Pfizer vaccine receives FDA approval.

TLK Valentine · Aug 26, 2021

RaymondG said:
Just when I thought we could end on a positive note....you come and pull this off... It is like you've forgotten all previous posts.

Forgotten or disbelieved...

Again.....no one said businesses do not have a right to do anything. Do I have a right to state that I disagree with any action? If the government or a business passes a law or takes an action.... Is it now illegal to say that I disagree with it or that I dont like it?

Disagree all you want -- is it now illegal to disagree with your disagreement?

Yes but the government is removing funding for other businesses and institutions that dont comply as well..... (Since this confuses you sometimes.....I'll state again, that the previous sentence is a statement of fact and does not contain my opinion on the action stated.)

Facts require substantiation -- what I've seen thus far is certain governors threatening to remove funding for institutions which do make mandates.

Which is within their legal right to do -- as it is within my own legal right to claim they are irredeemably stupid for doing so.

They are making it difficult for business to not mandate, even if they wanted to.

Again, some facts would go a long way to substantiate this.

Getting layed off, or downsides for business reasons, is different than being let go because you refused to inject something into your body.

In business terms, it's really not. The one who signs the paychecks makes the rules. If you don't like the rules, then you need to find someone else to sign your paychecks.

Many businesses (and nearly all schools) require a list of vaccinations from their employees for health and safety purposes... adding one more to the list is nothing special.

If you do not understand this difference, than we will not be able to understand one anothers view on this topic and any further words would be wasted.

I understand all too well that there is precious little difference. No business is being forced to mandate vaccines -- they choose to do so.

If you do not like your employer's choices, find yourself a new employer. But don't blame the government for your choices... or theirs.

RaymondG · Aug 26, 2021

TLK Valentine said:
Forgotten or disbelieved...

Disagree all you want -- is it now illegal to disagree with your disagreement?

Yes but the government is removing funding for other businesses and institutions that dont comply as well..... (Since this confuses you sometimes.....I'll state again, that the previous sentence is a statement of fact and does not contain my opinion on the action stated.)

I find no fault in anything you have said or believe/disbelieve... My comments to others will not change that. Thanks for the conversation......again.

TLK Valentine · Aug 26, 2021

Landon Caeli said:
Abstract thinking, spirituality and philosophical thought are very useful for those seeking happiness, progress, and wisdom in their lives. For those pessimists who prefer strict realism, that's their choice... Boring as it may be.

And yet, philosophical thought and spirituality with no relevance to the here and now is a waste of time and effort. Philosophers who strand themselves in Utopian fantasies are of no use in the real world... or to themselves, really.

TLK Valentine · Aug 26, 2021

RaymondG said:
I find no fault in anything you have said or believe/disbelieve... My comments to others will not change that. Thanks for the conversation......again.

Much as I wish I could say the same, I would like to see some substantiation to the claim that the government is withholding funding to private businesses which do not mandate vaccines.

This is not to say I do not believe you; but it is a fault to make a claim of fact without proof.

RaymondG · Aug 26, 2021

TLK Valentine said:
Much as I wish I could say the same, I would like to see some substantiation to the claim that the government is withholding funding to private businesses which do not mandate vaccines.

This is not to say I do not believe you; but it is a fault to make a claim of fact without proof.

"President Joe Biden announced on Wednesday that he is directing all nursing homes to require their staff be vaccinated against Covid-19 in order to continue receiving Medicare and Medicaid funding."

There are many local examples....but this is the easiest to verify being that it is US wide.

I hope this is enough to conclude this conversation. Thanks

TLK Valentine · Aug 26, 2021

RaymondG said:
"President Joe Biden announced on Wednesday that he is directing all nursing homes to require their staff be vaccinated against Covid-19 in order to continue receiving Medicare and Medicaid funding."

There are many local examples....but this is the easiest to verify being that it is US wide.

I hope this is enough to conclude this conversation. Thanks

As we agreed -- the one who signs your checks makes the rules.

It seems perfectly reasonable that medical employees receiving federal Medicare and Medicaid funding should follow federal medical guidelines... which include adding one more vaccination to the already lengthy list of requirements.

...The government is mandating nothing, merely offering a choice -- follow the new rules, or they won't give you extra money.

RaymondG · Aug 26, 2021

TLK Valentine said:
As we agreed -- the one who signs your checks makes the rules.

It seems perfectly reasonable that medical employees receiving federal Medicare and Medicaid funding should follow federal medical guidelines... which include adding one more vaccination to the already lengthy list of requirements.

...The government is mandating nothing, merely offering a choice -- follow the new rules, or they won't give you extra money.

I only provided the info because you asked for it...... now that I know that answering your replies is also wrong im your eyes, I will refrain from doing so.

TLK Valentine · Aug 26, 2021

RaymondG said:
I only provided the info because you asked for it...... now that I know that answering your replies is also wrong im your eyes, I will refrain from doing so.

Wrong, you say... You haven't been very good at seeing the world through my eyes, so you might want to refrain from attempting to do so.

ETA: You're implying some sort of sinister motivations behind government actions which are, in fact, perfectly reasonable. The government gives federal money on the condition of following federal guidelines....always has, and it would be irresponsible of them to do otherwise.

Landon Caeli · Aug 26, 2021

TLK Valentine said:
And yet, philosophical thought and spirituality with no relevance to the here and now is a waste of time and effort. Philosophers who strand themselves in Utopian fantasies are of no use in the real world... or to themselves, really.

Well then, I hope you don't mind me introducing more philosophical thought more frequently in future threads, as that's exactly what I intend to do.

Landon Caeli · Aug 26, 2021

As a matter of fact, I just borrowed Kant's Critique of Pure Reason from the public library, as an indication of how enthused I am about philosophical thought.

TLK Valentine · Aug 26, 2021

Landon Caeli said:
Well then, I hope you don't mind me introducing more philosophical thought more frequently in future threads, as that's exactly what I intend to do.

Hopefully not at the cost of utility or relevance.

TLK Valentine · Aug 26, 2021

Landon Caeli said:
As a matter of fact, I just borrowed Kant's Critique of Pure Reason from the public library, as an indication of how enthused I am about philosophical thought.

Bah -- Kant's a lightweight; Husserl's where it's at.

KCfromNC · Aug 26, 2021

RaymondG said:
Yes it has......Where I am, most of the jobs are mandating it..... All health care workers are mandated, all public school workers k-12 are mandated.... etc...

The local government has been strongly encouraging all local businesses to mandate vaccines for months.... and most have since the FDA approvals.

I think you might have missed the point of my post, that vaccines have been "forced" on people for a long time now. And yet for some reason, we're only hearing that it is a major infringement on peoples' freedoms recently.

Strathos · Aug 26, 2021

KCfromNC said:
Neither is getting vaccinated. These repeated attempts to retreat to hyperbole just makes it look like there aren't any fact based anti-vaxx arguments.

Bingo.

RaymondG said:
Consider the adulterer brought out into the open and stoned. For I believe many would read and take it as negatively as you desire for it to be taken. You should feel proud of yourself.

Please move along now, if you have nothing to share on the topic at hand.

What are you talking about? Why don't you just answer my question? It's not difficult.

Bradskii · Aug 26, 2021

spiritfilledjm said:
That's the point many people are trying to make, at least here in America. People should be allowed to choose what they want to do with their own bodies and medical care, that it is not the government's job to force folks to stay at home, avoid contact with everyone, wear a mask wherever they go, get a vaccine that was approved for general distribution in a matter of weeks and months as opposed to the 12 years it takes for most medications to get full FDA approval. At least, that's all I'm saying. If I choose to wear a mask, great, it's my choice, if I choose to not go to events with a lot of people, cool, it's my choice, if I choose to stay 6 feet away from everyone, cool...it's my choice.

Personally, I think it is wise to mask, social distance and what not. If someone gets to close, I choose to move away...but that was even before COVID lol. A lot of folks aren't so much arguing against the recommended precautions as they are arguing against what they feel is government overreach into their right to choose their medical care and forcing people to do what they want them to do.

But if we take that attitude to the logical extreme then there would be nothing stopping people having huge parties, concerts, rallies etc and nobody wearing masks. We've seen what people do when there are restrictions in place. How bad do younthink this would this get if there were none?

You've had over 600,000 deaths with restrictions. This isn't a hypothetical - I'd like you to answer this: What death rate would be acceptable to you to allow everyone the freedom to choose whether to wear a mask or not?

Bradskii · Aug 26, 2021

RestoreTheJoy said:
We have been doing that - masking and distancing - for over a year and it is still spreading in waves, meaning people are testing positive (not necessarily sick). Yes, I'm wearing a mask too. I have no problem with that until this is over as I have already stated, so I'm not sure why you think I'm excluding myself (??)

Then you are doing the right thing. And we should be encouraging others to do the same.

Bradskii · Aug 26, 2021

Landon Caeli said:
As a matter of fact, I just borrowed Kant's Critique of Pure Reason from the public library, as an indication of how enthused I am about philosophical thought.

I can't seem to find the words to say how impressed I am. And you play the banjo!

Sigh...

Ana the Ist · Aug 26, 2021

Desk trauma said:
Like all those drunk people having their right to freedom of movement abridged by the tyranny of drunk driving laws. The horror.

....someone should tell the Biden Administration that the million or so unvaccinated people who crossed the border this year are basically the equivalent of unleashing a million drunk drivers onto the road.

Perhaps he could put Kamala Harris on the problem and she'll get to the source of the problem by.....fixing the world? Anything other than actually controlling who crosses our borders. That's xenophobic...or covidphobic depending upon how ridiculous your analogies are.

Also, the vaccinated can still contract and spread the disease so let's stop pretending that one group is putting people at risk and the other isn't.

spiritfilledjm · Aug 26, 2021

Bradskii said:
You've had over 600,000 deaths with restrictions. This isn't a hypothetical - I'd like you to answer this: What death rate would be acceptable to you to allow everyone the freedom to choose whether to wear a mask or not?

Any and all, because it's my choice regardless. Just like I chose to wear a mask when I went to Walmart today, I choose to work from home because I do over-the-phone customer service, where I don't need to be in an office, I chose to get the antibody infusion that my doctor suggested when I caught COVID. None of these were forced on me with ultimatums and threats of job loss or increased health insurance premiums or not being allowed to shop in a business because it required it. In the state I live in, masks are recommended but not required, yet I chose to do so because it was my choice to make. Without the freedom of choice, one is nothing more than a slave.

ThisIsMe123 · Aug 26, 2021

Ana the Ist said:
....someone should tell the Biden Administration that the million or so unvaccinated people who crossed the border this year are basically the equivalent of unleashing a million drunk drivers onto the road.

Perhaps he could put Kamala Harris on the problem and she'll get to the source of the problem by.....fixing the world? Anything other than actually controlling who crosses our borders. That's xenophobic...or covidphobic depending upon how ridiculous your analogies are.

Also, the vaccinated can still contract and spread the disease so let's stop pretending that one group is putting people at risk and the other isn't.

Right, so in order for this to work ALL need to be wearing masks, and ALL need to get vaccinated. Barring any medical issues that prevent you from doing so.

Pfizer vaccine receives FDA approval.

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