the standard of righteousness

RandyPNW

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Yes, Paul does use "righteousness" to mean "right action" e.g., Romans 6:18-20, 13, 16; Ephesians 6:14, in the process of sanctification leading to holiness (Romans 6:19). But for the most part, he uses it of the gift of Christ's righteousness in justification apart from works (Romans 4:5).

Yes, Clare, that was my whole point. Paul is using just the word "righteousness" as a shortcut for "eternal righteousness." The obvious indication is that any righteousness before the Cross was insufficient to obtain eternal standing. After the Cross, however, righteousness became "eternal righteousness." Justification came only after the Cross, but righteousness certainly preexisted the Cross!

My objection was to your
"imputation means nothing unless Christ's Spirit replicates in the believer the virtues of Christ."

This wording does cause protest by those who wish to separate works from faith in the formula for justification. And to some degree I agree. Justification is a work accomplished only by Christ alone in his atonement for our sins. We, as sinners, cannot atone for our own sins. We cannot forgive what we've done to God and to others.

But James clearly said that faith without deeds is dead. Faith without works is dead. By "works" we are not here talking about works of our own self-justification, but rather, of good works we do as a validation that we have genuine faith.

One of these works was identified by Jesus himself when he was asked what work his followers should do. And he answered that the beginning work is to believe in him. We, by our own volition, choose to embrace him as our source of spiritual life.

This is what *we* must do, and not just what Christ did for us in atoning for our sin. So faith plus works is the formula for the life of Salvation. But in accomplishing our Salvation, only Christ could justify us, and that without any of our own works.


Imputation (Romans 5:18-19) of Christ's righteousness (1 Corinthians 1:30) can never mean nothing.

For there is no imputation of Christ's righteousness to those who are not born again.
And those who are born again have true faith, which always has works.

Well, I would argue that "imputation" begins *at* the choice to be born again, and not just afterwards. When we choose to believe, that is the first work we do. But it doesn't justify us--it just validates our faith as real.
 
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RandyPNW

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It seems you dont understand Paul in this matter.

On the contrary, I do understand Paul, and I'm trying to share with others what I've struggled to understand over the course of 50 years. Give me some credit, even if you disagree.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Clare: ""2) You do understand the full and complete New Covenant revelation of the NT (i.e., orthodox Christianity) regarding law keeping, right?
That it made no one righteous in God's sight, that it only condemned them for imperfect law keeping, it being a curse for all who relied on it (Galatians 3:10)."


This is not only for Clare, this is for everyone in the discussion here.

Clare and Randy, seem to think lots of discussion is necessary, when discussing about the standard of righteousness ( as per the thread title)

All are proven by God to be under sin, and the statement from God is, " there is none righteous,, no, not one."..


Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.



Now, here are the verses that described the purpose God gave the law, but that the law was not made for a righteous man, ( as none were righteous, no not, one) but then the law was entirely to, and for the purpose of proving all are under sin, for being contrary to the sound doctrine of the revealed Gospel of Christ..


1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.



The law then as told, was added because of transgressions ( all are transgressors and that is why Isaiah 53, the Lord lays on the Son of God, the iniquity of us all..

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.



Then it is also told, that law could not give life, and righteousness would have been by the law, but it was a schoolmaster, to bring us to Christ by faith.

Then, what was done under the schoolmaster, is put away, to now put on Christ, this then means there is neither Jew nor gentile, but all are one in Jesus Christ and have been baptized into Christ..




Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.





Then the law of commandments contained in ordinances is abolished, joining the Jew and the Gentile together as one new man, ( in the new covenant of Christ) in one body by the cross which killed the emnity which we had against God..


Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:



Now not written in tables of stone by the letter and in ordinances, but the law written ( by the Spirit of Christ given) in the heart in fleshy tables of the heart ( as He gives us a new soft heart of flesh, taking the stony heart away,and a new Spirit and the devil spirit flees)..


2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.



Speaking of the standard of righteousness? That ministration of condemnation, was still glory, as it was from God, but the ministration of righteousness ( righteousness through the faith of Christ given) exceeds in glory because it is the ministration of the Spirit for us ( and in us)..



2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.



Israel continues in blindness, ( not submitting themselves to the righteousness which is in Christ) because of a vail over the heart, but the Spirit of the Lord gives us the liberty ( from sin and death/the weakness of the law (Romans 8.) and we now with open face behold, as in a glass, the glory of the Lord, to be changed into the same image, by the Spirit of the Lord..



2 Corinthians 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.



Remember they are still under that schoolmaster ( the law) because to them, that which is perfect, never came. Then what is in part has to be done away with, the understanding as a child, and the doing of childish things ( the transgressions in the law) and then we shall know, as also God knows us..



1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.



Here is what occured, Jesus magnified the law, in front of Israel, and made it honourable.

This then is to the people who know righteousness, the people in whose heart is the law ( the Son of God and then all who become one with Him perfectly) and the Gentiles circumcision ( of Christ) makes their uncircumcision, circumcision, by the keeping of the righteousness of the law, and the Jewish person ( or anyone) who breaks the law ( of its righteousness when magnified and honourable) is counted uncircumcision).


Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?





I know people have poor memories, so I will repeat 2 Corinthians 3:9 for us, the first ministration is condemnation, this is why Romans 8:1-4, tells us, what the law COULD NOT DO IN THAT IT WAS WEAK THROUGH THE FLESH, that Christ condemned sin in the flesh ( we were held in the ministration of condemnation prior to this) and then there is no w no condemnation to them in Christ who stopped the previous ministration of condemnation, by walking after the flesh. Sin is condemned in the flesh by the way as exampled, that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us who do walk not after the flesh ministration 9 first covenant) but those who walk after the Spirit ( of Christ in us which is the new covenant written in our heart of the law of Christ)


2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



Then ( not to all but to some it is given to hear) the ones who hear the word of Christ ( the word of faith and righteousness and truth ) believe on the Fathers testimonies for us, to not come into that same condemnation, but to pass from death unto life.

Because by the original offence of Adam, came condemnation upon all men to the judgement of death, and then by the righteousness ( of Christ, giving none offence) comes justification to life.

Here is the conclusion of that, we know we have passed from that death unto life, because we love the brothers, and the ones who fail at times/occasion to love their brother, abide not in Gods love, but in death ( still)...



John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.





Clare: "that God's relationship with Israel was cut off because of her unbelief (Romans 9:30-33, Romans 11:20, 23), not because of her failure to keep the Law."


Unbelief was also the failure of keeping the righteousness of the law, which they could not, as it is a ministration of condemnation, because no belief was given, that came when the Messiah condemned sin in the flesh, and abolished the law contained in ordinances, to replace it with fleshy tables in the heart.


Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

(Kept secret since the world began) Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, MADE KNOWN TO ALL nations FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH:





Clare: "But justification is by the faith only, it is not by faith's necessary works (Romans 4:5, Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28)."



This is why I am on the forum Clare, to simplify the misunderstandings people seem to have.


The Jews cant be justified by sinning in the law, no more can anyone be judged without the law, by still sinning without it.

The doers of the law ( the righteousness of the law/the law of Christ to love our neighbour as ourselves) shall be justified and just before God.

This shows the work of the law written in their heart ( it is the difference of the first and new covenant of the law written in the heart to do them) and is when a conscience is given by the Spirit of Christ in you..



Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)





Now look again at Romans 3:25-28, the righteousness of Christ ( Christ with that law of God in the heart in obedience to take away the death and disobedience of the one man who caused death on all) and to take away our disobedience as we all lived as Adam, and why none were righteous, no, not one, and all were transgressors.

This new covenant in His blood gives us remission for the forgiveness of our sins that are past ( pst as seen in that past first covenant, as it passed away.

This then becomes the law of faith, the law is transformed, remember He will magnify the law to make it honourable, and the deed of the law ( the old law decayed and waxed old and vanished away, is immediatey replaced by the new covenant, which as told below in Hebrews 8, is when God is merciful to our unrighteousness, ( forgiving us through laying on the Son the iniquity of us all on the cross) to remember that first covenant sins and iniquities no more, now the message is, you are teaching each other for nothing, if you had the new covenant written in your hearts you would know that..



Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.






I don't need to tell you guys again do I, that this shows the law of God within the Son of God, this is how anyone does the will of Gd and it is how we do to, the exact same way ( remember all one, perfectly together, the Father in the Son and the Son in us)..

Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
 
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fhansen

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Clare: ""2) You do understand the full and complete New Covenant revelation of the NT (i.e., orthodox Christianity) regarding law keeping, right?
That it made no one righteous in God's sight, that it only condemned them for imperfect law keeping, it being a curse for all who relied on it (Galatians 3:10)."


This is not only for Clare, this is for everyone in the discussion here.

Clare and Randy, seem to think lots of discussion is necessary, when discussing about the standard of righteousness ( as per the thread title)

All are proven by God to be under sin, and the statement from God is, " there is none righteous,, no, not one."..


Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.



Now, here are the verses that described the purpose God gave the law, but that the law was not made for a righteous man, ( as none were righteous, no not, one) but then the law was entirely to, and for the purpose of proving all are under sin, for being contrary to the sound doctrine of the revealed Gospel of Christ..


1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.



The law then as told, was added because of transgressions ( all are transgressors and that is why Isaiah 53, the Lord lays on the Son of God, the iniquity of us all..

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.


Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.



Then it is also told, that law could not give life, and righteousness would have been by the law, but it was a schoolmaster, to bring us to Christ by faith.

Then, what was done under the schoolmaster, is put away, to now put on Christ, this then means there is neither Jew nor gentile, but all are one in Jesus Christ and have been baptized into Christ..




Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.





Then the law of commandments contained in ordinances is abolished, joining the Jew and the Gentile together as one new man, ( in the new covenant of Christ) in one body by the cross which killed the emnity which we had against God..


Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:



Now not written in tables of stone by the letter and in ordinances, but the law written ( by the Spirit of Christ given) in the heart in fleshy tables of the heart ( as He gives us a new soft heart of flesh, taking the stony heart away,and a new Spirit and the devil spirit flees)..


2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.



Speaking of the standard of righteousness? That ministration of condemnation, was still glory, as it was from God, but the ministration of righteousness ( righteousness through the faith of Christ given) exceeds in glory because it is the ministration of the Spirit for us ( and in us)..



2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.



Israel continues in blindness, ( not submitting themselves to the righteousness which is in Christ) because of a vail over the heart, but the Spirit of the Lord gives us the liberty ( from sin and death/the weakness of the law (Romans 8.) and we now with open face behold, as in a glass, the glory of the Lord, to be changed into the same image, by the Spirit of the Lord..



2 Corinthians 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.



Remember they are still under that schoolmaster ( the law) because to them, that which is perfect, never came. Then what is in part has to be done away with, the understanding as a child, and the doing of childish things ( the transgressions in the law) and then we shall know, as also God knows us..



1 Corinthians 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.



Here is what occured, Jesus magnified the law, in front of Israel, and made it honourable.

This then is to the people who know righteousness, the people in whose heart is the law ( the Son of God and then all who become one with Him perfectly) and the Gentiles circumcision ( of Christ) makes their uncircumcision, circumcision, by the keeping of the righteousness of the law, and the Jewish person ( or anyone) who breaks the law ( of its righteousness when magnified and honourable) is counted uncircumcision).


Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Isaiah 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?





I know people have poor memories, so I will repeat 2 Corinthians 3:9 for us, the first ministration is condemnation, this is why Romans 8:1-4, tells us, what the law COULD NOT DO IN THAT IT WAS WEAK THROUGH THE FLESH, that Christ condemned sin in the flesh ( we were held in the ministration of condemnation prior to this) and then there is no w no condemnation to them in Christ who stopped the previous ministration of condemnation, by walking after the flesh. Sin is condemned in the flesh by the way as exampled, that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us who do walk not after the flesh ministration 9 first covenant) but those who walk after the Spirit ( of Christ in us which is the new covenant written in our heart of the law of Christ)


2 Corinthians 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



Then ( not to all but to some it is given to hear) the ones who hear the word of Christ ( the word of faith and righteousness and truth ) believe on the Fathers testimonies for us, to not come into that same condemnation, but to pass from death unto life.

Because by the original offence of Adam, came condemnation upon all men to the judgement of death, and then by the righteousness ( of Christ, giving none offence) comes justification to life.

Here is the conclusion of that, we know we have passed from that death unto life, because we love the brothers, and the ones who fail at times/occasion to love their brother, abide not in Gods love, but in death ( still)...



John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.





Clare: "that God's relationship with Israel was cut off because of her unbelief (Romans 9:30-33, Romans 11:20, 23), not because of her failure to keep the Law."


Unbelief was also the failure of keeping the righteousness of the law, which they could not, as it is a ministration of condemnation, because no belief was given, that came when the Messiah condemned sin in the flesh, and abolished the law contained in ordinances, to replace it with fleshy tables in the heart.


Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

(Kept secret since the world began) Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, MADE KNOWN TO ALL nations FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH:





Clare: "But justification is by the faith only, it is not by faith's necessary works (Romans 4:5, Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28)."



This is why I am on the forum Clare, to simplify the misunderstandings people seem to have.


The Jews cant be justified by sinning in the law, no more can anyone be judged without the law, by still sinning without it.

The doers of the law ( the righteousness of the law/the law of Christ to love our neighbour as ourselves) shall be justified and just before God.

This shows the work of the law written in their heart ( it is the difference of the first and new covenant of the law written in the heart to do them) and is when a conscience is given by the Spirit of Christ in you..



Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)





Now look again at Romans 3:25-28, the righteousness of Christ ( Christ with that law of God in the heart in obedience to take away the death and disobedience of the one man who caused death on all) and to take away our disobedience as we all lived as Adam, and why none were righteous, no, not one, and all were transgressors.

This new covenant in His blood gives us remission for the forgiveness of our sins that are past ( pst as seen in that past first covenant, as it passed away.

This then becomes the law of faith, the law is transformed, remember He will magnify the law to make it honourable, and the deed of the law ( the old law decayed and waxed old and vanished away, is immediatey replaced by the new covenant, which as told below in Hebrews 8, is when God is merciful to our unrighteousness, ( forgiving us through laying on the Son the iniquity of us all on the cross) to remember that first covenant sins and iniquities no more, now the message is, you are teaching each other for nothing, if you had the new covenant written in your hearts you would know that..



Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.






I don't need to tell you guys again do I, that this shows the law of God within the Son of God, this is how anyone does the will of Gd and it is how we do to, the exact same way ( remember all one, perfectly together, the Father in the Son and the Son in us)..

Psalm 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
Psalm 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Yes, the doctrine of Sola Fide is confusing and dangerous if understood to mean that faith=righteousness for man, or replaces the need for it as if, solely by having faith, the requirement for righteousness is now satisfied in us. In truth, faith accomplishes actual righteousness in man as it establishes relationship with the only One who can make that happen in us, “not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.” Phil 3:9

Our job is to participate, to strive, to remain in Him, living life by the Spirit.
 
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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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God does not expect us to be perfect.

Dear Randy:

Grace, peace, and love to you from the Lord Jesus Christ.
I hope you are doing well in the Lord today.

Anyways, to get down to business: You said here that God does not expect us to be perfect.
Well, I have to respectfully disagree, brother. While I am not talking about Sinless Perfectionism (whereby one would put away even non-death sins or minor faults of character that the Bible does not condemn), Matthew 5 does appear to teach a form of God desiring us to be perfect.

Be ye therefore perfect,
even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
(Matthew 5:48).​

Is this overcoming all sin? While it may be, I don’t believe that is the context. The context is loving your enemies.

43 “Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”
(Matthew 5:43-48).​

This would also include the context of verses 38-42. But I stressed the importance of this portion so as not to get lost in the text. So I see that the Lord Jesus Christ (Who is GOD) does command us to be perfect in the sense of loving our enemies, blessing them that curse us, and doing good unto those who hate us, and praying for those who despitefully use us, and or persecute us. This is one aspect of way of being perfect.

James also talks about an aspect or way we can be perfect if we offend not in words. For James says:

“For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” (James 3:2).
The apostle Paul says that all Scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”

Again, these are different aspects or ways of being perfect, and it is not exactly Sinless Perfection in overcoming even non-death sins or faults of character. (Note: “Death sins” are any sins that the Bible does condemn with warnings of hell fire or condemnation; Believers need to enter the Sanctification Process after they are saved by God’s grace. By doing so, they will either overcome immediately, or they will overcome at some point in this life those sins that lead to spiritual death).
 
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The Law of Moses was given to Israel to establish a relationship with God, but could not provide a perfect standard for righteousness, because it was administered through imperfect priests. Because of their human flaws, they showed that their own works were flawed, and that human death remained a hindrance to unbroken relationship with God.

Dear Randy:

I believe much confusion arises on the topic of Grace, and Law.

In my study of God’s Word, here is a short list of truths in Scripture that many do not understand:

#1. When we look at the Scriptures, we can see two different sets of God’s Laws; However, believers today are under the Laws of Christ (a.k.a. the Law of Christ - Galatians 6:2, Romans 8:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21), and they not under the 613 Laws of Moses. For when Christ died upon the cross: The New Covenant (or New Testament) officially began with it’s respective and unique laws that have superseded the Old Mosaic Law. Yes, certain Laws in the Old Law have been repeated in the Laws given to us by Christ, but we look to Jesus and His followers primarily to obey God, and we do not look primarily to the Old ways (i.e. the Mosaic Law). For the Old Law is no more (2 Corinthians 3:7-11, 2 Corinthians 3:14, Romans 7:4, Romans 7:6, Colossians 2:14, Colossians 2:16-17, Colossians 2:20-23, Ephesians 2:15, Hebrews 7:18, Hebrews 8:13, Hebrews 9:9-10, Hebrews 9:15, Hebrews 9:16-17, Hebrews 10:8-9, Matthew 26:27-28, Matthew 27:50-51, Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Believers do not have to keep things like the Saturday Sabbath, holy days, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices (once the temple is rebuilt), etc.

#2. Paul was fighting against a heresy of which I call, “Circumcision Salvationism,” which basically stated that believers needed to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved. This heresy was addressed at the Jerusalem council (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24). Paul also attacked this heresy in Galatians 5:2. He said if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2), and then Paul refers to the Law (Galatians 5:4). This Law is the Law of Moses because circumcision was not a command given to us by the Lord Jesus Christ and His followers under the New Covenant. Anyways, the false idea here is that if a person made circumcision the basis of their salvation, they would be making a Law or work the entrance gate or foundation of their salvation instead of being initially saved by God’s grace (Which is wrong). This is why Paul appeared to speak negatively of the Law and or works. Paul was trying to refute the belief of “Works ALONE Salvationism” (via by the Old Mosaic Law) that did not include God’s grace.

#3. Grace was always the focus and nobody was ever saved by keeping the Law alone. The Pharisees and many Jews had made salvation all about being a Jew (Salvific Nationalism), and in keeping the many Mosaic Laws (Law ALONE Salvationism) that was devoid of God’s grace. In Hebrews 7: The Law in and of itself without God’s grace did not make anyone perfect. This is not to say that others were not blameless in keeping the Old Law (When it was in effect). Luke 1 says, “And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.” (Luke 1:6). (Note: Again, I am speaking in regards to overcoming death sins and not non-death sins here; So I am not referring to Sinless Perfectionism in overcoming minor faults or character or minor transgressions here). Even before the cross, King David needed mercy over his sin in Psalms 51. Even before the cross, the Tax Collector was justified for seeking forgiveness with the Lord (Luke 18:9-14). Even before the cross, men looked to a future Messiah (Job 19:25).

#4. Believers are initially and foundationally saved by God’s grace, and they then need to enter the Sanctification Process as a part of God’s plan of salvation. This includes obeying the Laws of Christ under the New Covenant, or New Testament. To learn more about the these two aspects of salvation, check out this thread here:

The Four Aspects of Salvation.


So in conclusion:

It is true that the Old Law mentioned in Hebrews 7 did not make anything perfect, but this is referring to the Old Mosaic Law (the 613) that did not include God’s grace. For grace is something that needs to happen first. The Old Law could be obeyed by the OT saint (with the Old Law not applying to the NT saint), but only if the OT saint accepted God’s grace whereby God could help them to obey the Old Law. For there was nothing wrong with the Law. But in and of itself, the Law ALONE cannot do anything to make a person perfect without God’s grace.

Anyways, I hope that what I said here helps.
Seek out the Scriptures for yourself on this matter and pray about it of course.

May God’s love shine upon you and your family greatly.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ BL. Highlighter.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Bible Highlighter: "It is true that the Old Law mentioned in Hebrews 7 did not make anything perfect, but this is referring to the Old Mosaic Law (the 613) that did not include God’s grace. For grace is something that needs to happen first. The Old Law could be obeyed by the OT saint (with the Old Law not applying to the NT saint), but only if the OT saint accepted God’s grace whereby God could help them to obey the Old Law. For there was nothing wrong with the Law. But in and of itself, the Law ALONE cannot do anything to make a person perfect without God’s grace."



There was something wrong with the law, and Jesus did show every part of that, I will remind us of some.

Firstly, about loving your neighbour, and hating your enemy, and this was because of what was missing from the law and from man, which was the love of Christ, charity, gentleness, kindness, meekness, these were kept secret since the foundation of the world..

Isaiah 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Matthew 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Hebrews 7:26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;



Now, what is it that is perfect, that came, ( more perfect tabernacle than the first one) and that involves the ending of hating your enemy, and only loving your neighbour from now on ?

That's right, if anyone does love another, it is Gods love in them, God dwelling in us, and His love is not imperfected in us, but perfected in us...


1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.


Does anyone care at all, how that works, if it includes any sinning, or if it does not say such a thing ?


Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
 
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Clare73

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Yes, Clare, that was my whole point. Paul is using just the word "righteousness" as a shortcut for "eternal righteousness." The obvious indication is that any righteousness before the Cross was insufficient to obtain eternal standing. After the Cross, however, righteousness became "eternal righteousness."
No. . .not the obvious indication. . .

It's not about a changing nature of righteousness itself. . .it's about two different kinds of righteousness:


1) the righteousness of fallen man, which is imperfect and insufficient for God's heaven, and
2) the righteousness of Jesus Christ, perfect and the only righteousness sufficient for God's heaven.

Any righteousness of
man, before or after the cross, was insuffcient.
The righteousness of Jesus Christ, before or after the cross, was always sufficient.
Justification came only after the Cross, but righteousness certainly preexisted the Cross!
Yes, Jesus' righteousness pre-existed the cross.

"Justification" is simply a declaration by God who is Judge of "not quilty," a right standing with God's justice, because of the remission of one's sin (salvation) through faith without/apart from works
(Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:5).
In justification, Christ's righteousness is also imputed/accounted along with the declaration of "not guilty" and right standing with God's justice.
But that righteousness is a right(eous) standing only, it is not a transformation of one's character at that point.

Transformation of character is in the righteousness of sanctification in the Christian life, through obedience in the Holy Spirit, which leads to holiness (Romans 6:19).
This wording does cause protest by
those who wish to separate works from faith in the formula for justification. And to some degree I agree.
"Those who wish" ?
You do not agree that

"To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5), as in Abraham (Romans 4:3; Genesis 5:6),

or that

"a righteousness from God apart from works has been made known," (Romans 3:21),

"a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." (Romans 3:28)

Why do you not agree with the God-breathed (
theo-pneustos) Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16)?
Justification is a work accomplished only by Christ alone in his atonement for our sins. We, as sinners, cannot atone for our own sins. We cannot forgive what we've done to God and to others.
Actually, justification is the result of salvation, which is "the work accomplished only by Christ alone in his atonement fo our sins."
But James clearly said that faith without deeds is dead.
Faith without works is dead. By "works" we are not here talking about works of our own self-justification, but rather, of good works we do as a validation that we have genuine faith.
Yes, true faith necessarily has works.
If there are no works, it is because there is no true faith and,
therefore, no justification, for only true faith justifies.

But it is
not true faith's works that justify, it is only the faith itself which justifies, apart from faith's works (Romans 4:5; 3:21, 28).
One of these works was identified by Jesus himself when he was asked what work his followers should do. And he answered that the beginning work is to believe in him. We, by our own volition, choose to embrace him as our source of spiritual life.
This is what *we* must do, and not just what Christ did for us in atoning for our sin. So faith plus works is the formula for the life of Salvation.
That is contra-NT.

The
works of faith do not save, only faith saves (Ephesians 2:8-9).
But in accomplishing our Salvation, only Christ could justify us, and that without any of our own works
Justification did not accomplish salvation.

Salvation comes before justification. . .it is salvation which acomplished justification.

Salvation = penalty for sin paid, sin remitted, through faith, not by works (Ephesians 2:8-9)

Justification = declaration of "not guilty" by God, the Judge, in right standing with his justice (due to salvation), and the righteousness of Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30) being credited/accounted/reckoned/imputed to one by faith apart from works (Romans 4:5), as righteousness was credited to Abraham by faith apart from works (Genesis 15:6; Romans 3:4)

Justification (right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty")
is the result of salvation (sin paid for, remitted).
Well, I would argue that "imputation" begins *at* the choice to be born again,
Does anyone chose to be born in the first place? . . .no.
Nor does anyone choose to be reborn.

How can one choose to be reborn of the Holy Spirit, when he is sovereign
(the wind blows wherever it pleases),
and no one can tell where he comes from or where he is going
(and blows on whomever it pleases)?
John 3:7-8.
and not just afterwards. When we
choose to believe, that is the first work we do. But it doesn't justify us--it just
validates our faith as real.
Believing validates our believing?

"God works in you to will (choose) and to do (believe)." (Philippians 2:13)
 
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prophecy_uk

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Clare:
"Justification" is simply a declaration by God the Judge of "not quilty," a right standing with God's justice, because of the remission of one's sin (salvation) through faith without/apart from works
(Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:5).

But that righteousness is a right(eous) standing only, it is not a transformation of one's character at that point.
Transformation of character is in the righteousness of sanctification in the Christian life, through obedience in the Holy Spirit, which leads to holiness (Romans 6:19)."




You are aware, that it is the Gospel of Christ which teaches us the righteousness of Christ in Heaven, showing us the way of salvation, and what justifies us ?


This is why, the vipers being evil, cannot speak good things, out of the evil heart they bring forth their evil things, and the good man out of his good heart brings forth his good things, and hen it is concluded by our Lord what justifies us, and equally what condemns us, it is our word and testimony ( a person can stick to saved by grace through faith and not works, but afterwards they must see that, works can be included or not, because your words alone are enough to condemn.

Next though ( remembering the testimony of Christ and not remembering our favourite verses instead) we hear of the righteousness of the Kingdom of Heaven again, how it is, all the ones who live in exaltation, did remain in condemnation, never began to walk on justification.


Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.



Why not look and examine your favourite and repeated verses some more ?

Romans 4, reminds us of Abraham, how glory goes to God for believing in the promises by faith ( who believed in hope against hope) an we know we are saved by that same hope.

Mentioning not working, is to the Jews in the first covenant, which is not of faith, because the faith is not given to them and they are blinded by God from believing.

Christ makes us free from sin, as per Romans 6:18, and it is fuller described in Romans 8:30, how the justification is told exactly by God, justified and glorified ( to no longer be falling short of the glory of God)..



Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.



Seeking all that teaches us about the justification of Christ 9 His testimony and ignoring mans testimony) we cannot be found to stilol fall short of the glory of GOd( by sinning) when we are justified and glorified, cannot be found as the first covenant as transgressors, we are living to God by being dead to that law ( of works, that works death),,


Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.




Then back onto Abraham to finish, and Abraham is not separate from works, for the justification he received from God, they are faith, but the promises were believed hoping against hope, and the obedience of faith was done immediately, through believing in the hope God gives..


James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
 
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prophecy_uk

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"To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifites the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5), as in Abraham (Romans 4:3; Genesis 5:6),

or that
"a righteousness from God apart from works has been made known," (Romans 3:21),

"a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." (Romans 3:28)

But it is not true faith's works that justify, it is only the faith itself which justifies, apart from faith's works (Romans 4:5; 3:21, 28)."




Abraham's and our faith is imputed as righteousness, because it is the faith God gives, not our own.

Then, out of that same faith that God gives to someone, they know righteousness, by the Spirit in them to believe with, and obey with.

Faith is all it is witnessed to be, see some of Abraham's faith at work, and Abraham in faith, being fathful.


First, what was lacking was faithfulness...



Romans 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:


Psalm 5:9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.



God did not seek the faithless, but the faithful of the land who walk with God in a perfect way, not speaking lies, is what the faithful witness does 9 Gd giving them the Spirit of truth that cant lie) but who can find those faithful humbled souls..


Psalm 101:6 Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.

Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.

Proverbs 20:6 Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?


Jesus again teaches of the faithful, how they do not faint in the times of trials and this tribulation, and that is how those of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham, who obeyed when told by God what to do, including offering that son he hoped against hope to have, to show the offering the Father will make of the Son for us faithfully which is in faith ( God created the world through faith too)..




Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,



God requires those servant/stewards of Hos as told in the Gospel) t be found faithful, as it is the faith, and they are chosen and faithful to God..


1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.





Last mention on it, ( especially to the ignorers ) is that God also is the faithful in faith High Priest t o us, the works He needded to do, remember any of them at all ?


John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Isaiah 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Hosea 2:20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.




Ephesians shows faith saves us, faith is a work of love, and faith works by love, I hope you might want to look a little further/deeper into your own quotes..



Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
 
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Clare73

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Clare73 said:
Justification" is simply a declaration by God the Judge of "not quilty," a right standing with God's justice, because of the remission of one's sin (salvation) through faith without/apart from works
(Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 4:5).

But that righteousness is a right(eous) standing only, it is not a transformation of one's character at that point.
Transformation of character is in the righteousness of sanctification in the Christian life, through obedience in the Holy Spirit, which leads to holiness (Romans 6:19).
You are aware, that it is the Gospel of Christ which teaches us the righteousness of Christ in Heaven, showing us the way of salvation, and what justifies us ?
The Son of God was righteous in heaven before his incarnation, during his incarnation on earth, and after his resurrection and ascension back to heaven.
This is why, the vipers being evil, cannot speak good things, out of the evil heart they bring forth their evil things, and the good man out of his good heart brings forth his good things, and hen it is concluded by our Lord what justifies us, and equally what condemns us, it is our word and testimony ( a person can stick to saved by grace through faith and not works, but afterwards they must see that, works can be included or not, because your words alone are enough to condemn.
Next though ( remembering the testimony of Christ and not remembering our favourite verses instead) we hear of the righteousness of the Kingdom of Heaven again, how it is, all the ones who live in exaltation, did remain in condemnation, never began to walk on justification.
All of the NT is the word of God, not just the red letters.
Matthew 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and
by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Your words reveal your heart, and whether or not you have saving faith.
Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Why not look and examine your favourite and repeated verses some more ?

Romans 4, reminds us of Abraham, how glory goes to God for
believing in the promises by faith who believed in hope against hope) an we know
we are saved by that same hope.
The promise in which Abraham believed was of the Seed, Jesus Christ (Genesis 15:6).

According to the NT, we are saved by that same faith (Ephesians 2:8-9);
Mentioning not working, is to the Jews in the first covenant, which is not of faith, because the faith is not given to them and they are blinded by God from believing.
"Saved through faith without works" (Ephesians 2:8-9) is for all mankind, not just the Jews.
Christ makes us free from sin, as per Romans 6:18,
Yes, Jesus died for sin that we might die to sin.
and it is fuller described in Romans 8:30, how the justification is told exactly by God, justified and glorified ( to no longer be falling short of the glory of God).
Yes, that Jesus might have many brothers, God predestined, called, justified, and glorified those he foreknew (decreed to save).
Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Yes, the promise came by faith (Romans 4:16).
Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Yes, righteousness is by faith only, apart from works.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Yes, no one is righteous.
Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Yes, now we have a new master, righteousness instead of sin.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Yes, our eternal destiny is already accomplished and credited to us, although in the realm of time we have not yet achieved it.
Seeking all that teaches us about the justification of Christ 9 His testimony and ignoring mans testimony) we cannot be found to stilol fall short of the glory of GOd( by sinning) when we are justified and glorified, cannot be found as the first covenant as transgressors, we are living to God by being dead to that law ( of works, that works death),
Not having yet achieved our eternal destiny of sinlessness, we do still sin, but confess and are cleansed of all sin and unrigihteousness (1 John 1:8-10).
Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
Yes, in justifying us by grace only, Christ is not promiting sin and making us sinners in taking away the righteousness of the law, by which no one was made righteousness anyway (Galatians 3:10).
Then back onto Abraham to finish, and Abraham is not separate from works, for the justification he received from God, they are faith, but the promises were believed hoping against hope, and the obedience of faith was done immediately, through believing in the hope God gives..
Faith is not a work.
Work is performance (obedience). Faith is a disposition of belief and trust.

You are in disagreement with Genesis 15:6 and Romans 4:3 on this.
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Yes, one's faith is justified (proven) by works, which justified faith, apart from those works, then justifies the believer.

Thanks for the nice walk through the Scriptures.
 
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Brightfame52

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On the contrary, I do understand Paul, and I'm trying to share with others what I've struggled to understand over the course of 50 years. Give me some credit, even if you disagree.
Again, it doesnt seem you understand Paul, even if you think so !
 
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clare3

For there is no imputation of Christ's righteousness to those who are not born again.

I differ with this statement. In fact I would say that the ones who shall be born again is because they have had Christs righteousness imputed to them. Righteousness brings life !
 
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Clare73

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clare3
I differ with this statement. In fact I would say that the ones who shall be born again is because they have had Christs righteousness imputed to them. Righteousness brings life !
No, rightousness does not bring life. You must be alive to receive righteousness.

It is rebirth that brings life.

Justification brings righteousness to the reborn by faith apart from works (Romans 4:5, 3:21, 28)
 
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Clare73

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Clare73 said:
Yu do not agree that

"To the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Romans 4:5), as in Abraham (Romans 4:3; Genesis 5:6),

or that
"a righteousness from God apart from works has been made known," (Romans 3:21),

"a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law." (Romans 3:28)

But it is not (true) faith's works that justify, it is only the faith itself which justifies, apart from faith's works (Romans 4:5; 3:21, 28).
Abraham's and our faith is imputed as righteousness, because it is the faith God gives, not our own.
It is our faith which God works in us. (Philippians 2:13).
Then, out of that same faith that God gives to someone, they know righteousness, by the Spirit in them to believe with, and obey with.
It sounds like you are referring to the righteousness of sanctification through faithfulness (works),
rather than the righteousness of justification through faith apart from works (Romans 4:5) at salvation.

The righteousness at justification is credited to us through faith apart from works (Romans 4:5), as it was with Abrahm (Romans 4:3; Genesis 15:6),
while the righteousness of sanctification is by faithfulness (of works) in our Christian life in the Holy Spirit.
Faith is all it is witnessed to be, see some of Abraham's faith at work, and Abraham in faith, being fathful.


First, what was lacking was faithfulness...



Romans 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:


Psalm 5:9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.



God did not seek the faithless, but the faithful of the land who walk with God in a perfect way, not speaking lies, is what the faithful witness does 9 Gd giving them the Spirit of truth that cant lie) but who can find those faithful humbled souls..


Psalm 101:6 Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.

Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.

Proverbs 20:6 Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?


Jesus again teaches of the faithful, how they do not faint in the times of trials and this tribulation, and that is how those of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham, who obeyed when told by God what to do, including offering that son he hoped against hope to have, to show the offering the Father will make of the Son for us faithfully which is in faith ( God created the world through faith too)..




Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,



God requires those servant/stewards of Hos as told in the Gospel) t be found faithful, as it is the faith, and they are chosen and faithful to God..


1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.





Last mention on it, ( especially to the ignorers ) is that God also is the faithful in faith High Priest t o us, the works He needded to do, remember any of them at all ?


John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Isaiah 11:5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Hosea 2:20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.




Ephesians shows faith saves us, faith is a work of love, and faith works by love, I hope you might want to look a little further/deeper into your own quotes..



Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
 
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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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To all:

If there was something wrong with the Old Law (that has ended with Christ’s death), then God made a mistake. But I do not believe God makes mistakes. Yes, Jesus brought in a superior covenant of loving one’s enemies, but that does not mean the Old Covenant and it’s laws did not have their place and purpose in God’s plan. I believe the Old Covenant was a way of showing how God is a rewarder to those who follow Him, and an executor of justice or punishment to those who would rebel against Him.
 
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No, rightousness does not bring life. You must be alive to receive righteousness.

It is rebirth that brings life.

Justification brings righteousness to the reborn by faith apart from works (Romans 4:5, 3:21, 28)
Yes righteousness does bring life. Prov 12:28;Rom 5:18

God the Holy Spirit gives Spiritual life unto all whom have been legally made righteous by the obedience of Christ. Basically, Christs death secured spiritual life for all whom He died because by His death He put away their sins which caused their spiritual death, hence their sins being put away, life must be given, and of course all for whom their sins have been put away, Christs righteousness has been imputed 2 Cor 5:21
 
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prophecy_uk

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37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and
by thy words thou shalt be condemned.



Clare: "Your words reveal your heart, and whether or not you have saving faith."


The words/testimony also are what we are judged by, it is the testimony of Christ that avoids the previous ministration of condemnation, it is only in the letter that kills and not the Spirit given, that gives life..


2 Corinthians 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.






Clare: "The promise in which Abraham believed was of the Seed, Jesus Christ (Genesis 15:6)."



Abraham was childless, and God tells, his own bowels ( out of his body) is his heir, that is Isaac, first, then Christ, and also, as more detail is described, the stars for number show the amount of his seed, numerous..


Genesis 15:2 And Abram said, Lord God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.



Romans 4, still does say, that Abraham believed in hope against hope, to become the father of all those nations ( the Jews and the Gentiles all one new perfect man in Christ together) who overcame the look of his body then dead, but was strong in belief to glorify Gods promises, and imputed for us too, if we believe on the raising up of Jesus Christ our Lord from the dead, delivered for our offences, and raised again for our justification.

We are saved by hope, we wait for that hope with patience, after we have done the will of God in patrients perfect work, we miht receive those same promises of God. The just lives by faith, we do not draw back into sins, sins are removed by belief in Christs rising from the sins that we are dead to, also...



Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

James 1:4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Romans 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.





To Abraham the promises were made, and to that one seed Christ to come, and inheritance comes by promise, which is Christ coming to us and the law was because of transgressions, which means a new law is required, a change of the law by the priesthood being changed...



Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.




Abraham was tried, in that faith, to show the works with his faith, that it is perfect and not incomplete, and this is how Abraham received Christ in a figure, as Abraham accounted that God can raise up the dead and that is how we believe that God raised Christ from the dead, because of the complete and perfected work through faith of Abraham. This is judging God faithful, this, if you can see the testimony, is when God gives us strength to follow through with the promises of the Lord ( the Spirit given into man immediately is the covenant made with us to obey God in holiness) and now everyone can see this below, as I can see, that the faith is dead, without this very way, of the strength and obedience in faith of Abraham ( which is Christs grace for us all)..




Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Hebrews 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.




Clare: "According to the NT, we are saved by that same faith (Ephesians 2:8-9);"

"Saved through faith without works" (Ephesians 2:8-9) is for all mankind, not just the Jews."




The words are, we were dead in sins, and became quickened together with Christ, and that is by His grace that saves us ( from being dead in sins) and the faith to believe and obey is by the grace of God too ( as God makes a new covenant with us by promise or we have nothing) and remain in the same covenant of failure and death which is silly)..



Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:



Two more thoughts for us, the acknowledging of the truth is godliness, God must give us this or we can only deny, this is the hope we are saved by( as in Abraham) of eternal life, and the ones who seduce us, mean we have no need for any of them to teach us, as I have already said for us in my first post on this thread but they speak on anyway..


Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

1 John 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Clare: "Not having yet achieved our eternal destiny of sinlessness, we do still sin, but confess and are cleansed of all sin and unrigihteousness (1 John 1:8-10)."


Yes, sinning and being repeatedly cleansed of all unrighteousness.

It does need us to look at your verse example more, seeing as it is an only one, along with confusion of Romans 7 for some people.

Here are all the verses associated with 1 John, the whole chapter, and notice first in the Gospel, our eye has to not be double, but single, for our body to be full of light, otherwise our body is full of darkness, and when our whole body is full of light, there is no part dark in us..


Luke 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.



That is when we were servants of sin, and what we did ( the sins) we are now ashamed of, as we did no righteousness whatsoever, and when made free from that unrighteousness ( cleansed of all unrighteousness) they are free from any unrighteousness( sin) they are now ashamed of in what they did..


Romans 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


Christ then confirms them blameless to the end, coming behind in no gift, of long suffering, kindness, mercy, as that is being called unto the fellowship of the Son of God Jesus Christ our Lord..


1 Corinthians 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.




We cant have fellowship with devils, cannot be partaker of the Lords table, and at the same time of the table of devils/fellowship with devils..


1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.



So we are to awake to righteousness and sin not, otherwise it is spoken to our shame ( as they would now be ashamed of the things they once did)..


1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.



Righteousness has no fellowship with unrighteousness, the same as light has no communion with darkness..


2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?



Then remembering we do not come behind in any gift of the fruits of the Spirit to fellowship with the Son, we have no fellowship with those in the unfruitful works of darkness ( sins) they are reproved by Gods word, because it is a shame to speak of those things they still allow themselves to do in secret. But what is made manifest by the light is reproved, only darkness remaining in anyone is when they are not reproved..


Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.


The power of the resurrection of Christ, and the fellowship of His sufferings, makes us conformable to His death, dead to sin..


Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.



Quickened from the time past, of the spirit of the fellowship of the devils, in disobedience, when we lived in lusts, and those sins..

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


Dead in sins and the uncircumcision of our flesh, then quickened together with Him to be forgiven all our tresspasses, to be circumcised by the circumcision of Christ, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, for we are the circumcision who worship God in the Spirit, and have nothing in the flesh, and the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, to count him circumcision..



Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Colossians 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Philippians 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?



Now, 1 John 1 time, declared to us, so we have fellowship with the Apostles, who have fellowship with the Father, and the message declared is, God who is light, does not have fellowship with anyone who walks in darkness, ( it is with the devils darkness and in fellowship with devils and unfruitful works of shameful darkness)

We then walk in the light as God is in the light, to have fellowship with one another ( not in darkness by hating your brother, and when you love your brother with Gods love and light shining in you you have no occasion of darkness/stumbling, now the devils darkness is past)


Then the blood of Christ cleanses us of all sin, then we do not deceive ourselves but confess those sin and darkness/unrighteousness that was still there, for Christ to be just to forgive those sins and clean us of all the unrighteousness we are called to not fellowship in any more..


1 John 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1 John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



The deceitfulness of sin will harden their hearts, they will say you cant stop sinning, based on one verse, and somehow think they did well to ignore the rest of the chapter?

But, they should TAKE HEED, as a light that shines in their dark place, until the day dawn and the day star arise in the hearts..


Hebrews 3: 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
 
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prophecy_uk

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Clare: " It is our faith which God works in us. (Philippians 2:13)."


God works in us, by the faith of Jesus Christ, unto and upon all them that believe, according as God gave to every man a measure of faith, and what do we have that we did not receive ?

The revealing of the Spirit is given to every man to profit with, to one is given by the Spirit faith, knowing we are justified not by our own faith, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, for us to believe in Jesus Christ to be justified by the faith of Christ ( not our faith) or we cannot be justified, so the free gift ( of faith which works by grace) comes from Christ, as none sought after God( no faith in man) so God sought us..

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

1 Corinthians 4:7 For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ezekiel 34:11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
 
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