"again crucify to themselves the Son of God" ?

Mark Quayle

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Some say it might have been Barnabas or Apollos.

"As far as whom the author is, we simply have no idea, no one claims authorship. There are a couple of things we do know; we do know that the author was not a first generation believer. In Hebrews 2:3 he says that our salvation “was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard,” so he’s saying I did not hear this directly from Jesus. We have a second generation Christian in other words, and despite some argumentation Paul most certainly did not write Hebrews. In some of the early centuries they started the story that Paul wrote Hebrews; as far as we know it was motivated by a desire to get Hebrews into the Canon. Because we don’t know who wrote Hebrews, it had trouble getting into the Canon so the church finally said, “Paul wrote it so it has to be included,” but there’s simply no way that Paul wrote this book, not unless he’s schizophrenic or something. The way that the author of Hebrews thinks is totally different than Paul; his writing style and his vocabulary is drastically different from Paul’s and so there’s just no way that Paul wrote this book. The two guesses are: Tertullian’s guess that Barnabas wrote it; of course it’s a wild guess because we don’t have anything else that Barnabas wrote, so we don’t know how he wrote. The guess that most people follow, if you’re into guessing, is Luther’s guess and that is that Apollos wrote it. The book is heavily Jewish and it’s heavily theological and the only person who really fits that description in the New Testament that didn’t write other books is Apollos. It’s a wild guess, but if you have to guess, most people would guess Apollos because of the nature of the argument."

Lecture 26: Hebrews | Free Online Biblical Library
My father was probably the Greek Scholar I admire most, and trust most, and he didn't think it was Paul, either.
 
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FaithWillDo

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Not sure how you connect that with "crucifying the Son of God again"?

Dear Zoidar,

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Christ died on the cross and His blood covers our sins. Christ did this great "work" and it fulfilled the Old Covenant of Law. Under the New Covenant, man's works are "dead" and have no place in our salvation. If we believe we must do any "works" to gain salvation (even just taking credit for our confession of faith), we are rejecting Christ's sacrifice and are, in essence, saying that His sacrifice was in vain. And if it was in vain, then Christ needs to be sacrificed again, which would put Him to open shame for having failed the first time.

This belief in "works" is the sin that leads to dead. It causes us to "fall away" and because of such, we cannot be renewed by repentance. But as I said in my post, all Early Rain believers commit this sin because we remain spiritually blind plus our carnal nature prefers the Old Covenant of works over the New Covenant of Grace. Under the New Covenant, Christ does 100% of the work. He did His physical work at the cross and now He is doing His spiritual work within each person who has ever lived. However, in this age, Christ is only coming to and saving the First-Fruits of His harvest of mankind. They were "chosen" from the foundation of the world. The rest of mankind will be saved at the end of the harvest season which occurs at the end of the final age (the Lake of Fire age).

Since our salvation is 100% the work of Christ, we have no say in when He will come to us and save us. He established an order for our salvation before the creation began. The present age is only for the First-Fruits. God chose them and not the other way around. Then in the final age, after the fullness of the Gentiles come in, the Nation of Israel will be saved, including the Pharisees and Scribes who were responsible for crucifying Christ (the first will be last).

The Old Covenant of Law (man's works) proved that mankind cannot save themselves. Because it fails to save us, it should lead us to Christ who will do 100% of the work of saving each and every one of us. His work of saving mankind has two parts. Christ performed the first part at the cross where He earned the keys to death and hell. Now He has the power to resurrect all mankind from the grave. But "life" is not enough.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life (Part 1), and that they might have it more abundantly(Part 2).

Christ also wants to give us a more abundant life and that is the work He is presently doing in His First-Fruits. They were chosen from the foundation of the world. They will receive BOTH the Early and Latter Rain of the Spirit in this age before they die. Their "days were shortened" and they do not have to wait to the final age to be saved as does most of mankind. They are blessed and they will see more abundant life during in the final age, whereas, the rest of mankind will be judged.

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.

The judgment of Christ is not like mankind's judgment.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

Christ's judgment is for our benefit. It saves us and teaches us righteousness.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

Because of this truth, judgment is a necessary part of the pathway to salvation. Everyone must be judged.

Mat 3:11-12 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Luke 12:49 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

1Cor 3:13-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

1Pet 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

"Fire" is the spiritual symbol for the judgment of Christ. It is NOT literal fire and has an end to it.

Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”

Every person when they are judged will "pay the last penny". The last penny is the complete and utter destruction of our carnal nature. After it is destroyed, all that will be left is the new nature the Holy Spirit gives us. That is the ultimate purpose for Christ's judgment.

Christ also stated it this way:

Mat 21:44 and he who is falling on this stone shall be broken, and on whomsoever it may fall it will crush him to pieces.

Christ is the "stone". We fall on this stone after receiving the Early Rain and lose our salvation. But after the Latter Rain, Christ begins His judgment of our Old Man and we are ground to pieces (we pay the last penny).

Since the Elect are the First-Fruits, they are first to be judged. Their judgment happens before they physically die in this current age.

1Pe 4:17 For it is the ripe time for the judgment to begin with the house of God; but, if first with us, what shall be the end of them who yield not unto the glad-message of God?

Then in the final age, the rest of mankind will be judged.

Rev 20:15 and if any one was not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.

The parable of the Ten Virgins is a teaching on the pathway which Christ causes His chosen Elect to complete in this age. In fact, all the parables which have the phrase " the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on some aspect of the pathway to salvation. This pathway includes both the Wide Gate and the Narrow Gate. To pass through the gates, we need the Early and Latter Rain.

Joe
 
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zoidar

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Every person when they are judged will "pay the last penny". The last penny is the complete and utter destruction of our carnal nature. After it is destroyed, all that will be left is the new nature the Holy Spirit gives us. That is the ultimate purpose for Christ's judgment.

Is your idea that everyone will eventually be saved?
 
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FaithWillDo

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Is your idea that everyone will eventually be saved?

Dear zoidar,
Absolutely yes. The work of saving mankind is 100% the work of Christ. How can He fail? The Father sent Christ to save the world and if He doesn't, it would be a sin.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Overcoming mankind's "will" is no problem for Christ:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Mankind is going to be saved because it is God's "will" for it to happen. Mankind has no say in the matter.

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Christ made us subject to vanity without our permission and He will save us without our permission.

Rom 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

The verse below is pretty much saying the same thing as the one above:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Paul's conversion experience is the "pattern" (type) that Christ uses to save mankind. Did Paul have any say in the matter as to whether or not he wanted to be saved. No, he did not!

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

In order to understand the “pattern” (type), we must spiritually understand the steps of Paul’s conversion as recorded for us in Acts 9:3-19.

This first set of verses below “types” Paul’s time of being Called Out from the world. This is the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Acts 9:3-9 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

These first events which happened to Paul symbolize the process that we all must go through to be “called out from the world” (enter the Church).

When an individual is Called Out from the world to follow Christ, Christ will come to them suddenly and without invitation. We do not have the free will ability to choose Christ in our "marred" spiritual condition as is commonly taught. If we did, it would be "work". If Christ decides to come to a person in the present age, it is a spiritual event which happens "within" us (Luke 17:21). Christ in now "spirit" and cannot be seen with human eyes.

When Christ spiritually comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Holy Spirit, they immediately fall to the earth just as Paul did. The “earth” represents mankind’s carnality. The new believer has risen up out of the sea of humanity to dwell upon the earth. The “earth” symbolizes the new believer’s carnality which still remains. Paul's blindness represents his spiritual blindness.

Since the new believer is still carnally minded and spiritually blind upon receiving the Early Rain, they cannot recognize the “voice” which calls to them. They must rely on being told who the voice is. After being told that the voice is the voice of Jesus, Paul answers back to Christ as “Lord”. Since scripture says that no one can call Jesus “Lord” but by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:3), we know that this event happening to Paul is the Early Rain of the Spirit. Paul calls Him “Lord” but lacks the ability to know Him for himself. Christ remains hidden (veiled) from Paul’s understanding, just as He remains hidden to all who experience the Early Rain of the Spirit.
Paul then asks Christ “what wilt thou have me to do”? Because Paul remains carnally minded, he believes that he must “do something” to earn the Lord’s favor. The Lord answers him by saying to arise and go into the city. The “city” represents the Great City which is Sodom and Egypt. Once in the city, someone (ministers of Satan) there will tell him what he must do. At that point, the new believer becomes deceived and “falls away”.

From verse 7, we see that no one with Paul experienced what Paul did. This visitation by Christ is only for the person who has been “called out”. It is a spiritual event and happens “within” Paul.

After Paul stands up and opens his eyes, he “saw no man”. This blindness of Paul’s represents his spiritual blindness. Scripture goes on to say that Paul had to be led by the hand. This explains why a new believer readily follows the false doctrines presented to them in the church (the blind leading the blind). The new believer has no ability to follow Christ for themselves.

After Paul arrived in Damascus, verse 9 says that Paul remained blind and did not eat or drink for 3 days. Paul’s time of spiritual blindness and inability to eat the true bread from heaven or to drink the New Wine causes him to fall prey to Satan’s deceptions. He quickly “falls away” from faith and returns to “works” (2Thes 2:3). Because he rejects approaching Christ by faith alone, he commits the sin that leads to death. Now his new spiritual state is worse than his first when he was an unbeliever. He has become a Man of Sin under Satan’s influence.

This second set of verses below represents Paul’s conversion.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Here we are told that Paul is “chosen” regardless of His current fallen away state and that Paul will bear Christ’s name to the world. All of God’s Chosen vessels will likewise bear Christ’s name to this world.

In verse 17, Christ (symbolized by Ananias) comes to Paul a second time and heals his spiritual blindness and gives him the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Because Paul’s blindness is healed, Christ “appears” to Him. Paul no longer needs to be told who Christ is because he can now see Christ for himself. Paul can now start eating “meat” (truth).

Once Paul receives his nourishment from Christ, the brightness of Christ’s appearing (truth) destroys Paul’s religious carnal nature (the Great city Babylon/Sodom/Egypt/earthly Jerusalem) which taught him to approach God through Works of the Law.

Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Now that the Great City is destroyed within Paul, Paul is empowered by the Spirit to walk by faith in Christ (the New Wine/Blood of Christ), the true and narrow pathway that leads to God. He can now begin drinking the New Wine. The Man of Sin is now dead and Paul is “born again”. “Saul” is now given the new name of “Paul”, a child of God.

Paul's conversion in "type" will be experienced by all mankind someday. Once a person can understand this "type", they will understand the pathway to salvation. The Elect complete the pathway in this age and all others will complete it in the final age. Then God will be "all in all" and Christ will have completed the mission the Father gave Him.

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Joe
 
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Clare73

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Not sure how you connect that with "crucifying the Son of God again"?
But why would it be impossible to renew them again to repentance?
Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians who evidently were thinking of returning to Judaism, for whatever reason--persecution maybe, or of joining a Jewish sect, such as the one at the Qumran near the Dead Sea, or whatever.

The issue is that in leaving their Christian faith, they were rejecting Christ and the only sacrifice for their sin and, therefore, would die in their sin. Their continuing apostasy would be a continuing crucifying (killing) of Jesus all over again, and an inability to repent while in that apostasy, like the Jews who killed him not being able to repent while they were planning and killing him. If they reject the sacrifice of Christ, there is no sacrifice left for them (Hebrews 10:26), they sin against (reject) the remedy, for which there is no forgiveness (John 3:36).
 
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No. I'm saying I tend to think in terms of Paul saying those things, just by default, I guess, bc they sound so much like his way of explaining, the way he lays out his logic, to me. I don't know who wrote it, but I think it could have been Paul, yet there are ways he talked in the other books that are missing, too, so I don't know.
And then there is that Pauline closing. . .
 
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zoidar

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Dear zoidar,
Absolutely yes. The work of saving mankind is 100% the work of Christ. How can He fail? The Father sent Christ to save the world and if He doesn't, it would be a sin.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Overcoming mankind's "will" is no problem for Christ:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Mankind is going to be saved because it is God's "will" for it to happen. Mankind has no say in the matter.

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Christ made us subject to vanity without our permission and He will save us without our permission.

Rom 8:20-22 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

The verse below is pretty much saying the same thing as the one above:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Paul's conversion experience is the "pattern" (type) that Christ uses to save mankind. Did Paul have any say in the matter as to whether or not he wanted to be saved. No, he did not!

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

In order to understand the “pattern” (type), we must spiritually understand the steps of Paul’s conversion as recorded for us in Acts 9:3-19.

This first set of verses below “types” Paul’s time of being Called Out from the world. This is the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Acts 9:3-9 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

These first events which happened to Paul symbolize the process that we all must go through to be “called out from the world” (enter the Church).

When an individual is Called Out from the world to follow Christ, Christ will come to them suddenly and without invitation. We do not have the free will ability to choose Christ in our "marred" spiritual condition as is commonly taught. If we did, it would be "work". If Christ decides to come to a person in the present age, it is a spiritual event which happens "within" us (Luke 17:21). Christ in now "spirit" and cannot be seen with human eyes.

When Christ spiritually comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Holy Spirit, they immediately fall to the earth just as Paul did. The “earth” represents mankind’s carnality. The new believer has risen up out of the sea of humanity to dwell upon the earth. The “earth” symbolizes the new believer’s carnality which still remains. Paul's blindness represents his spiritual blindness.

Since the new believer is still carnally minded and spiritually blind upon receiving the Early Rain, they cannot recognize the “voice” which calls to them. They must rely on being told who the voice is. After being told that the voice is the voice of Jesus, Paul answers back to Christ as “Lord”. Since scripture says that no one can call Jesus “Lord” but by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1Cor 12:3), we know that this event happening to Paul is the Early Rain of the Spirit. Paul calls Him “Lord” but lacks the ability to know Him for himself. Christ remains hidden (veiled) from Paul’s understanding, just as He remains hidden to all who experience the Early Rain of the Spirit.
Paul then asks Christ “what wilt thou have me to do”? Because Paul remains carnally minded, he believes that he must “do something” to earn the Lord’s favor. The Lord answers him by saying to arise and go into the city. The “city” represents the Great City which is Sodom and Egypt. Once in the city, someone (ministers of Satan) there will tell him what he must do. At that point, the new believer becomes deceived and “falls away”.

From verse 7, we see that no one with Paul experienced what Paul did. This visitation by Christ is only for the person who has been “called out”. It is a spiritual event and happens “within” Paul.

After Paul stands up and opens his eyes, he “saw no man”. This blindness of Paul’s represents his spiritual blindness. Scripture goes on to say that Paul had to be led by the hand. This explains why a new believer readily follows the false doctrines presented to them in the church (the blind leading the blind). The new believer has no ability to follow Christ for themselves.

After Paul arrived in Damascus, verse 9 says that Paul remained blind and did not eat or drink for 3 days. Paul’s time of spiritual blindness and inability to eat the true bread from heaven or to drink the New Wine causes him to fall prey to Satan’s deceptions. He quickly “falls away” from faith and returns to “works” (2Thes 2:3). Because he rejects approaching Christ by faith alone, he commits the sin that leads to death. Now his new spiritual state is worse than his first when he was an unbeliever. He has become a Man of Sin under Satan’s influence.

This second set of verses below represents Paul’s conversion.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Here we are told that Paul is “chosen” regardless of His current fallen away state and that Paul will bear Christ’s name to the world. All of God’s Chosen vessels will likewise bear Christ’s name to this world.

In verse 17, Christ (symbolized by Ananias) comes to Paul a second time and heals his spiritual blindness and gives him the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Because Paul’s blindness is healed, Christ “appears” to Him. Paul no longer needs to be told who Christ is because he can now see Christ for himself. Paul can now start eating “meat” (truth).

Once Paul receives his nourishment from Christ, the brightness of Christ’s appearing (truth) destroys Paul’s religious carnal nature (the Great city Babylon/Sodom/Egypt/earthly Jerusalem) which taught him to approach God through Works of the Law.

Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Now that the Great City is destroyed within Paul, Paul is empowered by the Spirit to walk by faith in Christ (the New Wine/Blood of Christ), the true and narrow pathway that leads to God. He can now begin drinking the New Wine. The Man of Sin is now dead and Paul is “born again”. “Saul” is now given the new name of “Paul”, a child of God.

Paul's conversion in "type" will be experienced by all mankind someday. Once a person can understand this "type", they will understand the pathway to salvation. The Elect complete the pathway in this age and all others will complete it in the final age. Then God will be "all in all" and Christ will have completed the mission the Father gave Him.

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Joe

Hi Joe!

It seems your belief in is not that uncommon today. I don't share it, but won't argue against it at this time.

May Christ reveal his truth in our hearts! Amen!
 
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zoidar

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Hebrews was written to Jewish Christians who evidently were thinking of returning to Judaism, for whatever reason--persecution maybe, or of joining a Jewish sect, such as the one at the Qumran near the Dead Sea, or whatever.

The issue is that in leaving their Christian faith, they were rejecting Christ and the only sacrifice for their sin and, therefore, would die in their sin. Their continuing apostasy would be a continuing crucifying (killing) of Jesus all over again, and inability to repent in that apostasy, like the Jews who killed him not being able to repent while they were killing him. If they reject the sacrifice of Christ, there is no sacrifice left for them (Hebrews 10:26), they sin against (reject) the remedy, for which there is no forgiveness (John 3:36).

Thanks for sharing your view, sis!
 
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fhansen

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What do you make of this?

For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
— Hebrews 6:4-6


My thinking goes this way: Since they have received Christ and been resurrected with him in baptism, by now denying him again, it's like they put Christ back on the cross.

I like to hear your views and other possible options.

Christ love!
If we live and act unjustly, against love of God and neighbor, if we sin grievously and persistently, then we mock God and the sacrifice of His Son; we’ve compromised and lost our state of justice, our justified state and the reconciliation between ourselves and God that Jesus came to accomplish. That’s been the continuous teaching of the Church from day one.

The Church has also taught, however, that we can always repent, with a true change of heart, and God’s forgiveness will always be there to admit us back into His fold.
 
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FaithWillDo

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Hi Joe!

It seems your belief in is not that uncommon today. I don't share it, but won't argue against it at this time.

May Christ reveal his truth in our hearts! Amen!

Dear zoidar,
Keep your eyes open to it when you read scripture. It is amazing how much you can see if you are looking.

Also, keep this in mind: Since we are saved by the works of Christ, and our works are dead, then why can't Christ save all mankind? Satan teaches us that the reason mankind can't all be saved is because we must add in a component of our own works into the salvation equation. And if we have to add our own works, then our salvation is not up to God any longer. It is up to us. This belief system is a "works" based system that is completely rejected by Christ. "Works" are a teaching from Satan and when we bow to it, we bow to Satan. Christ said we can't serve two masters. If we try to, we will "fall away" and be broken. Once a believer realizes that Satan has been deceiving them, it is a sign that Christ is working in their heart to give them the power to "come out of her my people":

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Take a hard look at Paul's conversion. Paul was saved and He contributed nothing. He merely responded to the spiritual work that Christ did in his heart.

Look at these two key verses:

Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

In our created spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition we have from birth, NO ONE will seek out Christ or make a decision to accept Him as Lord. It is impossible, especially since we cannot even understand Him.

It is for that reason, Christ comes to us FIRST and gives us the Holy Spirit without our asking Him to do so. And Christ doesn't even ask us for permission, He just does it. When a person makes that decision to accept Christ, it is the evidence that Christ has done His work within them already. Their decision to accept Christ is a product of Christ's work. That is the way Paul was saved. Paul had no choice in the matter.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

As the above verse says, unless Christ gives us the Holy Spirit, we CANNOT call Him "Lord". And once Christ does this work within us, no one can call Jesus accursed.

Paul hated Christ with a religious passion but that all changed in an instant. Do you think any other person would do differently?

We are saved by Christ at the time of His choosing. We have no say in the matter. When Christ is finished with His work, all mankind will be saved.

Joe
 
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Mark Quayle

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It is amazing how much you can see if you are looking.
Just an observation, here. As unbelievers, particularly those who consider themselves scientific/logical atheists or agnostics, like to say, it is error-prone for a person to go looking for evidences to prove a thesis; the person will interpret what they see as evidence for their thesis, whether it actually is or not —'confirmation bias'. (Of course, in such a context they will be careful to show the difference between this danger, and what scientists mainly do, searching to find whether a 'hypothesis' (NOT 'thesis') is true.)

Nevertheless, it is true, and something that is almost impossible to avoid, that people interpret everything they hear/read/see/experience according to their worldview and presuppositions.
 
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Yeshua John 3:16

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The last months of my life are exactly what this passage describes, I dropped out and in the last days I feel that I am slowly returning to the grace of Jesus, but it is very difficult. Fight against evil every day, abiding in the grace of Jesus. I let go of these few months and it was a terrible mistake, I am ashamed, but the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sins. I have apologized to Jesus and I am clean.
 
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Clare73

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If we live and act unjustly, against love of God and neighbor, if we sin grievously and persistently, then we mock God and the sacrifice of His Son; we’ve compromised and lost our state of justice, our justified state and the reconciliation between ourselves and God that Jesus came to accomplish. That’s been the continuous teaching of the Church from day one.

The Church has also taught, however, that we can always repent, with a true change of heart, and God’s forgiveness will always be there to admit us back into His fold.
Are you saying Catholicism disagrees with Hebrews 6:6?
 
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fhansen

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Are you saying Catholicism disagrees with Hebrews 6:6?
I'm saying one must understand Scripture in light of it's larger context, not by a passage or two that we may misunderstand, along with the way the church in the east and west received and taught the faith since day one.
"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:8-9
 
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Clare73

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I'm saying one must understand Scripture in light of it's larger context, not by a passage or two that we may misunderstand, along with the way the church in the east and west received and taught the faith since day one.
"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:8-9
Does not Hebrews 6:6 state that is what they cannot do as long as they are in rejection of Christ?
 
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FaithWillDo

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Just an observation, here. As unbelievers, particularly those who consider themselves scientific/logical atheists or agnostics, like to say, it is error-prone for a person to go looking for evidences to prove a thesis; the person will interpret what they see as evidence for their thesis, whether it actually is or not —'confirmation bias'. (Of course, in such a context they will be careful to show the difference between this danger, and what scientists mainly do, searching to find whether a 'hypothesis' (NOT 'thesis') is true.)

Nevertheless, it is true, and something that is almost impossible to avoid, that people interpret everything they hear/read/see/experience according to their worldview and presuppositions.

Dear Mark,
You are "spot on" with your comments. All one has to do is look at how Believers and Unbelievers view the physical evidence for creation in the geologic record. Believers see the evidence as proof of Genesis being literal history which only goes back about 6000 years. Unbelievers see the same evidence as supporting a natural creation with it being billions of years old. Both groups see the same evidence but their world paradigm dictates how they apply the evidence.

Of course, I understand creation as it is literally presented in scripture (6 days of creation which happened about 6000 years ago, along with a literal Noah's flood and tower of Babel).

I will say this, Early Rain believers, even though they are spiritually blind, have a good understand of the literal history that is presented in scripture. They just can't understand what those same events spiritually represent.

This same effect of differing "paradigms" is also evident with Christians who try to understand scripture. The Early Rain Christians (those who only "called out") are left spiritually blind and have a paradigm that comes from this world (Satan). They understand scripture in a very different way than does a believer who has received the Latter Rain and has their spiritual blindness healed. Once a believer has their blindness healed, their paradigm changes. Instead of seeing Christ in the flesh (carnally), they now see Him in the spirit (spiritually).

When this change of paradigms happens to a believer, it is said to be like earthquakes, thunder, lightning and trumpets. The sun is darkened and the moon turns to blood. It is a monumental moment in that person's life. They no longer receive their light from the world (sun and moon). They now receive it from the brightness of Christ appearing to them.

All the End-time verses that speak of the second coming of Christ, are using physical symbols that represent spiritual truths (things that happen within us). When Christ comes to us, He brings destruction to our Man of Sin/Old Man and but also brings life. This is when an Early Rain believer is converted and saved. It is a change of paradigms. It is an amazing event.

I received the Latter Rain on Oct 8th, 2005 (my testimony is posted in my profile) and it turned my life upside down. Nearly everything that I believed to be true before in scripture, I quickly found to be lies from Satan. Matthew 13:33 is so true:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All Early Rain believers eat this leavened loaf of "bread". As the parable says, the leaven is "hidden" in the loaf and all who eat it, do not realize that it is leavened. The leaven is so powerful, it taints the WHOLE loaf.

This is an amazing parable and hard to believe, but it is absolutely true. When one understands scripture with a world paradigm, they shape all the verses to match that paradigm. That is why a person can read verses that very clearly teach that Christ will save all mankind but after they twist and shape the verses, there is no truth left in them. Their worldly paradigm causes them to readily accept the leavened bread as the truth of Christ. It is pleasing to their carnal nature.

Because all Early Rain believers (including those who are "chosen") eat this leavened loaf of bread, it becomes necessary for Christ to come a second time to His chosen Elect. When He comes, they hear is call to "come out of her my people".

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Mystery Babylon the Great is the religious component of our carnal nature. It is what produces the Man of Sin within us. That part of our carnal nature is what follows the ways of Satan. When Christ comes back to us with the Latter Rain, that is what He immediately destroys. If it wasn't quickly destroyed, we could not be converted. But it is destroyed quickly, in "one hour", and when we stand back from that great city, we see the smoke of her burning (judgment).

Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Once this religious aspect of our carnal nature is destroyed, we will begin approaching Christ by faith alone. We will never serve two masters again. We are now "born again'.

From this point, Christ starts judging the chosen believer's Old Man (the portion left of their carnal nature). This is called the "thousand years" reign of Christ. It is a spiritual reign from within each believer who has received the Latter Rain. The judgment of the Old Man is a slow process (crucified with Christ) and can take many years to complete. But Christ will complete that judgment within a chosen believer before they physically die. After they have "paid the last penny" and have been "ground to powder" (their carnal nature that is), Satan will be loosed for a short season to test them. And just as Christ passed that test in the wilderness when He fasted for 40 days, so will His Elect. Once this is accomplished, they are considered "overcomers" of this world and are ready to be glorified with a new spiritual body similar to Christ's spiritual body.

What I have stated above is all taught in scripture and is called "end-time prophecy". However, most Christians believe that it is still unfulfilled prophecy and will only be fulfilled out in the world rather than spiritually within a believer. The reason it is misunderstood by most Christians is because they still view scripture with a world paradigm. Instead of seeing the verses as spiritual and inward, they see them as literal and outward.

However, the Word of God is spiritual and is presented to us in Christ's spiritual language. Christ uses physical symbols which have meanings different than what man's wisdom teaches (1Cor 2:13). Here are just a few examples of Christ's spiritual language:

A SWORD is the Word of God.
FIRE is Christ's judgment.
RAIN/WATER is the Holy Spirit.
CLOSET is our inner heart, our innermost self.
DOGS are Gentiles
SWINE are people who are Called Out.
DARKNESS is spiritual blindness, a place far removed from the truth and righteous character of God.
EARTH represents mankind's carnality, where Called Out believers dwell.

Numbers in scripture also have a spiritual meaning:

Tenth: God’s Elect, healed, walking by faith
One: God the Father
Two: The Elect, witnesses of God
Three: Complete, full measure of God’s work, a complete spiritual process
Four: the Whole of something
Five: Pathway to God, Man’s work or Grace through Faith
Six: Mankind, short of perfection
Seven: Perfection
Eight: New Spiritual State
Nine: walking by works, unthankful
Ten: Completeness of the Flesh, Man of Sin
Eleven: True apostles, chosen, full of New Wine
Twelve: Kingdom of Heaven

This is a very short list and just touches on a few of the spiritual terms shown in scripture. Until a person has a good understanding of them, they are not going to understand scripture.

Christ speaks in this spiritual language to keep His truth concealed from all but His Elect who have had their spiritual blindness healed. This event is the second coming of Christ and is when their world paradigm is destroyed.

All this happens by the work of Christ within a chosen believer. Mankind cannot do this spiritual work themselves. All that mankind can do is try to make our outward appearance seem righteous by our own "works". But Christ views this outward appearance that comes from "works" as "filthy rags". When Christ does His work within us, He will cloth us in righteousness (faith, Holy Spirit).

All mankind must wait on the Lord to do His work within them. He is the only ONE who can accomplish this great spiritual work of saving us.

Joe
 
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Mark Quayle

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Dear Mark,
You are "spot on" with your comments. All one has to do is look at how Believers and Unbelievers view the physical evidence for creation in the geologic record. Believers see the evidence as proof of Genesis being literal history which only goes back about 6000 years. Unbelievers see the same evidence as supporting a natural creation with it being billions of years old. Both groups see the same evidence but their world paradigm dictates how they apply the evidence.

Of course, I understand creation as it is literally presented in scripture (6 days of creation which happened about 6000 years ago, along with a literal Noah's flood and tower of Babel).

I will say this, Early Rain believers, even though they are spiritually blind, have a good understand of the literal history that is presented in scripture. They just can't understand what those same events spiritually represent.

This same effect of differing "paradigms" is also evident with Christians who try to understand scripture. The Early Rain Christians (those who only "called out") are left spiritually blind and have a paradigm that comes from this world (Satan). They understand scripture in a very different way than does a believer who has received the Latter Rain and has their spiritual blindness healed. Once a believer has their blindness healed, their paradigm changes. Instead of seeing Christ in the flesh (carnally), they now see Him in the spirit (spiritually).

When this change of paradigms happens to a believer, it is said to be like earthquakes, thunder, lightning and trumpets. The sun is darkened and the moon turns to blood. It is a monumental moment in that person's life. They no longer receive their light from the world (sun and moon). They now receive it from the brightness of Christ appearing to them.

All the End-time verses that speak of the second coming of Christ, are using physical symbols that represent spiritual truths (things that happen within us). When Christ comes to us, He brings destruction to our Man of Sin/Old Man and but also brings life. This is when an Early Rain believer is converted and saved. It is a change of paradigms. It is an amazing event.

I received the Latter Rain on Oct 8th, 2005 (my testimony is posted in my profile) and it turned my life upside down. Nearly everything that I believed to be true before in scripture, I quickly found to be lies from Satan. Matthew 13:33 is so true:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All Early Rain believers eat this leavened loaf of "bread". As the parable says, the leaven is "hidden" in the loaf and all who eat it, do not realize that it is leavened. The leaven is so powerful, it taints the WHOLE loaf.

This is an amazing parable and hard to believe, but it is absolutely true. When one understands scripture with a world paradigm, they shape all the verses to match that paradigm. That is why a person can read verses that very clearly teach that Christ will save all mankind but after they twist and shape the verses, there is no truth left in them. Their worldly paradigm causes them to readily accept the leavened bread as the truth of Christ. It is pleasing to their carnal nature.

Because all Early Rain believers (including those who are "chosen") eat this leavened loaf of bread, it becomes necessary for Christ to come a second time to His chosen Elect. When He comes, they hear is call to "come out of her my people".

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, come out of her my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Mystery Babylon the Great is the religious component of our carnal nature. It is what produces the Man of Sin within us. That part of our carnal nature is what follows the ways of Satan. When Christ comes back to us with the Latter Rain, that is what He immediately destroys. If it wasn't quickly destroyed, we could not be converted. But it is destroyed quickly, in "one hour", and when we stand back from that great city, we see the smoke of her burning (judgment).

Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Once this religious aspect of our carnal nature is destroyed, we will begin approaching Christ by faith alone. We will never serve two masters again. We are now "born again'.

From this point, Christ starts judging the chosen believer's Old Man (the portion left of their carnal nature). This is called the "thousand years" reign of Christ. It is a spiritual reign from within each believer who has received the Latter Rain. The judgment of the Old Man is a slow process (crucified with Christ) and can take many years to complete. But Christ will complete that judgment within a chosen believer before they physically die. After they have "paid the last penny" and have been "ground to powder" (their carnal nature that is), Satan will be loosed for a short season to test them. And just as Christ passed that test in the wilderness when He fasted for 40 days, so will His Elect. Once this is accomplished, they are considered "overcomers" of this world and are ready to be glorified with a new spiritual body similar to Christ's spiritual body.

What I have stated above is all taught in scripture and is called "end-time prophecy". However, most Christians believe that it is still unfulfilled prophecy and will only be fulfilled out in the world rather than spiritually within a believer. The reason it is misunderstood by most Christians is because they still view scripture with a world paradigm. Instead of seeing the verses as spiritual and inward, they see them as literal and outward.

However, the Word of God is spiritual and is presented to us in Christ's spiritual language. Christ uses physical symbols which have meanings different than what man's wisdom teaches (1Cor 2:13). Here are just a few examples of Christ's spiritual language:

A SWORD is the Word of God.
FIRE is Christ's judgment.
RAIN/WATER is the Holy Spirit.
CLOSET is our inner heart, our innermost self.
DOGS are Gentiles
SWINE are people who Called Out.
DARKNESS is spiritual blindness, a place far removed from the truth and righteous character of God.
EARTH represents mankind's carnality, where Called Out believers dwell.

Numbers in scripture also have a spiritual meaning:

Tenth: God’s Elect, healed, thanks to God, walk by faith
One: God the Father
Two: The Elect, witnesses of God
Three: Complete, full measure of God’s work, a complete spiritual process
Four: Whole measure
Five: Pathway to God, Man’s work or Grace through Faith
Six: Mankind, short of perfection
Seven: Perfection
Eight: New Spiritual State
Nine: walk by works, unthankful
Ten: Completeness of the Flesh, Man of Sin
Eleven: True apostles, chosen, full of New Wine
Twelve: Kingdom of Heaven

This is a very short list and just touches on a few of the spiritual terms shown in scripture. Until a person has a good understanding of them, they are not going to understand scripture.

Christ speaks in this spiritual language to keep His truth concealed from all but His Elect who have had their spiritual blindness healed. This event is the second coming of Christ and is when their world paradigm is destroyed.

All this happens by the work of Christ within a chosen believer. Mankind cannot do this spiritual work themselves. All mankind can do is try to make our outward appearance seem righteous by our own "works". But Christ views this outward appearance that comes from "works" has "filthy rags". When Christ does His work within us, He will cloth us in righteousness (faith, Holy Spirit).

All mankind must wait on the Lord to do His work within them. He is the only ONE who can accomplish this great spiritual work of saving mankind.

Joe
Haha! I'd like to watch you and prophecy_uk get into it concerning Hebrews 6. (No, I'm not trying to compare you to him, but to point out your differing worldviews.)

1 John 1: "8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Read your own quote, let me help you in what it says, that you have quoted, no need to cover your ears to every other scripture, they go together in harmony.

We confess our sins, and Christ purifies us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

All unrighteousness is sin, what we get purified from, then, being born again, the purification is, they sin not, the wicked one cant touch them any longer, and they are kept from him/sins.

Others, who know the judgement of God, ( NBB) just quoted some of it, are given over by God to a reprobate mind, they remain filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, coveteous, they are full of envy ( they hate the good/ righteous way being taught) they do debate as Mark Quayle is all these examples, are backbiters, hate Gods Holiness, despiteful, proud, invent evil imaginations, show they are disobedient to parents/wife, confirmed covenant breakers of love which works no ill to your neighbour ever, have no natural affection and are the unmerciful..

Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Continues on, in next chapter of Romans, all are rendered according to our deeds, continuance( not breaking) in well doing seek for honour, but the contentious ( Mark Quayle and friends many are predicted deceiving) do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness ( not purified from all unrighteousness)..

Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,


Now they do not let themselves be instruments of unrighteousness, no sin, but are instruments of righteousness to God..

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.


Unbelievers are unrighteousness, and believers/righteousness, has no communion with their darkness ( why 1 John 1 says we cannot fellowship with God and walk in any darkness)..

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

This is satan at work lying to the deceived and deceiver, it is all deceivableness of unrighteousness( making them believe they can do hatred/unrighteousness/sin)..

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Spoken again, and who does not take heed to these warnings of satan at work in all in this world but a fool and despiteful persons ?

But the warning is, take heed, the evil heart of unbelief ( as many are deceived and never were cleaned of all unrighteousness/born again)

They are departed from God, and refuse to be exhorted, being hardened through that deceitfulness of sin ( the devil at work in all now)..

Hebrews 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.


Again, the predictions are, they knew the way of righteousness( with no unrighteousness in it) but turned from the Holy commandment ( t go and sin no more/love your neighbour as yourself)

It is also described, why they are cleaned/purified, but do not remain cleaned of all unrighteousness/purified, because once washed, they return to their filth..

2 Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.


The calling ( to not turn away from) is Holy, as obedient and not in the former lusts.

Because as told earlier, every man will be judged according by every mans work, so they not only obey, but they also fear..

1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Because we were redeemed with purity, cleaned of all unrighteousness/purified not by corruptible, with with the precious blood of Christ, without spot..

1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:


Now we see we are purified in our souls in obeying the truth ( done through the Spirit which does no disobey itself) it is sincere love of the brother with a pure/purified heart, which is them born again ( as told earlier) continuing without unrighteousness/sin done on them, or it is in its filth and impure..

1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Now, Mark Quayle, and all who believe/speak likewise, with ignore, contradict, resist, and continue to blaspheme, as that is what we are told, is going on in all of the world ( no surprise and no effect)

They again as testified, give to commandments of men ( to sin is their doctrine) and that is a lie, that turns from the truth ( all as testified here)

But, if they believed their one and only quote, of being purified ( from all unrighteousness) they would see that all things are then pure, to the pure, instead they as also told earlier, are the unbeliever, and nothing can be pure for them then, they have a defiled mind and conscience, they insist they believe in God( Christ) but at the same time deny Him directly, in evil works of abomination, the disobedience they say you do too, and unto every good work instead are reprobate..

Titus 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
 
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FaithWillDo

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Haha! I'd like to watch you and prophecy_uk get into it concerning Hebrews 6. (No, I'm not trying to compare you to him, but to point out your differing worldviews.)

Dear Mark,
I read prophecy uk's post and I saw nothing wrong in his comments. He really doesn't say a lot so I'm not sure what point He is trying to make.

For the most part, the verses He quotes are comparing "fallen away" Christians or unbelievers with those who are walking by faith. Maybe He doesn't understand what causes the fallen away believers to behave and believe as they do but I didn't see anything He said to be untrue, at least on the surface.

Joe
 
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Mark Quayle

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Dear Mark,
I read prophecy uk's post and I saw nothing wrong in his comments. He really doesn't say a lot so I'm not sure what point He is trying to make.

For the most part, the verses He quotes are comparing "fallen away" Christians or unbelievers with those who are walking by faith. Maybe He doesn't understand what causes the fallen away believers to behave and believe as they do but I didn't see anything He said to be untrue, at least on the surface.

Joe
Yep. You're heading there. His reasoning concerning why one might fall away, and yours, are very different, not to mention the end result you claim concerning the souls of those who don't walk in the Spirit. The post of his I quoted was typical, but not representative in full.
 
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