The Second Death

grafted branch said:

Let’s read Hebrews 12:22. You have come to … the heavenly Jerusalem.

This isn’t future; we have come to the heavenly Jerusalem.

“You have come to” Strong’s # 4334 Verb – Perfect Indicative Active – 2nd Person Plural

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When that last time nation stop lifting up they sword against nation, or guns against gun, or missle against missle. When the last time you know they nation will learn war no more.

Isaiah 2: 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Did you really take the time and read this, or just want to believe something else. Because it's all future. Isaiah 2: 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

I don't see this happen now, it dangerous to go over there now!


3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

I don't see the house of Jacob now in Jerusalem.

Jesus will sit upon the throne of David on the earth, not in the third heaven.

Isaiah 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Let's go to Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Luke 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Notice in Luke verse 32, the Lord shall give unto him the throne of David. David was the second King of Israel. Where was David's throne located?

I Chronicles 29:26 Thus David the son of Jesse reigned over all Israel. 27 And the time that he reigned over Israel was forty years; seven years reigned he in Hebron, and thirty and three years reigned he in Jerusalem. 28 And he died in a good old age, full of days, riches, and honour: and Solomon his son reigned in his stead.

David's throne was located in Jerusalem. So if David's throne is in Jerusalem, where will Christ reign? In Jerusalem. Here in Psalm 132 pay close attention what the Lord is saying here.

Psalms 132:1 A Song of degrees. LORD, remember David, and all his afflictions: 2 How he sware unto the LORD, and vowed unto the mighty God of Jacob; 3 Surely I will not come into the tabernacle of my house, nor go up into my bed; 4 I will not give sleep to mine eyes, or slumber to mine eyelids, 5 Until I find out a place for the LORD, an habitation for the mighty God of Jacob. 6 Lo, we heard of it at Ephratah: we found it in the fields of the wood. 7 We will go into his tabernacles: we will worship at his footstool. 8 Arise, O LORD, into thy rest; thou, and the ark of thy strength. 9 Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy. 10 For thy servant David's sake turn not away the face of thine anointed. 11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. 12 If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore. 13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. 14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Look at this statement that Lord made in verse 11. Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. This must be Jesus speaking here. What did it say in Luke? Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: He shall reign over the house of Jacob forever.

Notice verse 13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation. Verse 14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it.

Now you see that Jesus kingdom will be here on earth. The Lake Of Fire must be around some where.






to be continue....

Let's go to Isaiah and see if we can find it.

Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

These verses are beyond us, but not too far. Where is the Lord at this time? In his holy mountain Jerusalem. What will happen when all flesh come up to worship him? They will look upon the carcases of the men that transgressed against Him. Where is the Lake Of Fire?

In Jerusalem. Here is something else. Who are these men that are in the Lake Of Fire? Notice all flesh shall come to worship before the Lord. How can this be? We will find out later. Who are these men that are burning and worms eating on them.

Let's go to Revelation and find out. Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. These two are the men that all flesh looked upon when they came up to worship before the Lord. This happened before the great white throne judgment.

Now several questions have been answered. Now we know (1) how you can be put in the Lake Of Fire, (2) where the Son's kingdom will be, (3) where the lake of fire is, and also (4) who will be put into the lake first. Let us also find out who will reign with Christ for this thousand year period.

Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. 4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. 5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.

Look at verse 5, the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. The ungodly will not stand in the congregation of the righteous. What does this mean?

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Why doesn't the righteous stand in the congregation of the ungodly? Look at verse 4 again. Judgment was given unto them, that is why they don't stand in the congregation of sinners. These people were also in the first resurrection.

Let's go to some other places in the scriptures to find out who will reign with Christ.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. 15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. 16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Wait a minute; the Saints are going to take the kingdom by force. Well let's see.

Psalms 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise in the congregation of saints. 2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. 3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. 4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. 5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds. 6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; 7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; 8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

Yes they will take the kingdom by force along with the angels. Now we will take a slight turn using the scriptures only to define Hell. You have to be real definitive when you use the word hell. Hell could be your state of condition, the grave, the earth, and most important the Lake Of Fire.


First let's work with the earth. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

In Jude, why didn't the angel keep there first estate?

II Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Look at Peter here. To be reserved unto judgment. Judgment day hasn't taken place as of yet. Where are the angels? “Chains of darkness” simply means you can not see them. Angels are powerful spirits; if we could see them we wouldn't have a chance at salvation.

I'm speaking of evil angels. We know that judgment day has not taken place, so where are these angels that were cast down to hell?

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Look at verse 8, neither was their place found any more in heaven. If they were not in heaven, where are they? Look at verse 9, he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. When you speak of hell in this case you speak of the earth.

Davy said:

Lot of back and forth that hasn't gotten much anywhere. That's because many brethren refuse to understand about the difference between this earthly dimension and the spiritual dimension. The word "hell" in the KJV NT can mean haides, an ancient Greek idea for the holding place of the wicked in the underworld, or tartaroo, another Greek idea about the deepest area of haides, or the side in Paradise where the rich man of Luke 16 went to, which is essentially the abode of haides, or the future "lake of fire" event when the wicked, and hell, are thrown into it at the end of Christ's future 1,000 years reign.

As for whether those who go into that future "lake of fire" burning forever like a piece of bacon, or are simply consumed and gone with the smoke of their burning rising forever, we will have to wait and see.

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That's a good point and good understanding. Even though the beast and the false prophet will beat Satan in the Lake of Fire, before the great white Judgement. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:19, 20)

These two are the men that all flesh looked upon when they came up to worship before the Lord. This happened before the great white throne judgment.

But let's back up a little and see what the prophet Isaiah say.
Let's go to Isaiah and see if we can find it.

Isaiah 66:20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. 21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. 22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

These verses are beyond us, but not too far. Where is the Lord at this time? In his holy mountain Jerusalem. What will happen when all flesh come up to worship him? They will look upon the carcases of the men that transgressed against Him. Where is the Lake Of Fire? In Jerusalem.

bniffty said:

I think the thief on the cross next to Jesus says it all , unless someone thinks Jesus is being unfair.

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I'm not sure what you mean concerning the thief on the cross. The thief mention paradise, but we talking about the lake of fire or the second death, which is the same.

Davy said:

I understand it a bit differently.

Many forget, or are not aware, that per The New Testament, when Lord Jesus returns, during His future "thousand years" reign, everyone will be in the spiritual body. That future time will be a time on earth like the angelic body state (which is the type body Lord Jesus said the resurrection is). The resurrection body is not another one of flesh.

John 5:28-29 reveals on the day of Christ's return, both resurrection types will happen, one for the Just, and another for the unjust. In 1 Corinthians 15 it doesn't seem... like Apostle Paul is pointing to all peoples still alive being changed at the twinkling of an eye, but in Isaiah 25 where he was pulling from about death swallowed up in victory on that day, it does point to all... nations being changed on that day.

So that time in Isaiah 66:24 is actually pointing to the unsaved during Christ's future reign. It's about the "resurrection of damnation", for they will be there for Christ's future reign, and only those of them that still reject Him will perish in the "lake of fire" at the END of the "thousand years".

Isaiah 14:15-17 goes with that Isaiah 66:24 verse, as the saved will be able to look over into the pit and see Satan, and wonder. Isaiah 24:21-23 is also another example of those locked in the pit prison of hell with Satan during Christ's future Millennial reign.

But still, that pit during Christ's Millennium is not the "lake of fire". Per the end of Revelation 20 it is revealed that the abode of "hell" is to go into... the "lake of fire" and perish at the end of that future Millennium reign by Christ and His elect.

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Looks like you have scramble your scriptures. Let's prove that the beast and the false prophets beat Satan in the lake of God. Let's look at the end of the thousand year period with Jesus, now keep in mind in Revelation 19: 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So go further and see the end period of Jesus reign in Revelation 20: 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So Satan was tied up somewhere else, and it looks like Satan had one last job to do before he got place into the lake of fire where the false beast and prophet is.

Davy said:

I don't have the Scriptures scrambled, that's a false accusation. Before it's over, you'll find that it's you... that has the Scriptures scrambled about this.

I NEVER said the 'beast' and 'false prophet' of Revelation 19:20 doesn't... beat Satan into the "lake of fire".

The 'beast' and 'false prophet' go into the "lake of fire" on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming. But Satan, the "dragon", does not. Revelation 20 shows Satan is locked in his pit prison during Christ's future "thousand years" reign with His elect, which the Isaiah Scripture I quoted agrees, and which Scripture you are clearly oblivious to.



NO, stop right there. Don't continue with associating that Rev.19:20 events with Satan going into the lake of fire at Rev.20:10. And yes, I agree, Satan is locked in his pit prison during Christ's "thousand years" reign, just as the Rev.20 chapter declares. Nothing difficult about that, and it supports those OT Scriptures like in Isaiah that I pointed to, THAT YOU FAILED TO CHECK OUT.

Another important matter that it looks like you have missed about Rev.19:20 regarding the beast and false prophet...

The 'beast' and 'false prophet' are cast into the "lake of fire" on the day of Christ's return, PRIOR to the start of Christ's "thousand years" reign. So when did the GWT Judgment happen for them, if that beast and false prophet were actual flesh men??? Hmmm...?

That beast and false prophet are NOT flesh men; they are ROLES the false-Messiah (Satan himself) will play. Satan is coming as himself but disguised as Christ. Apostle Paul even hinted this to us in 2 Corinthians 11. The "another beast" of Revelation 13:11 forward is pointing to Satan himself. On the day of Christ return, Satan's roles as the 'beast' and 'false prophet' will be destroyed, but notice Rev.19:20 shows the "dragon" (Satan) is not destroyed yet.

Confused... brethren let the Biblical illiterate teach them that God will judge and sentence flesh born man to perish in the lake of fire PRIOR to His Great White Throne Judgment at the end of Christ's future "thousand years" reign! And by that, they go directly... against His Word of Truth, because ONLY... Satan and his angels have ALREADY been judged and sentenced to perish! NO FLESH BORN MAN has been condemned to perish yet today! Anyone who says they do, then they are not speaking of The GOD of The Bible.

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Davy said:

Isaiah 14:15-17 goes with that Isaiah 66:24 verse, as the saved will be able to look over into the pit and see Satan, and wonder. Isaiah 24:21-23 is also another example of those locked in the pit prison of hell with Satan during Christ's future Millennial reign.

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Sorry bro...at this time in Isaiah 66:24 that was the beast and the false prophet, who where the first to go into the lake of fire, not Satan. As I prove already! I also posted the scripture where Satan gets put in the lake of fire a thousand years later.

Davy said:

Many forget, or are not aware, that per The New Testament, when Lord Jesus returns, during His future "thousand years" reign, everyone will be in the spiritual body. That future time will be a time on earth like the angelic body state (which is the type body Lord Jesus said the resurrection is). The resurrection body is not another one of flesh.

John 5:28-29 reveals on the day of Christ's return, both resurrection types will happen, one for the Just, and another for the unjust. In 1 Corinthians 15 it doesn't seem... like Apostle Paul is pointing to all peoples still alive being changed at the twinkling of an eye, but in Isaiah 25 where he was pulling from about death swallowed up in victory on that day, it does point to all... nations being changed on that day.

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This not the case, because flesh and blood will still be in the kingdom when Christ reign a thousand years. Let't go to Revelation 7: 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

So these people still have a fleshly body not spiritual body. They are the people which came out of the great tribulation.

Only the saints will have the spiritual body, because the saint are coming back with Jesus Christ. Let's go to Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Now we will see this event happen in 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

If you sleep in Jesus it means you have done his will. Lets keep reading and see how Jesus bring the saints with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This verse just told us that some will be alive to be in this first resurrection, the coming of Jesus, and there are those who will be asleep (dead). Notice they asleep and not in heaven chilling and watching over people, smiling at all this hell going on.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Notice: Only the dead in Christ will rise first, but the Lord has descended...meaning coming down

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Notice we those that where asleep or dead rise first, then those which are alive and remain rise next, to meet the Lord in the air, and altogether we the first resurrection.

Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

peace in Jesus mighty name!

Davy said:

Nah... you haven't proven anything.

You're only denying the context of the Old Testament Scripture I posted that link to the time of Christ's future "thousand years" reign. NO ONE is destroyed in the "lake of fire" until the end of Christ's "thousand years" reign. That is WHY the saved will able to look over into the pit of hell at Satan, and ask, "Is this the man that..." per Isaiah 14.



All you're doing with the above is describing the Gentiles, for the first part of Revelation 7, the 144,000, are about those sealed by God of Israelites. In that future time with the saved stand next to Christ's throne, there is NOTHING THERE WRITTEN about still being in a FLESH BODY. That is where you have been wrongly taught to ADD to God's Word, because 1 Corinthians 15 and Isaiah 25 and John 5:28-29 and Matthew 22:30 are Bible witnesses about the 'change' to the "spiritual body" that is to happen on the day of Christ's return. Apostle Paul quoted from Isaiah 25 about the idea of 'death swallowed up in victory', and there in Isaiah 25 it is pointing to ALL NATIONS, not just the saved.

So when Lord Jesus returns, and God's consuming fire burns up man's works off this earth, THEN... all peoples will no longer be in flesh bodies. The world to come is not described to be like this present world. And one has to do a LOT... of skipping in God's Word to not know this. Oh how people love the flesh!

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peace in Jesus mighty name