. Did you read the the post you quoted from in post # 592 linked in your last post in post # 616?

As posted earlier....

"As demonstrated from the scriptures already according to the bible Revelation 1:10 "the Lords day" in the Greek word meanings of τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" means (1) the Lords ownership of the day. According to the scriptures alone Jesus claims he is (2) Lord of the Sabbath day because he is the creator of it *Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5; John 1:1-4; 14; Colossians 1:16; Genesis 2:1-3 and Jesus and God (3) claim ownership of the Sabbath day in Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 31:12-18; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:15; Leviticus 23:3; Exodus 31:15; Exodus 20:10. All of the above scriptures are evidence that agree to the interpretation provided from the scriptures alone in Revelation 1:10 that the day the Lord claims ownership over is the Sabbath day. Are you trying to say that Jesus does not claim to be Lord of the Sabbath day when he says in Matthew 12:8 that he is Lord of the Sabbath day claiming authority over the Sabbath and that He does now claim ownership of the Sabbath day when he calls it My holy day which is the meaning of the original Greek of Revelation 1:10 τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" or the Lords ownership of the day?"

................

On the other hand, there is no scripture that says "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. This is a man-made teaching and tradition of some in the early Church only found outside of the scriptures that is not supported anywhere in the bible. As shown above according to the scriptures as shown above "the Lord's day" or the day that Jesus claims to be Lord of and claims ownership of is the Sabbath day. The question then we should all be considering, who do we believe and follow; God or the teachings and traditions of men that have led many to break the commandments of God?

.................

How many scriptures can you count in the response provided above Jesse? What is it here in this post and the scriptures shared in this post with you that you disagree with and why?

Take Care.
Tl;dr. But you answered about the translation of a word, then listed places in Scripture where the word is used. Words don't always mean the same thing. That's why we turn to those closest to the action to provide context. The early church worshiped on Sunday, and the Jews who were bound by the law observed Sabbath rest.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Tl;dr. But you answered about the translation of a word, then listed places in Scripture where the word is used. Words don't always mean the same thing. That's why we turn to those closest to the action to provide context. The early church worshiped on Sunday, and the Jews who were bound by the law observed Sabbath rest.
Well that is not true Jesse. How can you provide an answer from the scriptures if you have no meaning, definition or understanding of what it is your seeking to provide an answer to? Are you trying to say that Jesus does not claim to be Lord of the Sabbath day when he says in Matthew 12:8 that he is Lord of the Sabbath day claiming authority over the Sabbath and that He does now claim ownership of the Sabbath day when he calls it My holy day which is the meaning of the original Greek of Revelation 1:10 τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" or the Lords ownership of the day?"
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Enforcing either Saturday or even Sunday in a legal sense is the exact opposite of grace.

John 1:17
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.

Christians are under grace now and are not required to perform any of these works of the law.

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Romans 4:15
For the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

Christians are certainly not under the law, Christians are under grace.

What has anything here that you have posted David got to do with the OP? No one is telling anyone to enforce anything. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. As posted earlier, obedience to God's words are not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. At the second coming Christs reward is with him *Revelation 22:12. Therefore no one is following God by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments according to John in 1 John 2:3-4. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 according to the new covenant scriptures that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and if we knowingly (James 4:17) break anyone of them according to James we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. According to the scriptures in Romans 3:19-20 we are only "under the law" if we stand guilty before God of breaking the law. Grace therefore according to the scriptures is not a license to sin (break God's law) it is for obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5. Therefore God's new covenant is not a covenant of lawlessness (without law) but a covenant of Grace through faith that leads to obedience in all those who have been born into God's new covenant promise of obedience through faith *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; 1 John 3:6-9.

Take Care.
 
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Root of Jesse

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Well that is not true Jesse. How can you provide an answer from the scriptures if you have no meaning, definition or understanding of what it is your seeking to provide an answer to? Are you trying to say that Jesus does not claim to be Lord of the Sabbath day when he says in Matthew 12:8 that he is Lord of the Sabbath day claiming authority over the Sabbath and that He does now claim ownership of the Sabbath day when he calls it My holy day which is the meaning of the original Greek of Revelation 1:10 τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" or the Lords ownership of the day?"
Well, we turn to those who were there, or who were taught by those who were there, rather than a translation of a translation of what a word means. Jesus is Lord. Period. And we worship Jesus on his Resurrection Day. Not according to some concordance, but to the actions of the apostles and their followers.
My point about your use of concordance is that you're using non-Scripture to prove Scripture, so we're not really "Scripture alone", now, are we?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Well, we turn to those who were there, or who were taught by those who were there, rather than a translation of a translation of what a word means. Jesus is Lord. Period. And we worship Jesus on his Resurrection Day. Not according to some concordance, but to the actions of the apostles and their followers.
My point about your use of concordance is that you're using non-Scripture to prove Scripture, so we're not really "Scripture alone", now, are we?
According to the scriptures Jesse there is only one standard of what is true and what is not true and that is the Word of God *Romans 3:4. We already know what the teachings and traditions of some in the early Church were in regards to their claims that "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. The purpose of this OP is to examine if these claims are true or not true and if they are supported in the scriptures and if these teachings are biblical or not. You have been shown from the biblical interpretation of the Greek from Revelation 1:10 that τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" means (1) the Lords ownership of the day. According to the scriptures alone Jesus claims he is (2) Lord of the Sabbath day because he is the creator of it *Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5; John 1:1-4; 14; Colossians 1:16; Genesis 2:1-3 and Jesus and God (3) claim ownership of the Sabbath day in Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 31:12-18; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:15; Leviticus 23:3; Exodus 31:15; Exodus 20:10. All of the above scriptures are evidence that agree to the interpretation provided from the scriptures alone in Revelation 1:10 that the day the Lord claims ownership over is the Sabbath day. Are you trying to say that Jesus does not claim to be Lord of the Sabbath day when he says in Matthew 12:8 that he is Lord of the Sabbath day claiming authority over the Sabbath and that He does now claim ownership of the Sabbath day when he calls it My holy day which is the meaning of the original Greek of Revelation 1:10 τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" or the Lords ownership of the day?"

................

On the other hand, there is no scripture that says "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. This is a man-made teaching and tradition of some in the early Church only found outside of the scriptures that is not supported anywhere in the bible. As shown above according to the scriptures as shown above "the Lord's day" or the day that Jesus claims to be Lord of and claims ownership of is the Sabbath day. The question then we should all be considering, who do we believe and follow; God or the teachings and traditions of men that have led many to break the commandments of God?

.................

Now what is it that you do not agree with here and why? (Scripture please).
 
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Please correct me what I am missing.

You stated this:



My response

So you don't think the holy day of the Lord is the Lord's day?

Which my assessment still stands
You are splitting hairs my friend.
So you think. The fact that you asked if I don’t think the Lord’s day is Gods holy proves you are only reading what you want in the posts you respond to.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So you think. The fact that you asked if I don’t think the Lord’s day is Gods holy proves you are only reading what you want in the posts you respond to.
I disagree. I'm following your posts and responding directly to your post. I just disagree with you here.

I think we need to look at context and the whole bible is the context in which we should follow. The verse in question is in context with all other scripture which God claimed as His holy day. A slight variation of the name does not change the definition.
 
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Root of Jesse

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According to the scriptures Jesse there is only one standard of what is true and what is not true and that is the Word of God *Romans 3:4. We already know what the teachings and traditions of some in the early Church were in regards to their claims that "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. The purpose of this OP is to examine if these claims are true or not true and if they are supported in the scriptures. You have been shown from the biblical interpretation of the Greek from Revelation 1:10 that τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" means (1) the Lords ownership of the day. According to the scriptures alone Jesus claims he is (2) Lord of the Sabbath day because he is the creator of it *Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5; John 1:1-4; 14; Colossians 1:16; Genesis 2:1-3 and Jesus and God (3) claim ownership of the Sabbath day in Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 31:12-18; Leviticus 19:30; Ezekiel 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:15; Leviticus 23:3; Exodus 31:15; Exodus 20:10. All of the above scriptures are evidence that agree to the interpretation provided from the scriptures alone in Revelation 1:10 that the day the Lord claims ownership over is the Sabbath day. Are you trying to say that Jesus does not claim to be Lord of the Sabbath day when he says in Matthew 12:8 that he is Lord of the Sabbath day claiming authority over the Sabbath and that He does now claim ownership of the Sabbath day when he calls it My holy day which is the meaning of the original Greek of Revelation 1:10 τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ translated as "the Lords day" or the Lords ownership of the day?"

................

On the other hand, there is no scripture that says "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. This is a man-made teaching and tradition of some in the early Church only found outside of the scriptures that is not supported anywhere in the bible. As shown above according to the scriptures as shown above "the Lord's day" or the day that Jesus claims to be Lord of and claims ownership of is the Sabbath day. The question then we should all be considering, who do we believe and follow; God or the teachings and traditions of men that have led many to break the commandments of God?

.................

Now what is it that you do not agree with here and why? (Scripture please).
Your translation. There is no Scripture saying tat your Greek words mean what you want them to mean. And there ain't no Scripture saying that the Lord's day is Saturday, either. You keep conflating the Sabbath and the Lord's Day. I have clearly explained the difference.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Your translation. There is no Scripture saying tat your Greek words mean what you want them to mean. And there ain't no Scripture saying that the Lord's day is Saturday, either. You keep conflating the Sabbath and the Lord's Day. I have clearly explained the difference.
I believe the scriptures shared with you Jesse in post # 631 which are God's Word not my words disagree with your claims here that are your words arguing against God's Word. Let me ask you again, what is it in the linked post above that are God's Word and not my words that you disagree with and why? (scripture please)
 
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BABerean2

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I asked you earlier what do you think the new covenant is as shown from the scriptures? All I got back from you was silence and a change of topic seeking to take the OP thread off topic again from the Lords day.


Really?

How many times have you quoted from 1 John, but you ignored the text below?

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


How many times have you ignored the writing of the Early Church Fathers found below?



Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)



 
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@BABerean2 please stay on topic to the OP. I have tried asking you politely many times now. You have repeatedly posted this same post throughout this thread many times now which has already been addressed in detail so I have not ignored 1 John 3:23 but have addressed your interpretation of these scriptures in the linked posts provided below that you simply ignore and refuse to responded to in post # 569; post # 577 and post # 592 linked. So I gather your not interested in discussing your posts. All you have done here is to repeat what you have already posted without addressing anything from the scriptures shared with you in the linked posts above that disagree with your teachings in regards to lawlessness (without law or that God's 10 commandments have been abolished). As posted earlier we already know what the teachings and traditions of some in the early Church were in regards to their claims that "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. The purpose of this OP is to examine if these claims are true or not true according to the scriptures and if they are supported in the scriptures and if these teachings are biblical or not biblical. May I please request again that we stay on topic to the OP here. I do not mind a little off topic diversion to the Sabbath or Sunday but we should remember the toptic of the OP and try and seek to keep the discussion in that direction which is to prove from the scriptures that Sunday is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10.

Take Care
 
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Root of Jesse

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I believe the scriptures shared with you Jesse in post # 631 which are God's Word not my words disagree with your claims here that are your words arguing against God's Word. Let me ask you again, what is it in the linked post above that are God's Word and not my words that you disagree with and why? (scripture please)
I don't disagree with Scripture, only your understanding of it. Who taught you that? I'll wait for your answer. My authority is the Church, for Christ gave that authority.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I don't disagree with Scripture, only your understanding of it. Who taught you that? I'll wait for your answer. My authority is the Church, for Christ gave that authority.
And yet here you are not able to show me what it is in that you disagree with in post # 631 in the scriptures shared with you there after I asked you what you disagree with? Our only authority according to the scriptures is Jesus Christ and His Word which we are sanctified by (John 17:17) not the authority of men that disagree with the teachings of the bible. This is shown very clearly in Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
 
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I disagree. I'm following your posts and responding directly to your post. I just disagree with you here.

I think we need to look at context and the whole bible is the context in which we should follow. The verse in question is in context with all other scripture which God claimed as His holy day. A slight variation of the name does not change the definition.
Once again you missed. Find where I said I believed something and post that. Key word believe
 
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And yet here you are not even able to show me what it is in that you disagree with in the post and scriptures shared with you after I asked you what you disagree with? Our only authority according to the scriptures is Christ and His Word which we are sanctified by (John 17:17) not the authority of men that disagree with the teachings of the bible. This is shown very clearly in Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
Case closed. They're true.
 
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