The days of Noah

Spiritual Jew said:

It's obvious that you're wrong.

Where does the text itself indicate that "Eternal Life cannot be conferred onto anyone before the Book of Life is opened"? Wouldn't it already be established before the GWT judgment takes place who has eternal life and who doesn't? Of course it would.

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It is obvious that I am right, as Eternal life is actually determined by whether or not a persons name in in the Book of Life, or not. Malachi 3:16-17
That Book remains closed until everyone stands before God, on His GWT, after the Millennium.
Not believing in the Millennium to come after Jesus Returns, is your difficulty.

Spiritual Jew said:

Matthew 25:31-46 is absolutely NOT about "the Judgment of nations and people groups" instead of individuals. That cannot possibly be true. There is no scripture to support that idea.

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Matthew 25:32...with all the nations gathered before Him....separated into the sheep nations and the goat nations.
I do see this event as the time when Jesus will give out His rewards to those faithful and who have done good works: Matthew 16:27

There will be no people who are not true believers, who will go into the Millennium with King Jesus. All the ungodly and wicked followers of Satan, will be dead and after the 1000 years, they will stand before God in Judgment. Then they will go into the Lake of Fire.

Spiritual Jew said:

Yes, you showed how you think 1 Cor 15:50-56 does not happen at Christ's return, but your logic is faulty and you contradict many other scripture passages with that interpretation.

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Pointing out the truths of scripture is 'faulty logic'?
It is you who contradicts scriptures, the three clear prophesies about Jesus Return; Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 19:11, never say there will be a general resurrection then, let alone to immortality.

Spiritual Jew said:

That's utter nonsense. There is no basis whatsoever to separate verse 46 from verses 31-45.

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Your opinion.
Matthew 25:46 doesn't say when.
Most Prophecy is like this, gaps and mixed up. Only Revelation gives the correct sequence.

jeffweedaman said:

Judgment has been passed over the 2 groups when the Lord comes again , so why wait for a thousand years for the last verse????

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Because the earth is the place that has been prepared since creation. Those sheep are going to reign on the earth prepared since the 6 days of Creation, for the next 1000 years.

"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

The NHNE is not the place that was prepared for them over 6000 years ago.

Spiritual Jew said:

When did I say their names are removed from the book of life at the GWT or that they live on earth with the mark after the GWT? I didn't. I'm tired of you misrepresenting what I believe all the time. What is it that causes you to constantly misrepresent what people believe? Do you try to pay close attention to what people are saying or do you just skim over what people say to you?

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Because Matthew 25 is the Second Coming and not the GWT. Those sheep live on the earth for 1000 years and certainly do not stand at the GWT. I am not misquoting you. I am pointing out that the GWT cannot happen 1000 years before it actually does. Those sheep and beheaded have to live out that 1000 years before the GWT. They cannot be resurrected after the GWT. That would be pointless. Because at the end of those 1000 years is when the rest of the dead are judged, not those who just lived out all those years.

Timtofly said:

Because the earth is the place that has been prepared since creation. Those sheep are going to reign on the earth prepared since the 6 days of Creation, for the next 1000 years.

"Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"

The NHNE is not the place that was prepared for them over 6000 years ago.

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You couldnt be more wrong Tim.
The earth was prepared without sin and death from the foundation of the world and the the NHNE represents that.
So that must mean our reigning with the Lord is in the here and now on this old fallen earth through the power of his Spirit until the complete restoration of all things.

jeffweedaman said:

You couldnt be more wrong Tim.
The earth was prepared without sin and death from the foundation of the world and the the NHNE represents that.
So that must mean our reigning with the Lord is in the here and now on this old fallen earth through the power of his Spirit until the complete restoration of all things.

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The millennial reign is the restoration of all things currently created. That kingdom will be handed back to God as sinless and perfect as was the first 1000 years of this current creation.

After the riff raff is consumed in fire, after heaven and earth pass, only then will God create a totally different reality that will never be like this current reality.

Even the two lights in the sky will not give their light in the NHNE. They will not exist. Even time will be different. There will be a last 1000 years. 1000 years, or even 1 year, will be meaningless in the NHNE.

Timtofly said:

The millennial reign is the restoration of all things currently created. That kingdom will be handed back to God as sinless and perfect as was the first 1000 years of this current creation.

After the riff raff is consumed in fire, after heaven and earth pass, only then will God create a totally different reality that will never be like this current reality.

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The creation was not perfect for the first thousand years of creation. Where do you get that?
The flood came after 1696 years or so.
A similar event by fire concludes with the heaven and earth passing away at his coming, but dont take my word for it...,

Matt 24
21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will again. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. 23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘He is over here,’ do not believe him. 24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. 27 For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

The Glorious Return
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet blast, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

Timtofly said:

Even the two lights in the sky will not give their light in the NHNE. They will not exist. Even time will be different. There will be a last 1000 years. 1000 years, or even 1 year, will be meaningless in the NHNE.

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Contradict what it tells us in the OT then, I guess. Nowhere in Revelation 21-22 does it say these two lights will no longer exist. It simply states they are not needed in the city. The city is not the entire planet.

Psalms 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

It couldn't get any clearer than this. First it tells us that His name shall endure for ever. Then it tells us His name shall be continued as long as the sun. Logic says that unless the sun also endures forever His name can't endure forever, which then contradicts the fact the text tells us His name shall endure for ever, that it shall be continued as long as the sun.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

And this couldn't get any clearer, either. It says the city, not the entire planet, had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it.


Thus the way I interpret it there are no contradictions. The way you and some others are interpreting this, you are causing a contradiction in Psalms 72:17 for one.

keras said:

It is obvious that I am right, as Eternal life is actually determined by whether or not a persons name in in the Book of Life, or not. Malachi 3:16-17
That Book remains closed until everyone stands before God, on His GWT, after the Millennium.
Not believing in the Millennium to come after Jesus Returns, is your difficulty.

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You're acting as if even God Himself will have not yet determined whether each person will be given eternal life or the second death before the GWT judgment occurs. Are you really that naive? Of course He will already know that beforehand. The GWT judgment is not for the purpose of God taking time to figure out where each person should go for eternity. The GWT judgment is the time of sentencing for each person based on what God will have already determined for each person beforehand.

Matthew 25:32...with all the nations gathered before Him....separated into the sheep nations and the goat nations.
I do see this event as the time when Jesus will give out His rewards to those faithful and who have done good works: Matthew 16:27

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Make up your mind. Is it a judgment of nations or of individuals? It can't be a judgment of nations. You have to be completely lacking in discernment to not understand that.

Nowhere does scripture teach that entire nations would be judged for not helping the needy or rewarded for helping the needy. How would that even make any sense? Obviously, there are no nations where everyone living there helps the needy or where everyone living there doesn't help the needy.

Nowhere does scripture teach that entire nations will inherit eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world.

Nowhere does scripture teach that entire nations will be cast into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels, which we should all easily discern is a reference to the lake of fire.

There will be no people who are not true believers, who will go into the Millennium with King Jesus. All the ungodly and wicked followers of Satan, will be dead and after the 1000 years, they will stand before God in Judgment. Then they will go into the Lake of Fire.

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Matthew 25:31-46 will occur "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him". It clearly will occur when He returns. And Matthew 25:41 makes it quite clear that "the ungodly and wicked followers of Satan" will be cast into everlasting fire at that time and not 1000+ years later.

Pointing out the truths of scripture is 'faulty logic'?

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No, it isn't, but you're not pointing out the truths of scripture.

It is you who contradicts scriptures, the three clear prophesies about Jesus Return; Zechariah 14:3, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 19:11, never say there will be a general resurrection then, let alone to immortality.

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Why do people do this? If a passage doesn't mention a certain detail relating to a certain event, then that passage has to be talking about some other event? How can we relate any two passages together by using that ridiculous approach to interpreting scripture? That a general resurrection (of believers, at least) occurs at His return is very clear from passages like 1 Thess 4:14-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:22-23.

Your opinion.
Matthew 25:46 doesn't say when.
Most Prophecy is like this, gaps and mixed up. Only Revelation gives the correct sequence.

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That's a convenient cop out. Again, there is no basis whatsoever for concluding that Matthew 25:46 is referring to a different event than Matthew 25:31-45. That is the kind of thing someone resorts to when they realize their doctrine is false but still want to cling to it.

Timtofly said:

I am not misquoting you.

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You indicated that you think I believe that "their names are removed from the book of life at the GWT" and "they live on earth with the mark after the GWT". I do not believe those things. So, how were you not misrepresenting my beliefs by claiming that I believe things that I don't actually believe?

Those sheep and beheaded have to live out that 1000 years before the GWT. They cannot be resurrected after the GWT. That would be pointless. Because at the end of those 1000 years is when the rest of the dead are judged, not those who just lived out all those years.

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Who is saying they would be resurrected after the GWT? Not me. You're arguing with a straw man.

Spiritual Jew said:

but you're not pointing out the truths of scripture.

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I do, but you are blinded to them by your wrong beliefs.
We will soon see the end times events come to pass. Only then will most people understand God's Plans for our future, Isaiah 29:2-24, Isaiah 32:3-4

DavidPT said:

Contradict what it tells us in the OT then, I guess. Nowhere in Revelation 21-22 does it say these two lights will no longer exist. It simply states they are not needed in the city. The city is not the entire planet.

Psalms 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

It couldn't get any clearer than this. First it tells us that His name shall endure for ever. Then it tells us His name shall be continued as long as the sun. Logic says that unless the sun also endures forever His name can't endure forever, which then contradicts the fact the text tells us His name shall endure for ever, that it shall be continued as long as the sun.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

And this couldn't get any clearer, either. It says the city, not the entire planet, had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it.


Thus the way I interpret it there are no contradictions. The way you and some others are interpreting this, you are causing a contradiction in Psalms 72:17 for one.

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Current creation will pass away, cease to exist. Created things can cease to exist. Like all animal life ceases to exist. Not existing is not without precedent. Souls and spirits do not cease to exist. Every thing else very much will cease to exist.