Is the time of Revelation near?

Jeffwhosoever · Aug 24, 2021

You guys with the coronal mass ejection might be onto something. I'm an amateur radio operator and we track sunspot activity because it has a profound effect on radio propagation, as we bounce our HF signals off the ionosphere to reach remote locations. For instance, in 2001 I was reaching Australia with a 100 watt transmitter and a mere inverted V antenna cut for 15 meters in my attic, not a very ideal antenna by any stretch. But I have been watching and so far the sunspots are running well above the model forecast. Hmmmm.

The Silicon Graybeard: Solar Cycle 25 Off to a Strong Start

keras · Aug 24, 2021

Jeffwhosoever said:
You guys with the coronal mass ejection might be onto something. I'm an amateur radio operator and we track sunspot activity because it has a profound effect on radio propagation, as we bounce our HF signals off the ionosphere to reach remote locations. For instance, in 2001 I was reaching Australia with a 100 watt transmitter and a mere inverted V antenna cut for 15 meters in my attic, not a very ideal antenna by any stretch. But I have been watching and so far the sunspots are running well above the model forecast. Hmmmm.

The Silicon Graybeard: Solar Cycle 25 Off to a Strong Start

I have put out the warning of a massive CME in our near future, but as far as I know, I am the only one who believes it.
Yes; the sun is going into solar cycle 25 and its already sent out a few big and many small CME's. None directly aimed at planet earth, as yet.

The Coronal Mass Ejection that the Lord will instigate on His Appointed Day of vengeance and wrath, will be of unprecedented magnitude and will literally fulfil all the graphic Prophesies about that terrible Day.

Jeffwhosoever · Aug 24, 2021

You sound like a physicist, engineer or scientist. I am a former Electronics Engineer myself. What is your background if you don't mind saying Brother keras?

keras · Aug 24, 2021

Jeffwhosoever said:
You sound like a physicist, engineer or scientist. I am a former Electronics Engineer myself. What is your background if you don't mind saying Brother keras?

I am a retired construction foreman/supervisor.

When I realized what the Prophets described will happen on the Lord's Day of wrath; would be a Coronal Mass Ejection, I read all I could find about the sun and its various effects.
In the over 100 prophesies about that terrible Day, the only natural event that can literally cause them all, is a massive CME.
It will strike unexpectedly, like a thief; it will set the scene for all that must happen before Jesus Returns. It will be a natural event, so those who want to, can still refuse to believe in the Lord.
More info on my website.

eclipsenow · Aug 24, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
My own reading is perhaps best described as Idealist with Historicist and Preterist influences. That is, I think the chief meaning involved things happening in John's own time, for example "the Beast" is a reference to Nero by name (Nero's name having the numerical value of 666), but also encompasses the imperial power of the Roman Empire more generally (as Nero was already dead when the Revelation was written). In an even larger sense, it can be said to be broad enough to speak about all worldly power that is oppressive. There are, in a sense, many beasts: history is full of many tyrants who have ruled by the use of oppression.

You are Partial Preterist.
Welcome!

The chief theme of the Revelation, I believe, is that in spite of the present suffering under the powers of this world, the Christian hope is that Christ having died and risen again has already defeated those very powers. And so, in spite of the raging of the nations we behold now (and in every age), we look forward to the Day when Christ returns and God puts all the pieces together, healing and mending the world.
-CrptoLutheran

What he said!

eclipsenow · Aug 24, 2021

keras said:
In the over 100 prophesies about that terrible Day, the only natural event that can literally cause them all, is a massive CME.

Why are you reading OT prophecy literally again? :doh:

Everything those prophets said is TRUE - just as true as Jesus saying "Unless a man is born again he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Just as true as Jesus in Luke 14:26 saying...
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." Hyperbole. Look it up - the OT prophets used it to describe terrible wars.

They also used symbols like fire for war. (Wars involve torching places, after all.)
Many symbols of brightness for blessing.
Many symbols of locusts for plague, clouds for judgement, uncreation for savage city-ending war, etc.
Symbols. They're a thing.

Brian Mcnamee · Aug 24, 2021

ViaCrucis said:
I agree with others that this isn't the appropriate place for this discussion, it belongs in one of the Theology forums. That said, I think given your sincere worry that it is worth addressing.

This is one of the problems with "newspaper eschatology", people try and attach contemporary events with supposed prophecy of "the end times". And it's something that people have been doing--wrongly--throughout history.

St. Augustine of Hippo actually wrote one of his most famous works, The City of God, to address the fears of many of his fellow Christians when Rome was sacked. Many feared that the sacking and fall of Rome, and the political collapse of the Roman Empire in the West, might mean the literal end of the world. Augustine pointedly explains that "The City of Man", i.e. our own temporal nations, governments, societies, etc are not the same thing as God's City. God's kingdom and the kingdoms of this world can never be confused, they are entirely different things. The kingdoms of this world come and go, but God's kingdom is eternal.

Here is the thing however, in the Olivet Discourse Jesus talks about natural disasters, wars, rumors of wars, nations fighting against nations, etc--but these are not signs of the end He says, these are only "birth pangs". That term "birth pang" is important, it points to the fact that the sufferings of the present world actually point toward the eventual birth of the new world. God is going to bring out of this old world, a new one, God is going to put together all the broken pieces of the world, and heal all of creation. That is the message of the Gospel, that Christ suffered and died, and rose again. And even as Christ has risen from the dead, so too do we hope in the future resurrection of the dead, and not just we ourselves, but all of creation shall be renewed and healed--restored and transformed. One day the "City of God" will dwell on the earth forever.

And as it pertains to the Revelation, it is worth pointing out that there are many ways of reading the Revelation. That's one of the reasons it is such a difficult book to make sense of; in fact it was so controversial in the early centuries of Christianity that it was the last book of the New Testament to be fully accepted.

In brief there are four generally recognized broad models of interpreting the Revelation of St. John:

1) The Futurist view reads the text of the Revelation as chiefly being interested in what will take place sometime in the future, generally at "the end of the world".

2) The Historicist view reads the text of the Revelation as chiefly being interested in what takes place between the time St. John wrote the text on Patmos, until the end--taking place over the course of history.

3) The Preterist view reads the text of the Revelation as chiefly being interested in what was happening in John's own time.

4) The Idealist view reads the text of the Revelation as chiefly being interested in broad themes that may be applicable in any time.

My own reading is perhaps best described as Idealist with Historicist and Preterist influences. That is, I think the chief meaning involved things happening in John's own time, for example "the Beast" is a reference to Nero by name (Nero's name having the numerical value of 666), but also encompasses the imperial power of the Roman Empire more generally (as Nero was already dead when the Revelation was written). In an even larger sense, it can be said to be broad enough to speak about all worldly power that is oppressive. There are, in a sense, many beasts: history is full of many tyrants who have ruled by the use of oppression.

The chief theme of the Revelation, I believe, is that in spite of the present suffering under the powers of this world, the Christian hope is that Christ having died and risen again has already defeated those very powers. And so, in spite of the raging of the nations we behold now (and in every age), we look forward to the Day when Christ returns and God puts all the pieces together, healing and mending the world.

-CrptoLutheran

Hi as a futurist I see that by taking all the verses that talk about the transition into the the kingdom age have mentioned many specifics and as scriptures points out that out of the mouth of two witnesses it shall be established. Now your arguments about the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God are true but they are not contradictory to the futurist view also coming to pass.

When the Bible in Ezekiel 47 promises the dead sea will be healed and a prosperous fishing area the literal interpretation is pretty simple that one day will happen. In this text the tribes of Israel also receive their inheritance by lot. Now if there is a millennium there would be life described as continuing throughout. And Zech 14 shows that when the kingdom comes it is a day when Jerusalem is being over run and the LORD comes and destroys the armies and in that day the LORD is now king over all the earth and in that day the MT of Olives splits in two forming new valleys and a new river that has two branches one of them east which would take it right into the dead sea and imagine that it would be healed. Now the text also notes that the nations which are left from that time on must come to Jerusalem and keep the feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain. Even Egypt is singled out for this.
So again the river flows year round and the nations which are left shows life continuing after the LORD has come and is now king.

You are right futurist do look at current events with an eye on the scriptures because these things have not happened. The specifics that are noted are Israel becoming a nation again and the return of the temple sacrifices. Now for almost 2000 years no Israel and now Israel is here and so too are all the preparations for the return of the sacrifice. This is not a return to the law or the old covenant but the stage for the man of sin to be revealed in and the abomination of desolation to occur in. AS Hosea 3 notes 4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

Take a look at Luke 1 and the mission of Jesus 2nd advent is described and it fits the before and after literal view to a T.

Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.

The literal view accepts the new covenant as in force and sees here the Jesus will keep the promises, covenants, oaths and prophecy to deliver Israel from their enemies and form that time on they shall worship and serve the LORD with out fear and now in holiness all the days of the their lives.
See Zech 14, that is the same as Rev when the angels proclaim the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of the LORD and His Christ and He shall rule forever. This is after Armageddon and life continues. This is just a small sample of the hundreds of verses that taken literally present a clear before and after picture and a timeline of events.

keras · Aug 24, 2021

eclipsenow said:
Why are you reading OT prophecy literally again?

Because they refer to events which can be literally fulfilled, but haven't happened anywhere in the historical record, so we know they will happen in the future.

eclipsenow said:
Symbols. They're a thing.

Symbolizing the basic intent of the Prophetic Word, is a serous mistake.
Your approach to what the Bible prophets have told us, is one of rejection and glossing them over.
We have been warned. Is it sensible to ignore warnings?

The fact that we can't do much about what we are told God plans to do, is beside the point, because believing what the Bible says is our Christian duty, rejecting or misapplying large sections of it is nothing short of sinfulness.

eclipsenow · Aug 24, 2021

Brian Mcnamee said:
Hi as a futurist I see that by taking all the verses that talk about the transition into the the kingdom age have mentioned many specifics and as scriptures points out that out of the mouth of two witnesses it shall be established. Now your arguments about the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God are true but they are not contradictory to the futurist view also coming to pass.

Read Hebrews a few times.
It spiritualises everything - Jesus role as prophet, priest and King, the sacrifice, the temple, everything.

When the Bible in Ezekiel 47 promises the dead sea will be healed and a prosperous fishing area the literal interpretation is pretty simple that one day will happen. In this text the tribes of Israel also receive their inheritance by lot. Now if there is a millennium there would be life described as continuing throughout. And Zech 14 shows that when the kingdom comes it is a day when Jerusalem is being over run and the LORD comes and destroys the armies and in that day the LORD is now king over all the earth and in that day the MT of Olives splits in two forming new valleys and a new river that has two branches one of them east which would take it right into the dead sea and imagine that it would be healed. Now the text also notes that the nations which are left from that time on must come to Jerusalem and keep the feast of Tabernacles or they get no rain. Even Egypt is singled out for this.
So again the river flows year round and the nations which are left shows life continuing after the LORD has come and is now king.

Tricky. Most of the OT prophets are about events considered in their generation.
But the few times the Day of the Lord does glimpse forward to a more eschatological theme, it's more theological in nature. EG: Ezekiel's future temple is described in all its glory, but it is the idea of such a perfect temple many see Jesus fulfilling this as THE perfect temple - torn down and raised again in 3 days. Now of course WE CHRISTIANS are the temple. Check this out for Ezekiel. There are so many futurists in America (because of the Scofield bible) that they give a nod to it, but also mention the more Amil view.

You are right futurist do look at current events with an eye on the scriptures because these things have not happened. The specifics that are noted are Israel becoming a nation again and the return of the temple sacrifices. Now for almost 2000 years no Israel and now Israel is here and so too are all the preparations for the return of the sacrifice. This is not a return to the law or the old covenant but the stage for the man of sin to be revealed in and the abomination of desolation to occur in. AS Hosea 3 notes 4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days.

But the people of God happened. As Gospel Coalition says:-

DEFINITION
The kingdom of God is the rule of God over his people in his creation, established through his Messiah in the new covenant, which is now present in the world, though it is awaiting its fulfillment at the second coming of Christ.

SUMMARY
The kingdom of God is central to the biblical story of redemption. The story follows the narrative of the fall of Adam and Eve, the calling of the nation of Israel, and the coming of the promised Messiah. When Jesus came as the Messiah, he established God’s kingdom in the new covenant through his death and resurrection, and now reigns from heaven. One day he will return to consummate the blessings of the kingdom, at which time he will set up the new Eden of God’s kingdom in the new heavens and new earth. In the meantime, we live in the already and not yet of the kingdom, serving our King and looking for his return.
“The kingdom is the King’s power over the King’s people in the King’s place” (see Patrick Schreiner, The Kingdom of God and the Glory of the Cross, 18). The kingdom of God has its roots in the Old Testament and is launched in Christ’s public ministry, as he teaches, performs miracles, and casts out demons (Matt. 13:1–50; 12:28). The life, death, and resurrection of Christ accomplishes the kingdom promises of a new covenant. When Jesus ascends to God’s right hand, the place of greatest power, the kingdom expands (Eph. 1:20–21), and thousands enter the kingdom through the apostles’s preaching (Acts 2:41, 47). The fullness of the kingdom awaits Christ’s return, when he will sit on his glorious throne (Matt. 25:31). Jesus will judge the world, inviting believers into the final stage of the kingdom while banishing unbelievers to hell (25:34, 41).

Kingdom of God, Past
The kingdom of God speaks of God’s universal rule (Ps. 103:17–22; Dan. 4:34–35; 7:13–14), but it is also his particular rule over his people. Even though the expression “kingdom of God” does not appear in the Old Testament, the concept does, with God reigning over his people Israel in a unique sense (Exod. 19:6). God creates humankind for his glory, making promises of a deliverer to Adam and Eve, a nation to come from Abraham that will bless the world, and an eternal kingdom to David and his descendants, which include the Messiah.

God creates for his glory and his people’s good. He creates human beings in his image to love and serve him and to rule his creation (Gen. 1:26–31). In the fall, Adam and Eve rebel against God’s goals, bringing in the rule of sin and death (Gen. 3). In mercy, God promises a deliverer (Gen. 3:15) and later enters into a formal relationship (a covenant) with Abraham, promising him a land and a people, through whom God will bless all families of the earth (Gen. 12:1–3). At Sinai, God gives the Ten Commandments and establishes the descendants of Abraham, the people of Israel, as the people of God.
God expands his promises to Abraham in a covenant with David, to whom God promises a dynasty and an eternal kingdom (2 Sam. 7:12–16). Isaiah foretells the coming of one who will be both God and man and will reign on David’s throne forever (Isa. 9:6–7). Finally, God promises a new covenant characterized by obedience to his word, widespread knowledge of God, forgiveness, and newness of life (Jer. 31:31–34). The Old Testament ends at the book of Malachi with God’s people continuing to turn away from him, but also with a promise of one who will come to prepare the way for the Messiah (Mal. 3:1).

So, although the kingdom of God appears in the Old Testament, both in God’s universal rule as well as in his particular rule over Israel, it comes with newness and power in the New Testament. Jesus, the Messiah, inaugurates the kingdom in his coming, expands it in his exaltation, and will consummate it at his return.

The Kingdom of God, Present
In the New Testament, the promised Messiah comes as “Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham” (Matt. 1:1). Through his incarnation, sinless life, crucifixion, and resurrection, Jesus fulfills the messianic promises, accomplishes the messianic mission, and brings redemption to a lost world.
Jesus is the King whose words and deeds bring the spiritual kingdom of God. He proclaims the coming of the kingdom (Matt. 4:17; Mark 1:15; Luke 4:43), preaches the parables of the kingdom (Matt. 13:1–50), and declares the ethics and nature of the kingdom (Matt. 5–7). His deeds, especially his casting out demons by the Spirit, usher in the kingdom: “If I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you” (Matt. 12:28; cf. Luke 11:20). Christ’s mission always leads “up to Jerusalem” and his death and resurrection, where he brings salvation through his sacrifice.

In his ascension, Jesus moves from the limited earthly sphere to the transcendent heavenly one. He sits at God’s right hand “in the heavens—far above every ruler and authority, power and dominion” (Eph. 1:20–21) now and forever. When Jesus pours out the Spirit on the church at Pentecost, God’s kingdom expands mightily as thousands come to Christ (Acts 2:41, 47; 4:4). Peter explains: “God exalted this man to his right hand as ruler and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins” (Acts 5:31). God rescues sinners “from the domain of darkness” and transfers them “into the kingdom of the Son he loves” (Col. 1:13–14).
The “kingdom,” as God’s reign over his people, will finally and ultimately “come at the end of the age in a mighty irruption into history inaugurating the perfect order of the age to come.” And yet this kingdom “has already come into history in the person and mission of Jesus,” and thus the “presence of the future” is already evident (see George Eldon Ladd, The Presence of the Future, 144–49). So, God’s reign is present and future, already and not yet, his active invasion of history now and his final establishment of the age to come. It is a sovereign rule, a dynamic power, and a divine activity. As the bearer of this kingdom, Jesus requires repentance to enter his kingdom community, since the present way of the world must be rejected and the new age of God’s rule and its corresponding way of life embraced. As such, repentance is not only the way into the kingdom but also the way of the kingdom.

The New Testament also proclaims that Jesus will return to reign as king, bringing justice, peace, delight, and victory. We live, then, in the tension between the “already” and the “not yet.” The kingdom was established with Israel, inaugurated with Christ in his coming, and achieved in the events of Christ’s death and resurrection. Even though the kingdom effects have begun, their full results await Christ’s return.

The Kingdom of God, Future
Although Jesus in his earthly ministry brings the kingdom, which expands exponentially at Pentecost, the fullness of the kingdom awaits until “the Son of Man comes in his glory” and sits “on his glorious throne” (Matt. 25:31). Then the angels will proclaim, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever” (Rev. 11:15). Jesus will judge the world, inviting believers to “inherit the kingdom” while consigning the lost to eternal punishment (Matt. 25:31–46). At “the end,” Jesus will hand “over the kingdom to God the Father” (1 Cor. 15:24).
Thus the new heavens and new earth will be the final stage of the kingdom of God. The kingdom of God will be at peace only in the end. Though Jesus’s victory has been won, the battle rages until his second coming (1 Pet. 5:8). God’s people conquer through Christ, who loves them and has given himself for them (Gal. 2:20). “The Lion from the tribe of Judah” who “has conquered” is the slain Lamb (Rev. 5:5–6). When the final installment of the kingdom arrives, the struggles of the present life will be past. By God’s grace, believers will reign with Christ. Human life will flourish, and human culture will thrive in the city of God (Heb. 2:5–10; Rev. 21:24–26). Jesus will return, deliver his people, and bring the final installment of his kingdom (Rev. 11:15).

Heaven involves God’s people serving their great King as subjects of his kingdom now and forever: “They are before the throne of God, and they serve him day and night” (Rev. 7:15). The Evil One is a defeated foe who will one day be thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:10). Through Christ, believers overcome death, so that at death they go to be with him (Phil. 1:23), and in the resurrection, death will be banished (1 Cor. 15:26; Rev. 21:4).

Conclusion
The kingdom of God is central to the biblical story of redemption. The story follows the narrative of the fall, the calling of the nation of Israel, and the coming of the promised Messiah, while prophesying his return one day in the culmination of all things, at which time he will set up the new Eden of God’s kingdom in the new heavens and new earth. In the meantime, we live in the already and not yet of the kingdom, serving our King and looking for his return.
The Kingdom of God - The Gospel Coalition

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Is the time of Revelation near?

Jeffwhosoever

Faithful Servant & Seminary Student

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keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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Jeffwhosoever

Faithful Servant & Seminary Student

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keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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Brian Mcnamee

Well-Known Member

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keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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