The DeSantis COVID Surge in Florida grows...

The Barbarian · Aug 21, 2021

classical5 said:
LOL. Never before seen such ridiculous tin foil hat lunacy.

The sudden embargo on death data was pretty dumb. Ultimately, the truth comes out anyway...

classical5 said:
I live in Florida. Local hospitals are fine. Just heard on the local NBC news that local hospitals had in increase in covid cases but were nowhere near max capacity and did not expect to be.

Well, let's take a look...
August 13, 2021
COVID, delta variant & burnout fueling crisis. 68% of Florida hospitals expect to hit critical staff shortage
Florida hospitals are near a breaking point as COVID-19 patients fill intensive care units and spill into other units while stretched-thin staff struggle to keep burnout at bay.

By next week, 68% of hospitals expect to reach a critical staffing shortage, according to an Aug. 9 survey conducted twice weekly by the Florida Hospital Association.

The figure climbed 8 percentage points from four days earlier on Aug. 5, which signals how rapidly the situation is deteriorating as the delta variant continues its sweep across the hard-hit state.
COVID and Florida hospitals: Delta variant, staff burnout fuel crisis

MIAMI (AP) — Florida's health officials say the number of COVID-19 deaths jumped significantly from 600, reported in the previous week, to more than 1,000 reported this week.

The new deaths tallied by the Florida Department of Health raise the total coronavirus death toll to 40,766. Last summer, the state reported seven-day averages of about 185 deaths per day, whereas the average on Friday stood at 153. But the state continues to lead the country in rate of hospitalizations.

Florida has about 89 adult patients with COVID-19 per 100,000 people. Hospitalizations rose slightly on Friday from 15,358 to 15,441 patients, including about 3,200 patients who are in intensive care units. In its weekly report, the state averages 21,680 new cases per day in the past seven days, continuing to reach all-time highs like it has in the past two weeks.

In Broward County, officials said the hospital beds for adult ICU patients was reaching capacity while their pediatric ICU beds were at 100% capacity. Many of Florida's hospitals can convert spaces like conference rooms and ambulatory centers into COVID units.
Florida's COVID-19 deaths rise as it leads in hospital rates

The Florida Hospital Association would know this kind of thing, wouldn't they? I'll go with their findings. ICUs are running out of space.

And as noted, you can only run people so hard before they break. There just aren't enough nurses and technicians to do the job properly.

Isilwen · Aug 21, 2021

classical5 said:
LOL. Never before seen such ridiculous tin foil hat lunacy.

I live in Florida. Local hospitals are fine. Just heard on the local NBC news that local hospitals had in increase in covid cases but were nowhere near max capacity and did not expect to

False!

I too live in Florida and also work in EMS as an EMT. I see the hospitals in Florida as my company covers three counties and travels to surrounding counties. Hospitals are full.

Maybe not all counties are as hard hit, like your smaller counties, but your large counties especially those with a city or the counties in between those counties, numbers of Covid+ people is still rising.

HARK! · Aug 21, 2021

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF

The Barbarian · Aug 21, 2021

BOCA RATON, FL (BocaNewsNow.com) (Copyright © 2021 MetroDesk Media, LLC) — The CDC and United States Department of Health and Human Services reported Saturday night that 25,991 new COVID-19 cases were logged in Florida on Friday. That is a new record, and brings the seven day moving average to 21,662.

The death count, which is now the subject of scrutiny due to what’s been called “game playing” by medical professionals — rose by 27. The issue is how Florida is now reporting deaths. While there is no belief that deaths are being hidden, they are being backdated to the date of death as opposed to the date they were reported to state or federal officials. The end result is (or should be) the same, but it appears the new deaths are lower than they are. The cumulative death count in Florida is now 40,584. That suggests roughly 500 new deaths over the past week.
FLORIDA: Another COVID-19 Infection Record Set With 25,991 New Cases

That would be a record, too, except it's hidden by playing games with the numbers.

The Barbarian · Aug 22, 2021

And this is disturbing...

Ron DeSantis and Regeneron: GOP governor stops vaccine promotion in favor of treatment used by Trump

Is a GOP donor the reason why Florida's governor has not held an event promoting vaccines since May?
Ron DeSantis and Regeneron: GOP governor stops vaccine promotion in favor of treatment used by Trump

Instead of spending a few dollars for vaccination to prevent infection, Ron thinks it makes more sense to let people get sick and then give them an unapproved treatment that might help, and costs a great deal more. Yes the government pays for that treatment, too. But it's still not demonstrated to be effective, and the taxpayers are being taken.

It's like refusing to fix a leaking gasoline tank, but deciding to buy more fire extinguishers instead. And Governor Ron's patron is selling fire extinguishers, so to speak.

The Barbarian · Aug 22, 2021

And the deaths continue to increase. While many school districts and communities in Florida are now defying the governor's demands that they not protect their children and citizens, it's not enough. Until the state takes effective action, it's going to get worse.

And more people will die.

The Barbarian · Aug 22, 2021

Florida is not the only state having huge problems with COVID-19. Texas, no July 20, was averaging 23 deaths a day. On August 20, that went to 115 deaths a day, and it's rising rapidly.

Texas is doing a little better than Florida, because the Texas courts have limited Gov. Abbott's ability to dictate to local governments and school districts what they can do to protect their people. So many areas are now blunting the worst of the new infections and deaths.

Chalk it up to the stubborn (and healthy) libertarian streak in Texas. When Abbott tried to ban mask mandates from schools, many districts made masks part of their dress code, which the governor cannot change by law.

classical5 · Aug 22, 2021

Isilwen said:
False!

I too live in Florida and also work in EMS as an EMT. I see the hospitals in Florida as my company covers three counties and travels to surrounding counties. Hospitals are full.

Maybe not all counties are as hard hit, like your smaller counties, but your large counties especially those with a city or the counties in between those counties, numbers of Covid+ people is still rising.

Lets try this again and see if it isn’t too much truth for some people....

There is so much politically driven fear mongering that every person with the sniffles runs to the doc thinking they have that deadly covid, and the clinics and hospitals who get paid a fortune for every covid case play the game.

what happened to the flu since 2019? Flu cases put into the covid bin to jack up the numbers.

Some get covid and need a doctor or hospital, most do not. It’s a scam.

Isilwen · Aug 22, 2021

classical5 said:
Lets try this again and see if it isn’t too much truth for some people....

There is so much politically driven fear mongering that every person with the sniffles runs to the doc thinking they have that deadly covid, and the clinics and hospitals who get paid a fortune for every covid case play the game.

what happened to the flu since 2019? Flu cases put into the covid bin to jack up the numbers.

Some get covid and need a doctor or hospital, most do not. It’s a scam.

It is not a scam, and if you kept an open mind you would know and realize that the mitigation measures for Covid also work well for the Flu. Flu numbers were down because many were wearing maks, social distancing, places were shut down and people just flat out washed their hands more.

Do yourself a favor and stop looking at conspiracy websites.

loveofourlord · Aug 22, 2021

classical5 said:
Lets try this again and see if it isn’t too much truth for some people....

There is so much politically driven fear mongering that every person with the sniffles runs to the doc thinking they have that deadly covid, and the clinics and hospitals who get paid a fortune for every covid case play the game.

what happened to the flu since 2019? Flu cases put into the covid bin to jack up the numbers.

Some get covid and need a doctor or hospital, most do not. It’s a scam.

Nonsense they don't make money off of covid any more then any other disease, this is just complete hogwash and propaganda. And I highly doubt EVERY hospital is doing that, yeah the US health care is a mess, but that's beyond rediculous. And gee you social distance and wear masks and magickaly flu goes away huh? Just like all the asians countries do and avoid as bad flu seasons.

The Barbarian · Aug 22, 2021

loveofourlord said:
Nonsense they don't make money off of covid any more then any other disease, this is just complete hogwash and propaganda.

It's a dirty slur on the doctors, nurses, and other personnel who are putting themselves in harm's way by caring for those with COVID-19 and who are, in many places exhausted and overworked.

It's one of Trump's favorite lies...

Trump Baselessly Suggests COVID-19 Deaths Inflated for Profit
Trump Baselessly Suggests COVID-19 Deaths Inflated for Profit - FactCheck.org

loveofourlord · Aug 22, 2021

classical5 said:
Lets try this again and see if it isn’t too much truth for some people....

There is so much politically driven fear mongering that every person with the sniffles runs to the doc thinking they have that deadly covid, and the clinics and hospitals who get paid a fortune for every covid case play the game.

what happened to the flu since 2019? Flu cases put into the covid bin to jack up the numbers.

Some get covid and need a doctor or hospital, most do not. It’s a scam.

Sides that wasn't your claim that's a different thing that they are full because they are trying to make profits, you said they were empty and not full.

classical5 · Aug 23, 2021

Isilwen said:
It is not a scam, and if you kept an open mind you would know and realize that the mitigation measures for Covid also work well for the Flu. Flu numbers were down because many were wearing maks, social distancing, places were shut down and people just flat out washed their hands more.

Do yourself a favor and stop looking at conspiracy websites.

Masks in the general population do nothing, that’s been known for many years before covid. Learn the science.

In the general public social distancing is pointless as well, particularly with a virus that can live for an extended period outside the body. Learn the science.

Hand washing is effective. That’s been known for a century. But does the general public wash their hands enough (or use sanitizer) to make a difference? No. Learn the science.

classical5 · Aug 23, 2021

Isilwen said:
It is not a scam, and if you kept an open mind you would know and realize that the mitigation measures for Covid also work well for the Flu. Flu numbers were down because many were wearing maks, social distancing, places were shut down and people just flat out washed their hands more.

Do yourself a favor and stop looking at conspiracy websites.

But let’s play your game for a minute.

Flu and covid transmission are similar. If masks and distancing and hand washing virtually eliminated flu in 2020 and 2021, why wasn’t covid eliminated?

Flu in early 2020 and early 2021 were at about 50 confirmed cases weekly, normally they would be over 10,000 cases weekly, that’s from cdcflu view website.

Why was flu eliminated NATIONWIDE, in Texas and Florida and California, in states with total lockdown and mask mandates and states that stayed open? But covid was a “pandemic” that impacted different states to wildly varying degrees.

Why? Explain that one.

loveofourlord · Aug 23, 2021

classical5 said:
But let’s play your game for a minute.

Flu and covid transmission are similar. If masks and distancing and hand washing virtually eliminated flu in 2020 and 2021, why wasn’t covid eliminated?

Flu in early 2020 and early 2021 were at about 50 confirmed cases weekly, normally they would be over 10,000 cases weekly, that’s from cdcflu view website.

Why was flu eliminated NATIONWIDE, in Texas and Florida and California, in states with total lockdown and mask mandates and states that stayed open? But covid was a “pandemic” that impacted different states to wildly varying degrees.

Why? Explain that one.

Because of the danger of the flu + covid many people took the flu vaccine, plus lets not forget despite the conspiracies covid showed up at the point when the flu naturally starts to disappear in the west,.

Isilwen · Aug 23, 2021

classical5 said:
But let’s play your game for a minute.

Flu and covid transmission are similar. If masks and distancing and hand washing virtually eliminated flu in 2020 and 2021, why wasn’t covid eliminated?

Flu in early 2020 and early 2021 were at about 50 confirmed cases weekly, normally they would be over 10,000 cases weekly, that’s from cdcflu view website.

Why was flu eliminated NATIONWIDE, in Texas and Florida and California, in states with total lockdown and mask mandates and states that stayed open? But covid was a “pandemic” that impacted different states to wildly varying degrees.

Why? Explain that one.

Apparently, you really do not know science, so as you told me, learn the science!

See, I learned the science, it is how I can confidently say what I have. You listen to conspiracy clap-trap. You didn't learn the science. You only learned what proves your bias against masks, vaccinations and social distancing.

You do you. I'm done arguing with you.

The Barbarian · Aug 23, 2021

classical5 said:
Masks in the general population do nothing, that’s been known for many years before covid.

You've been badly misled about that. But you probably have no understanding of the way they work, or what happens in transmission of infection, so you were easy prey for people who you trusted, but know no better than you do:

mSphere. 2020 Oct 21;5(5):e00637-20.
Effectiveness of Face Masks in Preventing Airborne Transmission of SARS-CoV-2
Abstract
...Here, we developed an airborne transmission simulator of infectious SARS-CoV-2-containing droplets/aerosols produced by human respiration and coughs and assessed the transmissibility of the infectious droplets/aerosols and the ability of various types of face masks to block the transmission. We found that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks all have a protective effect with respect to the transmission of infective droplets/aerosols of SARS-CoV-2 and that the protective efficiency was higher when masks were worn by a virus spreader. Importantly, medical masks (surgical masks and even N95 masks) were not able to completely block the transmission of virus droplets/aerosols even when completely sealed. Our data will help medical workers understand the proper use and performance of masks and determine whether they need additional equipment to protect themselves from infected patients.IMPORTANCE Airborne simulation experiments showed that cotton masks, surgical masks, and N95 masks provide some protection from the transmission of infective SARS-CoV-2 droplets/aerosols; however, medical masks (surgical masks and even N95 masks) could not completely block the transmission of virus droplets/aerosols even when sealed.

Learn the science.

The Barbarian · Aug 23, 2021

classical5 said:
In the general public social distancing is pointless as well, particularly with a virus that can live for an extended period outside the body.

Turns out, there's a thing called "minimum infectious dose." And that is why social distancing works.

Sustain Cities Soc. 2020 Nov;62:102390
The efficacy of social distance and ventilation effectiveness in preventing COVID-19 transmission
Abstract

Social distancing and ventilation were emphasized broadly to control the ongoing pandemic COVID-19 in confined spaces. Rationales behind these two strategies, however, were debated, especially regarding quantitative recommendations. The answers to "what is the safe distance" and "what is sufficient ventilation" are crucial to the upcoming reopening of businesses and schools, but rely on many medical, biological, and engineering factors. This study introduced two new indices into the popular while perfect-mixing-based Wells-Riley model for predicting airborne virus related infection probability - the underlying reasons for keeping adequate social distance and space ventilation. The distance index Pd can be obtained by theoretical analysis on droplet distribution and transmission from human respiration activities, and the ventilation index Ez represents the system-dependent air distribution efficiency in a space. The study indicated that 1.6-3.0 m (5.2-9.8 ft) is the safe social distance when considering aerosol transmission of exhaled large droplets from talking, while the distance can be up to 8.2 m (26 ft) if taking into account of all droplets under calm air environment. Because of unknown dose response to COVID-19, the model used one actual pandemic case to calibrate the infectious dose (quantum of infection), which was then verified by a number of other existing cases with short exposure time (hours). Projections using the validated model for a variety of scenarios including transportation vehicles and building spaces illustrated that (1) increasing social distance (e.g., halving occupancy density) can significantly reduce the infection rate (20-40 %) during the first 30 min even under current ventilation practices; (2) minimum ventilation or fresh air requirement should vary with distancing condition, exposure time, and effectiveness of air distribution systems.

Learn the science.

Hvizsgyak · Aug 23, 2021

The Barbarian said:
Turns out, there's a thing called "minimum infectious dose." And that is why social distancing works.

Sustain Cities Soc. 2020 Nov;62:102390
The efficacy of social distance and ventilation effectiveness in preventing COVID-19 transmission
Abstract

Social distancing and ventilation were emphasized broadly to control the ongoing pandemic COVID-19 in confined spaces. Rationales behind these two strategies, however, were debated, especially regarding quantitative recommendations. The answers to "what is the safe distance" and "what is sufficient ventilation" are crucial to the upcoming reopening of businesses and schools, but rely on many medical, biological, and engineering factors. This study introduced two new indices into the popular while perfect-mixing-based Wells-Riley model for predicting airborne virus related infection probability - the underlying reasons for keeping adequate social distance and space ventilation. The distance index Pd can be obtained by theoretical analysis on droplet distribution and transmission from human respiration activities, and the ventilation index Ez represents the system-dependent air distribution efficiency in a space. The study indicated that 1.6-3.0 m (5.2-9.8 ft) is the safe social distance when considering aerosol transmission of exhaled large droplets from talking, while the distance can be up to 8.2 m (26 ft) if taking into account of all droplets under calm air environment. Because of unknown dose response to COVID-19, the model used one actual pandemic case to calibrate the infectious dose (quantum of infection), which was then verified by a number of other existing cases with short exposure time (hours). Projections using the validated model for a variety of scenarios including transportation vehicles and building spaces illustrated that (1) increasing social distance (e.g., halving occupancy density) can significantly reduce the infection rate (20-40 %) during the first 30 min even under current ventilation practices; (2) minimum ventilation or fresh air requirement should vary with distancing condition, exposure time, and effectiveness of air distribution systems.

Learn the science.

Despite this one decision to mandate a no-mask policy for Florida schools, Ron DeSantis has been best governor Florida has had since Gov Thomas Leroy Collins. He has surprised me as governor. I did not vote for Pres Trump in either 2016 or 2020 elections and when Gov DeSantis campaigned as an ally to Pres Trump, I wrote him off my list as one to be governor. But since being elected to the governorship, he has run Florida perfectly in my eyes. He was concerned for tourism and knew the state needed to clean up its act environmentally. He was for getting our kids educated first and foremost and helping teachers out (my wife is a teacher).

Having said that, let me tell you about kids wearing masks in school. It's not what many think. The young kids don't understand it. Alot of them wear their masks incorrectly and no matter how many times you try to correct them, the mask goes back the way it was on their face - WITH IT DOWN BELOW THE NOSE. So as a teacher do you spend the whole class trying to keep the masks over the young students nose or do you hope for the best and teach your subject.

How about those older students who should understand somewhat what's going on with COVID-19. Any chance they get, they have the mask down around their necks because its just not "cool". Do you remember when we were that young, we felt invincible, not could really hurt us. Well, the kids are the same way today, they don't see the concern. So as they walk the halls, practice their sports, or sit and eat lunch together, they have their masks off.

So stop fooling yourselves if you think, the schools demanding the kids wear masks will prevent COVID-19 Delta Variant from spreading in the schools. Yes, Gov DeSantis shouldn't have made "No Masks in Public Schools" mandatory, it was bad PR. But the kids will be the final sayers of the mask wearing.

By the way, The Barbarian, despite all your anti-DeSantis rhetoric, I will vote this time for Ron Desantis in whatever office he seeks because he is just that great of a governor. And a little advice - stop being such an overly zealous pom pom person for CNN.

Isilwen · Aug 23, 2021

Hvizsgyak said:
I will vote this time for Ron Desantis in whatever office he seeks because he is just that great of a governor.

This is a matter of opinion, and one that I do not hold and will be voting against Desantis in 2022 and 2024 if he runs for president.

The DeSantis COVID Surge in Florida grows...

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