Pfizer To Get Full Approval; The Mandates Are Coming

Isilwen

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Does not matter they are not saying that you annot do it only that you can not be forced to do so.

You still aren't getting it. Everyone must do it. There needs to be mandates because not everyone is responsible enough to do the right thing. So, the government needs to step in and make them responsible enough or face the repercussions.
 
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dogs4thewin

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You still aren't getting it. Everyone must do it. There needs to be mandates because not everyone is responsible enough to do the right thing. So, the government needs to step in and make them responsible enough or face the repercussions.
and they may choose to face the repercussions that is THEIR choice. If a business tells me I must wear a mask to shop or use their services I am free to EITHER wear a mask or not use their services. If an employer tells me I can either get a vaccine or I can cease working for that employer most employment is at will anyway. I have an uncle who stated in June he would go before a firing squad before getting the vaccine I am not sure if he is quite that serious, but if they told him G you either get the vaccine or you no longer work here G has the right to say fine leave and not show back up. See how that works people still have the CHOICE.
 
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Isilwen

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and they may choose to face the repercussions that is THEIR choice. If a business tells me I must wear a mask to shop or use their services I am free to EITHER wear a mask or not use their services. If an employer tells me I can either get a vaccine or I can cease working for that employer most employment i at will anyway. I have an uncle who stated in June he would go before a firing squad before getting the vaccine I am not sure if he is quite that serious, but if they told him G you either get the vaccine or you o longer work here G has the right to say fine leave and not show back up. See how that works people still have the CHOICE.

Choice shouldn't be a thing in regards to this when a pandemic is ravaging the world. The freedom to choose should be removed in regards to health specifically when it comes to masking and the vaccine.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Choice shouldn't be a thing in regards to this when a pandemic is ravaging the world. The freedom to choose should be removed in regards to health specifically when it comes to masking and the vaccine.
no long as people are willing to accept those same repercussions. Choices have repercussions they can be good or bad if you are willing to accept those without complaining then so be it. What if I said you know what I am not going to take the shot, BUT I am also not going to take up a bed if I get seriously ill.
 
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Isilwen

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BUT I am also not going to take up a bed if I get seriously ill.

Cannot rely on that to happen. You also seem to need to be protected from your own bad choices. Your bad choice not to be vaccinated, or wear a mask can get someone else killed or seriously ill.

Does your family want you to die or at the very least become so seriously ill that you require a ventalator because you chose not to take a vaccine or wear a mask?
 
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dogs4thewin

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Cannot rely on that to happen. You also seem to need to be protected from your own bad choices. Your bad choice not to be vaccinated, or wear a mask can get someone else killed or seriously ill.

Does your family want you to die or at the very least become so seriously ill that you require a ventalator because you chose not to take a vaccine or wear a mask?
no, but I am also 30 years old and as such as long as I was still of sound mind they cannot make my medical decisions. I personally chose to take the vaccine, but as a ( at the time 29 year old it was not because my mother drug me to the health department, sat my rear end in that chair and held me down. ALL she did was make the appointment and drive me there that was it. I was WILLING to get the vaccine though not in a hurry as I had had the virus just three months earlier.
 
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mark46

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Enough data was released for competent individuals to determine getting vaccinated is safer than remaining unvaccinated, except in cases of natural immunity after testing positive for COVID and recovering.

It shouldn't need to be the job of individuals to evaluate medical data. Of course, the data should be released. However, evaluation is the job or the FDA and CDC (and also the WHO). IMO, had they given full approval of the Pfizer earlier, then lives would have been saved.

There may have been the need for more data to determine safety.

Virtually all the experts said that this was NOT the case, and that the full approval didn't need more data. Further, they have stated that the full approval doesn't mean that the vaccine is deemed safer or more efficacious than when it had the emergency approval.
 
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Fantine

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I am not sure what those actions have to do with anything. NO one is telling people they cannot wear a mask. There is a BIG difference between forbidding something and mandating it. Neither of those governors have said that you could not wear a mask OR could not get the vaccine only that it could not been mandated.

You're right. The difference is that Florida and Texas are overwhelmed with desperately sick people. They even have to restrict the water supply near Orlando to provide enough oxygen.

The difference? Deadly irresponsibility v.s. prudent easy-to-follow rules.
 
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Strathos

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and they may choose to face the repercussions that is THEIR choice. If a business tells me I must wear a mask to shop or use their services I am free to EITHER wear a mask or not use their services. If an employer tells me I can either get a vaccine or I can cease working for that employer most employment is at will anyway. I have an uncle who stated in June he would go before a firing squad before getting the vaccine I am not sure if he is quite that serious, but if they told him G you either get the vaccine or you no longer work here G has the right to say fine leave and not show back up. See how that works people still have the CHOICE.

While I sympathize with your position, consider the alternate view.

If every individual cell in your body was given the choice whether to generate an immune response or not, then you likely wouldn't survive the common cold, let alone COVID. But when they all work together and coordinate, our immune system can fight off diseases with great effectiveness. Each of us are like cells in one huge body. If we don't work together, we can't defeat the disease.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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and they may choose to face the repercussions that is THEIR choice. If a business tells me I must wear a mask to shop or use their services I am free to EITHER wear a mask or not use their services. If an employer tells me I can either get a vaccine or I can cease working for that employer most employment is at will anyway. I have an uncle who stated in June he would go before a firing squad before getting the vaccine I am not sure if he is quite that serious, but if they told him G you either get the vaccine or you no longer work here G has the right to say fine leave and not show back up. See how that works people still have the CHOICE.
Once the government mandates it then people will still have the choice to obey the mandate or disobey it and face the repercussion. And if the repercussion is fines and sentence to a special quarantine jail for the unvaccinated then that's fine if they choose that (plus a felony on their record).

I think that's all fine. People dan still choose to break the law and then face the repercussions, and then they can be separated out so the disease can be contained better.

The government really needs to mandate vaccines. President Biden is too conservative to make the move so it may have to come down to the governors of states doing it.
 
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Isilwen

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dqhall

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It shouldn't need to be the job of individuals to evaluate medical data. Of course, the data should be released. However, evaluation is the job or the FDA and CDC (and also the WHO). IMO, had they given full approval of the Pfizer earlier, then lives would have been saved.

There may have been the need for more data to determine safety.

Virtually all the experts said that this was NOT the case, and that the full approval didn't need more data. Further, they have stated that the full approval doesn't mean that the vaccine is deemed safer or more efficacious than when it had the emergency approval.
Most adults read media reports and got vaccinated. When I read things like 97% of hospitalizations and deaths are happening to the unvaccinated and 70% of adults over the age of 18 are vaccinated, I do not need any more certifications to influence me. I had my second Moderna vaccination in April and may get a booster in December. I am 62. Those over 65 in my 55+ community were reserving appointments to get vaccinated last winter. Some waited in line all night at vaccination centers before they got a reservation system set up. Canadians who own property in Florida were flying to Florida to get vaccinated.
 
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mark46

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Most adults read media reports and got vaccinated. When I read things like 97% of hospitalizations and deaths are happening to the unvaccinated and 70% of adults over the age of 18 are vaccinated, I do not need any more certifications to influence me. I had my second Moderna vaccination in April and may get a booster in December. I am 62. Those over 65 in my 55+ community were reserving appointments to get vaccinated last winter. Some waited in line all night at vaccination centers before they got a reservation system set up. Canadians who own property in Florida were flying to Florida to get vaccinated.


Yes, most adult have been vaccinated. I think that we just reached 52%. Many businesses, governments and other entities have set their standard at 100%. Vaccinate or don't participate.

Yes, you see the stats and that is enough to convince you. Now we need to work on those who are unvaccinated.
 
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dqhall

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Yes, most adult have been vaccinated. I think that we just reached 52%. Many businesses, governments and other entities have set their standard at 100%. Vaccinate or don't participate.

Yes, you see the stats and that is enough to convince you. Now we need to work on those who are unvaccinated.
The 52% vaccinated number includes children under the age of 18, if I am not mistaken.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/02/cov...70percent-goal-for-adults-a-month-behind.html
 
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KCfromNC

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I am not sure what those actions have to do with anything. NO one is telling people they cannot wear a mask. There is a BIG difference between forbidding something and mandating it. Neither of those governors have said that you could not wear a mask OR could not get the vaccine only that it could not been mandated.
There's actually a concept in economics which closely parallels this issue - Tragedy of the commons - Wikipedia. The shorthand there is that for shared resources (for example, the air we all breathe) simply letting everyone do what they want leads to a worse outcome for everyone. The idea is typically used for things like pollution. There, it is in each individual's best interest to pollute as much as they want. There's less of an individual cost than having to clean up after oneself, and no one individual can create enough pollution to really matter.

But when everyone does what's best for them, we all suffer because in total that's a lot of air pollution to deal with.

I'm sure people can see the similarities with mask and vaccine mandates.
 
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KCfromNC

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and they may choose to face the repercussions that is THEIR choice.
Including making people who refuse to get the vaccine or wear masks pay the full covid-related medical expenses for everyone else? Sounds like a plan. I can't wait for my health insurance costs to go down.
 
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