the standard of righteousness

RandyPNW

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God does not expect us to be perfect. But He does expect us to have a perfect standard, upon which to rely. Christ is that perfect standard, who has given us his Spirit. And if we live a life relying on that Spirit, it proves that we have accepted him as the right standard of righteousness.

The Law of Moses was given to Israel to establish a relationship with God, but could not provide a perfect standard for righteousness, because it was administered through imperfect priests. Because of their human flaws, they showed that their own works were flawed, and that human death remained a hindrance to unbroken relationship with God.

Christ came to fulfill Israel's hope in an eternal relationship with God. His own flawless life was not threatened by sin and death, and he could offer us his Spirit as the basis for obtaining this eternal relationship with God.

Now that Christ has come, we have an example of righteousness that is free of the curse of sin and death. We cannot attain perfection on our own, but we've been given the opportunity to live in dependence upon Christ's perfect Spirit to show our preference for God's perfect standard of righteousness.

In accepting Christ we accept God's basis for an eternal relationship with Himself. And it requires not just that we accept how Christ has lived, but that we recognize that he gave us his Spirit so that we may live a life dependent on his Spirit.

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
 

TheWhat?

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After 2000 years of developments I think this verse should come with a bit of sub-text:

Up to the crucifixion, the only person we have record of professing that Christ was without sin, was the thief on the cross, prior to being promised entrance to paradise. The truth of Christianity is ancient and unchanging. I would posit that it is so ancient and unchanging, that anyone living today, after those 2000 years of developments, living just as Jesus lived, could be in danger of creating another "Jerusalem" scenario.
 
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Clare73

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After 2000 years of developments I think this verse should come with a bit of sub-text:

Up to the crucifixion, the only person we have record of professing that Christ was without sin, was the thief on the cross, prior to being promised entrance to paradise. The truth of Christianity is ancient and unchanging. I would posit that it is so ancient and unchanging, that anyone living today, after those 2000 years of developments, living just as Jesus lived, could be in danger of creating another "Jerusalem" scenario.
Does Jesus' professing that he was without sin in John 8:46 count?
 
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Clare73

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God does not expect us to be perfect. But He does expect us to have a perfect standard, upon which to rely. Christ is that perfect standard, who has given us his Spirit. And if we live a life relying on that Spirit, it proves that we have accepted him as the right standard of righteousness.

The Law of Moses was given to Israel to establish a relationship with God,
The law was given to reveal sin, not to make righteous (Romans 3:20, 5:13, 7:7)
but could not provide a perfect standard for righteousness, because it was administered through imperfect priests.
The law was the standard for righteousness, but it was not given for righteousness, nor did the imperfection of the priests have anything to do with that.
Because of their human flaws, they showed that their own works were flawed, and that
human death remained a hindrance to unbroken relationship with God.
Death does not separate God's people from him.
Christ came to fulfill Israel's hope in an eternal relationship with God.
His own flawless life was not threatened by sin and death,
Jesus thought he was seriously threatened by death from the Jews (John 8:37, 41, 44).
He was right and suffered death, as all human beings do.
he could offer us his Spirit as the basis for obtaining this eternal relationship with God.
Offerering up his Spirit is not what "obtained this eternal relationship with God."
It was the bloody sacrifice of himself as atonement for the sin of those who believe in and trust on him and his atonement (blood--Romans 3:25) for the remission of their sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," justified, reconciled.
Now that Christ has come, we have an example of righteousness that is free of the curse of sin and death. We cannot attain perfection on our own, but we've been given the opportunity to live in dependence upon Christ's perfect Spirit to show our preference for God's perfect standard of righteousness.

In accepting Christ we accept God's basis for an eternal relationship with Himself.
And that basis is belief in and trust on Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice for reconciliation with God.
And it requires not just that we accept how Christ has lived, but that we recognize that he gave us his Spirit so that we may live a life dependent on his Spirit.

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
 
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fhansen

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God is love; He’s that good. And He demonstrated and proved it most emphatically on the cross. And He wants us to love, to know and to have and to share that love and the happiness intrinsic to it, as He does, to the greatest extent possible. And that love excludes sin and compels righteous acts by its nature. And only He can accomplish that love in us. He doesn’t demand absolute perfection in this life but ultimately that goal will be achieved in us, defined by the greatest commandments as loving Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. Our only role is to accept, to acknowledge and embrace that love, to love Him because He first loved us. And then to continue to choose and walk in and grow in that love daily to the best we can.

That’s the road, the journey, God wants us on, and to get back on if we stray. That’s the path of authentic justice or righteousness for man. It begins with faith, the establishment of relationship/union with Him. It’s “the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith”. Phil 3:9. It’s God placing His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts as He first of all becomes our God again. Jer 31:33. Because, “Love fulfills the law”. Rom 13:10

And because, “Apart from Me you can do nothing.” John 15:5
That’s the basis of the New Covenant. Man is obligated to that righteousness, obligated to love. We just can’t do it without Him, and separation from Him is the very basis of man’s injustice/ unrighteousness. Jesus came to reveal and to reconcile us with the true God-so that we may know Him, and by knowing Him we might believe in Him and so place our hope in, and, most importantly, come to love Him.
“Now this is eternal life: that they know you,the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3
 
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RandyPNW

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The law was given to reveal sin, not to make righteous (Romans 3:20, 5:13, 7:7)
The law was the standard for righteousness, but it was not given for righteousness, nor did the imperfection of the priests have anything to do with that.

You are repeating Scriptural statements without understanding them. The Law of Moses was indeed given to make righteous. The Bible is replete with proof of that!

Paul was not denying that. He only stated what I also am stating, that the Law could not make perfect, and could not obtain, for flawed men, eternal life.

The Law confirmed what had been true since the fall of Man, that Man had been infected with the Sin Nature, and was no longer eligible for the Tree of Life. That Law was simply stating that although Man could continue in a relationship with God, and be righteous, it was insufficient to last for an eternity.

Death does not separate God's people from him.

Yes it does. That's why the Old Covenant was incomplete, because it did not deal with the problem of Death.

Obviously, God is omnipresent, and human beings continue to exist following death. The point, however, is that God made a place for Man on earth to live in fellowship with Himself. Dying is the removal of Man from that paradise.

Jesus thought he was seriously threatened by death from the Jews (John 8:37, 41, 44).
He was right and suffered death, as all human beings do.

Jesus was sinless, unlike "all humans." He did not have to die, except that it was God's will for him to do so for our sake.

Offerering up his Spirit is not what "obtained this eternal relationship wihh God."
It was the bloody sacrifice of himself as atonement for the sin of those who believe in and trust on him and his atonement (blood--Romans 3:25) for the remission of their sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," justified, reconciled.

You think our Salvation is acquired by us without receiving his Spirit? I don't know what planet you're living on? ;)

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
3.24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.


And that basis is belief in and trust on Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice for reconciliation with God.

James 2.8 Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
 
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Clare73

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You are repeating Scriptural statements without understanding them. The Law of Moses was indeed given to make righteous. The Bible is replete with proof of that!
Paul was not denying that. He only stated what I also am stating, that the Law could not make perfect, and could not obtain, for flawed men, eternal life.
Are you sure about that? This is not orhodox Christianity.

"No one is justified by the law, because "righteousness is by faith"
(Habkkuk 2:4)," it is not by law--Galatians 3:11-12 (Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16).

The law was not given for righteousness, because righteousness has always been by faith (Genesis 15:6; Habkkuk 2:4).
The Law confirmed what had been true since the fall of Man, that Man had been infected with the Sin Nature, and was no longer eligible for the Tree of Life. That Law was simply stating that although Man could continue in a relationship with God, and be righteous, it was insufficient to last for an eternity.
Not according to the NT. . .this is not orthodox Christianity.
Yes it does. That's why the Old Covenant was incomplete, because it did not deal with the problem of Death.
What problem of which death?

The OC was incomplete because Christ had not yet fulfilled it by his atoning death, but believers in the Promise (Genesis 15:5; i.e., Christ) who died under it went to the Paradise of Sheol; i.e., Abraham's bosom.
Obviously, God is omnipresent, and human beings continue to exist following death. The point, however, is that God made a place for Man on earth to live in fellowship with Himself. Dying is the removal of Man from that paradise.
Only those in Christ Jesus live in fellowship with God, and it has nothing to do with "place" on earth, and only to do with faith.

Likewise, the NT reveals that to be absent from the body (death) is equivalent to presence with the Lord (Philippians 1:21-23). Death does not separate us from God in Christ.
Jesus was sinless, unlike "all humans." He did not have to die, except that it was God's will for him to do so for our sake.

You think our Salvation is acquired by us without receiving his Spirit? I don't know what planet you're living on? ;)
You think his Spirit returning to God in death is us receiving his Spirit?
On whatever planet you are living, this is not NT teaching, nor orthodox Christianity.
1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
3.24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
James 2.8 Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
Are you denying Romans 4:5--the God who justifies the wicked by faith, Romans 4:3,
Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28, etc.?

This is not orthodox Christianity.
 
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Brightfame52

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God does not expect us to be perfect. But He does expect us to have a perfect standard, upon which to rely. Christ is that perfect standard, who has given us his Spirit. And if we live a life relying on that Spirit, it proves that we have accepted him as the right standard of righteousness.

The Law of Moses was given to Israel to establish a relationship with God, but could not provide a perfect standard for righteousness, because it was administered through imperfect priests. Because of their human flaws, they showed that their own works were flawed, and that human death remained a hindrance to unbroken relationship with God.

Christ came to fulfill Israel's hope in an eternal relationship with God. His own flawless life was not threatened by sin and death, and he could offer us his Spirit as the basis for obtaining this eternal relationship with God.

Now that Christ has come, we have an example of righteousness that is free of the curse of sin and death. We cannot attain perfection on our own, but we've been given the opportunity to live in dependence upon Christ's perfect Spirit to show our preference for God's perfect standard of righteousness.

In accepting Christ we accept God's basis for an eternal relationship with Himself. And it requires not just that we accept how Christ has lived, but that we recognize that he gave us his Spirit so that we may live a life dependent on his Spirit.

1 John 2.3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.
Christs righteousness is imputed to all for whom He lived and died. Their sins were imputed to Christ and His Righteousness is imputed to them. 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
 
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RandyPNW

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Christs righteousness is imputed to all for whom He lived and died. Their sins were imputed to Christ and His Righteousness is imputed to them. 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Yes, but a major point I wished to make is that that imputation means nothing unless Christ's Spirit replicates in the believer the virtues of Christ. Would you impute to a dollar bill, or other currency, a value if it is a counterfeit, or if it can't, for some reason, actually be spent? Of course not.

Neither is imputing righteousness to Christians of any value unless they are actually able and willing to demonstrate that righteousness.

James 2.17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
 
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RandyPNW

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Are you sure about that? This is not orhodox Christianity.

Perhaps you don't understand my argument? Perhaps you don't understand orthodoxy? I'm not sure.

"No one is justified by the law, because "righteousness is by faith"
(Habkkuk 2:4)," it is not by law--Galatians 2:11-12 (Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16).

In context, Paul was talking about eternal righteousness or righteousness that leads to eternal life. Paul was *not* talking about generic righteousness, in the sense that the Law gave life to Israel through their obedience.

Can you read Psalm 119 and with a straight face deny that the Law provided righteousness to Israel?

After all, God gave Israel the Law so that they would be righteous and be viewed as accepted by God. Even if it wasn't the basis for eternal life, it certainly was the basis of a continuous relationship between God and Israel.

The OC was incomplete because Christ had not yet fulfilled it by his atoning death, but believers in the Promise (Genesis 15:5; i.e., Christ) who died under it went to the Paradise of Sheol; i.e., Abraham's bosom.
Only those in Christ Jesus live in fellowship with God, and it has nothing to do with "place" on earth, and only to do with faith.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? I agree the OC was incomplete, but it did provide fellowship between God and Israel. OT saints did go to a waiting place until Christ provided for their eternal atonement. None of us will obtain the resurrection until Christ comes back.

You think his Spirit returning to God in death is us receiving his Spirit?
On whatever planet you are living, this is not NT teaching, nor orthodox Christianity.

"Planet I'm living on?" What did I say that deserves that kind of insult? I said nothing about receiving God's Spirit at death!

Are you denying Romans 4:5--the God who justifies the wicked by faith, Romans 4:3,
Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28, etc.?

This is not orthodox Christianity.

No, of course I don't deny that all men are sinners, and that justification is by Christ alone. Where have I said otherwise? And yet, the Scriptures positively require that our faith, for justification, be the kind of faith that demonstrates itself by works.

It is meaningless to say you accept Christ and yet not actually receive his Spirit! Nominal acceptance of Christianity is a path that often leads to destruction, if it is not accompanied by regenerate living.
 
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Brightfame52

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Yes, but a major point I wished to make is that that imputation means nothing unless Christ's Spirit replicates in the believer the virtues of Christ. Would you impute to a dollar bill, or other currency, a value if it is a counterfeit, or if it can't, for some reason, actually be spent? Of course not.

Neither is imputing righteousness to Christians of any value unless they are actually able and willing to demonstrate that righteousness.

James 2.17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Its a mistake to say that because it detracts from the value of Christs death and Gods legal acceptance of it on behalf of those He died for. Thats why God is said to justify the Ungodly.
 
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Clare73

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Perhaps you don't understand my argument? Perhaps you don't understand orthodoxy? I'm not sure.
Good response. . .

However, I do understand your argument. . .it is based in the OT, and not in the NT full and complete revelation.
In context, Paul was talking about eternal righteousness or righteousness that leads to eternal life. Paul was *not* talking about generic righteousness, in the sense that the Law gave life to Israel through their obedience.
"Generic righteousness" does not save from the wrath of God (Romans 5:9), does not reconcile anyone to God, does not give fellowship with God, does not make one a son of God, etc.
It may bring physical earthly blessings, but nothing spiritual or eternal.
There is only one true righteousness, the righteousness of God and Jesus Christ (Romans 1:17, Romans 3:21-22; Philippians 3:9), there is no other true righteousness.
Can you read Psalm 119 and with a straight face deny that the Law provided righteousness to Israel?
I can read Psalm 119 in the light of the full and complete NT revelation. . .two things:
1) You do realize that "the Law" was the first five books of the Bible, not just Leviticus, and that "the Law and the Propehts" (Matthew 22:40), as well as "the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms" (Luke 24:44) were names for all of Scripture, right?

2) You do understand the full and complete New Covenant revelation of the NT (i.e., orthodox Christianity) regarding law keeping, right?
That it made no one righteous in God's sight, that it only condemned them for imperfect law keeping, it being a curse for all who relied on it (Galatians 3:10).
After all, God gave Israel the Law so that they would be righteous
Not according to the NT which gives the full and complete revelation regarding the Law:

"No one is justified by the law, because "righteousness is by faith" (Habkkuk 2:4),"
it is not by law--Galatians 3:11-12 (Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16).
and be viewed as accepted by God. Even if it wasn't the basis for eternal life, it certainly was the basis of a continuous relationship between God and Israel.
Actually, the full and complete revelation of the NT is that faith was the basis of a continuous relationship between God and Israel,
faith in the Promise (Genesis 15:5; i.e., the Seed, Christ),
that God's relationship with Israel was cut off because of her unbelief (Romans 9:30-33, Romans 11:20, 23), not because of her failure to keep the Law.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here? I agree the OC was incomplete, but it did provide fellowship between God and Israel. OT saints did go to a waiting place until Christ provided for their eternal atonement. None of us will obtain the resurrection until Christ comes back.
It was the response to your statement that the Old Covenant was incomplete because it did not deal with the problem of death, which separates the believer from God.
My fault. . .I slipped into the state of the NT believer after death, while you were referring to the state of OT believer after death.
Death does not separate the NT believer from Christ, for Paul states that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:21-24).
"Planet I'm living on?" What did I say that deserves that kind of insult? I said nothing about receiving God's Spirit at death!
Again, my fault. . .You said nothing to deserve that kind of insult.
I read "offer up his Spirit as the basis for obtaining this relationship"
rather than your "offer us his Spirit as the basis for obtainin this reltionship," hence my comment, "not orthodox Christianity."
No, of course I don't deny that all men are sinners, and that justification is by Christ alone. Where have I said otherwise? And yet, the Scriptures positively require that our faith, for justification, be the kind of faith that demonstrates itself by works.
Works are necessary for true faith. Without works, it is not true faith, it is counterfeit faith.

But justification is by the faith only, it is not by faith's necessary works (Romans 4:5, Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28).
Nominal acceptance of Christianity is a path that often leads to destruction, if it is not accompanied by regenerate living.
Agreed.

Looks like we're more in agreement than I realized. . .and then maybe not. . .sorry for all my confusion on the matter.
 
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RandyPNW

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Good response. . .
However, I do understand your argument. . .it is based in the OT, and not in the NT full and complete revelation.
"Generic righteousness" does not save from the wrath of God (Romans 5:9), does not reconcile anyone to God, does not give fellowship with God, does not make one a son of God, etc.
It may bring physical earthly blessings, but nothing spiritual or eternal.

This is where you're going off, I think. The Law did bring both earthly and spiritual blessings. But you're right--its righteousness could not bring eternal life, which is what I would say, as well.

There isn't a blessing from God, under the Law, that was not meant to be spiritual. I don't get where you think that God's blessings under the Law were meant to be "earthly," but not "spiritual?"

Rom 7.14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

The Law was most certainly spiritual, as Paul says, and it brought Israel earthly blessings, as well as a connection with God in terms of spiritual virtues. It just couldn't bring eternal life, because that would only come by the atonement of Christ. The Law was *preparatory* for the atonement of Christ, but not opposed to it!

The Law was designed to help Israel to achieve righteousness. But at the same time, it revealed that no matter how much righteousness they did, they showed their sinful attitudes, as well. The Law was given both to give Israel righteousness and to reveal the sin that kept them from having eternal life, ie until the atonement of Christ.

There is only one true righteousness, the righteousness of God and Jesus Christ (Romans 1:17, Romans 3:21-22; Philippians 3:9), there is no other true righteousness.

While it's true that there is only one righteousness that gets us to heaven, or gets us to eternal life, it is not true that the OT Law was not righteousness! It was a temporary form of righteousness until Christ's atonement took place, to seal the deal.

Matt 5.20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The righteousness of the Law was being abused by the Pharisees, who had become corrupt followers of the Law. But the righteousness of the Law Jesus spoke of was observance of the totality of the Law.

Matt 5.19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

But justification is by the faith only, it is not by faith's necessary works (Romans 4:5, Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28).
Agreed.

Looks like we're more in agreement than I realized. . .and then maybe not. . .sorry for all my confusion on the matter.

I get this often. I consider myself very orthodox in my beliefs, but in wording things in a way that I best express it I'm often felt to be out of compliance with the *exact* wording of Scriptures.

But rarely has anybody proven that I'm not orthodox, doctrinally, if at all. There was one occasion where I got into the Trinity where the argument was too complex for either me or the other guy to say who was more orthodox in the way we say it. ;)
 
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Clare73

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This is where you're going off, I think. The Law did bring both earthly and spiritual blessings. But you're right--its righteousness could not bring eternal life, which is what I would say, as well.
and that is "because righteousness is by faith" (Habkkuk 2:4)," it is not by law--Galatians 3:11-12 (Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16).
There isn't a blessing from God, under the Law, that was not meant to be spiritual. I don't get where you think that God's blessings under the Law were meant to be "earthly," but not "spiritual?"
Rom 7.14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
Yes, but the spiritual blessing was passing over (covering of) their sin (Romans 3:25) by the sacrifices until the true atoning sacrifrice was offered.
There was no righteousness conferrred by lawkeeping, "because righteousness is by faith." (Galatians 3:11-12)
The Law was most certainly spiritual, as Paul says, and it brought Israel earthly blessings, as well as a connection with God in terms of spiritual virtues. It just couldn't bring eternal life, because that would only come by the atonement of Christ. The Law was *preparatory* for the atonement of Christ, but not opposed to it!

The Law was designed to help Israel to achieve righteousness.
One more time. . .The law was not for righteousness "because righteousness is only by faith,"
it is not by law. (Galatians 3:11-12, Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16)
 
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The Law was designed to help Israel to achieve righteousness. But at the same time, it revealed that no matter how much righteousness they did, they showed their sinful attitudes, as well. The Law was given both to give Israel righteousness and to reveal the sin that kept them from having eternal life, ie until the atonement of Christ.

The Law was never given to Israel to achieve righteousness. It was always a schoolmaster for the elect remnant to put faith in Christ, the coming seed of women Gen 3:15 Gal 3:24
 
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RandyPNW

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and that is because "righteousness is by faith" (Habkkuk 2:4)," it is not by law--Galatians 2:11-12 (Acts 13:39; Romans 3:20; Galatians 2:16).

This is a misreading of what Paul was saying! He was not saying that righteousness is not by Law, but that *eternal righteousness* is by faith alone, ie by faith in Christ's atonement.

Paul often speaks in abbreviated terms. By "righteousness" he is speaking of "eternal righteousness!"

Yes, but the spiritual blessing was passing over (covering of) their sin by the sacrifices until the true atoning sacrifrice was offered.
There was no righteousness conferrred by lawkeeping, because "righteousness is by faith."


You're completely misreading this! Paul is saying that "eternal righteousness" is by faith alone. He is not saying that there is no obedience and no righteousness under the Law! Animal sacrifices did not render the Law disobedience and unrighteousness. No, if God asked Israel to offer animal sacrifices, it was righteousness for them to do so!

Animal sacrifices were a temporary covering for sin, to keep Israel in relationship with God, until eternal atonement could be provided by Christ's atonement. Do you actually believe that Israel's obedience under the Law was "unrighteousness," that Moses was "unrighteous?" That David was "unrighteous?" That the Prophets were "unrighteous?"

I know the comeback to this, that they were all justified by faith, and not by the Law. But even though they did have faith, their obedience under the Law was considered "righteousness," even if they had to wait until Christ's sacrifice to obtain their eternal vindication.

Not even faith received full justification while the saints were still under the Law! It required the atonement of Christ for their faith to obtain full justification.

Matt 5.17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus was not telling Israel to ignore the Law simply because the Pharisees followed the Law insincerely. No, he called upon his followers to obey the Law, and to thereby obtain righteousness. This would not bring eternal life, but it was a faith that ultimately would be grounded in Christ's atonement.
 
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RandyPNW

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randypnw



The Law was never given to Israel to achieve righteousness. It was always a schoolmaster for the elect remnant to put faith in Christ, the coming seed of women Gen 3:15 Gal 3:24

I would say to you what I've said to others. You don't understand Paul in this. He wasn't saying that obedience under the Law was unrighteousness. On the contrary, Jesus said obeying more Law meant more righteousness, as long as that covenant remained in effect.

Paul was using "righteousness" as a shortcut for "eternal righteousness." The righteousness under the Law could not obtain *eternal status* until Christ's atonement was accomplished. That does not mean that obedience to the Law was unnecessary or unrighteous. On the contrary.
 
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Brightfame52

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I would say to you what I've said to others. You don't understand Paul in this. He wasn't saying that obedience under the Law was unrighteousness. On the contrary, Jesus said obeying more Law meant more righteousness, as long as that covenant remained in effect.

Paul was using "righteousness" as a shortcut for "eternal righteousness." The righteousness under the Law could not obtain *eternal status* until Christ's atonement was accomplished. That does not mean that obedience to the Law was unnecessary or unrighteous. On the contrary.
It seems you dont understand Paul in this matter.
 
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Clare73

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This is a misreading of what Paul was saying! He was not saying that righteousness is not by Law, but that *eternal righteousness* is by faith alone, ie by faith in Christ's atonement.
Paul often speaks in abbreviated terms. By "righteousness" he is speaking of "eternal righteousness!"
You're completely misreading this! Paul is saying that "eternal righteousness" is by faith alone. He is not saying that there is no obedience and no righteousness under the Law! Animal sacrifices did not render the Law disobedience and unrighteousness. No, if God asked Israel to offer animal sacrifices, it was righteousness for them to do so!

Animal sacrifices were a temporary covering for sin, to keep Israel in relationship with God, until eternal atonement could be provided by Christ's atonement. Do you actually believe that Israel's obedience under the Law was "unrighteousness," that Moses was "unrighteous?" That David was "unrighteous?" That the Prophets were "unrighteous?"
Yes, Paul does use "righteousness" to mean "right action" e.g., Romans 6:18-20, 13, 16; Ephesians 6:14, in the process of sanctification leading to holiness (Romans 6:19). But for the most part, he uses it of the gift of Christ's righteousness in justification apart from works (Romans 4:5).

My objection was to your
"imputation means nothing unless Christ's Spirit replicates in the believer the virtues of Christ."

Imputation (Romans 5:18-19) of Christ's righteousness (1 Corinthians 1:30) can never mean nothing.

For there is no imputation of Christ's righteousness to those who are not born again.
And those who are born again have true faith, which always has works.

For if there are no works, it is because there is no true faith,
because there is no new birth, because there is no Holy Spirit and,
therefore,
no imputation of Christ's righteousness,
and not because "imputation of Christ's righteousness means nothing."
I know the comeback to this, that they were all justified by faith, and not by the Law.
But even though they did have faith,
their obedience under the Law was considered "righteousness," even if they had to wait until Christ's sacrifice to obtain their eternal vindication.
But that was the righteousnesss of sanctification through obedience in the Holy Spirit, which is not their vincdication.
Vindication is only by the justification (declared "not guilty") of salvation (sin remitted)
through faith (
apart from works--Romans 4:5),
where the
righteousness of Jesus Christ is imputed/credited to them (Romans 5:18-19), just as Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness to him (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:5, Romans 5:18-19).
Not even faith received full justification while the saints were still under the Law! It required the atonement of Christ for their faith to obtain full justification.
Was not Abraham justifief by his faith in the Promise (Genesis 5:5, the Seed, Jesus Christ)
before the Law (Genesis 5:6; Romans 4:3)?
Matt 5.17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
Which it does in the imputed righteousness (Romans 5:18-19) of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30).
Jesus was not telling Israel to ignore the Law simply because the Pharisees followed the Law insincerely. No, he called upon his followers to obey the Law, and to thereby obtain righteousness.
That would be the righteousness of sanctification, not the imputed righteousness of justification by faith apart from the law (Romans 4:5, 3:21, 28).
This would not bring eternal life, but it was a faith that ultimately would be grounded in Christ's atonement.
And which faith, apart from law, justified them, while their obedience to the law sanctified them.
 
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