Good news! this is called "responsible, deliberate, and safe" exit from Afghanistan

HannahT said:

Many here are to young to remember the Iran Hostage crisis. Fifty-two United States diplomats and citizens were held hostage for 444 days. They were to be compensated - promised from the Government. In 2015 (after 34 years of promises) the Congress decided on $10,000 a day for this compensation to surviving members - some had died already. They still are still waiting.

Commitments from the government that were broken isn't uncommon even in extreme circumstances.

I'm really scared for those left in Afghanistan. I'm just being honest.

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I am too. I hope Biden succeeds in getting everyone out.

Clizby WampusCat said:

I am too. I hope Biden succeeds in getting everyone out.

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I'm praying so hard for that.

HannahT said:

I'm praying so hard for that.

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If God wants to help I would be for that too.

Taliban say they won't allow Afghans to leave country, reject evacuation extension - CNN

The Taliban will not let Afghan people go if they want to. So much for getting our allies out without violence or people that don't want to be ruled by ruthless religious nuts. What will Biden's response be? Probably ask them nicely to reconsider.

Clizby WampusCat said:

Taliban say they won't allow Afghans to leave country, reject evacuation extension - CNN

The Taliban will not let Afghan people go if they want to. So much for getting our allies out without violence or people that don't want to be ruled by ruthless religious nuts. What will Biden's response be? Probably ask them nicely to reconsider.

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Can I say my optimistic side hopes CNN is wrong here?

After 20+ years in that country all the media has sources there at this point. PERSONAL sources that they care about now. Sources in dangerous places, and politically important places I hope will make a difference. It's personal now, and NOT political. It's not some far away place in which they can distant themselves from. It's been to many years. Their sources are crying for help from them too - and for their families. Can we pray that makes an impact? Division will only hinder things in their lives. They are important, and I don't care what party they support. I really don't care. It is human life at sake.

Media can use their tools of destruction that they have used to be popular, or as clickbait for good now. Both sides are guilty as sin there - along with their political allies. They need to use them to save lives now. Are they capable when its their skin in the game on a personal level? I hope so. You always have some that don't care, because their personal gain is more important than anything.

I hope pressure from the rest will save those that need saving. I hope there is enough of them to place the pressure where it needs to be applied.

HannahT said:

You have to admit some of this doesn't make any sense.

We must have really BAD intelligence, and people paying no attention at all over there for this type of mess to happen. History has shown us that when something awful like this happens? It's normally politicians making the final decisions (with their career in mind), and not the true reality on the ground in mind. How many conflicts can you think of when that happened? We have had some, and we all know it. I mean WHO is going to sue the USA for breaking an agreement that the last administration had (since that is who they are blaming currently)? lol is the Taliban is going to the NATO or the UN, and expect to be taken seriously?

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The ability of the US government to understand Afghanistan IS and has been really bad. Relying on the Afghan military was the latest in a long line of US miscalculations over nearly 20 years. There were warning signs no doubt -- signs that are downplayed when the top brass / leaders want to believe something else. And it was probably beyond the American imagination to anticipate entire combat brigades and/or regional political leaders making peace with the Taliban instead of fighting (again, ignorance of Afghan history and culture). The US government thought they had several months to get people out...instead they got what? a 2 day notice that Kabul would fall. That is a massive miscalculation....frankly, given all the circumstances and operational risks, the evacuation is going remarkably well.

The NATO operation, that was headed by the United States, ended in 2014. There were six years and three administrations to get these people out if they wanted to.

Clizby WampusCat said:

Now Biden says:

"The completion by August 31 depends on the Taliban continuing to cooperate and allow access to the airport to those who are transporting out and no disruptions to our operation."

Why is anything we want to do dependent on the Taliban?

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The taliban are ALREADY preventing people from getting to the air port, as well as rounding up afghan citizens who cooperated with the us army, probably for a bullet and a shallow grave in the afghan desert.

He doesn't care. He just wants to get out asap so that voters forget this debacle until the midterms roll around.

Clizby WampusCat said:

Yes, because we left.

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You miss the point - your own point. You want the US to make war on the Taliban, right? But the US has only gone on the offense in support of the government. Get it? There is no government. The US is not going to war on the Taliban. US forces will defend themselves, but that is it.

Clizby WampusCat said:

I understand what is going on. We did not draw a bad hand, we created this mess, people cannot get out because of how Biden left. Why wasn't the plan to get people out before we left?

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First came the bad hand - the government forces collapsed. Everything bad has occurred after that - is predicated on that. I would have liked a better exit. Many pol sci PhD candidates will study this in the years ahead, with various conclusions. For sure what happened is tied to the original deal worked out by the Trump people. The "no bombing" had to have been part of that deal. And without that, the collapse of the government forces (at some point) could be expected. But no one expected the government to fold as it did.

Oh, people are getting out.

Clizby WampusCat said:

Can you tell me how? What is the plan? Biden won't tell us. It sounds like the plan is to hope the Taliban lets them into the airport. That is a bad plan.

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People are getting out. Need to keep up with reports and not just write history.

And the latest is that the Taliban IS helping get them into the airport.

cradleGO said:

You miss the point - your own point. You want the US to make war on the Taliban, right? But the US has only gone on the offense in support of the government. Get it? There is no government. The US is not going to war on the Taliban. US forces will defend themselves, but that is it.

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I do not want a war with the Taliban. I want to fight to get our people out. I get it, you just don't seem to want to do what it takes to get people out.

First came the bad hand - the government forces collapsed. Everything bad has occurred after that - is predicated on that. I would have liked a better exit. Many pol sci PhD candidates will study this in the years ahead, with various conclusions. For sure what happened is tied to the original deal worked out by the Trump people. The "no bombing" had to have been part of that deal. And without that, the collapse of the government forces (at some point) could be expected. But no one expected the government to fold as it did.

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This is not true. There were predictions of a collapse prior to the summer.

Intelligence Agencies Warned President Biden Of Afghan Collapse | National Review

Oh, people are getting out.

People are getting out. Need to keep up with reports and not just write history.

And the latest is that the Taliban IS helping get them into the airport.

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Nope. They are not letting any afghan's leave. There are currently over 200 women Afghan judges that are trying to get out. The Taliban will not let them out. They will be killed soon if not raped and killed, two have already been shot. There are many private organizations helping people get out since Biden will not get them out. There have been 4400 American nationals that have left and the administration does not know how many are there in Afghanistan. Do you honestly believe all American's and SIV holders will get out prior to 8/31? The pentagon has said that starting Saturday they will prioritize the military leaving over civilians.

Cannot you see that it would have been easier to get people out before we initially left?

If you cannot see that this has been a failure, then in my opinion, you have sold your ethics and morals for a political party.

Nithavela said:

The taliban are ALREADY preventing people from getting to the air port, as well as rounding up afghan citizens who cooperated with the us army, probably for a bullet and a shallow grave in the afghan desert.

He doesn't care. He just wants to get out asap so that voters forget this debacle until the midterms roll around.

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He has never cared, even in Vietnam. He wants out no matter the cost. He is an imbecile.

Clizby WampusCat said:

I do not want a war with the Taliban. I want to fight to get our people out. I get it, you just don't seem to want to do what it takes to get people out.

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And you don't seem to appreciate that the Taliban are in fact, in charge of Kabul. The US is simply not in a position to dictate or tell the Taliban what to do. And there isn't political support for sending in the required force level to challenge Taliban control. That's the reality.

wing2000 said:

And you don't seem to appreciate that the Taliban are in fact, in charge of Kabul. The US is simply not in a position to dictate or tell the Taliban what to do. And there isn't political support for sending in the required force level to challenge Taliban control. That's the reality.

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They are in charge because we left to early. It would have been easier to get people out before we initially left. Biden does not need political support to send the military in to get people out. He has the authority to do it. Other countries have sent their special forces in why won't we? If we are let me know.

Clizby WampusCat said:

They are in charge because we left to early. It would have been easier to get people out before we initially left. Biden does not need political support to send the military in to get people out. He has the authority to do it. Other countries have sent their special forces in why won't we? If we are let me know.

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How do you know the US has not? There have been at least two operations to date...

wing2000 said:

How do you know the US has not? There have been at least two operations to date...

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Great. I applaud this. If the Taliban is letting our people to the airport why is this needed?

Clizby WampusCat said:

Great. I applaud this. If the Taliban is letting our people to the airport why is this needed?

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I don't know. Maybe you can ask the US military commander who made the call to go....

wing2000 said:

I don't know. Maybe you can ask the US military commander who made the call to go....

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I hope they all get out. At this point it does not look good.

Clizby WampusCat said:

I do not want a war with the Taliban. I want to fight to get our people out. I get it, you just don't seem to want to do what it takes to get people out.

This is not true. There were predictions of a collapse prior to the summer.

Intelligence Agencies Warned President Biden Of Afghan Collapse | National Review


Nope. They are not letting any afghan's leave. There are currently over 200 women Afghan judges that are trying to get out. The Taliban will not let them out. They will be killed soon if not raped and killed, two have already been shot. There are many private organizations helping people get out since Biden will not get them out. There have been 4400 American nationals that have left and the administration does not know how many are there in Afghanistan. Do you honestly believe all American's and SIV holders will get out prior to 8/31? The pentagon has said that starting Saturday they will prioritize the military leaving over civilians.

Cannot you see that it would have been easier to get people out before we initially left?

If you cannot see that this has been a failure, then in my opinion, you have sold your ethics and morals for a political party.

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Sounds like you can imagine a realistic scenario whereby the evacuation of the "valid" Afghanis would have been complete and orderly. I cannot. It would have been a mess in the best realistic scenario I can imagine.

You seem to think that any category of person, say, female judges, that are threatened by the Taliban, fits the standard of "valid for evacuation". I do not. Islam is horrible, and it is especially horrible for females. By your implied definition, we are obligated to evacuate all the women who have an education beyond the, what?, 8th grade? I feel compassion for those in threatened categories not meeting the US standard, but that's life. If they can get out, fine, let's help them, but they do not count as a failure of the evacuation.

Latest reports are that there are 1500 US citizens that haven't been evacuated as of roughly noon today, Wednesday Aug 25 Eastern time. Of those, 500 have been reached and instructions given to evacuate. The State Dept. is trying to reach/account for the other 1000. They may have already left, or they may be posers. As I said, you need to keep up.

cradleGO said:

Sounds like you can imagine a realistic scenario whereby the evacuation of the "valid" Afghanis would have been complete and orderly. I cannot. It would have been a mess in the best realistic scenario I can imagine.

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Your false dichotomy of order or mess is ridiculous. All they had to do was to inform people 6 months in advance that we are going to leave on this date. Then let them leave or help them if they need it. Instead they left abruptly the went back after they realized Americans cant get out and now they are screwed. The idea that this was inevitable is ridiculous.

You seem to think that any category of person, say, female judges, that are threatened by the Taliban, fits the standard of "valid for evacuation". I do not. Islam is horrible, and it is especially horrible for females. By your implied definition, we are obligated to evacuate all the women who have an education beyond the, what?, 8th grade? I feel compassion for those in threatened categories not meeting the US standard, but that's life. If they can get out, fine, let's help them, but they do not count as a failure of the evacuation.

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These judges helped us by bravely sentencing Taliban members to jail knowing they would be a target. The Taliban has already released the prisoners. You can say oh well that's life but I would like to get them out. A Private organization is trying with no help from Biden. You care more about how your party looks than you care about these people. Oh well that's life, just don't count them against Biden.

Latest reports are that there are 1500 US citizens that haven't been evacuated as of roughly noon today, Wednesday Aug 25 Eastern time. Of those, 500 have been reached and instructions given to evacuate. The State Dept. is trying to reach/account for the other 1000. They may have already left, or they may be posers. As I said, you need to keep up.

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When they get out I will be happy. The military is telling people they need to leave now. They know after 8/31 they cannot get them out no matter what they are telling you. Probably 8/27 is too late.

Americans at Kabul airport gates urged by US Embassy in Afghanistan to 'leave immediately'

Wow, now we are telling them to not come to the airport and wait for instructions. They are afraid of terrorist activity. It is time to go out with a force to secure the airport surroundings.