Bound for a thousand years

parousia70 · Aug 19, 2021

DavidPT said:
That doesn't even make sense.

That's not what the text indicates.

Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

The text indicates a thousand years in His sight when it is past, it is but as yesterday, and a watch in the night. Yesterday is only meaning one day, and in the same day meant, a watch in the night is part of that same day. That does not equal 1 day plus 3 hours, that equals one day.

For example, from our perspective, if a watch in the night happens during a 24 hour period, no one would say that 24 hour period equals 24 hours plus another 3 hours. That's 27 hours. That watch in the night happens during that same 24 hour period, and not during 3 hours post that 24 hour period. The same has to be true of the thousand years. But I don't expect some of you to get it no matter how I try and explain it.

Rather, it means God is time-less.
It's not some prophetic mathematical formula.

Peter confirms this:

2 Peter 3:8
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

Peter is not saying the same thing twice, He is saying two opposite things, namely that one thousand earth years are like a day to God AND 1 earth Day is like a thousand years to God.

Both are true for God is Time-Less

God can make 1000 earth years seem like one day TO HIM (or even three hours Ps 90:4), AND He can make one earth day (or even three earth hours Ps 90:4) seem like a thousand years TO HIM.

He can do BOTH for He is Time-LESS.

DavidPT · Aug 19, 2021

parousia70 said:
Rather, it means God is time-less.
It's not some prophetic mathematical formula.

Peter confirms this:

2 Peter 3:8
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”

Peter is not saying the same thing twice, He is saying two opposite things, namely that one thousand earth years are like a day to God AND 1 earth Day is like a thousand years to God.

Both are true for God is Time-Less

God can make 1000 earth years seem like one day TO HIM (or even three hours Ps 90:4), AND He can make one earth day (or even three earth hours Ps 90:4) seem like a thousand years TO HIM.

He can do BOTH for He is Time-LESS.

Even what you are proposing implies a literal thousand years are meant, yet many are denying a literal thousand years are meant. It still doesn't mean that God sees 24 hours and a thousand years the same. God was the one who created time. He knows the difference between 24 hours and a thousand years. He surely knows that a thousand years can't be fulfilled within 24 literal hours. That would be impossible plus breaks all the rules God put forth concerning time. No doubt God is timeless, yet at the same time, God created time.

FaithWillDo · Aug 19, 2021

DavidPT said:
This post did further help clarify your earlier post I was addressing. Thanks.

Can a thousand in the Bible ever pertain to a literal thousand? Or is every time a thousand is used in the Bible we need to understand it as 10X10X10? What about the following?

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Dear DavidPT,
You asked:
Can a thousand in the Bible ever pertain to a literal thousand? Or is every time a thousand is used in the Bible we need to understand it as 10X10X10? What about the following?

Yes, it absolutely can be understood as a literal 1000 years. The Old Testament is actual history and is recorded in scripture exactly the way it happened. When it says someone lived to be 500 years old, they actually lived 500 years. But within that actual history, there is a spiritual teaching. Here is what Paul said:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Paul is speaking of the Old Testament fathers and the events that happened to them. Paul says those events are "types" which teach the Elect spiritual truths. Those "types" are for the Elect because they are the only ones who are given spiritual "eyes and ears". They are the only ones who can understand and accept the teachings of the "types". In other words, the Elect's spiritual blindness has been healed so that they can understand the hidden truth of scripture. Of course, not every Elect person can understand all the "types" presented in scripture. I supposed it could take a lifetime of study and one would still not understand every verse of scripture. But the Elect can understand many things as the Lord individually "wills" for them.

I will try to give some spiritual meaning to the verse you quoted, but honestly, I have never studied this verse before so I may not have a perfect understanding of it. I will try though, as the Lord "wills".

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

The verse you quoted is speaking of a literal 2,000 years but that verse also teaches a spiritual truth. As I said in my earlier post, one thousand (10x10x10) is speaking of the completeness of our flesh. This completeness of the fleah manifests itself as a person who has received the Early Rain (been "called out") but has fallen to Satan's deceptions and has mistakenly accepted Satan's lies as the truth of Christ. This happens because Christ's leaves the new believer spiritually blind after they receive the Early Rain.

Here are a couple of places in scripture where that truth is taught:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All the parables that start off with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on a certain aspect of the pathway to salvation. Some of the aspects are good and some are evil. But regardless of which they are, we ALL must experience them because we cannot deviate from the path Christ has laid down. We all live (born again) by every word that comes from the mouth of God.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Bread is the truth of Christ which spiritually nurtures us. But the path of salvation includes other things which are necessary but causes us harm. The leavened bread above is one of those things. But nevertheless, we all must eat this leavened bread.

The scripture below teaches more fully about what happens to us when we eat this bread.

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation

Unclean (Evil) spirits represent Satan's false truth. Since we remain spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain, we cannot replace our worldly false beliefs with God's truth. One "evil spirit" leaves but comes back with seven more (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) since our house remains void of God's truth. Now, instead of "one evil spirit" within us, we now have EIGHT. The number EIGHT spiritually represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, our new spiritual condition is "worse than the first". Paul calls this worsened spiritual condition the Man of Sin.

After the new believer devolves into a Man of Sin, their deadly head wound that came from the sword of Christ at the time of the Early Rain is healed. The blow by the Sword of Christ was intended to slay our carnal nature (Old man) but because of our spiritual blindness and Satan’s deceptions, the wound is healed and our Old Man continues to live.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

As a result, we are still represented by the Seven-Headed Beast of Revelation. In case you are unaware, the Seven Headed Beast is a symbol for mankind in our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition. After our deadly head wound is healed, we have truly "fallen away" and become a Man of Sin who follows the ways of Satan instead of Christ. Satan teaches us to approach Christ by a mixture of our own "works" and by faith. This is the sin of "falling away" and it leads to our spiritual death (1John 5:16). At this point, we lose our salvation and we cannot be renewed by repentance (Heb 6:4-6). It is for this reason that Christ must come a second time to us if we are going to be saved in this age. When Christ comes (Day of the Lord) to us a second time, He will bring the Latter Rain. It is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and is the same baptism which the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost. It is also the same baptism that Paul received after being in Damascus for three days.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the most common false belief that causes us to "fall away". We use this false belief system to justify why unbelievers are worthy of "hell" and why we are not. We falsely believe that we are wiser or smarter or simply less evil than those who reject Christ. And because of this belief, we take credit for making the right "choice" to accept Christ. But in truth, the credit is not ours. It was Christ's work within us that caused us to accept Him as "Lord". In our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition we have from birth, no man will even seek to know God (Rom 3:10-11, Rom 8:7), much less accept Him as Lord.

Scripture clearly says that unless Christ gives us the Holy Spirit, we cannot call Him "Lord".

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Only after Christ comes to us and gives us the Early Rain of the Spirit can we call Christ “Lord”. Paul’s Damascus Road experience is the “pattern” (type) whereby we all must follow in order to be “called out from the world”. Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road, uninvited by Paul, and gave Paul the Early Rain. Paul had no choice in the matter as to whether to accept the Spirit or to reject the Spirit. The Spirit was given to Him and after it was, Paul fell to his knees and called Christ “Lord”. However, Paul became blind upon receiving the Early Rain. His blindness "types" our spiritual blindness that we all have at that time. Paul then had to be lead by the hand which "types" the blind leading the blind.

After a "called out" believer has “fallen away” and is no longer saved, it becomes necessary for Christ must come to them a second time with the Latter Rain. If Christ doesn't come again to them, they will die in their sins and receive their “portion” with the unbelievers. If the Called Out believer is one of the “few” who have been chosen from the foundation of the world, Christ will come to them again before they physically die. And when He comes, He brings salvation with Him.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Just a quick note on this verse: Christ “appeared” the first time in the flesh and took away the sins of the world on the cross. When He comes to an unbeliever with the Early Rain, He does not “appear” to them but remains hidden from their understanding. The Early Rain event is not an “appearance”, it is a visitation. When Christ comes to a Called Out believer with the Latter Rain, He “appears” to them as Heb 9:28 shows. When He comes, He gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit and fully heals their spiritual blindness. The Light of His appearing will destroy the Man of Sin whom they have become under Satan deceptions. It is at this point, the new child of God is born who will never fall away again.

Now back to your verse:

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Now that we know what a thousand years spiritually means, we need to look at "twice told". Here are some verses that apply:

Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.

Job 40:5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

Jude 1:2 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

So putting it all together, this is what I am seeing:

Mankind, in our completed carnal nature (Old Man + Man of Sin), though he lives two times, will still not understand God (seen no good) and will still go to the grave (same place).

I believe the "two times" is referring to the original "life" that Adam had with God before He sinned. The second time mankind has life is after we receive the Early Rain. We have "life" both times but only for a short while because we approach God by our "works" and "fall away". Adam approached God in an apron of fig leaves (his works). An Early Rain believer approaches God by mixing "works" with faith, as I described above. Mankind is then "twice dead".

I believe that is a reasonable understanding but more study may be required.

Does what I wrote above answer your question for you?

Joe

DavidPT · Aug 19, 2021

FaithWillDo said:
Dear DavidPT,
You asked:
Can a thousand in the Bible ever pertain to a literal thousand? Or is every time a thousand is used in the Bible we need to understand it as 10X10X10? What about the following?

Yes, it absolutely can be understood as a literal 1000 years. The Old Testament is actual history and is recorded in scripture exactly the way it happened. When it says someone lived to be 500 years old, they actually lived 500 years. But within that actual history, there is a spiritual teaching. Here is what Paul said:

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Paul is speaking of the Old Testament fathers and the events that happened to them. Paul says those events are "types" which teach the Elect spiritual truths. Those "types" are for the Elect because they are the only ones who are given spiritual "eyes and ears". They are the only ones who can understand and accept the teachings of the "types". In other words, the Elect's spiritual blindness has been healed so that they can understand the hidden truth of scripture. Of course, not every Elect person can understand all the "types" presented in scripture. I supposed it could take a lifetime of study and one would still not understand every verse of scripture. But the Elect can understand many things as the Lord individually "wills" for them.

I will try to give some spiritual meaning to the verse you quoted, but honestly, I have never studied this verse before so I may not have a perfect understanding of it. I will try though, as the Lord "wills".

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

The verse you quoted is speaking of a literal 2,000 years but that verse also teaches a spiritual truth. As I said in my earlier post, one thousand (10x10x10) is speaking of the completeness of our flesh. This completeness of the fleah manifests itself as a person who has received the Early Rain (been "called out") but has fallen to Satan's deceptions and has mistakenly accepted Satan's lies as the truth of Christ. This happens because Christ's leaves the new believer spiritually blind after they receive the Early Rain.

Here are a couple of places in scripture where that truth is taught:

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All the parables that start off with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on a certain aspect of the pathway to salvation. Some of the aspects are good and some are evil. But regardless of which they are, we ALL must experience them because we cannot deviate from the path Christ has laid down. We all live (born again) by every word that comes from the mouth of God.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Bread is the truth of Christ which spiritually nurtures us. But the path of salvation includes other things which are necessary but causes us harm. The leavened bread above is one of those things. But nevertheless, we all must eat this leavened bread.

The scripture below teaches more fully about what happens to us when we eat this bread.

Mat 12:43-45 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation

Unclean (Evil) spirits represent Satan's false truth. Since we remain spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain, we cannot replace our worldly false beliefs with God's truth. One "evil spirit" leaves but comes back with seven more (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) since our house remains void of God's truth. Now, instead of "one evil spirit" within us, we now have EIGHT. The number EIGHT spiritually represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, our new spiritual condition is "worse than the first". Paul calls this worsened spiritual condition the Man of Sin.

After the new believer devolves into a Man of Sin, their deadly head wound that came from the sword of Christ at the time of the Early Rain is healed. The blow by the Sword of Christ was intended to slay our carnal nature (Old man) but because of our spiritual blindness and Satan’s deceptions, the wound is healed and our Old Man continues to live.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

As a result, we are still represented by the Seven-Headed Beast of Revelation. In case you are unaware, the Seven Headed Beast is a symbol for mankind in our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition. After our deadly head wound is healed, we have truly "fallen away" and become a Man of Sin who follows the ways of Satan instead of Christ. Satan teaches us to approach Christ by a mixture of our own "works" and by faith. This is the sin of "falling away" and it leads to our spiritual death (1John 5:16). At this point, we lose our salvation and we cannot be renewed by repentance (Heb 6:4-6). It is for this reason that Christ must come a second time to us if we are going to be saved in this age. When Christ comes (Day of the Lord) to us a second time, He will bring the Latter Rain. It is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and is the same baptism which the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost. It is also the same baptism that Paul received after being in Damascus for three days.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the most common false belief that causes us to "fall away". We use this false belief system to justify why unbelievers are worthy of "hell" and why we are not. We falsely believe that we are wiser or smarter or simply less evil than those who reject Christ. And because of this belief, we take credit for making the right "choice" to accept Christ. But in truth, the credit is not ours. It was Christ's work within us that caused us to accept Him as "Lord". In our spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition we have from birth, no man will even seek to know God (Rom 3:10-11, Rom 8:7), much less accept Him as Lord.

Scripture clearly says that unless Christ gives us the Holy Spirit, we cannot call Him "Lord".

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Only after Christ comes to us and gives us the Early Rain of the Spirit can we call Christ “Lord”. Paul’s Damascus Road experience is the “pattern” (type) whereby we all must follow in order to be “called out from the world”. Christ came to Paul on the Damascus Road, uninvited by Paul, and gave Paul the Early Rain. Paul had no choice in the matter as to whether to accept the Spirit or to reject the Spirit. The Spirit was given to Him and after it was, Paul fell to his knees and called Christ “Lord”. However, Paul became blind upon receiving the Early Rain. His blindness "types" our spiritual blindness that we all have at that time. Paul then had to be lead by the hand which "types" the blind leading the blind.

After a "called out" believer has “fallen away” and is no longer saved, it becomes necessary for Christ must come to them a second time with the Latter Rain. If Christ doesn't come again to them, they will die in their sins and receive their “portion” with the unbelievers. If the Called Out believer is one of the “few” who have been chosen from the foundation of the world, Christ will come to them again before they physically die. And when He comes, He brings salvation with Him.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Just a quick note on this verse: Christ “appeared” the first time in the flesh and took away the sins of the world on the cross. When He comes to an unbeliever with the Early Rain, He does not “appear” to them but remains hidden from their understanding. The Early Rain event is not an “appearance”, it is a visitation. When Christ comes to a Called Out believer with the Latter Rain, He “appears” to them as Heb 9:28 shows. When He comes, He gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit and fully heals their spiritual blindness. The Light of His appearing will destroy the Man of Sin whom they have become under Satan deceptions. It is at this point, the new child of God is born who will never fall away again.

Now back to your verse:

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Now that we know what a thousand years spiritually means, we need to look at "twice told". Here are some verses that apply:

Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.

Job 40:5 Once have I spoken; but I will not answer: yea, twice; but I will proceed no further.

Jude 1:2 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

So putting it all together, this is what I am seeing:

Mankind, in our completed carnal nature (Old Man + Man of Sin), though he lives two times, will still not understand God (seen no good) and will still go to the grave (same place).

I believe the "two times" is referring to the original "life" that Adam had with God before He sinned. The second time mankind has life is after we receive the Early Rain. We have "life" both times but only for a short while because we approach God by our "works" and "fall away". Adam approached God in an apron of fig leaves (his works). An Early Rain believer approaches God by mixing "works" with faith, as I described above. Mankind is then "twice dead".

I believe that is a reasonable understanding but more study may be required.

Does what I wrote above answer your question for you?

Joe

Believe it or not I was actually able to follow what you were saying. At this point I can't say that I know that you are correct, but at least I was able to follow what you were saying, when there are a lot of times when others post, that I can't follow what they are saying no matter what, and I'm sure others can probably say the same about some of my posts as well. The above did answer my question, though like I said, at this point I can't say that I know you are correct.

What you take to be meaning the latter rain, where when one that has fallen away, there is still hope for some of them during the latter rain, the verse you supplied to support that, Heb 9:28, I take that to be involving His 2nd bodily coming in the end of this age and that it appears that maybe you don't.

FaithWillDo · Aug 19, 2021

DavidPT said:
Believe it or not I was actually able to follow what you were saying. At this point I can't say that I know that you are correct, but at least I was able to follow what you were saying, when there are a lot of times when others post, that I can't follow what they are saying no matter what, and I'm sure others can probably say the same about some of my posts as well. The above did answer my question, though like I said, at this point I can't say that I know you are correct.

What you take to be meaning the latter rain, where when one that has fallen away, there is still hope for some of them during the latter rain, the verse you supplied to support that, Heb 9:28, I take that to be involving His 2nd bodily coming in the end of this age and that it appears that maybe you don't.

Dear DavidPT,
Why do you believe Christ will have a second bodily coming?

Here is what scripture teaches:

Acts 3:20-21 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the HEAVEN MUST RECEIVE until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The restitution of "all things" happens at the end of the final age. Until that time, Christ will remain in "heaven" (the spiritual realm) and will never be seen with human eyes again.

I'll try to explain more fully below.

The Old Covenant of Law was physical and outward. It was man's attempt to try to be acceptable to God by their own works. Of course, this is not possible because mankind is spiritually flawed and carnally minded. So God gave the Law to Moses to prove to mankind that it cannot be done. Once a believer comes to this conclusion, it will lead them to Christ who will do ALL the work of saving us. For that reason, Christ came in the flesh to purchase mankind's sin debt and to earn the keys to death and hell. Once Christ was resurrected, Christ was given the power to resurrect mankind from their physical deaths. This is called the resurrection from the grave. But just giving mankind a new life, does not cure mankind's spiritually flawed and carnally minded condition which is the cause of our sin. Because of this truth, God started a New Covenant with mankind to change us spiritually - from the inside out. The Law could only work from the outside and was never going to be successful because mankind's sin problem is a spiritual problem. Under the New Covenant, Christ laid out a plan to save each and every person who has ever lived. He was sent by the Father to be the Savior of the world and that is exactly who He is. All who have died in Adam, will be made alive in Christ:

1 Cor 15:20-24 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

This "life" that Christ is going to give all who are in Adam (mankind) is not just the same sinful life we've had before. The life He is going to give us is a "more abundant" life:

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

In other words, mankind's new life will be a life free from sin along with a restored relationship with the Father.

Christ is going to accomplish His work of saving us because of His Grace and nothing else. Mankind does not have to provide any works or for that matter, we don't even have to give Christ our permission for Him to do His work within us.

Since Christ purchased mankind's sin debt by His work on the cross, we now owe Christ the debt of "death" that we owe. Contrary to popular belief, Christ did not die in our place so that we would not have to die. The Law of God cannot be broken. The soul that sinneth must die:

Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

But because Christ also earned the keys to death and hell, He has the power to resurrect us from the grave and give us a new life.

This brings us to the current spiritual work of Christ. Christ is going to come to each person who has ever lived and baptize us with the Holy Spirit. Once we are given this gift, we are spiritually born again and will never sin again. At least our new nature will never sin again. However, our Old Man is not destroyed at the time Christ baptizes us with His Spirit. But the Old Man's judgment of death does commence at that time and he will eventually be totally destroyed (ground to powder).

This gets us back to the question I asked you. Under the New Covenant, all of Christ's work to save each of us is spiritual work. That means it happens "within" us, in our hearts and minds because that is where mankind is deficient.

The second coming of Christ is "spiritual" and is the point in time where we are "born again". Christ's second coming has been happening over and over again to each of His chosen Elect since the time the Apostles first received the Holy Spirit in the upper room. Christ's second coming is not a one-time event to the world. It is a one-time spiritual event to each of His chosen Elect first and then in the next age, to all the rest of mankind.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

The Elect are also called the First-Fruits. They are the early portion of Christ's harvest of mankind and are blessed because they are saved first in this present age. In other words, their "days are shortened" and they do not have to wait until the end of the final age (time of the great harvest) to be saved.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

As I pointed out in my earlier posts, there is a pathway that Christ has laid out for mankind to travel in order to be saved. The First-Fruits will travel that pathway to its completion in this age. But all others will not complete the pathway until the end of the next age.

The pathway is presented in bits and pieces and in Christ's spiritual language in many, many places in scripture. But in order to understand and accept those verses of scripture, a believer must be given spiritual "eyes and ears". This means Christ must come to us and heal our spiritual blindness. Unless He does this work within us, the truth of scripture will remain a mystery.

Christ heals our blindness when He comes with the Latter Rain (Baptism of the Spirit). Once we can "see", the scriptures will open up to us and we will begin feasting on the Word of God for the first time. From this feasting, Christ will "appear" to us and He will destroy the Man of Sin whom we have become under Satan's deceptions (the spirit of anti-Christ). Once the Man of Sin is destroyed, we will start approaching Christ by faith alone and we will be "born again". At this point, we start traveling the Narrow path that leads to our glorification when we are resurrected from the grave. But before we are glorified, our Old Man who still remains must be judged and destroyed to satisfy the debt of death that we owe. This time of judgment occurs during the Day of the Lord and is called the "thousand years reign of Christ". He and the New Man within us will reign over and judge the Old Man until He is destroyed. This all happens before the Elect believer physically dies. Once the Old Man is destroyed, Satan will be loosed from the bottomless pit for a short season. While He is loose, He comes to us to test us, just as He tested Christ in the wilderness during His 40 days fast. But this isn't the first time that Satan came to us to test us. He first came to us after we received the Early Rain while we were still spiritually blind. At that time, we easily fell for his deceptions, but now, after Christ has baptized us with His Spirit, healed our spiritual blindness, destroyed our carnal nature and matured us into a son of God who produces spiritual fruit, the outcome will be much different. This time we will not fall for Satan's deception and will pass his test just as Christ passed his test in the wilderness.

There is much more I could say, but if I have lost you at this point, there is probably no need to give you more details of the pathway that we all must follow.

If you have any specific questions on where you believe I am in conflict with scripture, please ask because I know for certain that my understanding has no conflicts. The apparent conflicts are caused by 1). not understanding the spiritual nature of scripture or 2). by poor translations or 3. (and this is the most common reason), the reader's spiritual blindness and carnal nature is causing them to shape the meaning of scripture to fit their world paradigm.

If you can receive some of what I have presented, it is possible that Christ has started "appearing" to you and has given you the Latter Rain of the Spirit. If you believe this might be happening, then I strongly urge you to pray for understanding and for Him to open up the scriptures to you. When it happened to me, it happened "suddenly" and in "one hour" I could see the smoke of Mystery Babylon burning in the distance.

I do have my conversion testimony from Oct. 8th, 2005 posted in my user profile if you have an interest in reading it.

Joe

friend of · Aug 19, 2021

I just have one question for those who don't think the thousand years is literal reign. Is Isaiah 65:20 also symbolic then? How so?

parousia70 · Aug 19, 2021

DavidPT said:
God was the one who created time. He knows the difference between 24 hours and a thousand years.

Then you'd think He'd also know the difference between "shortly" and "two thousand years".....

Weird.

parousia70 · Aug 19, 2021

friend of said:
I just have one question for those who don't think the thousand years is literal reign. Is Isaiah 65:20 also symbolic then? How so?

Isaiah 65:20 is LITERALLY depicting the reality upon the New Heavens and Earth, which all agree is AFTER the Milennium.
Unless you believe Isaiah 65:17 is symbolic for the Millennium?

Only non-literalists view Isaiah 65:17-25 as the Millennium.

friend of · Aug 19, 2021

parousia70 said:
Unless you believe Isaiah 65:17 is symbolic for the Millennium?

It is. How is it not?

DavidPT · Aug 19, 2021

parousia70 said:
Then you'd think He'd also know the difference between "shortly" and "two thousand years".....

Weird.

Apparently, you are meaning concerning the book of Revelation. Why can't something shortly begin to pass where it results in other things coming to pass over a long period of time, rather than everything having to fit into one time period?

For example, when the pilgrims discovered America. Once that came to pass other things involving this same America began to come to pass, but not all in the same time period. In the same way, when things recorded in Revelation began to shortly come to pass during that period of time, it led to other things coming to pass as time goes on. How can Revelation 20:10-15 alone not prove that? We haven't even got there yet. Only a full Preterist might argue that Revelation 20:10-15 already came to pass ages ago, except I fail to see how they think there is any logic in that. You're not a full Preterist, though. So, I don't know how you can argue that things that must shortly come to pass, this applies to everything recorded in Revelation involving future events, meaning from John's perspective, that this only involves a period of time that they were living in at the time, and does not also involve any future periods of time.

parousia70 · Aug 19, 2021

friend of said:
It is. How is it not?

It's Literally Not.
There is no scripture that teaches that it is symbolic for the Millennium.

It is LITERALLY the New Heavens and Earth, Just as Isaiah testifies.

Here it is:
17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

parousia70 · Aug 19, 2021

DavidPT said:
Apparently, you are meaning concerning the book of Revelation. Why can't something shortly begin to pass where it results in other things coming to pass over a long period of time, rather than everything having to fit into one time period?

Let me test that with you:

How can Revelation 20:10-15 alone not prove that? We haven't even got there yet. Only a full Preterist might argue that Revelation 20:10-15 already came to pass ages ago

To quote you above, "Why can't it (Revelation 20:10-15) have Shortly Begin to pass where it results in other things coming to pass over a long period of time"

Here it is:
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

A couple things to note here.

1) Only the Dead are being Judged here. that means People who have lived, and Died.
Clearly this means someone would have to wait until they have died before they would be able to partake in this Judgment. If you're alive, you are corect. You're not there yet.

2) They are Judged by their works, not by their Faith. This is clearly an Old Covenant Judgment, not a New Covenant Judgment, where our faith is the measurement by which we are Judged.

You're not a full Preterist, though.

No, I am Not.

So, I don't know how you can argue that things that must shortly come to pass, this applies to everything recorded in Revelation involving future events, meaning from John's perspective, that this only involves a period of time that they were living in at the time, and does not also involve any future periods of time.

I can argue it because that's what it says, and Like you, I know God knows the difference between shortly, near, about to take place, at hand, Soon, a very little while - And - far off, a long time, thousands of years away... and that God knows how to corrctly, plainly communicate the difference to His people.

friend of · Aug 19, 2021

parousia70 said:
It is LITERALLY the New Heavens and Earth, Just as Isaiah testifies

So people die in the new heavens and new earth?

*mic drop*

FaithWillDo · Aug 19, 2021

friend of said:
I just have one question for those who don't think the thousand years is literal reign. Is Isaiah 65:20 also symbolic then? How so?

Dear friend of,
Yes, Isa 65:20 is written in Christ's spiritual language. The verse uses physical symbols to teach spiritual truths. It cannot be understood literally.

Isa 65:17 “For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.

Isa 65:18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.

Isa 65:19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.

Isa 65:20 “No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.

These verses are teaching about the Elect and the death of their carnal nature (Old Man).

In verse 17, it speaks of the new heaven and new earth which is representative of the Elect's new spiritual nature (Holy Spirit, mind of Christ).

In verse 18-19, it continues speaking about the New Jerusalem (the Elect of Christ) and the joy they bring God.

Then in verse 20, it continues praising the Elect.

Where it says " no more will an infant live but a few days", it is referring to the time when an Early Rain believer (a babe in Christ) "falls away" and spiritually dies. But Elect, who have the Latter Rain, will never "fall away" and spiritually die again as a babe in Christ. They will grow to maturity and become a New Man.

Where it says "nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days" is referencing the Elect, who, when they are old, will be spiritually matured (fulfilled their days).

Where it says "for the child shall die one hundred years old" is a reference to the death of the Elect's believer's Old Man. "One hundred years" is reference to "faith" which produces the child of God and causes their Old Man to die.

Finally, where it says "but the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed" is a reference to an Early Rain believer whose Old Man (the one who sins) has not died because they are not approaching Christ by faith. The Old Man is accursed because he only approaches Christ by his own works instead of by faith. If the believer would approach Christ "faith", their Old Man would die.

Essentially what I presented is the spiritual meaning of these verses. I'm sure I could have done a better job of explaining them but I didn't have a lot of time to work on this post. But from what I stated, you should be able to see what the verses say is not to be taken literally.

Here is another verse presented in Christ's spiritual language along with some additional teaching. This verse should also not be understood literally.

I wrote my comments below a few years ago and I am just copying them in here.

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. So if we are to understand it literally, then that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying. So is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

Since His “words are spirit”, His message must be spiritually understood. Christ’s spiritual message is quite different from what He is literally saying.

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using a spiritual “symbol” to give us His spiritual message. Here Christ uses the symbol of a Sword. To understand what that symbol means, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture – we must compare spiritual with spiritual.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From this example, it is easy to understand that a Sword represents the Word of God. So Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who live (those being “born again”) by the Word of God, must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Word of God.

Water baptism is another symbol which sends the same spiritual message as Matt 26:52. When an individual is baptized in water, the immersion represents the death of their carnal nature (Old Man). The ascension out of the water represents their new birth in Christ in the Kingdom of Heaven. This great work of conversion (salvation) is accomplished by the Word of God (Sword/Christ).

Spiritual understanding of scripture is further explained and expanded by 1Cor 2:13, Isa 28: 10-12 and Psa 119:160.

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

When a Called Out believer cannot understand the Word of God, their lack of understanding will cause them to “fall backward and be broken”. So what does to “fall backward and be broken” actually mean? This is the same as to “fall away” (Heb 6:4-6) and it means to return to one’s own attempt to be acceptable to God through their own works. This is the sin that leads to death (1John 5:16).

God’s Truth is also presented to us in bits and pieces, which means we must put those pieces together to see the truth:

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

Again, to correctly understand scripture, it must be understood spiritually. For this type of understanding to occur, we must first understand that the words used in scripture do not carry the same meaning as taught by man’s wisdom (1Cor 2:13). Christ’s words are spirit and we are told to understand their spiritual meaning by comparing them with the same spiritual words used elsewhere in scripture. We must compare spiritual with spiritual. We are to also keep in mind that “the sum of God’s Word is truth.

Have you ever wondered why there are so many different denominational churches in the world? The answer lies in the truth I have presented above.

You may be asking yourself why God made His Word so difficult to understand. I can assure you that He did not do it by mistake. God is purposely concealing Himself from this world so that He can reveal Himself to each individual at a time of His choosing.

Matt 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you (the Elect) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (those not Chosen) it is not given.

In scripture, the knowledge of God (which is fully found in Christ) is symbolized by Treasure.

Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

For most people, God has not chosen to reveal Himself to them at this time. So for them, He remains “hidden” Treasure. However, that does not mean that He will forget them and forever remain hidden from their eyes. Scripture promises us that will not be the case.

1Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1Cor 15: 22-23 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

During this present age, Christ is gathering in the First-fruits of His Harvest. These First-fruits are also called the Chosen, the Elect, the Heirs, the Overcomers, the Bride or the Saints. The remaining harvest of mankind will come later in the final age which God established from the beginning of creation. Contrary to popular belief, Christ is NOT working to save all mankind during this present age. He is only appearing (revealing Himself) to those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8 & Eph 1:11). We are totally dependent upon Christ for our salvation, even the timing of it. We cannot “choose” ourselves to be one of His “chosen”. Christ alone is the One who calls us, chooses us and empowers us to remain faithful unto the end. It is all His work. To claim otherwise, only proves that we have “fallen away” and are attempting to be acceptable to Christ through our own “works”.

For those who have presently been given “eyes that can see” and “ears that can hear”, Christ is appearing to them and revealing Himself. They are finding great treasure!

The book of Revelation depicts this great treasure of God. This book is the great unveiling of Jesus Christ within an individual - it is salvation. But to keep Christ concealed from those not chosen to receive its message, the book was “signified” to the apostle John. In other words, the Truth was presented in spiritual symbols. It is in no way literal. It is not a book about end-time prophecy or future coming world events. There is no literal Lake of Fire or coming Antichrist who rules the world. And for that matter, there is not even a literal throne room in heaven or a heaven with streets of gold. These are all physical symbols which represent spiritual truths.

Joe

friend of · Aug 19, 2021

I don't buy in to your whole "early rain" thing. Sorry

Timtofly · Aug 19, 2021

DavidPT said:
That doesn't even make sense.

That's not what the text indicates.

Psalms 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

The text indicates a thousand years in His sight when it is past, it is but as yesterday, and a watch in the night. Yesterday is only meaning one day, and in the same day meant, a watch in the night is part of that same day. That does not equal 1 day plus 3 hours, that equals one day.

For example, from our perspective, if a watch in the night happens during a 24 hour period, no one would say that 24 hour period equals 24 hours plus another 3 hours. That's 27 hours. That watch in the night happens during that same 24 hour period, and not during 3 hours post that 24 hour period. The same has to be true of the thousand years. But I don't expect some of you to get it no matter how I try and explain it.

You are the one who claims the same time is covered and means the same thing.

A day and a watch is from 6pm one day to the first watch of the next day. "And" is in addition to, not that "a day" equals "a watch".

So yes, if a watch is 3 hours, then a day and 3 hours.

If it just equals the "watch in the night", the term "yesterday" would not have been used at all. In fact you are removing "yesterday" yourself and leaving just "a watch in the night", to make your point.

Timtofly · Aug 20, 2021

parousia70 said:
Isaiah 65:20 is LITERALLY depicting the reality upon the New Heavens and Earth, which all agree is AFTER the Milennium.
Unless you believe Isaiah 65:17 is symbolic for the Millennium?

Only non-literalists view Isaiah 65:17-25 as the Millennium.

Non-literalist reject the Millennium. How can they think Isaiah 65 is about the Millennium? Non-literalist claim death and dying is not even mentioned. Non-literalist claim there are no infants and no old people in Isaiah 65.

Those who take God at His Word should point out that cursing and blessings are for the last Millennium, and have nothing to do with the NHNE at all. Blessings and curses, infants and old men pertain to the Millennium. The Millennium is a new heaven and earth, because humans will soon find out there is not an earth in a solar system. Heaven will be a totally different concept than they were taught. Also the earth was laid bare by the GT, and will be restored for the Millennium.

DavidPT · Aug 20, 2021

Timtofly said:
You are the one who claims the same time is covered and means the same thing.

A day and a watch is from 6pm one day to the first watch of the next day. "And" is in addition to, not that "a day" equals "a watch".

So yes, if a watch is 3 hours, then a day and 3 hours.

If it just equals the "watch in the night", the term "yesterday" would not have been used at all. In fact you are removing "yesterday" yourself and leaving just "a watch in the night", to make your point.

What I'm saying is this. Let's consider a 24 hour period of time, as an example. In that 24 hour period of time there is a watch in the night. When does the watch in the night occur? Some time during that 24 hour period of time or some time after that 24 hour period of time? How can it not be the former? Let's break it down even further to make sure.

This 24 hour period let's say it starts at 12 am on Monday and ends on 12 am on Tuesday. Let's then say there is a watch in the night on Monday that consists of 3 hours, such as 1 am to 4 am. When did this watch in the night take place? During this same 24 hours in question or after this 24 hours in question?

If one were to then say concerning this same 24 hours, this 24 hours in our sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night---how could a watch in the night be being applied to a time post this 24 hours when what I submitted above proves it applies to this 24 hours in question instead?

FaithWillDo · Aug 20, 2021

friend of said:
I don't buy in to your whole "early rain" thing. Sorry

Dear friend of,
The Early and Latter Rain is the core of the Great Mystery of Christ and His church (Eph 5:32). It is the most hidden teaching in scripture. But once you have "eyes" that can see it, you can find it taught in many places in scripture (Old and New Testaments)and especially by Christ in the four Gospels.
Joe

parousia70 · Aug 23, 2021

friend of said:
So people die in the new heavens and new earth?

In the Isaiah 65 account, he states in the New Heavens and earth there will be:
Birth
Ageing
Death
Sinners
Generational Procreation
Vocations/Labor/Work
The need for shelter
The need to eat food

You seem to take a different view than Isaiah took.
So, Isaiah was Wrong?

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Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

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