Good deeds vs Sinning

prophecy_uk said:

"But believers can on rare occasion make mistakes whereby they need to be restored by confessing and forsaking their sin."

yes, you used the word stumble occasionally, yet it is against Gods word, pity you used the wrong word isnt it.



"Peter denied the Lord three times, but he was restored. "


Peter was not given the Holy Spirit yet till the Lord was glorified..

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)



Then when the Spirit is given, this applies:

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


After Christ rose, Christ allowed Peter to confess Him three times, because Christ had made peter deny Him by scattering the sheep..


John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.




"Peter was rebuked by the apostle Paul. But Peter wrote Scripture. "


Peter was part of the revelation by the Lord of one new man in Christ, before it was illegal for a Jew to be with a Gentile:

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;




"The apostle Paul made a mistake in Acts 21 in going back to the Old Law"


Maybe the mistake is yours Bible Highlighter, to ignore that God had to reveal to the Jews of this new way to be with the Gentiles, and the same happened here again, the Jews had offence and required Paul to help them out of that offence, Paul helped them, which is no mistake, showing no offence to the Jews as we are taught, and that for the Gentiles, they did not have to do any such things..

Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

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Also, have you never sinned or made a mistake after accepting the Lord Jesus Christ?
Have you ever gotten angry wrongfully?
Have you never slipped in briefly looking upon a woman in lust?
Have you ever did anything sinful that the Bible condemns since being a Christian?
Do you perfectly obey the two greatest commandments? Do you hear that the Lord our God is one God and that we are to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength? Do you love your neighbor as yourself?
Would you want a person to speak to you exactly in the same exact way you have spoken to me so far? Would you consider that loving of your brother?

Jesus agrees with the lawyer that to love God and to love your neighbor is to inherit eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).

prophecy_uk said:

"But believers can on rare occasion make mistakes whereby they need to be restored by confessing and forsaking their sin."

yes, you used the word stumble occasionally, yet it is against Gods word, pity you used the wrong word isnt it.



"Peter denied the Lord three times, but he was restored. "


Peter was not given the Holy Spirit yet till the Lord was glorified..

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)



Then when the Spirit is given, this applies:

Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

2 Timothy 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:


After Christ rose, Christ allowed Peter to confess Him three times, because Christ had made peter deny Him by scattering the sheep..


John 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.




"Peter was rebuked by the apostle Paul. But Peter wrote Scripture. "


Peter was part of the revelation by the Lord of one new man in Christ, before it was illegal for a Jew to be with a Gentile:

Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;




"The apostle Paul made a mistake in Acts 21 in going back to the Old Law"


Maybe the mistake is yours Bible Highlighter, to ignore that God had to reveal to the Jews of this new way to be with the Gentiles, and the same happened here again, the Jews had offence and required Paul to help them out of that offence, Paul helped them, which is no mistake, showing no offence to the Jews as we are taught, and that for the Gentiles, they did not have to do any such things..

Acts 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

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Also, what do you make of the incident with the Corinthians? We see that the Corinthians were justifying the sins of strife and envy in 1 Corinthians 3:3 (which are sins Paul condemns in Galatians 5:19-21), and Paul warns them that if they defile the temple God will destroy them (1 Corinthians 3:17).

But we see in Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians that they repented of these sins (i.e. They sought forgiveness with the Lord Jesus (See: 2 Corinthians 12:19-21, and 2 Corinthians 7:10).

@prophecy_uk

Also, what do you make of 2 Corinthians 7:1, and Romans 8:13? It suggests a progressive Sanctification and not a zero to hero overnight thing. Granted, I am not saying that a few believers may not be able to be like an Enoch, but even the apostles made mistakes. This does not mean we as believers should not overcome grievous sin. We must. But it takes time for believers to learn and grow.

renniks said:

I already am. I still sin. I think you do too.

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[I'm sorry you believe that but don't listen to man listen to God's word.] (1 John 3:6;9-10) 6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (Matthew 7:18) 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (Romans 6:7;10) 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. [ Mixed up religion has got it all wrong and Gods word can't be any clearer on the truth.]

Bible Highlighter: "So the apostle Paul was in error in rebuking Peter?
So then Paul made a mistake if that is the case."




Read the words, Peter was to be blamed for what he had done, and Peter spoke no words of defence, no words at all, as it was already corrected by God kin a revelation.

Hence why Paul has to sum it up for all the deceivers who claim the bible is their guide, when it is not..



Galatians 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,




The part you seem to have no interest in, is how before the revelation came to Peter, all the Jews believed it was unlawful for a Jew to keep company with a man of another nation, which made it that tricky situation, for Peter to try to spend time with both, as it were, secretly.., the testimony below answers for you so called "believers" that God showed Peter, the Gentiles are now cleansed, and how Peter and the Jews are permitted to remain with them, and not hiding away any longer..



Acts 10:28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.





Bible Highlighter: "So Paul says he wants others to become what he has become, except for the chains he placed upon himself by his wrong decision in disobeying the Spirit in going to Jerusalem (Which led to his going back to the Old Law wrongfully)."




The problem for you Bible Highlighter, is you are very weak now, that I can show your weak attempts at examples, by reminded anyone who reads, of how Gods purposes work, so there is no accusation left to be made, by people like yourself.


The tribute collectors of Capernaum, asked Peter if money is given by Jesus ? peter said yes, you might say it was a wrong answer, but see how it turned out to be right, when God is involved, to not leave His followers in any wrong at all, and to confuse the false accusers/hypocritical blasphemers.


Jesus first taught Peter how the children are free, (and Christ paying for them with His life is full payment.)


But there is a further answer, because you are involved in the world around you, you have to sometimes participate in their customs. To avoid offence, is why this was shown by the Lord Jesus Christ to be done by us..



Romans 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


Matthew 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.



Now, with those teachings known, the situation comes up for Paul( it was Pauls time to go and why he did not protect his life as he testified, it is not a mistake of Paul going to Jerusalem, it was...THE WILL OF THE LORD TO BE DONE( which Bile Highlighter cant see, cant acknowledge, can only deny/denying Christ)..




Acts 21:13 Then Paul answered, What mean ye to weep and to break mine heart? for I am ready not to be bound only, but also to die at Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.
14 And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done.




Then it is all the elders and the thousands of Jews, offended if Paul does not join them only one time in their custom.

Even Jesus showed joining in with the custom of giving, to avoid offence and joined in Himself, so how do you expect Apostle Paul, to let the offence took by the thousands of Jew believers remain, and not help them as told...TO WALK AFTER THE CUSTOMS..


Acts 21:17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.



Above we heard of custom unto custom is due, a requirement was due, to avoid the offence on the newly in the faith and weaker conscience of the thousands of Jew believers at Jerusalem, and also all the elders at Jerusalem required this for them.


The Apostle did what edified others, to make peace with them and for them, it is not good to do what causes your weak brother to be offended, for meat they did not destroy the work of God.


If they eat and drink, it is to be for the glory of God, this is not set laws as Bible Highlighter claimed and pretends he is not a believer in. This is the law of righteousness, to give none offence, to the Jews, as Paul pleased all men in ALL THINGS, not seeking for him, but for their profit, that they may be saved...

The Jews witnessed how Paul lives up to these words, and Bible Highlighter accuses this as a mistake ( his mistakes are to not do all what God says, none of it).. and to the Jews believer, this is and was, and remained to be their custom..



Romans 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.



For the ones who contradict and blaspheme the word of God, accusing the Apostles of the Lord, they are loved by open rebuke...


Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.


2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

2 Timothy 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,







Bible Highlighter: "Also, what do you make of the incident with the Corinthians?"



Follow the thread, how in 2 Corinthians 6, the enlarged heart of the Apostles following in the light with no darkness or stumbling, show to the Corinthians they need to be also enlarged in the heart as they lacked.


2 Corinthians 7, continues of course, it is the next page of this same letter, (they did not magically transform in a moment,) how they required to be cleansed from all filthiness ( not yet confessed and repented as in 1 John 1 and to fellowship when in the light with no darkness)


Again, the Apostles had defrauded no man, no wrong, no corruption, not spoke to condemn them, but still exhorting them as they still had not repented.


The Corinthians we see, had desire to do right, and now it is made clear to the Corinthians( and to you and your friends now Bile Highlighter) how Godly sorrow is clearing of ourselves, as spoke in the first words of this chapter, for those Corinthians to cleanse themselves from all filthiness of the flesh, to perfect the holiness in the fear of God..



2 Corinthians 6:11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
2 Receive us; we have wronged no man, we have corrupted no man, we have defrauded no man.
3 I speak not this to condemn you: for I have said before, that ye are in our hearts to die and live with you.

2 Corinthians 7:7 And not by his coming only, but by the consolation wherewith he was comforted in you, when he told us your earnest desire, your mourning, your fervent mind toward me; so that I rejoiced the more.
8 For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.




Your mistake Bible Highlighter, is to not return from your vomit, of accusing the Lords Apostles, when God has predicted the evil ones at the end perilous days, are false accusers of despising those that are good. How empty you are to not see you are answered and that you cant hide from the accusing on the Lords Holy Apostles that you were appointed to do, your wise move would be, to know you are revealed.


Is Bible Highlighter speaking evil of dignities, when he is accusing the Lords Holy Apostles of being mistake/sin makers, has he answer excuse, or this was predicted by the many deceivers who rise up at the end of the world, now. and supporting being defiled "on occasion" but is REBUKED on all, as I rebuked all the deceivers on this forum quickly..


Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Bible Highlighter said:

Dear Zoidar:

Thank you for being kind in your reply. May God’s grace and goodness shine upon you today (even if we may not agree on everything exactly).

Anyways, I agree with you that 1 John 1:8 is refuting the false gnostic belief that basically says sin is an illusion or non-existent. Well done for recognizing that, brother. However, I don’t believe 1 John 1:9 is referring to Initial Salvation. Please hear me out. First, the apostle John is addressing already saved believers which includes himself when he uses the word “we” in 1 John 1:9. I believe John was warning the brethren of their false belief of thinking sin is non-existent, but John is talking to believers who already accepted Christ and His grace and sought forgiveness with the Lord. Second, the apostle John says, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” (1 John 2:19). This means the gnostics heard the same message of salvation from the apostles, and they were even sent out by them, but they did not receive it whereby they later had shown by their false belief of Gnosticism that they did not regard sin as something that needed to be confessed because they thought sin was an illusion or non-existent. Three, 1 John 2:1 says to: “sin not,” but John basically says that if we happen to do so, we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ. This ties in with Hebrews 4:16 in boldly coming to the throne of grace and finding mercy in time of need. I believe 1 John 2:1 points back to 1 John 1:9. I see 1 John 1:9 as referring to confessing known sin that we are able to confess. I believe that by also praying the Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-11) as a general outline from the heart, and not mindlessly reciting a script, it covers any unknown sin we may have in our lives. Meaning, a believer will ask the Lord to forgive them for any unknown sin in their lives in their own words.



I don’t believe the brethren needed to be re-schooled on Initial Salvation, but they needed to know how to deal with sin if it ever cropped up in their lives. For King David confessed of his sins and was seeking forgiveness with God and he was already a man of God who worked by the power of God by taking down Goliath. But David needed to confess of his sins in order to be forgiven of them. A plain reading of Psalms 51 makes this clear that he was looking for forgiveness and to be restored back with God. For generally forgiveness is tied to salvation in the Bible, and David was seeking forgiveness. Also, Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. This Proverb is written to the Jew who was already a believer in God and not a Gentile that needed to be saved.

I believe the Bible teaches that repentance is just another way of saying to seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. Why is this important in regards to 1 John 1:9?

We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10. One point of the parable is that the prodigal son was restored back to his father by seeking forgiveness with him. His father said he was “dead” and he is “alive again,” and this all changed when the prodigal son had desired to seek forgiveness with his father.

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If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
— 1 John 1:8-2:1

Thanks for the blessing!

I think John is saying: If we sin and say we have no sin then the truth is not in us. If we sin and confess our sins God is faithful and forgives us our sins.

The Gnostics do just that, sin and say they have no sin.

I just think the idea of confessing for the sake of confessing, to be on the safe side, is wrong. We are not to sin, like John says, but if we do sin then we have an Advocate. We are not to live in regular sin.

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
— 1 John 3:4

zoidar said:

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
— 1 John 1:8-2:1

Thanks for the blessing!

I think John is saying: If we sin and say we have no sin then the truth is not in us. If we sin and confess our sins God is faithful and forgives us our sins.

The Gnostics do just that, sin and say they have no sin.

I just think the idea of confessing for the sake of confessing, to be on the safe side, is wrong. We are not to sin, like John says, but if we do sin then we have an Advocate. We are not to live in regular sin.

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
— 1 John 3:4

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I agree with your interpretation on 1 John 1:8. I also don’t believe in confessing some sin that you know you did not commit (i.e. an imaginary sin). I am referring to the part of the Lord’s Prayer.


Notice verse 12. It says forgive us our debts. Other translations say, forgive us our sins, or forgive us our wrongs. I take this as sins that do not lead unto death.

“Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.” (Psalms 19:12).

In other words, I don't believe all sin is the same. I believe there are sins not unto death, and sins unto death (1 John 5:16-17). Jesus described to us the difference between death sins vs. non-death sins in Matthew 5:22.


The words in blue above are non-death sins because they are punishment in earthly courts (which is not death). The words in red above is a death sin because it is punishment in hellfire in the afterlife (which leads to the second death).

So what I am trying to say is as the Psalmist did to God. “Cleanse me from my secret faults.” Non-death sins or sins that do not lead to the second death (i.e. the Lake of Fire). It is the same with the Lord’s Prayer. Forgive us our debts. Our faults. Minor transgressions or imperfections of our character that does not exactly condemn us. For obviously if a believer committed murder, or adultery they would not be praying to the Lord trying to figure out if they did something wrong. God would of course convict a person of murder or adultery if that believer is not passed feeling whereby their heart has been hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (See: Hebrews 3:13). A believer needs to confess of known sins that lead to spiritual death, hellfire, or condemnation of one’s soul. If not, they are not playing ball on God’s terms. So if a believer committed adultery, and they did not confess of that sin, and they died shortly thereafter, I believe they are condemned by God because they have no remorse over their sin and they did not repent.

To repent is to seek forgiveness with God, and the natural fruits of repentance is to do good and to live a holy life unto the Lord (Thereby magnifying His grace). For John the Baptist said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Matthew 3:8). Obviously the fruit (fruit of repentance) is not the same thing as the tree (repentance).

In Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

Jesus basically said in Luke 13:3 to repent or perish.
So I see 1 John 1:9 as in reference to what king David did. He confessed of his sin and was forgiven.

Part1.

The literal stripes of the Lord Jesus, are what heals us. ( belief in this in our hearts)

We, as sheep, turned to our own ways ( of disobedience/pride and evil lives when free from God, and the devil (subtle serpent) influencing and leading man astray ( understood in the garden and causing our death by hearing any word that resists Gods word)

The Lord then took our Shepherd, ( the great Shepherd of the sheep) and laid on Him, the iniquity of us all.

For our transgressions, He was struck, and was placed among the wicked in His death, but had no deceit in His mouth, but it pleased the Lord to put Him ( our Shepherd and our Lord and God) as an offering of His soul for sin, to see His seed( all in Christ) to prolong his days ( eternal life/replacing death by sinning) the pain in His soul, freed the knowledge of the righteous servant ( the Lord God and our Shepherd of our souls) to justify us, by bearing our iniquities, this is the pleasure of the Lord prospering in us after..



Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.



Through the blood of the everlasting covenant ( the blood of our Shepherd, gives us the writing, in His precious blood that speaks, in writing the new everlasting/ eternal life, covenant ,in His sheep that went their own ways)

Making us perfect, in every good work which is His will being done, God now working in us, what pleases Him ( through Christ and the pleasure of the Lord prospers in His hand/good and not iniquity at all)..


Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.



Christ suffered for us, giving us His example, to follow the steps, no guile in His mouth, did not return evil for evil, but good, and bore our sins in His own body, on the tree, and we are the same, dead to sins, living unto righteousness, (His stripes healed us) and no longer sheep going astray( every one to their own evil ways/devil guided) now returned to the Shepherd of our souls 9 His soul was offered for our ways of iniquity/ transgressions)



1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.



Jesus judged this world, ( He is God, the everlasting Father Isaiah 9:6) and Jesus cast out the prince of this world ( as Jesus is the Prince of peace and light excels darkness Ecclesiastes 2:13)

Jesus lifted up from the earth ( in the death of the cross) draws all men up to Him ( up to Heaven)

The people dispute with Jesus, in mans earthly wisdom, that the Messiah should abide forever, Jesus replies to them, the light was with them for a little while longer, then darkness comes, and when they have darkness they cannot see where they are going. They needed to believe in the light, to be children of light..



John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

John 12:34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.




The Lord broke His own body then for us, ( not to be broken again and always while we live, as the many who work iniquity as told)

Through the broken body of the Lord, we show the Lords death, and without judging ourselves, to know we must now be worthy of the Lords broken body for us, we eat and drink that bread and cup, unworthily, which brings illness and death to many. The chastening/correction of the Lord is what keeps us from the condemnation the world is then in..




1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.




Then comes the same steps for the Holy Apostles, of the Holy Lord God ( the deceivers try to show darkness in them, but fail as they are in darkness as self professed/works of darkness, sin occasionally )

Then we see this chastening, the Apostles are troubled, persecuted, cast down, always bearing in their body the dying of the Lord Jesus, as this alone manifests the life of the Lord Jesus in their body. ( the deceiver again says this is done by being a sinner, but confessing it)



2 Corinthians 4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.



But our outward man perishes, in affliction, to receive glory, and remembering that Jesus lifts up all men to Him, they no longer look on anything here on earth, but on the things not seen ( by others) the eternal, which is not by sinning/iniquity, but by righteousness of where the Lord is ( when in us too)



2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.





Jesus suffered death, to be crowned with glory, by tasting death for every man.

Glory came to God believing in Gods testimonies, of believing on God who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ( He is life and it was not possible that He can be held in death Acts 2:24)

Jesus delivered for our offences, was raised again for our justification ( believing in the pains He suffered gives man a conscience to not make Him suffer again in our actions, putting Him to an open shame in us and treading Him under our feet, crucifying Him afresh again Hebrews 6:6, Hebrews 10:29) then we are justified, living/ believing justly..




Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Romans 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Part2.

Adams cause of death, by offence to God, reigned to death, now life reigns by Jesus Christ, by the righteousness of Christ we receive that justification of life, by His obedience ( no longer followers of complete disobedience in no conscience) for us to be made righteous ( doers not hearers only) and as sin reigned to death for all in Adam/first man of the earth, the second man is the Lord from Heaven ( in us one together) which is grace reigning through righteousness ( the work God did to die/.rise for us, not words only) which is unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord..

(1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.)



Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.



They know not, but, being baptized into Jesus Christ is done only through being baptized into His death, this is the newness of life, a new planting, first planted in the death, then another in His resurrection, the old man and old body of sin destroyed ( To destroy him that had the power of death, that He might destroy the works of the devil, that through belief are cast off, Hebrews 2:14, 1 John 3:8 Romans 13:12)




Being dead with Christ, then enables us to believe we shall also live with Him, we then know ( believe) that Christ raised from the dead, dies no more, dominion does not continue ( remember it could no, He could not b held in death) we also follow that hearts belief, to be dead INDEED, to sin, and alive to God. Even as Jesus answered the disputers of the devil, their committing sin is their serving of sin, ( as is anyone's) but their problem is, that those servants and servers of sins, die, but the Son ( now server of sin abides ever ( only righteousness remains) and the Son makes us free, to be free INDEED, but they have no place in them for His word. The word is, we die once, then the judgment, and Christ was offered to bear the sins of many, and to the ones who look, they look for Him without sin which is to salvation ( looking in sin, is to damnation)..




John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.


Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.




The word of faith, which is the preaching, believing in the heart that God raised Christ our Lord ( and God/everlasting Father, without father, without mother, Hebrews 7:3) from the dead, and with that heart man believes unto the righteousness which speaks that we then shall never be ashamed...



Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.




Then the Lord saves those who call on Him in truth, needing to hear to believe, needing ears to hear with to hear, but not all believed the Gospel ( the preaching) as not all obeyed, so faith comes by that hearing, hearing the word of God( His word having place in them/escaping the devil) ..



Psalm 145:18 The Lord is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.


Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.



Then simple testimony, we are complete in Him, circumcised by the circumcision of Christ ( of the Spirit which is truth) which is putting off the body f the sins, of the flesh, the baptism that is the rising with Him, and our circumcision of our flesh, are then quickened together with Him, forgiving all tresspasses, taking the accusations against us, by His accusations nailed n His cross, overcoming all those powers ( the sin of the devil in death) openly showing triumph ( for us to believe in) over them..


Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.




Circumcisions counts, if we keep the law, breaking the law, makes them uncircumcised.

The uncircumcised keeps the righteousness of the law ( not a breaker or no difference) to make him be circumcision.

Fulfilling the law, judges the breaker of the law, by transgressing the law ( the law of Christ in us is that new covenant in the precious spotless blood of Christ to believe in, in a good conscience, not to destroy in an evil one)..



Romans 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?



Now all is made manifest, our Saviour appeared and abolished death ( destroyed him who had the power over death destroy the works of the devil in man) bringing life and immortality to light ( the darkness is past) through the Gospel...


2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

1 John 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Bible Highlighter said:

I agree with your interpretation on 1 John 1:8. I also don’t believe in confessing some sin that you know you did not commit (i.e. an imaginary sin). I am referring to the part of the Lord’s Prayer.

9 “After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.” (Matthew 6:9-13).​

Notice verse 12. It says forgive us our debts. Other translations say, forgive us our sins, or forgive us our wrongs. I take this as sins that do not lead unto death.

“Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.” (Psalms 19:12).

In other words, I don't believe all sin is the same. I believe there are sins not unto death, and sins unto death (1 John 5:16-17). Jesus described to us the difference between death sins vs. non-death sins in Matthew 5:22.

“But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice against him shall be guilty before the court; and whoever speaks [contemptuously and insultingly] to his brother, ‘Raca (You empty-headed idiot)!’ shall be guilty before the supreme court (Sanhedrin); and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of the fiery hell.” (Matthew 5:22) (AMP).​

The words in blue above are non-death sins because they are punishment in earthly courts (which is not death). The words in red above is a death sin because it is punishment in hellfire in the afterlife (which leads to the second death).

So what I am trying to say is as the Psalmist did to God. “Cleanse me from my secret faults.” Non-death sins or sins that do not lead to the second death (i.e. the Lake of Fire). It is the same with the Lord’s Prayer. Forgive us our debts. Our faults. Minor transgressions or imperfections of our character that does not exactly condemn us. For obviously if a believer committed murder, or adultery they would not be praying to the Lord trying to figure out if they did something wrong. God would of course convict a person of murder or adultery if that believer is not passed feeling whereby their heart has been hardened by the deceitfulness of sin (See: Hebrews 3:13). A believer needs to confess of known sins that lead to spiritual death, hellfire, or condemnation of one’s soul. If not, they are not playing ball on God’s terms. So if a believer committed adultery, and they did not confess of that sin, and they died shortly thereafter, I believe they are condemned by God because they have no remorse over their sin and they did not repent.

To repent is to seek forgiveness with God, and the natural fruits of repentance is to do good and to live a holy life unto the Lord (Thereby magnifying His grace). For John the Baptist said bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Matthew 3:8). Obviously the fruit (fruit of repentance) is not the same thing as the tree (repentance).

In Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

Jesus basically said in Luke 13:3 to repent or perish.
So I see 1 John 1:9 as in reference to what king David did. He confessed of his sin and was forgiven.

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Thanks for bringing the Lord's prayer to attention. That prayer is very dear to me. Prayed it even as a kid before I was a confessing Christian.

Maybe it's not that bad with asking for forgiveness together every sermon. It's just it can't be a license to sin or a substitute for the personal repentance. We need to have the will to change, not just accept we are sinners, and think God is fine with that. Not that I think you believe anything else.

Neither do I believe all sins are equal in God's eyes. Looking with lust is not as bad as actually commiting the act adultery. I think that should be obvious to us. You make a distinction between sins leading to death and sins not leading to death. I haven't made such a clear distinction, but I think you got a good point.

Do you mean repentance means just to ask for forgiveness?

zoidar said:

Thanks for bringing the Lord's prayer to attention. That prayer is very dear to me. Prayed it even as a kid before I was a confessing Christian.

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You are most welcome.
Oh, and yes, I prayed the Lord's prayer when I was a kid too; But the problem is that I mindless recited the passage as if it was some kind of magical spell or incantation. I thought that just by saying the words (mindlessly), that it pleased God. Jesus condemned in the same chapter those who prayed in a way that they would be heard for their speaking much. In other words, if a person is praying words without any real thought or intent to the Lord, those words are just useless and empty. They are vain. But the point of the Lord's prayer as I later learned as I studied God's Word is that it is an outline to pray in your own words for specific things to fulfill God's will in your life personally.

Maybe it's not that bad with asking for forgiveness together every sermon. It's just it can't be a license to sin or a substitute for the personal repentance. We need to have the will to change, not just accept we are sinners, and think God is fine with that. Not that I think you believe anything else.

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I 100% agree. 2 Corinthians 7:1 sums it up nicely (Which is a verse that many Christians do not appear to accept nowadays).

“...let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

You said:

Neither do I believe all sins are equal in God's eyes. Looking with lust is not as bad as actually committing the act adultery. I think that should be obvious to us.

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Agreed, but both the act of adultery, and looking upon a woman in lust both can lead to a person being cast bodily into hellfire. For this is what we read in Matthew 5:28-30. So we have to guard our hearts, and minds against this.

You said:

You make a distinction between sins leading to death and sins not leading to death. I haven't made such a clear distinction, but I think you got a good point.

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1 John 5:16 says, “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.”

I see this as referring to a believer struggling with a particular sin that they are confessing (1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Hebrews 4:16), and trying to overcome with the help of the brethren and by their praying for him on it. This points back to 1 John 2:1 in John saying for us to “sin not,” but if we do, we have an advocate that we can go to named Jesus Christ. We are to confess our sins to be forgiven of sin, and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness. They are to pray so that he may have victory or life over this sin that has a strong hold on him. The sin unto death is a believer who is rebellious towards God in obeying Him and who has the gnostic way of thinking about sin and who is seeking to justify sin.

I see that there are other non-death sins because we see this implied in other verses in Scripture (Matthew 5:22, Psalms 19:12).


I see this as in reference to the commands Jesus mentioned at the sermon on the Mount. This would be His commands like: Rejoice when others revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for the Lord's sake (See: Matthew 5:11-12). For there is no warning of hellfire if we do not obey this command, and it does not appear to be a major violation of loving God and others. Granted, we should obey even this command by our Lord. For all commands of our Lord should be obeyed to the best of our ability and with the help of God (by our continual drawing closer to Him, and by our asking for His help).

You said:

Do you mean repentance means just to ask for forgiveness?

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Yes. But true repentance is shown to be true by the fruits of repentance (Which are good deeds, obedience to God, and living holy thereby magnifying God's grace).

I believe the Sinner’s Prayer (Initial Salvation), or Confessing Sin (after we are saved by God's grace) is just another way of the Bible saying to “Repent.”

Here is....

My Biblical Case For Repentance:

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

Again, I wanted to stress again: "Asking the Lord for forgiveness of sin" (i.e. Repentance) can either refer to: The "Sinner's Prayer" (Initial Salvation) (Romans 10:13), and or the seasoned believer "Confessing one's sin" (Continued Salvation) (See 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1).

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin.”

Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

"Neither do I believe all sins are equal in God's eyes. Looking with lust is not as bad as actually commiting the act adultery. I think that should be obvious to us. You make a distinction between sins leading to death and sins not leading to death."


Both lost as usual.

The testimony is, your eyes are still full of adultery, when you deny ceasing from sin, all your discussions have to dance around this...

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:


Now, let me show how your wisdom is empty and foolishness.

You both consider that this below, says some sins are OK, and others are not.

But, it actually says, the born of God sin not, and it does not say your wishes, that the born of God did a sin that was minor and therefore not unto death.

Hmm, so what does it mean then ?

Yes, it means as it says, how strange? No private interpretation needed for you guys that love that, and is the only reason you discuss around and around all your lives?

So, the man, not being born of God( as of yet) is not unto death, not keeping themselves, from that wicked one touching him yet, not doing unrighteously ( all sin is unrighteous) because of previously, being not born of God, and not defended against, from the devil. It is the sinner requiring converting..

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

1 Timothy 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.
25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.


The topic should be, good sense, versus, nonsense.

prophecy_uk said:

"Neither do I believe all sins are equal in God's eyes. Looking with lust is not as bad as actually commiting the act adultery. I think that should be obvious to us. You make a distinction between sins leading to death and sins not leading to death."


Both lost as usual.

The testimony is, your eyes are still full of adultery, when you deny ceasing from sin, all your discussions have to dance around this...

2 Peter 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:


Now, let me show how your wisdom is empty and foolishness.

You both consider that this below, says some sins are OK, and others are not.

But, it actually says, the born of God sin not, and it does not say your wishes, that the born of God did a sin that was minor and therefore not unto death.

Hmm, so what does it mean then ?

Yes, it means as it says, how strange? No private interpretation needed for you guys that love that, and is the only reason you discuss around and around all your lives?

So, the man, not being born of God( as of yet) is not unto death, not keeping themselves, from that wicked one touching him yet, not doing unrighteously ( all sin is unrighteous) because of previously, being not born of God, and not defended against, from the devil. It is the sinner requiring converting..

1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

1 Timothy 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.
25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.


The topic should be, good sense, versus, nonsense.

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I'm not saying some sins are ok. But some sins shipwreck your faith, others don't.

"I'm not saying some sins are ok. But some sins shipwreck your faith, others don't."


Just the way you want it to be, but it's better you didn't try to prove a lie, not with me here.

Sin is unrighteousness, and it is the transgression of the law, and it works ill to others, that is why the law is fulfilled in us/kept) because all that is sin, is shipwreck. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, and that is then, all that is unrighteousness is not fulfilled at all.

Why would God write the whole law in us, for us to keep it, if all was not as essential as every other part ?

You know, if you want to really find this out, you can with me, but do you not feel shameful, that you discuss about the Lord, yet show disregard for His words, and how you never learned them, being too bust talking your own topics and entertaining yourself, I am about to correct your friends on another thread on this right now.

prophecy_uk said:

"I'm not saying some sins are ok. But some sins shipwreck your faith, others don't."


Just the way you want it to be, but it's better you didn't try to prove a lie, not with me here.

Sin is unrighteousness, and it is the transgression of the law, and it works ill to others, that is why the law is fulfilled in us/kept) because all that is sin, is shipwreck. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, and that is then, all that is unrighteousness is not fulfilled at all.

Why would God write the whole law in us, for us to keep it, if all was not as essential as every other part ?

You know, if you want to really find this out, you can with me, but do you not feel shameful, that you discuss about the Lord, yet show disregard for His words, and how you never learned them, being too bust talking your own topics and entertaining yourself, I am about to correct your friends on another thread on this right now.

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But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, “God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
— James 4:6

prophecy_uk said:

"I'm not saying some sins are ok. But some sins shipwreck your faith, others don't."


Just the way you want it to be, but it's better you didn't try to prove a lie, not with me here.

Sin is unrighteousness, and it is the transgression of the law, and it works ill to others, that is why the law is fulfilled in us/kept) because all that is sin, is shipwreck. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, and that is then, all that is unrighteousness is not fulfilled at all.

Why would God write the whole law in us, for us to keep it, if all was not as essential as every other part ?

You know, if you want to really find this out, you can with me, but do you not feel shameful, that you discuss about the Lord, yet show disregard for His words, and how you never learned them, being too bust talking your own topics and entertaining yourself, I am about to correct your friends on another thread on this right now.

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Can you give an example of the "whole law" that we are supposed to keep? Have you slaughtered any animals recently to appease God? 'Cause that's a big part of "the Law".

Zoidar: "some sins shipwreck your faith, others don't."


Zoidar: But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, “God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
— James 4:6


Yes Zoidar, resisting the proud, and then, resist the devil of pride, clean your hands you sinners and double minded, purify your heart..

James 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


Grace to the humble..

2 Corinthians 12:21 And lest, when I come again, MY GOD WILL HUMBLE ME AMONG YOU, and THAT I SHALL BEWAIL MANY WHICH HAVE SINNED ALREADY, and have NOT REPENTED OF THE UNCLEANNESS AND FORNICATION AND LASCIVIOUSNESS WHICH THEY HAVE COMMITTED..







Pescador: "Can you give an example of the "whole law" that we are supposed to keep? Have you slaughtered any animals recently to appease God? 'Cause that's a big part of "the Law""






The whole law, is the law that is made whole, magnified and made honourable, this is Jesus then fulfilling the law ( the whole law) and the slaughter of the animals, is the Lamb of God made sacrifice for us, and to instead slaughter others, through sins, which is to crucify Christ afresh, you fulfil the law of Christ, which does not slaughter, or shipwreck anyone else.



Isaiah 42:21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW AND MAKE IT HONOURABLE.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, BUT TO FULFIL.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.


If you keep the whole law, yet offend in one point, your conscience may not be guilty, but the ones you work ill to, see you as guilty. Then for that mercilessness, equates to receiving the same as you gave out, so much for self forgiving..


James 2:8 If ye FULFIL THE ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the WHOLE LAW, and YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, he IS GUILTY OF ALL.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and SO DO, AS THEY THAT SHALL BE JUDGED BY THE LAW OF LIBERTY.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.



Love is not in sinning, that is the devils book, but of course that is an infiltrator and a wolf in sheep's clothing, so it has to be present in all the world of deceivers, only with one word in their mouth, sinning, see what whole means, and id it works ill to anyone in what the law says ( knowing the whole law fulfillment was always to love our neighbour as ourselves..


Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 FOR ALL THE LAW IS FULFILLED in one word, even in this; THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 WHICH SHEW THE WORK OF THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for HE THAT LOVETH ANOTHER HATH FULFILLED THE LAW.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly COMPREHENDED IN THIS SAYING, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.
10 LOVE WORKETH NO ILL TO HIS NEIGHBOUR: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.


It is a thread on good deeds, versus sinning, Fulfilling the law of Christ is us being made whole.

That is, as taught, no part dark and the whole is light, the whole is leavened, no longer unleavened in malice and strife ( as all on these forums remain for years for strife only) in wickedness and sin, being not made whole..


Luke 11:36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

Luke 13:21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.


That is understanding, when we know that God sanctifies us wholly, ( not partially) for our whole spirit and soul and body to be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and we able to not offend in word, and be a perfect man able also to bridle the whole body..


1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

zoidar said:

I'm not saying some sins are ok. But some sins shipwreck your faith, others don't.

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So where is the Scripture which sets this Doctrine for you?

renniks said:

So I'm trying to understand how doing good and sinning balance out in a believers life.

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They don't.
Who ever said that (Good and Sinning) (Evil) balance out in a Believers life? ------Satan?

renniks said:

C. They cancel each other out, so I don't have any good deed merit but on the other hand, I don't have the sin on my account either.

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So then we find a Law, that when I would commit sin, I must find a good deed also, that it would cancel out the sin in my life, thus keeping myself pure in the eyes of God.

Self Salvation is so satisfying, thank you Jesus, for giving me a way to cleans myself from all iniquity.