What is a Beast in Prophetic Scripture

Just The Facts said:

Hi Doug

Ok So you believe the Beast is in fact one of the Children of the watchers? Who are now disembodied Spirits locked in the pit

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No. I think the beast in the bottomless pit is the original serpent in the garden of eden. The serpent was a creature. Not a human, but a person, it appears because it refers to the serpent as "he" not it.

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

The watchers, I think were angels. Who would the angels had sex with for the serpent to be one of their children.

btw, where are you getting "Children of the Watchers" in the bible?

Just The Facts said:

I thought you were saying you thought the Beast was one of the children.

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You must have me mixed up with someone else. I never said that the serpent was one of the watchers children.

Jamdoc said:

Incorrect, the Ottoman Empire was the 7th Empire referred to.
The 8th beast is the one in the future and it is a revived version of one or more of those past empires "of the seven".
I lean towards Ottoman
some people lean towards Rome
it could be both, or some other Amalgamation and will probably include territory from Iraq (Babylon), Syria (Assyria), Iran (Persia), Egypt, and Greece, along with more of Europe and north Africa (Rome)

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Breaking the Beast:

Beast = kingdom (Dan. 7:23)

Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire: 1806
The Holy Roman Empire was once comprised of Italy and Germany.

Beast-kingdom from the sea (Rev. 13:1): the Neo-Roman Empire

Seven Italian heads (Rev. 17:9–10):
1. Vittorio Emanuele di Savoia (1802–1821)
2. Carlo Felice Giuseppe Maria di Savoia (1821–1831)
3. Carlo Alberto Emanuele Vittorio Maria Clemente Saverio di Savoia (1831–1849)
4. Vittorio Emanuele Maria Alberto Eugenio Ferdinando Tommaso (1849–1878)
5. Umberto Ranieri Carlo Emanuele Giovanni Maria Ferdinando Eugenio di Savoia (1878–1900)
6. Vittorio Emanuele Ferdinando Maria Gennaro di Savoia-Carignano (1900–1946)*
7. Umberto Nicola Tommaso Giovanni Maria di Savoia (1946)**

* Wounded by an Austrian grenade and healed (Rev. 13:3)
** Reigned only 34 days (Rev. 17:10)

The names of blasphemy: Emanuele (God is with us), Giuseppe (God will add, increase), Giovanni (God is gracious)

“The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction (Rev. 17:11).”

“When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them (Rev. 11:7).”

“Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God (2 Th. 2:3–4).”

Ten German horns (Rev. 17:12–13):
1. Frederick William III (1797–1840)
2. Frederick William IV (1840–1861)
3. William I (1861–1888)
4. Frederick III (1888)
5. Wilhelm II (1888–1918)
6. Friedrich Ebert (1918–1925)
7. Hans Luther (1925)
8. Walter Simons (1925)
9. Paul von Hindenburg (1925–1934)
10. Adolf Hitler (1934–1945)*

*Whose holocaust lasted 42 months (Rev. 13:5)

The beast from the sea (Neo-Roman Empire) lasted from 1806 to 1946.

Beast-kingdom from the earth (Rev. 13:11): the World Wide Web

Two UK horns (Rev. 13:11):
1. George VI (1936–1952)
2. Elizabeth II (1952–present)

The 6th letter of the Hebrew alphabet is “waw.” It has a numerical value of 6, like the Roman numeral “vi” has a numerical value of 6 (Waw (letter) - Wikipedia). So 666 is literally “www.” This is the number of the beast-kingdom we are living in today, and it is also the name of the beast-kingdom (the World Wide Web/Information Age). It is the number of a man. One man from London invented the World Wide Web in 1989: his name is Tim Berners-Lee. He is not the antichrist, though he was raised in the Anglican Church and became an atheist in the Unitarian Universalist church.

Beast = kingdom (Dan. 7:23)

“Number of the beast (Rev. 13:18)”
WWW = 666 (Waw (letter) - Wikipedia)

“Mark of the beast (Rev. 13:16)”
Mark = thing carved, sculpture, or graven work (G5480 - charagma - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv))

“Image of the beast (Rev. 13:14)”
Image = a likeness, i.e. (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance:—image (G1504 - eikōn - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv))

1946: Charg-It
1948: Manchester Baby
1949: Manchester Mark 1
1950: Diners’ Club
1951: Ferranti Mark 1
1958: Visa
1966: Mastercard
1974: Internet
1975: Microsoft
1976: Apple
1984: Apple Macintosh
1985: Discover Card
1989: WORLD WIDE WEB (WWW) = NAME OF THE BEAST (Rev. 13:17)
1990: World’s first web browser and search engine
1991: SIM card
1992: Treaty on Open Skies
1993: World Wide Web put into the public domain by the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN)
1994: Amazon
1995: eBay
1996: SMARTPHONES = MARK OF THE WORLD WIDE WEB BEAST (Rev. 13:16)
1997: Mobile commerce
1998: Google
1999: PayPal
2003: MySpace
2004: Facebook
2006: Twitter
2007: Apple iPhone
2009: Bitcoin
2011: Apple Siri
2012: Huawei P1
2013: Google Pixel
2014: Amazon Alexa
2016: SOPHIA THE ROBOT = IMAGE OF THE NEO-ROMAN BEAST (Rev. 13:14)*
2017: Sign of the Son of Man (Rev. 12:1–2)
2019: Hailstorms & wildfires
2020: COVID-19
2021: Digital renminbi

* In honor of Leonardo’s robot (Leonardo's robot - Wikipedia)

The beast from the earth (World Wide Web) has lasted from 1946 to present.

“And he causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, and he decrees that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name (Rev. 13:16-17).”

High-speed broadband to be legal right for UK homes and businesses (High-speed broadband to be legal right for UK homes and businesses)

“Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ‘If anyone worships the beast [the World Wide Web] and his image [Sophia the Robot], and receives a mark [smartphone] on his forehead [as a god] or on his hand [as a wallet], he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name. Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus (Rev. 14:9-12).’”

Minky said:

Breaking the Beast:

Beast = kingdom (Dan. 7:23)

Dissolution of the Holy Roman Empire: 1806
The Holy Roman Empire was once comprised of Italy and Germany.

Beast-kingdom from the sea (Rev. 13:1): the Neo-Roman Empire

Seven Italian heads (Rev. 17:9–10):
1. Vittorio Emanuele di Savoia (1802–1821)
2. Carlo Felice Giuseppe Maria di Savoia (1821–1831)
3. Carlo Alberto Emanuele Vittorio Maria Clemente Saverio di Savoia (1831–1849)
4. Vittorio Emanuele Maria Alberto Eugenio Ferdinando Tommaso (1849–1878)
5. Umberto Ranieri Carlo Emanuele Giovanni Maria Ferdinando Eugenio di Savoia (1878–1900)
6. Vittorio Emanuele Ferdinando Maria Gennaro di Savoia-Carignano (1900–1946)*
7. Umberto Nicola Tommaso Giovanni Maria di Savoia (1946)**

* Wounded by an Austrian grenade and healed (Rev. 13:3)
** Reigned only 34 days (Rev. 17:10)

The names of blasphemy: Emanuele (God is with us), Giuseppe (God will add, increase), Giovanni (God is gracious)

“The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction (Rev. 17:11).”

“When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them (Rev. 11:7).”

“Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God (2 Th. 2:3–4).”

Ten German horns (Rev. 17:12–13):
1. Frederick William III (1797–1840)
2. Frederick William IV (1840–1861)
3. William I (1861–1888)
4. Frederick III (1888)
5. Wilhelm II (1888–1918)
6. Friedrich Ebert (1918–1925)
7. Hans Luther (1925)
8. Walter Simons (1925)
9. Paul von Hindenburg (1925–1934)
10. Adolf Hitler (1934–1945)*

*Whose holocaust lasted 42 months (Rev. 13:5)

Beast-kingdom from the earth (Rev. 13:11): the United Kingdom

Two UK horns (Rev. 13:11):
1. George VI (1936–1952)
2. Elizabeth II (1952–present)

The 6th letter of the Hebrew alphabet is “waw.” It has a numerical value of 6, like the Roman numeral “vi” has a numerical value of 6 (Waw (letter) - Wikipedia). So 666 is literally “www.” This is the number of the beast-kingdom we are living in today, and it is also the name of the beast-kingdom (the World Wide Web/Information Age). It is the number of a man. One man from London invented the World Wide Web in 1989: his name is Tim Berners-Lee. He is not the antichrist, though he was raised in the Anglican Church and became an atheist in the Unitarian Universalist church.

Beast = kingdom (Dan. 7:23)

“Number of the beast (Rev. 13:18)”
WWW = 666 (Waw (letter) - Wikipedia)

“Mark of the beast (Rev. 13:16)”
Mark = thing carved, sculpture, or graven work (G5480 - charagma - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv))

“Image of the beast (Rev. 13:14)”
Image = a likeness, i.e. (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance:—image (G1504 - eikōn - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv))

1948: Manchester Baby
1949: Manchester Mark 1
1950: Diners’ Club
1951: Ferranti Mark 1
1958: Visa
1966: Mastercard
1974: Internet
1975: Microsoft
1976: Apple
1984: Apple Macintosh
1985: Discover Card
1989: WORLD WIDE WEB (WWW) = NAME OF THE BEAST (Rev. 13:17)
1990: World’s first web browser and search engine
1991: SIM card
1992: Treaty on Open Skies
1993: World Wide Web put into the public domain by the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN)
1994: Amazon
1995: eBay
1996: SMARTPHONES = MARK OF THE WORLD WIDE WEB BEAST (Rev. 13:16)
1997: Mobile commerce
1998: Google
1999: PayPal
2003: MySpace
2004: Facebook
2006: Twitter
2007: Apple iPhone
2009: Bitcoin
2011: Apple Siri
2012: Huawei P1
2013: Google Pixel
2014: Amazon Alexa
2016: SOPHIA THE ROBOT = IMAGE OF THE NEO-ROMAN BEAST (Rev. 13:14)*
2017: Sign of the Son of Man (Rev. 12:1–2)
2019: Hailstorms & wildfires
2020: COVID-19
2021: Digital renminbi

* In honor of Leonardo’s robot (Leonardo's robot - Wikipedia)

“And he causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, and he decrees that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name (Rev. 13:16-17).”

High-speed broadband to be legal right for UK homes and businesses (High-speed broadband to be legal right for UK homes and businesses)

“Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, ‘If anyone worships the beast [the World Wide Web] and his image [Sophia the Robot], and receives a mark [smartphone] on his forehead [as a god] or on his hand [as a wallet], he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name. Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus (Rev. 14:9-12).’”

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Historicism also doesn't work
because all the events of the second coming prophecies will be fulfilled within 1 lifetime.
the generation that sees the fig tree bring forth new leaves.

Matthew 24:32-34

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

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Partial preterism and historicism forgets the all, they're perfectly comfortable with the idea that these prophecies can be separated by hundreds if not thousands of years. People witnessing signs then dying along the way. Jesus said this wouldn't be the case.
full preterism deludes themselves into thinking it's already all been fulfilled and we're in the new earth already, they don't understand the parable of the fig tree and assume the generation Jesus referred to was the generation of apostles.
Ammillennialists allegorize the whole thing in order to hedge against their own unbelief in prophecy being fulfilled as written.

Jamdoc said:

Historicism also doesn't work
because all the events of the second coming prophecies will be fulfilled within 1 lifetime.
the generation that sees the fig tree bring forth new leaves.

Matthew 24:32-34


Partial preterism and historicism forgets the all, they're perfectly comfortable with the idea that these prophecies can be separated by hundreds if not thousands of years. People witnessing signs then dying along the way. Jesus said this wouldn't be the case.
full preterism deludes themselves into thinking it's already all been fulfilled and we're in the new earth already, they don't understand the parable of the fig tree and assume the generation Jesus referred to was the generation of apostles.
Ammillennialists allegorize the whole thing in order to hedge against their own unbelief in prophecy being fulfilled as written.

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"Then the Lord asked me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?”

“Figs,” I answered. “The good ones are very good, but the bad ones are so bad they cannot be eaten.”

Then the word of the Lord came to me: “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians. My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land. I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not uproot them. I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart (Jer. 24:3–7)."

This is the Israeli Declaration of Independence in 1948. A generation is 80 years according to Psalm 90:10

"Our days may come to seventy years,
or eighty, if our strength endures;
yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow,
for they quickly pass, and we fly away (Psa. 90:10)."

Just The Facts said:

Hi Jamdoc

Just how long is a "generation" in biblical terms or your terms or whatever?

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It's not the length of a generation that is important there.
it is the length of a lifetime.
there have been other generations born after the generation that was born when the fig tree brought forth new leaves.
but not all members of that generation will pass away before the fulfillment of all prophecy.

I believe that that began in 1967 when Jerusalem was captured by Israel, as the fig tree that was withered by Jesus in Matthew 21, was in the outskirts of Jerusalem.

It's also uncanny to me that that generation has always been known as Generation X, X not only being an English letter, but also the way the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet, Tav, was written in ancient times.
It's either incredible coincidence, or it is the hand of God signifying Generation X is the "last generation" at least in terms of it being the generation that will see the fulfillment of all prophecy surrounding the second coming from the Alpha and Omega, which translated to Hebrew.. is the Aleph and Tav.

Some people will point at Psalm 90 giving 70-80 years as a lifespan, I do not take a hard line number to this, that was Harold Camping's mistake, attempting to calculate the day of the rapture by going 70 years from 1948 (which people I believe erroneously consider the fig tree sprouting new leaves. Jerusalem was not held by Israel then and it is Jerusalem to which Jesus will return. Jerusalem is the place God chose, not Tel Aviv.), then subtracting 7 because he was a pretribulationist.
I simply believe that people who were born around 1967 will still be alive when Jesus returns.
There may be some people born before 1948 that live that long, I don't know.
but I think the start date was May 30, 1967
but I do not have an end date.
I believe it'll be sooner rather than later though.
but we're already past the 70 years from 1948, so obviously it wasn't that, and I'm pretty sure we'll go right past the 80 year mark from 1948 too, though we might be in tribulation at that time, who knows for sure but God.

Minky said:

"Then the Lord asked me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?”

“Figs,” I answered. “The good ones are very good, but the bad ones are so bad they cannot be eaten.”

Then the word of the Lord came to me: “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians. My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land. I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not uproot them. I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart (Jer. 24:3–7)."

This is the Israeli Declaration of Independence in 1948. A generation is 80 years according to Psalm 90:10

"Our days may come to seventy years,
or eighty, if our strength endures;
yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow,
for they quickly pass, and we fly away (Psa. 90:10)."

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wrong starting date.
Jerusalem, where Jesus will return, was not part of Israel in 1948.
It is also wrong to assume an end date, because Jesus simply said they won't pass, not that it'd be a specific number of years.
Some people live over 100.
I believe Apophis may be connected to the first 4 trumpets, because trumpets 1, 3 and 4 sound like the direct results of an asteroid, with first the smaller parts raining down as fire and brimstone, the 3rd being the largest chunk of asteroid impacting in the land, and the 4th being the smoke and debris dimming the sky. The second trumpet sounds like a supervolcano which will also contribute to the darkening of the sky.
Apophis has 3 potential impacting flybys (they keep trying to rule them out as impacts but the asteroid's trajectory changes and has to be recalculated frequently). 2029, 2036, and 2068.
and I could be wrong that it's connected, but I find it odd coincidence that such an agent that sounds like 3 of the trumpet events is not at all connected to the trumpets.
while billionaires are building bunkers in New Zealand

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

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Hiding in bunkers from the wrath of God, while right now they are being built as shelters for Asteroid impact events or nuclear war.
How New Zealand became an apocalypse escape destination for Americans - CNN

I mean this stuff may be preposterous levels of coincidence..
but I see the hand of God.

anyway... say the first 2 are near misses.
but the 3rd date (2068) is an impact
that'd still be holding true to the statements Jesus made, there would be people born in 1967 still alive in 2068.

Just The Facts said:

HI Doug

Why are you being so cryptic and illusive. You are saying that the spirit was once a once living creature not human but a Person.

Was he an angle?

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Allow me to do a recopy of my first post of this thread...


Kingdoms
kingdom(s) - Daniel 7:23, Revelation 13:2

Persons
men - Revelation 13:3-4, Revelation 17:13, Revelation 13:11, Revelation 17:11, Revelation 13:18, Revelation 20:10, Daniel 7:17, Revelation 17:8b

Satan - Revelation 17:3, Revelation 17:7

Serpent - Genesis 3:1, Revelation 17:8a

Beings
Heavenly creature(s) - Revelation 4:7, Revelation 6:1

____________________________________________

Persons are not necessarily humans. Satan, for example, is a person but not a human. Satan is an angel.

The Serpent is a special situation. He was not an angel. Nor a human.

He was able to speak, reason, in a very communicative way, that Eve had no difficulty in talking back and forth with the Serpent.

The abilities the Serpent had is extremely unusual and unheard of for what we know of beasts today.

Therefore, I consider the Serpent a person, because he showed traits commonly shared by humans, and angels, in being able to communicate in language and think.

In addition the Serpent could have been human-like in appearance, just as the angels are human like in appearance. There is no way of knowing for sure, what the Serpent looked like, before the curse was put on him.

My own personal view is I don't think the Serpent initially had the appearance of a snake, until God placed the curse on him.

Just The Facts said:

HI

Wow a Generation just keeps getting longer with those who believe this story.

Psalms 90 is about the lifespan of a man not a generation a generation is the average time for a group born to procreate.

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Lifespan of a man is more appropriate to what Jesus teaches. Jesus did not say a next generation would not be born, Jesus said a generation of people would not pass away. That's lifespan. But I still think trying to use average lifespans from Psalm 90 is incorrect.

But I will give it to you........ So you believe that all this will happen before 2028? which means that only 1 in 8 who were born that year 1948 will be alive never mind it says the generation that sees this which would actually mean the previous generation so those born say 1908 to 1928 so if you say they all were born in 1928 then they are now 93 which is less than .5 % of the population which means by 2028 they will be .004% of the population.

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2 reasons why this is wrong.
#1 wrong starting date. Jerusalem is what matters. Jesus isn't returning to Tel Aviv or Haifa. He's returning to Jerusalem.
#2 a promise that they would not all be dead, is not a promise within a certain number of years.

also, I don't see it because one of what I believe to be the agents of the wrath of God, won't be flying by until at least 2029. If everything is fulfilled by 2028, doesn't line up.
Now I could be wrong about the asteroid, but it fits better than anything else I've seen.

I can't believe people are still sticking to this obviously totally lost doctrine.

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The root of the problem, isn't it?


as to the last part, I refer to Ezekiel 36 and 37, which show Israel being brought back into their land THEN being cleansed and restored spiritually.
They come back in unbelief first.
That's what has happened, they were not going to come to belief in diaspora.

Just The Facts said:

Hello All

What is a Beat in Prophetic Scripture? Is it a Person a Nation/ Kingdom or maybe Satan. Post Scripture to back your understanding please.

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From a partial-Preterist perspective, Rome would be the Beast. The Roman Empire and the threat it posed to Jerusalem, to be exact. Jerusalem is the harlot, eventually destroyed by the Beast. Thus, many of the events described are actually prophesying the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

I have to admit, this makes way more sense than trying to fit the events of Revelation into a modern time frame.

Just The Facts said:

Hello All

What is a Beat in Prophetic Scripture? Is it a Person a Nation/ Kingdom or maybe Satan. Post Scripture to back your understanding please.

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Hi JTF,

God`s word tells us that a beast is a kingdom.

`The fourth beast shall be a fourth KINGDOM on earth,...` (Dan. 7: 23)

Just The Facts said:

Hi Anna

Thanks for your post. Yes I have studied the Partial preterist view of Revelation I understand why you feel the way you do. However I can not agree. While I do Agree the Beast of RV 13 is Rome I do not agree Revelation to be about the fall of Judea as I do not ascribe to the 66AD date of Revelation.

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Hi JTF,

The `beast` of Rev. 13 is certainly NOT Rome, for God has judged that empire along with the 3 previous ones - Babylon, Medes and Persians, & Greece. Those were world rulers and are NO more.