the great Jewish "distress"

RandyPNW said:

You seem to see this "restoration of Israel" differently than I do. You re-define "Israel" as if it includes Gentile nations. I don't. Sorry, that's confusing and wrong, in my opinion.

Jewish Israel will be turned to Christian Israel. The Jewish ethnicity will remain as such. But the nation, politically, will become Christian.

Click to expand...

I include Gentiles because the Gospel of Jesus does so. As Paul makes clear in Ephesians 2:11-18, Romans 11:13-24

Nowhere does the Bible say that the Jewish nation; the current State of Israel, will become Christian. Not even with all the Arab and wannabe Jew citizens removed.
What we are told in many prophesies, is about their virtual demise and how only a small remnant will survive. THEN the holy Land will be repopulated by the Christian peoples. As many Prophesies tell us.

This belief of a Jewish redemption has been widely promoted, as it is an immutable tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, theory. The Bible never says either of those fanciful ideas will happen.

keras said:

It is God’s plan that the House of Judah, that is: the Jewish people, remain as an identifiable people group to fulfil the tasks assigned to them. In these present days, one task has been to replant and rebuild the Land.

Click to expand...

It amazes me how some folks know for a 100% fact what God’s plan is.

Seems a tiny bit arrogant to me.

.Jeremiah. said:

It amazes me how some folks know for a 100% fact what God’s plan is.

Seems a tiny bit arrogant to me.

Click to expand...

I get it all from the Bible.
Seems quite sensible to me.

keras said:

I get it all from the Bible.
Seems quite sensible to me.

Click to expand...

Of course it would.
But then people who disagree with YOUR assessment, also think their view is quite sensible.

Misunderstanding the Bible has created 1000s of Christian sects.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not siding with the other guy.
You’re both completely wrong.

imo

RandyPNW said:

I don't know if *any* prophecies tell us Christian peoples will inhabit the Holy Land,

Click to expand...

Here's a small selection:
Psalms 91:14-16 When you call, I shall answer, rescue you in times of trouble.

Isaiah 24:4 Truly You have been a refuge for Your people in their time of distress. A shelter from the tempest, shade from the heat.

Psalms 20:6-8 Victory will come to the Lord and those who rely on Him, will rise up and stand firm.

Psalms 70:4 Let all who seek the Lord rejoice! All who long for His rescue, will shout: All glory to God!

Isaiah 57:15b I shall revive the spirit of the humble and restore the courage of the broken.

Jeremiah 51:50 You that escaped the sword, go – do not linger. Remember the Lord from afar and let Jerusalem come to your mind.

Isaiah 46:4 Till you grow old, I shall carry you away to safety.

Psalm 97:10-12 The Lord’s servants are kept safe. A harvest of light comes to the righteous.

Psalm 107:1-43 Give thanks, you who are redeemed by the Lord, saved from the power of the enemy and gathered from all the world.......the poor He lifts clear of troubles.

Isaiah 24:14-16a People from all over the world will acclaim the Lord, from the coasts and islands, they sing; giving glory to the Righteous One.

Isaiah 49:9-11 I say to those in exile: go free, come out to a Land of plenty. It will not be too hot, the Lord who loves them, will guide them.

Isaiah 52:11-12 Go out of Babylon....you will not flee in haste, the Lord will guide and guard you.

Zechariah 10:8-9 Though My people are dispersed in far off lands, they will remember Me, for I shall whistle and call them in, for I have delivered them.

Isaiah 49:22-23 I shall beckon to the nations, they will carry you and serve you. They will bow before you and none who look to Me will be disappointed.

Isaiah 60:9 Vessels assemble from the coasts and islands, bringing the children of Israel, their wealth with them – from far away.

Jeremiah 30:10 & 18 Do not be afraid, My servants, I will bring you back safe from afar. I shall restore your fortunes, your towns will be rebuilt.

Jeremiah 32:37-41 I shall gather My people from every place where I have banished them. I will do them good, when I plant them in this Land.

Ezekiel 20:34-36 I shall bring you out of the nations....to the Meeting place in the desert. I shall judge you and those who revolt and rebel will not enter that Land.

Jeremiah 33:12-13 In this Land, there will once more be heard sounds of joy and gladness. My people will offer praise and thanksgiving in the House of the Lord. In this place, ruined and empty of people and animals, there will again be flocks of people and sheep, in all of the Land of Israel.

Isaiah 32:15-17 Then the Spirit from on high will come upon us. The Land will flourish and justice and righteousness will fill the Land, peace and quiet rest will prevail forever.

Colossians 1:11-12 In His glorious might, may He give you ample strength to meet with fortitude and patience whatever comes. Give joyful thanks to the Father who has made you fit to share the heritage of His people in the Kingdom of light.
Reference: Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged.

.Jeremiah. said:

But then people who disagree with YOUR assessment, also think their view is quite sensible.

Click to expand...

Here is what the Lord tells us His Plan is:

The reality is that the Bible is the only reliable guide that we have, discount it and you are in the mire of guesswork and conjecture. The Bible gives us the right way to live and does have a lot of prophecy, some accurately fulfilled, most still future. The prophet Daniel 12:9-10, says that the latter days prophecies will be kept secret and sealed till the end time, but those who seek the truth and study the Word will understand.

Isaiah prophesied about 75 generations ago; Isaiah 24:1 Be warned, the Lord is about to lay waste to the earth, to devastate it and scatter its inhabitants.
By now, perhaps 1 billion people will have read this prophesy and it never happened to them. Why should we think it could happen to this generation?

There are several possibilities that could bring about a worldwide disaster: a nuke war, a comet strike, earthquakes, volcanoes, a Coronal Mass Ejection, etc. Everyone can see that there will soon have to be some kind of severe shakeup to sort out the world’s problems.

With Bible prophesy, I have found that it is necessary to clear the mind of humanistic ideas and look at it from what God’s purpose might be:

1/ God created everything. Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 66:1-2

2/ He does have a plan for His creation. Psalms 33:11

3/ That plan seems to be the formation of a group of beings like Himself, who freely choose to love and serve Him. Isaiah 43:10

4/ Those who refuse to acknowledge Him, may face destruction. Deuteronomy 7:10, Romans 9:22-29

God’s plan involved choosing one righteous man, Abraham, who demonstrated real faith in God and using his descendants to be a nation that would be ‘a light to the nations’, showing everyone the right way to live. Unfortunately, the Israelites did not do this and they divided into two nations, who both went into exile from the Holy Land. The return of Judah has started, still to be completed, but Israel is at present still scattered among the nations. When their decreed exile punishment is completed very soon, as we are told in Ezekiel 4:4-5 and Leviticus 26:18, then all the twelve tribes, including people from every race, nation and language, will be able to go and live in their heritage, in peace and prosperity. Isaiah 35:1-10, Ezekiel 34:11-31


The Lord’s Holy Land, Deut. 11:12 must be cleared and cleansed; at the first Exodus the people were tasked to do that, Deut. 6:19 but they failed to complete the job and the remaining inhabitants induced the Israelites into idolatry.
This time, the Lord Himself will punish His enemies and clear all the area promised to the Patriarchs. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, 2 Chronicles 7:14, Ezekiel 30:1-5 and the more than 100 prophesies that describe the forthcoming Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, a worldwide judgement/punishment by fire that will fulfil Psalms 83:1-18, Isaiah 24:1-23, and the Sixth Seal of Revelation 6:12-17.

Then, the Lord’s faithful Christian people will live in the Land, being all that He originally planned for them, but the rest of the world – slowly recovering from this terrible fire judgement, will form a One World government.
The rest of God's Plan, is as described in Revelation 8 to 22.

RandyPNW said:

None of them claim anything more than Jews will be regathered to Israel in a time of restoration.

Click to expand...

The Jews are there now, but in apostasy. They will be punished and only a remnant will survive. Romans 9:27 and 20 other Prophesies.

Our heritage; the promises of God:
Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ we have been given our share in the heritage, as was decreed in His design …for it was God’s will that we, who were the first to set our hope on Jesus and to praise His glory.
And, in Christ, you Christians also, once you believed and received the Holy Spirit, the promise of the inheritance that will be ours, when God has redeemed all of His own, to His glory and praise.


Ephesians 3:6 Through the Gospel, the Gentiles are joint heirs with the Jews, part of the same body, sharers together in the promises made through Jesus.

Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit of God affirms that we are His children and if children, then also the heirs of God and fellow heirs with Jesus, but we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory.

Romans 8:19 The Created universe is waiting with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed.


Our greatest hope as born again Christians, is the promise of eternal life. John 3:16,Titus 3:5-7, +

But we also inherit the Land promises, Psalms 37:29, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Ezekiel 34:11-31 It is we Christians, from every tribe, race, nation and language, that are the vast multitude seen waving palm branches in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9

We are the ones who have passed thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster and have earned the white garments by standing firm in our faith. Revelation 7:14

Note: in Romans 8:19, that God’s true children are not yet made known, Jesus will come with His winnowing fork and sift the wheat from the chaff. Matthew 3:12

Those Christians who stood strong in their faith when He comes in fire, Luke 12:49, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, are the wheat that will be gathered into the granary of the holy Land. The chaff of the ungodly peoples will be as ashes under our feet. Isaiah 66:17, Malachi 4:3, 2 Peter 3:7

keras said:

Here's a small selection:
Psalms 91:14-16 When you call, I shall answer, rescue you in times of trouble.

Isaiah 24:4 Truly You have been a refuge for Your people in their time of distress. A shelter from the tempest, shade from the heat.

Psalms 20:6-8 Victory will come to the Lord and those who rely on Him, will rise up and stand firm.

Psalms 70:4 Let all who seek the Lord rejoice! All who long for His rescue, will shout: All glory to God!

Isaiah 57:15b I shall revive the spirit of the humble and restore the courage of the broken.y

Jeremiah 51:50 You that escaped the sword, go – do not linger. Remember the Lord from afar and let Jerusalem come to your mind.

Isaiah 46:4 Till you grow old, I shall carry you away to safety.

Psalm 97:10-12 The Lord’s servants are kept safe. A harvest of light comes to the righteous.

Psalm 107:1-43 Give thanks, you who are redeemed by the Lord, saved from the power of the enemy and gathered from all the world.......the poor He lifts clear of troubles.

Isaiah 24:14-16a People from all over the world will acclaim the Lord, from the coasts and islands, they sing; giving glory to the Righteous One.

Isaiah 49:9-11 I say to those in exile: go free, come out to a Land of plenty. It will not be too hot, the Lord who loves them, will guide them.

Isaiah 52:11-12 Go out of Babylon....you will not flee in haste, the Lord will guide and guard you.

Zechariah 10:8-9 Though My people are dispersed in far off lands, they will remember Me, for I shall whistle and call them in, for I have delivered them.

Isaiah 49:22-23 I shall beckon to the nations, they will carry you and serve you. They will bow before you and none who look to Me will be disappointed.

Isaiah 60:9 Vessels assemble from the coasts and islands, bringing the children of Israel, their wealth with them – from far away.

Jeremiah 30:10 & 18 Do not be afraid, My servants, I will bring you back safe from afar. I shall restore your fortunes, your towns will be rebuilt.

Jeremiah 32:37-41 I shall gather My people from every place where I have banished them. I will do them good, when I plant them in this Land.

Ezekiel 20:34-36 I shall bring you out of the nations....to the Meeting place in the desert. I shall judge you and those who revolt and rebel will not enter that Land.

Jeremiah 33:12-13 In this Land, there will once more be heard sounds of joy and gladness. My people will offer praise and thanksgiving in the House of the Lord. In this place, ruined and empty of people and animals, there will again be flocks of people and sheep, in all of the Land of Israel.

Isaiah 32:15-17 Then the Spirit from on high will come upon us. The Land will flourish and justice and righteousness will fill the Land, peace and quiet rest will prevail forever.

Colossians 1:11-12 In His glorious might, may He give you ample strength to meet with fortitude and patience whatever comes. Give joyful thanks to the Father who has made you fit to share the heritage of His people in the Kingdom of light.
Reference: Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged.

Click to expand...

You really think the creator of the universe cares about a country or a land? He cares about people. ALL people. Individually.

You really think the omnipotent creator of the universe, who wishes to save ALL people, is interested in a patch of sand on a sphere of rock spinning in space?

The Jewish people destroyed the Word, that they were entrusted with, for selfish purposes.

The caring for that Word was passed on to a new church.

That new church has done the same damage to the Word.

So, even though the Lord loves ALL people everywhere, once all connection to Him is lost, He must let that dead church collapse and bring a new one into existence. (The “new heaven” and “new earth”)

Misunderstanding and misinterpretation, often out of ignorance, sometimes on purpose, is the cause of collapsing churches. But the Lord always provides for HIS church to live.

.Jeremiah. said:

You really think the omnipotent creator of the universe, who wishes to save ALL people, is interested in a patch of sand on a sphere of rock spinning in space?

Click to expand...

Yes. Because Deuteronomy 11:11 says His eyes are always upon the holy Land.
Do you think the focus of the world upon the Middle East is just coincidence?
Very soon, the Lord says He will send fire to clear and cleanse His Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43 and his righteous peoples will migrate there and will live there, in peace and prosperity; blessed by the Lord.

That IS what is prophesied and it will happen.

keras said:

Yes. Because Deuteronomy 11:11 says His eyes are always upon the holy Land.
Do you think the focus of the world upon the Middle East is just coincidence?
Very soon, the Lord says He will send fire to clear and cleanse His Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43 and his righteous peoples will migrate there and will live there, in peace and prosperity; blessed by the Lord.

That IS what is prophesied and it will happen.

Click to expand...

One last try.

So, you think there is “a holy land”?

You think the Lord will “send fire” anywhere, anytime?

.Jeremiah. said:

So, you think there is “a holy land”?

Click to expand...

The Bible certainly says so. It was given to Abraham; Genesis 15:18
His descendants by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, as well as by ethnicity will inherit all of the holy Land.
We will be His people, His witnesses, Isaiah 43:8-13, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

.Jeremiah. said:

You think the Lord will “send fire” anywhere, anytime?

Click to expand...

No. He will send His fiery wrath on the Appointed Day. At mid day Middle Eastern time. Zephaniah 2:4
He will destroy the Islamic confederation who will attempt to wipe Israel off the map. Psalms 83, Psalms 7:12-16, Isaiah 66:15-17, Ezekiel 7:14, Revelation 6:12-17

keras said:

The Bible certainly says so. It was given to Abraham; Genesis 15:18
His descendants by faith, Galatians 3:26-29, as well as by ethnicity will inherit all of the holy Land.
We will be His people, His witnesses, Isaiah 43:8-13, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

No. He will send His fiery wrath on the Appointed Day. At mid day Middle Eastern time. Zephaniah 2:4
He will destroy the Islamic confederation who will attempt to wipe Israel off the map. Psalms 83, Psalms 7:12-16, Isaiah 66:15-17, Ezekiel 7:14, Revelation 6:12-17

Click to expand...

Oh

.Jeremiah. said:

So, you think there is “a holy land”?

Click to expand...

Holy in that it is set apart for God who has attached His name to it. Which is why Israel continues to exist, not because of it's own self worth, but because God declared Himself to it.