Free Will - God's test that all mankind flunks

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Who made that rule?

Where is that in Scripture?

Do you remember in Scripture when the Canaanite woman made an extended parable (real world example) upon Jesus’ parable about how even the dogs can eat the crumbs? What this shows is that we can make parables or real world examples, too. For Jesus did not correct the woman and tell her only He can make parables (real world examples to compare with spiritual truth). I say this because if we can be like the Canaanite woman and make a parable or real world example, then Calvinism does not stand a chance. For we know by real life examples that love is not something that is considered true love if it’s forced in some way. For example: If a man forces his love upon a woman and the woman does not want his love, and he tries to brain wash her to love him, it would not be real love or nature love of them both agreeing of their own choice to love each other.
 
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Clare73

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Do you remember in Scripture when the Canaanite woman made an extended parable (real world example) upon Jesus’ parable about how even the dogs can eat the crumbs? What this shows is that we can make parables or real world examples, too. For Jesus did not correct the woman and tell her only He can make parables (real world examples to compare with spiritual truth).
I say this because if we can be like the Canaanite woman and make a parable or real world example, then Calvinism does not stand a chance. For we know by real life examples that love is not something that is considered true love if it’s forced in some way. For example: If a man forces his love upon a woman and the woman does not want his love, and he tries to brain wash her to love him, it would not be real love or nature love of them both agreeing of their own choice to love each other.
Apples and oranges, my friend.

The woman made no parable. A parable has a beginning, a middle and an end. It's a story.

Jesus stated a law. She countered a law with a metaphoric expression, which was not an attempt to alter the law Jesus stated, but to consider an exception to it. Having all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 26:64, 28:18; Luke 10:22; John 13:3, 13), Jesus had the power to make an exception to the law. But Jesus' exception did not change the law, its principle or its meaning.

Jesus making an exception to the law in response to the Canaanite woman is not an example nor a precedent for using human experience or reasoning to judge the validity of what the Scriptures state and teach.
For we know by real life examples that love is not something that is considered true love if it’s forced in some way. For example: If a man forces his love upon a woman and the woman does not want his love, and he tries to brain wash her to love him, it would not be real love or nature love of them both agreeing of their own choice to love each other.
Where does Paul legislate, teach or imply that love is forced?
You misunderstand Paul.

"Free Will" means the power to be sinless.

Man does not have "Free Will," he has "limited free will," i.e., the ability to choose and do what he prefers without external force or constraint.

God working in one's disposition to give him to prefer loving God means the man freely and willingly chooses what he prefers without external force or contraint.
He is exercising his free will in loving God, not violating it.
 
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What's Calvin got to do with Paul?

Yes, and his foreknowledge means of what he has decreed shall be, not of what man is going to do.

"Known to the Lord for ages is his work." (Acts 15:8)

Well, first, I quoted Peter, and not Paul. Second, your ignoring of the bolded words in red I pointed out to you in 1 Peter 1:1-2 in how God the Father elects according to foreknowledge. This truth is not going to go away just because you want it to. It’s in the Bible and it’s there to stay.

As for Acts of the Apostles 15:8:

It states: “And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;” (Acts of the Apostles 15:8) (KJB).

So maybe you misquoted it?
 
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Apples and oranges, my friend.

That really does not address the problem in Calvinism. You want Calvinism to work despite it not aligning with reality or the real world. Yet, Jesus illustrated spiritual truth with the real world all the time, and He even accepted an extended real world example from the Canaanite woman.
 
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Uh. . .what I feel?

What's that got to do with God's truth?

What I feel is, "I feel like believing the word of God written, taken at its word,". . .that's what I feel.

God certainly does not discount emotion.
Behold, the Holy Word says:

Jesus wept (John 11:35).
 
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What about John the Baptist? He had the Holy Spirit since birth.

Of course he did. The Spirit can regenerate spiritual life at any time from conception onward until our physical death. It's the Spirit which decides at which point that will occur. The whole "wind blowing where it listeth" kind of thing.

Regeneration of a person's spirit comes first before the exercise of faith, just like conception begins a human life in the womb before anyone can see outward visible signs of it. Any signs of life following that point of conception are just added proof that life has already begun. Just as any outward acts of faith are signs that spiritual life has already been "conceived" for that person.
 
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This is yet another reason in Scripture why Calvinism does not make any lick of sense.

Isaiah 65:2 says: “I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;”

Now, why would God hold out his hands all the day long to a rebellious people? Why would He do that if He was the One who predestines some to salvation and predestines others to roast over flames for all eternity?
 
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Of course he did. But his conception came first. Regeneration of a person's spirit comes first, just like conception begins a human life in the womb. Any signs of life following that point of conception are just added proof that life has already begun.

But my point here is that not all who are born are condemned.
You believe babies fry over roasted flames? Hey, if that’s kind of God you serve, then by all means… I cannot really help you to see how that is wrong. It would be like having a judgment for dogs or something. Babies and animals really do not have the capacity to know right from wrong yet and to choose the evil. King David certainly did not think his aborted baby was condemned because he had a Calvinistic belief that babies are tortured in the pits of hell. Yeah, just not sure how you cannot see that aborted babies go to hell as not being wrong. Again, a Bible should not have to teach you basic morality. But if you need it to, it most certainly can do that for you. But you must first start by accepting it’s words beginning with 2 Thessalonians 2:10. It says those who perish are perishing because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT BE SAVED. Last we talked, it does not appear like you accept those words in Scripture. For we cannot cherry pick what parts of the Bible we want to believe or not believe. It’s a HOLY Bible that is divine, and not a holey bible with it being full of holes.
 
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Saint Steven

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In your no-doubt well-meant zeal, you are calling God unjust. Be careful.
Do you really view God as the playground bully of the universe? Walking around looking for someone to beat to a pulp, simply because they looked at him funny, or said something that seemed derogatory. Do you assume God has an anger management problem?
 
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Mark Quayle

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It says, "in Adam all" and "in Christ all".
Not, "all in Christ".
Your hopeful exclusionary statement isn't there.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
In context, specially the identifier, "those who belong to him", but also the focus of the discourse, Christ as the 'second Adam', (and not how many will be made alive in Him), the language of the text can easily mean just what I said. The order of the words does not deny that fact. Verse 22 is a restatement of verse 21, which makes no mention of how many.

Also note, in all the Biblical texts concerning his second coming, there are those left behind, or other similar constructions. The coming of Christ Paul refers to here is not to wrap things up to include the final salvation of all people, even on your timetable, I expect.
 
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In context, specially the identifier, "those who belong to him", but also the focus of the discourse, Christ as the 'second Adam', (and not how many will be made alive in Him), the language of the text can easily mean just what I said. The order of the words does not deny that fact. Verse 22 is a restatement of verse 21, which makes no mention of how many.

Also note, in all the Biblical texts concerning his second coming, there are those left behind, or other similar constructions. The coming of Christ Paul refers to here is not to wrap things up to include the final salvation of all people, even on your timetable, I expect.
It's not defined either way. (the firstfruits and those who belong to him) And yes it could mean what you are claiming, AND it could just as plainly mean exactly what it says, "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

1 Corinthians 15:22-24 NIV
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
 
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Do you really view God as the playground bully of the universe? Walking around looking for someone to beat to a pulp, simply because they looked at him funny, or said something that seemed derogatory. Do you assume God has an anger management problem?
No. I see him as God. First Cause. Omnipotent. What he says, is. It is not by way of our assessment of him, but by his very nature.

Does anything you have heard from me about creation, decree, predestination or anything else imply capriciousness, impetuousness and meanness? NO! Only your drawn implications, not by what I said, but by what you THINK they imply. You have a definite presupposition that God behaves according to your notions of love. Read CS Lewis on how God loves. It is an owning (my word —I don't remember his), (among many other things). We are his Dwelling Place. HIS Dwelling Place. He inhabits us. We are his pride and joy. The lost are not.
 
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Apples and oranges, my friend.

The woman made no parable.

She countered a law with an exception, which was not an attempt to alter the law Jesus stated, but to consider an exception. Having all authority in heaven and earth (Matthew 26:64, 28:18; Luke 10:22; John 13:3, 13), Jesus had the power to make an exception to the law. But Jesus' exception did not change the law, its principle or its meaning.

Jesus' making an exception to the law in response to the Canaanite woman is not an example nor a precedent for using human experience or reasoning to overturn what the Scriptures state and teach.

Where does Paul legislate, teach or imply that love is forced?
You misunderstand Paul.

Perhaps we are not on the same page of Scripture.

Behold the scene in God's Word:

“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.” (Matthew 15:27-28).

Notice Jesus did not correct the woman, and say, “Only I can make parables!” But Jesus actually commended her faith in being great. So Jesus was impressed that she made a parable along with continuing to trust in Jesus. This extended parable she made upon the Lord's parable are real world examples. She is drawing from real life in relating to spiritual truth just as Jesus had done. So this means we can do the same thing. If this is the case (Which I believe it is), then the house of Calvinism will simply crumble all on it's own (if Scripture like this is to be believed).
 
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Well, first, I quoted Peter, and not Paul. Second, your ignoring of the bolded words in red I pointed out to you in 1 Peter 1:1-2 in how God the Father elects according to foreknowledge. This truth is not going to go away just because you want it to. It’s in the Bible and it’s there to stay.
You are not responding to the Biblical meaning of "foreknowledge" presented in response to your
1 Peter 1:1-2.
As for Acts of the Apostles 15:8:

It states: “And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;” (Acts of the Apostles 15:8) (KJB).

So maybe you misquoted it?
Yep, you're right.

It should be Acts 15:18.
 
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No. I see him as God. First Cause. Omnipotent. What he says, is. It is not by way of our assessment of him, but by his very nature.

Does anything you have heard from me about creation, decree, predestination or anything else imply capriciousness, impetuousness and meanness? NO! Only your drawn implications, not by what I said, but by what you THINK they imply. You have a definite presupposition that God behaves according to your notions of love. Read CS Lewis on how God loves. It is an owning (my word —I don't remember his), (among many other things). We are his Dwelling Place. HIS Dwelling Place. He inhabits us. We are his pride and joy. The lost are not.

But the problem in Calvinism is that God is by default not electing others (When He has the power and capacity to elect them). So God is basically creating the majority of mankind for the specific purpose or destiny to be tortured alive in flames for all eternity. That is their fate. How is that loving God we see in the Bible? I don't simply see that kind of God described in the Holy Scriptures.
 
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Does anything you have heard from me about creation, decree, predestination or anything else imply capriciousness, impetuousness and meanness? NO!
You did give me a warning, claiming I was calling God unjust. Why would that be a concern? (unless you thought God was likely to beat me to a pulp)
 
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You are not responding to the Biblical meaning of "foreknowledge" presented in response to your
1 Peter 1:1-2.

You don't seem to accept what 1 Peter 1:1-2 says in that God elects according to foreknowledge.

You said:
Don't know what this refers to.

Again, you quoted Acts 15:8 as saying, “Known to the Lord for ages is his work.” and yet I did not see any translation that says this. What translation are you using that says this for Acts 15:8? It is not in the approved Calvinist ESV. Did you misquote this verse?
 
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We are his pride and joy. The lost are not.
(sigh)
Wow, Mark. Did Jesus die for everyone, or just those he planned to save?

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
 
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