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"Magog" just means "the land of Gog". And Gog is ISRAEL, in the LXX.

It is patently obvious that Gog's battle was to be a CIVIL WAR . If "every man's hand shall be against HIS BROTHER" (Ez. 38:21), then if this was to be a battle taking place in Israel, then it follows that Israelites would be fighting against fellow Israelites.
 
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Douggg

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Gog's battle is long over. It took 7 months after AD 70 to bury all of Simon's dead soldiers to "cleanse the land" of Israel of human remains, and it took 7 years to finally burn as cooking fuel all the Roman war embankments of the siege wall and the siege towers, since every tree for 10 miles around Jerusalem was cut down to use in the war against the city.
Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is latter days, latter years. Ezekiel 38:8 Ezekiel 38:16.

The way to know for certain is Ezekiel 39:17-20 is the Armageddon event and corresponds to Revelation 19:17-18.

In verses 21-29, is Jesus Himself speaking having returned to earth, having just executed judgment on the heather. verse 28 corresponds to Matthew 24:31.

In verses 21-29, Jesus is recounting the 2000 years of Jewish diaspora, because of rejecting him. But have since, during the 7 years, have returned to good graces, as during that time they will have embraced Him and the gospel of salvation.




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Douggg

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Gog's battle is long over. It took 7 months after AD 70 to bury all of Simon's dead soldiers to "cleanse the land" of Israel of human remains, and it took 7 years to finally burn as cooking fuel all the Roman war embankments of the siege wall and the siege towers, since every tree for 10 miles around Jerusalem was cut down to use in the war against the city.
No place in Israel called Hamongog - yet. Here lies Gog's army. Tourists to Israel visiting the site.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

Also no city in Israel named Hamonah.

16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

But the physical proof that Gog-Magog has/has not happen yet, is that it should be possible to dig up the bones of hundreds of thousands buried remains of Gog's army.
 
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Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39 is latter days, latter years. Ezekiel 38:8 Ezekiel 38:16.

EXACTLY. Just as Hebrews 1:2 identified THOSE DAYS BACK THEN as being the "LAST days" when God had spoken by His Son unto his own people.
James 5:3 also wrote accusingly to the rich men of his generation who had "heaped treasure together IN THE LAST DAYS".

This was to be ISRAEL'S "LAST STATE", when they would be afflicted by a seven-fold increase in demonic oppression, just as Christ foretold for that generation in Israel, who during its "first state" had its demons cast out of it by Christ and His disciples (Matthew 12:43-45).

Why do you think I Peter 4:7 told his readers that "the END OF ALL THINGS IS AT HAND"?
Why do you think that I John 2:18 told his readers that "IT IS THE LAST HOUR" at that point in time?
It was the wrapping up of all things related to Old Covenant Judaism in ISRAEL'S "LATTER DAYS".

This is not to be confused with the final resurrection at the close of fallen mankind's history, however.
 
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they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

That's "THEY" who would call it Hamongog. Not necessarily would that be US today calling it that, almost 2,000 years down the line. The name would not necessarily have been preserved for almost 2,000 years so that it would still be called by the name of "Hamongog" today. Cities do have name changes over time.

And I am waiting for the Tall el Hammam excavation project to encounter some of these remains of Gog's army, since they have been digging in that very region of the kikar of the Jordan since 2005, finding evidence for the city of Sodom's location. That fertile Jordan Valley at the top of the Dead Sea is the "Valley of the passengers on the east of the sea" where Gog's army was buried in order to "cleanse the land" back in AD 70. From antiquity, the Jordan Valley region was the crossroads of the trade routes running up the east side of the Dead Sea. Everyone traveling across that Jordan Valley region just after AD 70 would have been holding their noses at the stench of rotting bodies being buried there.

I find it VERY significant that Jerusalem, "which spiritually is called SODOM and Egypt" (Rev. 11:8) ended up having all the dead of ISRAEL'S army of Gog buried in the very same valley of Jordan where the city of Sodom once sat.

I have seriously considered contacting Dr. Steven Collins who is co-director of this Tall el Hammam excavation project, and asking him if its possible to concentrate on searching for a bunch of mass graves in that very region which would have belonged to Gog's army under Simon bar Gioras.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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When Titus' army took Jerusalem, he did NOT order the temple destroyed. His soldiers did it on their own, as there were rumors the Jews had stashed gold between its stones. Thus, they pulled it apart, stone by stone, (and found no gold) thus fulfilling Jesus prophecy that not one stone would be left upon another. The abomination of desolation did NOT occur then; no Roman set up a statue in the temple & declared himself to be God. Such an event wouldve been widely known & recorded.
Matthew 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”.

Surely, Jesus answered the disciples' question of when the temple buildings would be destroyed, right? You wouldn't try to say that He didn't answer their question about the sign of His coming and of the end of the age, right? So, it makes no sense to deny that He answered their other question as well. So, where (in which verses) do you think He answered it, if not in verses 15-22?
 
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Jerryhuerta

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No; the events are literal, as proven by those parts of the Olivet Discourse which have literally come to pass to the letter. When Jesus was addressing His disciples then, He was not speaking in parables.

Your evading the issue. I never stated the events weren't literal. My issue is to whom they pertain. Christ is the mediator of the NC, not the Old. So he is mediating between God and His Church under the New Covenant. You need to grasp Hebrews as well as other scripture. The seven churches are seven epochs representing the seven months between the spring and autumnal festivals. The Revelation is about the Church in this age.
 
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robycop3

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Jew became a generic term back at the time of Mordecai. Not necessarily of the tribe of Judah. For the Jews to embrace the person as the promised messiah, King of Israel, they will have to think he is of the tribe of Judah, and descended from David.
He might jolly well be able to do that, as he will have Satanic power.
 
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The seven churches are seven epochs representing the seven months between the spring and autumnal festivals. The Revelation is about the Church in this age.

This kind of interpretation goes beyond Christ's own interpretation of the vision he gave to John. He only went as far as saying "...the seven candlesticks which thou sawest ARE the seven churches." If Jesus had intended to extend the metaphor by saying the churches then further represented "seven epochs" which would then further represent "seven months between spring and autumn festivals", He would have said so. But He didn't. That is going WAY BEYOND what Jesus said. How do you justify adding to Jesus's own interpretation of the vision He gave to John?
 
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robycop3

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"Magog" just means "the land of Gog". And Gog is ISRAEL, in the LXX.

It is patently obvious that Gog's battle was to be a CIVIL WAR . If "every man's hand shall be against HIS BROTHER" (Ez. 38:21), then if this was to be a battle taking place in Israel, then it follows that Israelites would be fighting against fellow Israelites.

please read Ezekiel 38 very closely, then look up the nations named that don't now exist.
ACTUALLY, Gog seems to be a generic name for all the kings & leaders of the land of Magog, which was likely ancient Lydia. His allies Rosh, Meshech,Tubal, Togarmah, & Gomer were all in what's now Russia, while Persia, Libya, & Ethiopia still exist today.

The antichrist will broker some kinda deal which will cause both Israel & her Moslem enemies to disarm. BUT THE ANCIENT HATRED WILL STILL BE THERE! Russia has been somewhat cash-strapped lately, & will still be then, when the Moslems will appeal to Russia to lead them against the disarmed Israel, which will then be "a land of unwalled villages". They'll offer Russia trillions of petrodollars to arm & lead them, & Russia will accept the offer, & they'll plan & execute their attack swiftly, before the antichrist can interfere. But GOD shall rescue Israel, destroying 5/6 of the attacking army, with the rest fleeing in terror. Israel will find some seven years' worth of fuel in the abandoned equipment & fuel dumps set up along the attack path. AND ISRAEL SHALL KNOW IT WAS GOD WHO SAVED THEM ! At last, the Jews will come to JESUS!
 
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robycop3

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Matthew 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” 3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”.

Surely, Jesus answered the disciples' question of when the temple buildings would be destroyed, right? You wouldn't try to say that He didn't answer their question about the sign of His coming and of the end of the age, right? So, it makes no sense to deny that He answered their other question as well. So, where (in which verses) do you think He answered it, if not in verses 15-22?
I'm not denying it; I'm saying that ALL His answer hasn't yet been fulfilled, but it WILL be fulfilled as literally as what HAS been fulfilled.
 
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robycop3

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Your evading the issue. I never stated the events weren't literal. My issue is to whom they pertain. Christ is the mediator of the NC, not the Old. So he is mediating between God and His Church under the New Covenant. You need to grasp Hebrews as well as other scripture. The seven churches are seven epochs representing the seven months between the spring and autumnal festivals. The Revelation is about the Church in this age.
MMRRPP ! WRONG !

The 7 churches were congregations that existed at the time the Rev was given. remember, Jesus told John to send each one a letter & told him what to pot in each letter. There are TYPES of all 7 of them existing today. The "7church ages" doctrine is as phony as preterism.
 
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look up the nations named that don't now exist.

In the LXX, it was going to be individual members with ancestry from those named nations of Persia Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer, Togarmah, etc. It says Gog's army would be composed of "Persians, Ethiopians, Libyans," etc.. This predicted individuals with that ancestry who would be joining Simon bar Gioras' army. This Zealot leader had gone over all Israel and Idumea, etc.. collecting malcontents and conscripted soldiers from far and wide to join him in his AD 69 assault on Jerusalem. His army amounted to around 40,000 at that point, as Josephus said, which was the largest of any of the other Zealot leaders. He "took a prey" and confiscated "spoil" to supply his army from every quarter of Israel.

ALL of Simon's soldiers were "handling swords" (Ezekiel 38:4). This was the typical weapon of choice of the Zealots and the vicious sicarii. The word "sicarii" derives from the Latin word "sica", meaning a short curved dagger. We have uncovered examples of this type of curved short dagger, which the Zealot sicarii were experts at wielding against their enemies.

The word "rosh" or "ros" is an adjective meaning a "chief" prince, or a notable prince of high rank. It's NOT a proper noun representing a nation. To insert modern day Russia into this prophecy is pure conjecture.

Simon bar Gioras's name was on the coins minted in Jerusalem dated from AD 66 at the beginning of the Zealot rebellion. Josephus writes that not only slaves and robbers composed Simon's army, but "a great many of the populace were obedient to him AS THEIR KING" (Wars, 4.9.4). Simon bar Gioras fulfilled the whole "chief prince" title in those great tribulation years from AD 66 until AD 70. Even the Romans acknowledged Simon as being the titular "King of Israel" when they captured him in Jerusalem.
 
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I'm not denying it; I'm saying that ALL His answer hasn't yet been fulfilled, but it WILL be fulfilled as literally as what HAS been fulfilled.
Okay, so can you tell me which verses in the Olivet Discourse (whether from Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 or all 3) that you believe He answered the question of when the temple building would be destroyed?
 
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robycop3

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In the LXX, it was going to be individual members with ancestry from those named nations of Persia Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer, Togarmah, etc. It says Gog's army would be composed of "Persians, Ethiopians, Libyans," etc.. This predicted individuals with that ancestry who would be joining Simon bar Gioras' army. This Zealot leader had gone over all Israel and Idumea, etc.. collecting malcontents and conscripted soldiers from far and wide to join him in his AD 69 assault on Jerusalem. His army amounted to around 40,000 at that point, as Josephus said, which was the largest of any of the other Zealot leaders. He "took a prey" and confiscated "spoil" to supply his army from every quarter of Israel.

ALL of Simon's soldiers were "handling swords" (Ezekiel 38:4). This was the typical weapon of choice of the Zealots and the vicious sicarii. The word "sicarii" derives from the Latin word "sica", meaning a short curved dagger. We have uncovered examples of this type of curved short dagger, which the Zealot sicarii were experts at wielding against their enemies.

The word "rosh" or "ros" is an adjective meaning a "chief" prince, or a notable prince of high rank. It's NOT a proper noun representing a nation. To insert modern day Russia into this prophecy is pure conjecture.

Simon bar Gioras's name was on the coins minted in Jerusalem dated from AD 66 at the beginning of the Zealot rebellion. Josephus writes that not only slaves and robbers composed Simon's army, but "a great many of the populace were obedient to him AS THEIR KING" (Wars, 4.9.4). Simon bar Gioras fulfilled the whole "chief prince" title in those great tribulation years from AD 66 until AD 70. Even the Romans acknowledged Simon as being the titular "King of Israel" when they captured him in Jerusalem.
Simon was neither a Jewish nor Roman prince. He had no miracle-working false prophet as a deputy. He didn't issue any "mark of the beast" And he was not cast alive into hell; he was executed, likely by decapitation, by the Romans in 71 AD. No man nor men will be able to defeat the TRUE beast; he & his false prophet sidekick will be defeated only when Jesus returns & casts them both alive into hell.
There were a people called the "Sarmatians" in what's now Southern Russia who were also called "Ras, Rashu, & Rus".
 
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robycop3

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Okay, so can you tell me which verses in the Olivet Discourse (whether from Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 or all 3) that you believe He answered the question of when the temple building would be destroyed?
He simply said that not stone would be left upon another; he didn't say when.
But in Luke 21, He proclaimed "days of vengeance" upon that generation of Jews, holding them responsible for the murders of every righteous person, from Abel up to that time.
 
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robycop3

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By your interpretation my friend ;)
No interp to it. The definition of the AOD was set in the 160s BC when Antiochus Epiphanes, the Seleucid ruler of Judea at the time, entered the temple, set up a statue of Zeus in it, & sacrificed a pig upon the altar. Thus, the antichrist will enter the new temple the Jews will build, set up a statue of himself in it, stop the sacrifices the Jews had been doing, & declare himself God. (I can't think of a greater abomination to God than a human declaring himself God no matter where he is.)
 
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Simon was neither a Jewish nor Roman prince. He had no miracle-working false prophet as a deputy. He didn't issue any "mark of the beast"

I never said that Simon bar Gioras issued a "mark", or had a "miracle-working false prophet". This just demonstrates that you, (like many others) mistakenly can't tell the difference between the Rev. 13 two-horned "Beast coming out of the earth" from "Gog, the chief prince". You want to mash them both together and make them be the same, but they aren't. That is an arbitrary decision on your part, that has no scriptural foundation for doing so.

You have mistaken that any Beast at all was cast alive into Hell. The Judean Land Beast / aka the False Prophet and the Judean Scarlet Beast were both cast alive into the "Lake of Fire". That's NOT Hell. We know this LOF could NOT have been Hell, because death and Hell (the grave) were cast INTO the LOF (Rev. 20:14).

Jerusalem itself and Mount Zion, the site of the Temple, was said to have God's furnace of fire in the city, even back in Isaiah 31:9. The Lord's "FIRE is in ZION, and His FURNACE in JERUSALEM." That means the Lake of Fire was a LOCAL and TEMPORAL event for Jerusalem - not an eternal state expected for the wicked.

You are also artificially inserting a "statue" as the abomination that made desolate. Statues can't accomplish a single thing. Luke interpreted Christ's statement found in the other gospels about what the "abomination of desolation" was, by saying bluntly that it was going to be ARMIES surrounding Jerusalem.

Back in Antiochus Ephiphanes' days, the abomination of desolation was exactly the same as it was later on in AD 66 - "when ye shall see Jerusalem surrounded by ARMIES". Remember, in the case of Antiochus, it says that "ARMS shall stand on his part..." Living armies are most definitely able to make things desolate by their presence and activities. Statues? - not possible.
 
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