Clare: ""2) You do understand the full and complete New Covenant revelation of the NT (i.e., orthodox Christianity) regarding law keeping, right?
That it made no one righteous in God's sight, that it only condemned them for imperfect law keeping, it being a curse for all who relied on it (Galatians 3:10)."
This is not only for Clare, this is for everyone in the discussion here.
Clare and Randy, seem to think lots of discussion is necessary, when discussing about the standard of righteousness ( as per the thread title)
All are proven by God to be under sin, and the statement from God is, " there is none righteous,, no, not one."..
Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Now, here are the verses that described the purpose God gave the law, but that the law was not made for a righteous man, ( as none were righteous, no not, one) but then the law was entirely to, and for the purpose of proving all are under sin, for being contrary to the sound doctrine of the revealed Gospel of Christ..
1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
The law then as told, was added because of transgressions ( all are transgressors and that is why Isaiah 53, the Lord lays on the Son of God, the iniquity of us all..
Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Then it is also told, that law could not give life, and righteousness would have been by the law, but it was a schoolmaster, to bring us to Christ by faith.
Then, what was done under the schoolmaster, is put away, to now put on Christ, this then means there is neither Jew nor gentile, but all are one in Jesus Christ and have been baptized into Christ..
Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Then the law of commandments contained in ordinances is abolished, joining the Jew and the Gentile together as one new man, ( in the new covenant of Christ) in one body by the cross which killed the emnity which we had against God..
Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Now not written in tables of stone by the letter and in ordinances, but the law written ( by the Spirit of Christ given) in the heart in fleshy tables of the heart ( as He gives us a new soft heart of flesh, taking the stony heart away,and a new Spirit and the devil spirit flees)..
2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Speaking of the standard of righteousness? That ministration of condemnation, was still glory, as it was from God, but the ministration of righteousness ( righteousness through the faith of Christ given) exceeds in glory because it is the ministration of the Spirit for us ( and in us)..
2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
Israel continues in blindness, ( not submitting themselves to the righteousness which is in Christ) because of a vail over the heart, but the Spirit of the Lord gives us the liberty ( from sin and death/the weakness of the law (Romans 8.) and we now with open face behold, as in a glass, the glory of the Lord, to be changed into the same image, by the Spirit of the Lord..
2 Corinthians 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Remember they are still under that schoolmaster ( the law) because to them, that which is perfect, never came. Then what is in part has to be done away with, the understanding as a child, and the doing of childish things ( the transgressions in the law) and then we shall know, as also God knows us..
1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Here is what occured, Jesus magnified the law, in front of Israel, and made it honourable.
This then is to the people who know righteousness, the people in whose heart is the law ( the Son of God and then all who become one with Him perfectly) and the Gentiles circumcision ( of Christ) makes their uncircumcision, circumcision, by the keeping of the righteousness of the law, and the Jewish person ( or anyone) who breaks the law ( of its righteousness when magnified and honourable) is counted uncircumcision).
Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Isaiah 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
I know people have poor memories, so I will repeat 2 Corinthians 3:9 for us, the first ministration is condemnation, this is why Romans 8:1-4, tells us, what the law COULD NOT DO IN THAT IT WAS WEAK THROUGH THE FLESH, that Christ condemned sin in the flesh ( we were held in the ministration of condemnation prior to this) and then there is no w no condemnation to them in Christ who stopped the previous ministration of condemnation, by walking after the flesh. Sin is condemned in the flesh by the way as exampled, that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us who do walk not after the flesh ministration 9 first covenant) but those who walk after the Spirit ( of Christ in us which is the new covenant written in our heart of the law of Christ)
2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Then ( not to all but to some it is given to hear) the ones who hear the word of Christ ( the word of faith and righteousness and truth ) believe on the Fathers testimonies for us, to not come into that same condemnation, but to pass from death unto life.
Because by the original offence of Adam, came condemnation upon all men to the judgement of death, and then by the righteousness ( of Christ, giving none offence) comes justification to life.
Here is the conclusion of that, we know we have passed from that death unto life, because we love the brothers, and the ones who fail at times/occasion to love their brother, abide not in Gods love, but in death ( still)...
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
Clare: "that God's relationship with Israel was cut off because of her unbelief (Romans 9:30-33, Romans 11:20, 23), not because of her failure to keep the Law."
Unbelief was also the failure of keeping the righteousness of the law, which they could not, as it is a ministration of condemnation, because no belief was given, that came when the Messiah condemned sin in the flesh, and abolished the law contained in ordinances, to replace it with fleshy tables in the heart.
Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Kept secret since the world began) Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, MADE KNOWN TO ALL nations FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH:
Clare: "But justification is by the faith only, it is not by faith's necessary works (Romans 4:5, Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28)."
This is why I am on the forum Clare, to simplify the misunderstandings people seem to have.
The Jews cant be justified by sinning in the law, no more can anyone be judged without the law, by still sinning without it.
The doers of the law ( the righteousness of the law/the law of Christ to love our neighbour as ourselves) shall be justified and just before God.
This shows the work of the law written in their heart ( it is the difference of the first and new covenant of the law written in the heart to do them) and is when a conscience is given by the Spirit of Christ in you..
Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Now look again at Romans 3:25-28, the righteousness of Christ ( Christ with that law of God in the heart in obedience to take away the death and disobedience of the one man who caused death on all) and to take away our disobedience as we all lived as Adam, and why none were righteous, no, not one, and all were transgressors.
This new covenant in His blood gives us remission for the forgiveness of our sins that are past ( pst as seen in that past first covenant, as it passed away.
This then becomes the law of faith, the law is transformed, remember He will magnify the law to make it honourable, and the deed of the law ( the old law decayed and waxed old and vanished away, is immediatey replaced by the new covenant, which as told below in Hebrews 8, is when God is merciful to our unrighteousness, ( forgiving us through laying on the Son the iniquity of us all on the cross) to remember that first covenant sins and iniquities no more, now the message is, you are teaching each other for nothing, if you had the new covenant written in your hearts you would know that..
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
I don't need to tell you guys again do I, that this shows the law of God within the Son of God, this is how anyone does the will of Gd and it is how we do to, the exact same way ( remember all one, perfectly together, the Father in the Son and the Son in us)..
Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.