Good news! this is called "responsible, deliberate, and safe" exit from Afghanistan

Clizby WampusCat said:

How is relying on the Taliban to get people out a good strategy? What the US needs to do is get a force together and tell the Taliban that we are going in to get any American or ally out that wants to leave. If they resist we will kill them. If these people don't get out the Taliban will kill them. The Taliban has said if we are there past 8/31 there will be consequences. Why are we letting the Taliban drive this situation?

Click to expand...

Relying the Afghan army for security was the basis of the agreement made by the prior administration to get US troops out. By January of this year, US troop levels - in country - were at 2,500. Neither Trump nor Biden were willing to "ramp up" the forces needed to remove the dependency on the Afghan army.

The US Government never anticipated Afghan defense forces would essentially surrender and Kabul would be taken in less than a week. Hence, the fact is we are dependent on the Taliban for security outside the airport perimeter. We do not have the force level in place to even think about telling them what we are going to do. 6k troops were needed to provide airport security. How many would be needed to do what you are suggesting? 25k 50k ?

And are the American people willing to see more body bags come home from Afghanistan once the Taliban starts shooting?

To date there have been no American casualties - thanks in large part to the current agreement the US has with the Taliban. To violate that agreement will come with consequences....

BobRyan said:

That would be the competent way to do it, showing leadership and resolve. So I really can't complain at all about your post.

Just think of how "planning ahead" would have been such a great help in this situation. Think of how smart it would have been to pull out in Jan/Feb - in the winter when the Taliban were still all huddled together down in Pakistan, before the spring/summer offensive that comes every year?

Think of how a rudimentary appreciation for facts on the ground would easily predicted that a total collapse would ensue if this ill advised stunt were attempted in the middle of an all out attack from the Taliban. Think of how "obvious" it would be to the army in Afghanistan if stopping air support in the face of a full scale attack by the Taliban were shown to produce instant failure on the ground for all the army to see. Then having that "proof" for a few weeks of their certain doom - leaving it up to them not to lose heart.

Click to expand...

This is why we need to go back and get these people.

American mom makes urgent plea to Biden from Afghanistan: 'We are stranded, please help us'

"Our lives are in extreme danger and I don’t know how long it’s going to continue. They are going to people’s homes at night and they are just taking them away."

wing2000 said:

Relying the Afghan army for security was the basis of the agreement made by the prior administration to get US troops out. By January of this year, US troop levels - in country - were at 2,500. Neither Trump nor Biden were willing to "ramp up" the forces needed to remove the dependency on the Afghan army.

The US Government never anticipated Afghan defense forces would essentially surrender and Kabul would be taken in less than a week. Hence, the fact is we are dependent on the Taliban for security outside the airport perimeter. We do not have the force level in place to even think about telling them what we are going to do. 6k troops were needed to provide airport security. How many would be needed to do what you are suggesting? 25k 50k ?

And are the American people willing to see more body bags come home from Afghanistan once the Taliban starts shooting?

To date there have been no American casualties - thanks in large part to the current agreement the US has with the Taliban. To violate that agreement will come with consequences....

Click to expand...

I don't care what Trump would have done. I care what this idiot president has done. There will be body bags of Americans after 8/31. They are already rounding people up across the country. Our military is trained for this kind of thing. They are volunteers that are willing to risk their lives for others. To sit back and leave Americans and ally's there that will be killed is unconscionable. Or do you trust what the Taliban says?

Clizby WampusCat said:

How is relying on the Taliban to get people out a good strategy? What the US needs to do is get a force together and tell the Taliban that we are going in to get any American or ally out that wants to leave. If they resist we will kill them. If these people don't get out the Taliban will kill them. The Taliban has said if we are there past 8/31 there will be consequences. Why are we letting the Taliban drive this situation?

Click to expand...

Probably part of some secret agreement they'll be making documentaries about in 30 years.

Clizby WampusCat said:

I don't care what Trump would have done. I care what this idiot president has done. There will be body bags of Americans after 8/31. They are already rounding people up across the country. Our military is trained for this kind of thing. They are volunteers that are willing to risk their lives for others. To sit back and leave Americans and ally's there that will be killed is unconscionable. Or do you trust what the Taliban says?

Click to expand...

My point is, we need to support the mission. We can't do what you are suggesting with the current force level in country.

wing2000 said:

My point is, we need to support the mission. We can't do what you are suggesting with the current force level in country.

Click to expand...

That should be done, yes. Increase force levels. Also, support the northern rebels against the taliban.

Nithavela said:

That should be done, yes. Increase force levels. Also, support the northern rebels against the taliban.

Click to expand...

So much for withdrawal…

wing2000 said:

My point is, we need to support the mission. We can't do what you are suggesting with the current force level in country.

Click to expand...

I agree. Lets bring more.

Nithavela said:

That should be done, yes. Increase force levels. Also, support the northern rebels against the taliban.

Click to expand...

I don't agree with supporting anything else. I want to get the Americans and our allies out, then leave.

Clizby WampusCat said:

I don't agree with supporting anything else. I want to get the Americans and our allies out, then leave.

Click to expand...

Well, differences in opinion.

Desk trauma said:

So much for withdrawal…

Click to expand...

Never was a fan of withdrawal in the first place. There are still lots of US bases in Germany.

Then again, we don't try to kill your troops.

wing2000 said:

...or in 2002...per a former Bush administration official who now has regrets:

STEVE INSKEEP: When was the first opportunity for the United States to get out of Afghanistan?

RICHARD ARMITAGE: I think the first real opportunity was in 2002, in the winter when we were fighting in Tora Bora, trying to chase down Osama bin Laden.

INSKEEP: So after Tora Bora, you could have said we're chasing bin Laden; he doesn't seem to be there anymore. We're leaving Afghanistan. The United States didn't do that.

ARMITAGE: We could have done that. President Bush had said publicly we're not going to nation-build. But after we turned to Iraq, we turned our attention away from Afghanistan. And in my view, it was on automatic pilot for quite a while.

INSKEEP: You were in the State Department. You were in the U.S. government in this period when you felt it was on automatic pilot. Did you sometimes turn your attention to Afghanistan and say, why are we still there? It's 2005.

ARMITAGE: Yeah. And I'm - this is something that I had bear on my conscience. I think I'm one of those who are responsible during the Bush administration for not having turned around and gotten us out of there. After all, I did visit Afghanistan on several different occasions. But from my point of view, my inbox was filling up, and it was filling up primarily with Iraq.

Richard Armitage Says Starting In 2002, The U.S. Could Have Left Afghanistan

Click to expand...

My retort is that bin-Laden could have slipped back over the border into Afghanistan had we left. Now, the US didn't know where he was, but Afghanistan was a more wild and wooly place at that time - making him hard to find and escape as was demonstrated when he slipped away from the mountains - so making it uncomfortable to be in country was a smart move. Based on how he was living in Abbottabad, living in Afghanistan would not be an inconvenience. He was a fanatic - likely had major daddy issues - so personal comfort was not high on his list. So, I'll stick with 2011.

I'll add that I think the assault on his compound in Abbottabad was launched from Afghanistan, in whole or major part, so I think it was good that we stayed.

Now Biden says:

"The completion by August 31 depends on the Taliban continuing to cooperate and allow access to the airport to those who are transporting out and no disruptions to our operation."

Why is anything we want to do dependent on the Taliban?

Clizby WampusCat said:

Now Biden says:

"The completion by August 31 depends on the Taliban continuing to cooperate and allow access to the airport to those who are transporting out and no disruptions to our operation."

Why is anything we want to do dependent on the Taliban?

Click to expand...

I've read your posts here. You seem to not realize that the US involvement for the past several years (15 or more) has been to assist the Afghan government to secure their country. As of a few days ago, there is no longer an Afghan government we can assist.

"Job one" for the US is to exit as cleanly and quickly as possible. It hasn't been clean nor quick, but there haven't been any US deaths yet, either. We've drawn a bad hand and its best to fold and leave the table. Quietly. We will get the US folk out.

Clizby WampusCat said:

Why is anything we want to do dependent on the Taliban?

Click to expand...

Probably because we just control a tiny part of the country not much bigger than an airport and the Taliban controls the rest.

cradleGO said:

I've read your posts here. You seem to not realize that the US involvement for the past several years (15 or more) has been to assist the Afghan government to secure their country. As of a few days ago, there is no longer an Afghan government we can assist.

Click to expand...

Yes, because we left.

"Job one" for the US is to exit as cleanly and quickly as possible. It hasn't been clean nor quick, but there haven't been any US deaths yet, either. We've drawn a bad hand and its best to fold and leave the table. Quietly.

Click to expand...

I understand what is going on. We did not draw a bad hand, we created this mess, people cannot get out because of how Biden left. Why wasn't the plan to get people out before we left?

We will get the US folk out.

Click to expand...

Can you tell me how? What is the plan? Biden won't tell us. It sounds like the plan is to hope the Taliban lets them into the airport. That is a bad plan.

Aryeh Jay said:

Probably because we just control a tiny part of the country not much bigger than an airport and the Taliban controls the rest.

Click to expand...

I have no response.

wing2000 said:

Relying the Afghan army for security was the basis of the agreement made by the prior administration to get US troops out. By January of this year, US troop levels - in country - were at 2,500. Neither Trump nor Biden were willing to "ramp up" the forces needed to remove the dependency on the Afghan army.

The US Government never anticipated Afghan defense forces would essentially surrender and Kabul would be taken in less than a week. Hence, the fact is we are dependent on the Taliban for security outside the airport perimeter. We do not have the force level in place to even think about telling them what we are going to do. 6k troops were needed to provide airport security. How many would be needed to do what you are suggesting? 25k 50k ?

And are the American people willing to see more body bags come home from Afghanistan once the Taliban starts shooting?

To date there have been no American casualties - thanks in large part to the current agreement the US has with the Taliban. To violate that agreement will come with consequences....

Click to expand...

You have to admit some of this doesn't make any sense.

We must have really BAD intelligence, and people paying no attention at all over there for this type of mess to happen. History has shown us that when something awful like this happens? It's normally politicians making the final decisions (with their career in mind), and not the true reality on the ground in mind. How many conflicts can you think of when that happened? We have had some, and we all know it. I mean WHO is going to sue the USA for breaking an agreement that the last administration had (since that is who they are blaming currently)? lol is the Taliban is going to the NATO or the UN, and expect to be taken seriously?

We removed the air support that the Afghan army relied on, and was trained to use. We removed the people that service the planes, etc. So, you might have had some pilots but not much on the ground to service planes, etc. Did they plan on how that would work out? They claim they planned for everything just about, but you have a huge source of support that was removed...and they couldn't predict anything awful might happen? I don't buy that.

We HAD a decent airport (air base) there, but we gave it up. Along with our Embassy and other locations. Notice they were the only ones just about that had notice to flee. Nothing ugly about how that looks right? Remember with anything BIG like this happens? Politics always want their pomp and circumstance in front of the cameras. We all know that, and no party is dodges that aspect of their career. They didn't even have to do that in the country (afghan country), because steps of the Capital Hill or other locations are just fine. "WE ended the 20 year war finally - snap snap goes the cameras, and media looks for the award winning soundbite. I think the politicians were caught off guard too. lol they didn't even have their scripts ready if it was to be secret so they could look prepared for the next day!

They are asking us to buy that they knew we would sent troops to a one runway airport that is nothing compared to what we held for years and years...because we relied on Afghan army to get our citizens to the Kabul airport along with everyone else that needs to be rescued at this point? lol after we removed their air support that they were trained to use? Nothing about that sounds WRONG? These are politicians here. They always dodge blame, and divert, lie and everything else when they screw something up. Both sides do this. This isn't partisian. It's life or death for to many.

We don't know if we have any American Causalities, because we have no way of knowing. You think the Taliban is going to ring the USA up and inform them...lol then the Feds are going to send out press release at this point? NO WAY! I hope you are right, but somehow I doubt it. Congress on both sides are upset, and you can only bet why! They are getting phone calls from their districts from people that have family, friends, etc. that are STUCK there due to fear for their their lives. I can only imagine their human side feeling awful, but also their political side could take some damage if their local newspapers freak out. That has to be one of heck of personal/professional struggle there.

WHY people were not given decent notice? I mean no political yapping, but on the ground - this is going to happen - plan now - type of thing. Here is your deadline. Remember we are relying on the Afghan Army after that point, and you might see how much traveling happens at that point to get out. The Army was going to fold in time, and even our country admits that - something the 'notice' should have included as well. Unless the USA had a crystal ball? They owed these people that much. Keeping people in the dark wasn't part of the agreement. No military or politician in their right mind would agree to that.

Remember other countries sent forces in to rescue their citizens. Yet, we tell ours to deal with Taliban checkpoints and trust the terrorists will let them pass. Something major happened, and they will never admit it. Government never does.

Many here are to young to remember the Iran Hostage crisis. Fifty-two United States diplomats and citizens were held hostage for 444 days. They were to be compensated - promised from the Government. In 2015 (after 34 years of promises) the Congress decided on $10,000 a day for this compensation to surviving members - some had died already. They still are still waiting.

Commitments from the government that were broken isn't uncommon even in extreme circumstances.

I'm really scared for those left in Afghanistan. I'm just being honest.

I still remember my little brother in HS when this happened, and he was a DEM (since that counts today) having a world map on his wall in room in my parents home. A flag for every hostage in his window of the bedroom. I remember coming home, and I was shocked that he had torn out Iran on that map that he had saved for to buy. It was completely blacken out - as if he had a sharpie. lol I don' t think those were around at that time. He is still Democrat today, but I don't think he trusts the government as much (or the party system) as he did then. The commitment failed to those hostages still trigger him.

I have to wonder what will happen now. I so hope I'm wrong. That would be so awesome! I have to tell you. Please don't leave people behind.