The Grim Reality of Homosexuality

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Ceallaigh

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so a couple decades ago some anonymous faceless people claimed they were part of a quasi mythical organization....and that is proof....RIGHT

I didn't say it was proof. You said "go ask some", and I pointed out that I already had asked some boy lover men (but somehow according to uncited research, this male to male sexual interest isn't homosexual). It would be nice if the situation was quasi mythical, but it isn't.
 
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Ceallaigh

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interestingly enough the charge of decadence was leveled at Jews in the 1930's by the Nazi party to prop up their claim that Jews were a danger to children

That's exactly the sort of analogy the pedophiles on Usenet gave me.
 
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Lifelong_sinner

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interestingly enough the charge of decadence was leveled at Jews in the 1930's by the Nazi party to prop up their claim that Jews were a danger to children

so heres a good place to start. Do you believe that gay people are committing a sin by living a gay lifestyle??
 
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Clare73

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I believe when it comes to finding the way of escape, the Orthodox Christians are particularly talented because of their ascetic traditions as documented in the Philokalia.
Would you please elaborate on that a little more. . .specifying and describing the practices which are successful in escaping, etc.
 
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JerryinMass

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People of the same sex living together as a couple = gay lifestyle. Dont see how there can be more than one gay lifestyle.
Gay used to mean happy and content. Call it what it is: homosexual.
 
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Clare73

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oh please...this lie? again????

Usually this lie comes up when someone wishes to paint gays and lesbians as somehow diseased or sick. It’s usually worded as a reference to the fact that in 1973 the American Psychological Association removed homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual.
The main point they want to impose is that somehow this scientific organization rejected science and caved to political pressures from potentially violent and harassing homosexuals. Usually there are claims about “militant homosexuals” and secret meetings and committees forcing passage of the proposal.

These wacky conspiracy theories come from a small handful of publications about the 1973 APA decision. Works like:
Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth by Jeffrey Satinover
The Agenda: The homosexual plan to change America by Louis Sheldon
The Homosexual Agenda: Exposing the Principal Threat to Religious Freedom Today Alan Sears and Craig Osten

None of these people were there or in any way involved. Satinover was in high school in 1973.


Compare those works with the public record and the writings and interviews with the men and women who were there.

American Psychiatry and Homosexuality: An Oral History by Jack Dresher and Joseph Merlino
Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis by Ronald Bayer
Changing American Psychiatry A Personal Perspective Melvin Sabshin
Out of DSM: Depathologizing Homosexuality by Jack Drescher
American Psychiatry and Homosexuality edited by John Merlino

History shows that the reason homosexuality was removed form the DSM in 1973 was because of the complete lack of evidence that homosexuality is a mental illness.

The removal of homosexuality from the DSM was not the result of bullying but the result of years of research and debate in the APA. It started in 1968 when a large group of APA members protested the fact that on the panel looking at homosexuality only presented the views of one individual. The specifics of the complaint were that the panel painted the entire psychiatric profession as being followers of Charles Socarides. The panelists' response was to issue a challenge to those in disagreement with Socarides to refute his theories.

Durring the 1972 meeting of the APA one of the members, Judd Marmor, issued a strong condemnation of Charles Socarides for having written a "monstrous attack on homosexuality" for JAMA and for some traditional psychoanalytical societies. Dr. Marmor additionally spoke about intense anti-homosexual bias within the profession. "The cruelty, the thoughtlessness, the lack of common humanity, in the attitudes of many conservative psychiatrists is I think a disgrace to our profession." (Ref Bayer)
Shortly after the 1972 APA meeting, Dr. Richard Green, wrote a lengthy summary of the issues in the dispute over the classification of homosexuality in the DSM. His article, "Homosexuality as a Mental Illness," published in the International Journal of Psychiatry, charged that there was no existing data to support the claim that homosexuality is a disease or that sexual relations between opposite sex partners are preferable to those between same sex partners. Dr. Green's article included formal invitations for response, four of them designed to highlight the extent of the division between the traditional theory and the newer theories based on work of Evelyn Hooker and others. Two of the invitees were Judd Marmor and Charles Socarides. (Ref Bayer)
The issue is not mental illness, that's a red herring. . .the issue is deviancy.
It was removed as "deviant," however, it is deviant behavior.
In early 1973 several petitions for the removal of homosexuality from the DSM were presented to the nomenclature committee.

the APA's Nomenclature Committee met in February of 1973. Among those present at the meeting, Dr. Seymour Halleck stressed that there was no scientific evidence supporting the theory that homosexuality was a developmental disorder. Numerous scientists presented research on homosexuality presenting evidence that homosexuality was not a disorder but rather a normal variation of human sexuality.

Charles Silverstein presented the work of many scientists showing that the DSM classification was not consistent with a scientific perspective. Indicating that homosexuality does not even meet the base definition of a mental disorder.

Silverstein stated "I suppose what we're saying is that you must choose between the undocumented theories that have unjustly harmed a great number of people and continue to harm them and ... controlled scientific studies. It is no sin to have made an error in the past, but surely you will mock the principles of scientific research upon which the diagnostic system is based if you turn your backs on the only objective evidence we have." (Ref Bayer)


The APA's Nomenclature Committee went through an 11-month process by preparing a report recommending the change in DSM-II. This process was open to any APA member and in the course of the 11 months 78 different experts were called on to present evidence and research. The committee specifically invited most vocal opponents of the change, Charles Socarides, Irving Bieber, and Robert McDevitt, to present research and evidence. While all three attended meetings they presented no research. Instead they chose to complain how the this was a political move not a scientific one.

At the end of this process the APA's Council on Research and Development unanimously recommended deletion of homosexuality from DSM-II. Next, it was taken to the Assembly of District Branches, where it was again approved. The next step was the APA Reference Committee, composed of the heads of the various APA councils and the president-elect. The Reference Committee endorsed the proposal, leaving the approval of the board of trustees at the December meeting as the final step. (Ref Bayer)

Then the APA Board of Trustees again invited , Charles Socarides, Irving Bieber, and Robert McDevitt, to present their case a third time on December 10, 1973. Bieber restated the old theories without presenting data to support them. Socarides and McDevitt complained that the change in classification was motivated by politics, not by scientific studies. Socarides and McDevitt were asked once again to present scientific studies supporting their view of homosexuality as a pathology. They could not produce any. Following those presentations, the Board of Trustees met in executive session and voted to approve the removal of homosexuality from DSM

Socarides and Bieber poured over the associations by-laws and found a provision designed to provide some democratic control over the association's corporate life, and then forced a petition demanding a referendum of the Association's membership. Amazingly, those who accused the APA of capitulating to political pressure were now themselves forcing a political maneuver and using a loophole in a provision for non-scientific matters to accomplish their end. It didn't work.

This happened almost 50 years ago and since then there has been no evidence and no research to show homosexuality is or ever was a mental illness.
 
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Clare73

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interestingly enough the charge of decadence was leveled at Jews in the 1930's by the Nazi party to prop up their claim that Jews were a danger to children
Relevance?
 
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Clare73

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so a couple decades ago some anonymous faceless people claimed they were part of
a quasi mythical organization....and that is proof....RIGHT
I have likewise encountered the phenomenon, and it was not quasi mythical.
 
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The Liturgist

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so a couple decades ago some anonymous faceless people claimed they were part of a quasi mythical organization....and that is proof....RIGHT

Actually, NAMBLa did exist; its existence and shutdown by the feds is a matter of public record. There was also a Paedophile Information Exchange, which was formally associated with the major gay groups in the Netherlands, until they realized that was a very bad look...
 
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The Liturgist

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Would you please elaborate on that a little more. . .specifying and describing the practices which are successful in escaping, etc.

It comes down to what the Bible says: fasting and prayer and vigils and repentance and contrition. But there is quite a lot that goes into that, so the easiest way to learn would be to look up Hesychasm and Eastern Orthodox monasteries, or Coptic Orthodox monasteries like St. Anthony’s. The videos of Fr. Lazarus, an Australian convert to the Coptic Orthodox Church who now is a hermit at St. Anthony’s, the only one now serving, are instructional.
 
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JerryinMass

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so a couple decades ago some anonymous faceless people claimed they were part of a quasi mythical organization....and that is proof....RIGHT
North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is not mythical: it's reality, and was formed in 1978. It was underground for long periods of time before it came out publicly. Now nambla has its own website and political action advocates pushing for legal reforms, much like what passed in California last year. The lgbtq community has embraced the perverts of nambla just as they have those with gender identity disorders. The devil is certainly enjoying their company.
 
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Clare73

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It comes down to what the Bible says: fasting and prayer and vigils and repentance and contrition. But there is quite a lot that goes into that, so the easiest way to learn would be to look up Hesychasm and Eastern Orthodox monasteries, or Coptic Orthodox monasteries like St. Anthony’s. The videos of Fr. Lazarus, an Australian convert to the Coptic Orthodox Church who now is a hermit at St. Anthony’s, the only one now serving, are instructional.
What kind of asceticism do you see in the life of Christ?
 
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HARK!

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MOD HAT ON

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MOD HAT OFF
 
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