Are we saved by grace, faith, works of faith, repentance, election, or combination of these?

Are we saved by grace, faith, works of faith, repentance, election, or combination of these?

  • I am a Universalist. All will eventually be saved by God's grace.

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Bible Highlighter

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Why conclude I say the Bible is unimportant?

Because you said before that not everyone had access to the Bible throughout history.
This appears to suggest that people today do not need the Bible because it was not available at one time in the past. This in my view appeared to be a negative view or comment against God’s Word. I say this because we are living in the last days where people do not regard the Bible as the sole source for our faith and practice in following Jesus and in changing lives.

You said:
I certainly say it is needed, the Bible is needed in this world and believers were to have the revelation from God. But I did say, and still do, that it will not cost someone not having a Bible or having seen one their salvation. With repenting and coming to Christ for restoration to God they would be saved, God is not willing that any would perish. No passage in the Bible shows that any such would not be saved with not having scriptures they have access to. I can believe anyone anywhere in the world had opportunity for salvation being restored to God. The gospel is still to go out and to be spread, that opportunity for others is increased, and Bibles should be made more available.

Well, I think that if a believer is truly born again by the Holy Bible, they are going to have an experience with the Bible in such a way that they will be drawn to want to read it because they are changed and or born again spiritually by the Holy Spirit. If somebody has access to the Bible, and they simply refuse to receive the words of Jesus from the Holy Bible, that is a huge problem.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48).

What words of Jesus can judge us on the last day if we refused to receive them?

Oh, things like Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46 (cf. Luke 10:25-37), Luke 9:62, etc.

You said:
Other instructions are not an equivalent to the Bible.

What other instructions?

You said:
But as commandments are in the Bible, they are instructions for us to not keep sinning.

Do you believe that Christians need to overcome serious sins mentioned in the New Testament that God attaches with warnings of hellfire and or condemnation?

You said:
So you are speaking of KJV Only?

I believe God preserved His Word for us today. For divine inspiration is a waste of time if it was not divinely preserved throughout time. But yes, I believe the Cambridge Edition (circa. 1900) KJB edition is the perfect Word of God for today. God’s Word (the KJB) went through seven purifications as Psalms 12 talks about.

You said:
I know others also say babies who are aborted are saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I know of such having an abortion say the baby being aborted is saved by Jesus. You see the logic can promote abortions. If they are saved, babies should be aborted that they will all be saved. The Bible is really important. Do you have any passage from it for any such positions? I only know passages showing that salvation is with repentance and faith, there is response to God needed.

So you believe in a God that sends aborted babies to hell?

“But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Luke 18:16).

While I believe that if Jesus did not go to the cross and was not risen, we would all perish. But I believe because God loves us so much, such a possibility would have never happened. For God so loved the world. I imagine if we truly knew the depths of God it would bring us all to crumble before Him. So the love of God compelled the Son to die for us and to raise three days later to save mankind. Yes, I believe babies have the stain of sin upon their bodies from Adam, but Jesus reversed the curse of the sin of Adam because of His resurrection. Seeing this is the case, to say that babies who do not have the capacity to know of any good or evil are to be punished is monstrous at best. But then again, we are living in the last days.

King David said of his dead son (who was a baby):

“But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.” (2 Samuel 12:23).

Sin is not imputed where there is no Law (Romans 5:13). Babies are not aware of the Law and they really do not have the capacity to understand good and evil yet.

Bible Highlighter said:
“…if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” (Isaiah 8:20).
You said:
Again, what are you implying with this passage?

Well, actually Isaiah 8:20 is a verse and not a passage. While Isaiah 8:20 is a verse dealing with bad prophecies by false prophets in the OT times, I believe that this verse can also speak to us today, too.

I believe that a Christian should speak what God’s Word says and not their own beliefs that just pop up in their head that runs contrary to God’s Word. For example: If a believer claims to say that the Trinity is not true, I believe there is no light in them. Why? Because they are teaching extremely false doctrine.

“If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.” (2 John 1:10-11).

“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Bible Highlighter: "Yes, I believe babies have the stain of sin upon their bodies from Adam, but Jesus reversed the curse of the sin of Adam because of His resurrection. Seeing this is the case, to say that babies who do not have the capacity to know of any good or evil are to be punished is monstrous at best."


You see, you are a bible highlighter, but have not highlighted what the bible says here, about little children.

You showed that little children are of the Kingdom of God. That is correct, but needs more told to see what that says in all.




First, regarding the wicked, and how early they are wicked, it is right away, estranged from the womb, as soon as born..


Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.




God showed a judgement, as monstrous as it may seem, of little children being torn up by the curse from the Lord, because they showed their bad way of persecuting the Lords prophets ( which they grow up to do moreso by murdering them too)...


2 Kings 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.



The little ones had no knowledge between good and evil, and were not acting upon either, not that, that is not in them already waiting to be acted upon, as soon they would be if not instructed how to refuse the evil and to choose the good..


Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.



This is where the instruction of a father comes in, for the children to know understanding, to train the child in the way he should go, so they do not depart from the good..


Proverbs 4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.




Again,it is the same in the new testament, the little children, have something missing, which is told for you what that is, Christ required to be formed in them, and then the little children know the Father, ( which the children of Israel did not get to know in that first faulty covenant as they did not continue in His word).

The little children, it is witnessed, need to abide in Christ ( in that only begotten Son of God) to not be ashamed before Him, to be doing righteousness, to be righteous, as even He ( the only begotten Son/only child of God) is righteous, or no man can see Him, which is no person ( they become converted by receiving the Holy Ghost to be that little child of Jesus in them the only begotten Son of God from the dead) .

The little children overcome this world, as Jesus overcame, that shows the way for the little children to be begotten, by the Son of God being in them and by then keeping themselves from idols..


Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

1 John 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
 
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prophecy_uk

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"We are saved by grace, which justifies us through faith (in Christ) and through works (as we obey Him and live for Him and love others)."

And we are not saved, by evil works, which deny Him, which denies grace, by loving ourselves instead of others as predicted and fulfilled..

2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
 
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You see, you are a bible highlighter, but have not highlighted what the bible says here, about little children.

You showed that little children are of the Kingdom of God. That is correct, but needs more told to see what that says in all.

So you believe babies go to hell when they are aborted?
If so, I am afraid for you. The Bible should not have to give a person a moral compass or common sense on what is right or wrong (if that is indeed what you believe).

As for my highlighting a few verses on babies being saved:
So do you not believe the verses I brought forth?

You said:
First, regarding the wicked, and how early they are wicked, it is right away, estranged from the womb, as soon as born..

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Babies typically speak in 12-18 months so it would be impossible for them to lie before that time. This speaks of how mankind has a sin nature.
So this is obviously speaking metaphorically or not accounting for the stretch of time it takes for babies to speak in order to be able to tell a lie.

You said:
God showed a judgement, as monstrous as it may seem, of little children being torn up by the curse from the Lord, because they showed their bad way of persecuting the Lords prophets ( which they grow up to do moreso by murdering them too)...

2 Kings 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

When Solomon takes the throne at about the age of twenty, he describes himself as a na‘ar qaton (1 Kings 3:7). Obviously, he and Hadad were not elementary-aged, little boys!

Thus, at a bare minimum, we can say it’s highly unlikely the people who mocked Elisha were “little children” or “small boys” but they were teenagers or young men.

So we have to understand that the KJB is speaking figuratively and not literally here.
It most likely does so because it is speaking of their spiritual state or lack of maturity in insulting a prophet of God.

Also, the text does not say that all 42 of them were killed by the she bears. Maybe they were killed, and or maybe they were not killed but only injured. In either case, the attack showed that God was not to be messed with, and that a horrible tragedy can sometimes merely the result of one’s own sin.

You said:
Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

This further proves my point with the she bear incident. How can children take possession of the land?
So either the children grew up and took possession of the land or they were simply young men.

You said:
This is where the instruction of a father comes in, for the children to know understanding, to train the child in the way he should go, so they do not depart from the good..


Proverbs 4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Not in disagreement with theses verses and I fail to see how this has anything to do with aborted babies going to hell (if that is what you believe).

You said:
Again,it is the same in the new testament, the little children, have something missing, which is told for you what that is, Christ required to be formed in them, and then the little children know the Father, ( which the children of Israel did not get to know in that first faulty covenant as they did not continue in His word).

The little children, it is witnessed, need to abide in Christ ( in that only begotten Son of God) to not be ashamed before Him, to be doing righteousness, to be righteous, as even He ( the only begotten Son/only child of God) is righteous, or no man can see Him, which is no person ( they become converted by receiving the Holy Ghost to be that little child of Jesus in them the only begotten Son of God from the dead) .

The little children overcome this world, as Jesus overcame, that shows the way for the little children to be begotten, by the Son of God being in them and by then keeping themselves from idols..


Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

1 John 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Again, this most likely was referring to younger men; However, I am not in disagreement that believers need to enter the Sanctification Process (in living holy by God’s power) as a part of God’s plan of salvation after they are saved by God’s grace through faith in Christ. So I am not your average Christian who thinks that believers can sin and still be saved or that we must sin at some point because we cannot control ourselves. This kind of popular thinking in the church is wrong. Believers must eventually overcome grievous sin that the Bible condemns with warnings of hellfire or condemnation or they are not going to make it into the Kingdom.
 
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prophecy_uk

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"So you believe babies go to hell when they are aborted?"


Gods judgement on the whole world was shown, all perished, because none on earth, from the youngest to the oldest, where capable of believing in God, as Noah did, to be saved from destruction, and Noah did warn everybody of the flood, as warning needs to be given, God dong that only, as God shows in the entire scriptures, by every warner of God that we see speaking in the name of God.



2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;



Then, what happens next ?

They go to their fathers, they shall NEVER SEE LIGHT.

They who understand not, perish..



Psalm 49:19 He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light.
20 Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.




Then, we remember Job cursing his day, wanting to die from his mothers womb, to never be born, to never have to see light.

Then, we see, that is sleeping with counsellors of the earth ( worldly wisdom) and princes who had gold ( that was their earthly treasure instead of Heavenly)

Or with infants which never saw light, and Job to never have seen light, all going to where the wicked cease from troubling, the small and the great are there in death..


Job 3:10 Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
12 Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
14 With kings and counsellors of the earth, which build desolate places for themselves;
15 Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
17 There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
18 There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
19 The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.


That is why death has to be overcome, and avoided, not we continue to go there.

So those who die in the Lord ( which is taken out of the route if death all went to) are blessed, thioe dead only..




Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.




As taught, when a man is enabled to keep the saying of the only one to overcome death, the only and first begotten of the dead Jesus Christ, then we never see death ) otherwise we see death)

Only by believing in Jesus, ( His rising from the dead to eternal life) do we live, even though dead, and the living believing in Jesus then and therefore, never die..


John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?



Then, we witnessing, and showing our belief through our deeds on earth as Jesus did, believe in Jesus being the first begotten of the dead, this as told, begets us to a lively hope again, as we previously died without hope( they remain dead without faith which is to hope against hope being without belief in God in the world).

So to be saved, is by hope, hope in God in the world/belief in Him and HI manifested sways, or there is no faith, no saving..



Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,


1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?



"Babies typically speak in 12-18 months so it would be impossible for them to lie before that time. This speaks of how mankind has a sin nature.
So this is obviously speaking metaphorically or not accounting for the stretch of time it takes for babies to speak in order to be able to tell a lie."


That's right, the wicked are against God from the womb, are already that way, and when somebody is delayed, or unable to talk, it is a delay of what occurs, always, showing what is in man. It would be wrong for the whole world to be flooded otherwise, unless there was no hope of anyone growing up to be righteous.



"Thus, at a bare minimum, we can say it’s highly unlikely the people who mocked Elisha were “little children” or “small boys” but they were teenagers or young men.

So we have to understand that the KJB is speaking figuratively and not literally here.
It most likely does so because it is speaking of their spiritual state or lack of maturity in insulting a prophet of God."



I wonder why your attempts, are to try to show no little children receive harm ever ?

unfortunately, the flood on the WORLD OF THE UNGODLY, STOPS YOU, I do not need to say more, it is known what everybody is.




Then we understand back again, that when it records little children, it is as it says, unfortunately.

It serves little purpose ( as is your purpose so far) to show this is grown ups behaving with evil, but it is terrifying to know this was done on little children.

Nowhere does God make anything unclear, if it was grown ups, it would have said so.



But it emphasizes, the children did as children did, to tease somebody, and how those childish things need to be put away ( which we know why the little children did evil to somebody, because the world teaches evil to children of their own ways)..


1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.




"This further proves my point with the she bear incident. How can children take possession of the land?
So either the children grew up and took possession of the land or they were simply young men."



No, this just shows how your only interest is in proving your points, so you try to use anything at hand.


There is No relation to the bears, who tore up/killed 42 little children, as little children do tease and do evil, hence why the flood came on the world of the UNGODLY. Maybe you can explain why it did regarding all..


Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.




The children were spoken of in past tense, because as soon as they left Egypt, battles began, and worry began if they will survive.

Numbers 14, gives the same account, the people this time it shows, worried for wives and children, ( that is who they did not worry about in the time of the flood that swept all wives and children away)

God confirmed, they shall all die, men and women, but the next generation would be preserved ( until they do the same and all died in exile again). The children first bore the evil of the ones who despised the land...


Numbers 14:3 And wherefore hath the Lord brought us unto this land, to fall by the sword, that our wives and our children should be a prey? were it not better for us to return into Egypt?
4 And they said one to another, Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt.

Numbers 14:31 But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.
32 But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.



Then, the verses were put for us to see, that unless the children are trained up by Gods ways ( God dwelling in man through Christ only) they can only turn out wicked..


Proverbs 4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.



"Again, this most likely was referring to younger men"



It still continues from training up a child in the way he should go.

To understand, Christ needs to be formed in us, or we go astray, ( from the womb)

That is how we understand, the correct little children ( those with the little child Christ formed in them being the only begotteon child/ Son of the Father) know the Father, as what other little children know the Father..


Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

1 John 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
 
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"So you believe babies go to hell when they are aborted?"


Gods judgement on the whole world was shown, all perished, because none on earth, from the youngest to the oldest, where capable of believing in God, as Noah did, to be saved from destruction, and Noah did warn everybody of the flood, as warning needs to be given, God dong that only, as God shows in the entire scriptures, by every warner of God that we see speaking in the name of God.



2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;



Then, what happens next ?

They go to their fathers, they shall NEVER SEE LIGHT.

They who understand not, perish..



Psalm 49:19 He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light.
20 Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish.




Then, we remember Job cursing his day, wanting to die from his mothers womb, to never be born, to never have to see light.

Then, we see, that is sleeping with counsellors of the earth ( worldly wisdom) and princes who had gold ( that was their earthly treasure instead of Heavenly)

Or with infants which never saw light, and Job to never have seen light, all going to where the wicked cease from troubling, the small and the great are there in death..


Job 3:10 Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
11 Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
12 Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
14 With kings and counsellors of the earth, which build desolate places for themselves;
15 Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
17 There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
18 There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
19 The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.


That is why death has to be overcome, and avoided, not we continue to go there.

So those who die in the Lord ( which is taken out of the route if death all went to) are blessed, thioe dead only..




Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.




As taught, when a man is enabled to keep the saying of the only one to overcome death, the only and first begotten of the dead Jesus Christ, then we never see death ) otherwise we see death)

Only by believing in Jesus, ( His rising from the dead to eternal life) do we live, even though dead, and the living believing in Jesus then and therefore, never die..


John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?



Then, we witnessing, and showing our belief through our deeds on earth as Jesus did, believe in Jesus being the first begotten of the dead, this as told, begets us to a lively hope again, as we previously died without hope( they remain dead without faith which is to hope against hope being without belief in God in the world).

So to be saved, is by hope, hope in God in the world/belief in Him and HI manifested sways, or there is no faith, no saving..



Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,


1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Romans 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?



"Babies typically speak in 12-18 months so it would be impossible for them to lie before that time. This speaks of how mankind has a sin nature.
So this is obviously speaking metaphorically or not accounting for the stretch of time it takes for babies to speak in order to be able to tell a lie."


That's right, the wicked are against God from the womb, are already that way, and when somebody is delayed, or unable to talk, it is a delay of what occurs, always, showing what is in man. It would be wrong for the whole world to be flooded otherwise, unless there was no hope of anyone growing up to be righteous.



"Thus, at a bare minimum, we can say it’s highly unlikely the people who mocked Elisha were “little children” or “small boys” but they were teenagers or young men.

So we have to understand that the KJB is speaking figuratively and not literally here.
It most likely does so because it is speaking of their spiritual state or lack of maturity in insulting a prophet of God."



I wonder why your attempts, are to try to show no little children receive harm ever ?

unfortunately, the flood on the WORLD OF THE UNGODLY, STOPS YOU, I do not need to say more, it is known what everybody is.




Then we understand back again, that when it records little children, it is as it says, unfortunately.

It serves little purpose ( as is your purpose so far) to show this is grown ups behaving with evil, but it is terrifying to know this was done on little children.

Nowhere does God make anything unclear, if it was grown ups, it would have said so.



But it emphasizes, the children did as children did, to tease somebody, and how those childish things need to be put away ( which we know why the little children did evil to somebody, because the world teaches evil to children of their own ways)..


1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.




"This further proves my point with the she bear incident. How can children take possession of the land?
So either the children grew up and took possession of the land or they were simply young men."



No, this just shows how your only interest is in proving your points, so you try to use anything at hand.


There is No relation to the bears, who tore up/killed 42 little children, as little children do tease and do evil, hence why the flood came on the world of the UNGODLY. Maybe you can explain why it did regarding all..


Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.




The children were spoken of in past tense, because as soon as they left Egypt, battles began, and worry began if they will survive.

Numbers 14, gives the same account, the people this time it shows, worried for wives and children, ( that is who they did not worry about in the time of the flood that swept all wives and children away)

God confirmed, they shall all die, men and women, but the next generation would be preserved ( until they do the same and all died in exile again). The children first bore the evil of the ones who despised the land...


Numbers 14:3 And wherefore hath the Lord brought us unto this land, to fall by the sword, that our wives and our children should be a prey? were it not better for us to return into Egypt?
4 And they said one to another, Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt.

Numbers 14:31 But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.
32 But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.



Then, the verses were put for us to see, that unless the children are trained up by Gods ways ( God dwelling in man through Christ only) they can only turn out wicked..


Proverbs 4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.



"Again, this most likely was referring to younger men"



It still continues from training up a child in the way he should go.

To understand, Christ needs to be formed in us, or we go astray, ( from the womb)

That is how we understand, the correct little children ( those with the little child Christ formed in them being the only begotteon child/ Son of the Father) know the Father, as what other little children know the Father..


Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

1 John 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

People have quoted the Bible to do horrible things. This is wrong. I believe it is the same when people have wrong beliefs about God and His Word, as well. Hardcore or High Calvinists will use the Bible to say that God has even predetermined sin and they use the Bible to defend this viewpoint. I believe this is morally wrong to say this. If you don’t accept basic morality (in the fact that you imply aborted babies go to hell), and how that is not in conflict with the goodness of God and His Word, then we are done talking. For High Calvinists believe in this kind of thing.

Anyways, I alone cannot teach you basic morality (in that it is wrong to imply that aborted babies go to hell); Only your own conscience and God can do that.

So I am moving on from talking to you.

Have a good day.
 
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I will answer what was unanswered.

In the flood, the world was condemned, it was man who was drowned, in the image of God. Because of the lifestyle of man, seeing the daughters of men, and marrying who they chose...

Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

The punishment was destruction, and death.

It was on all who had breath, which was children, women, men, older men, older women, women who were pregnant, all had the same outcome, which is death, and the scriptures tell us in death, they remain dead, it is our long home. Ecclesiastes 12:5.


On top of that, all in Adam die, all in Christ shall be made alive, so all without the knowledge of Christ in their changed soul, cant see life..

2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Matthew 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The judgement of God was shown to all of this world, all were guilty of death, or why were they not spared ? The young ones that were alive, knew no good, or would not receive the same CONDEMNATION, AS worded for Sodom, the ungodly were condemned with an OVERTHROW....

2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Then in Adam all die ( and remain in death)

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
 
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Mercy Shown

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Sanctification is living holy. This includes loving others and not focusing on yourself. It is picking up your cross and denying yourself to follow Jesus (Which is all about the loving of God and others).



The word sanctified means to be cleansed. The Bible has homonyms within it. Words can have multiple meanings and they can be used differently depending on the context. So yes. While we are cleansed in the 1st aspect of salvation in being saved by God’s grace through believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and in seeking forgiveness of our sins with Jesus (Romans 10:13) (Luke 18:9-14), we do also have to answer the call of the gospel, too. The call of the gospel is…. God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14). This sanctification is mentioned in Romans 8:13. For if you live after the flesh, you will die, but if you put to death the deeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live (See: Romans 8:13). 2 Corinthians 7:1 says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Why in the fear of God do we need to perfect holiness according to 2 Corinthians 7:1? Most today just sweep verses like this under the carpet and run and cling to their Easy Believism gospel.



Yeah, that’s seriously unbiblical. We need to walk in the light as he is in the light and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (See: 1 John 1:7). What is walking in the light mean? It means loving your brother according to the indirect wording found in 1 John 2:9-11. For “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10). Is somebody who is not of God saved?



“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24).
So to be clear, you are a works person. Do you believe we must, at least, in part earn our own salvation?

Now we could have a text war over this with you cherry-picking texts that fit your doctrine and me picking the opposite but how would that be constructive.

All of these wonderful texts you are relying on to show that we must work our way to heaven, I read as being written to already saved people as instructions of what God wants for them to do. I walk in the light because I am saved and not to be saved. In fact, if you read the greeting of all of the epistles from which you gathered your "works" texts from you will see that they are written to those already saved.

You see, I read these texts as an opportunity to return thanks to God for His salvation. Behavior comes from the heart and if it has been cleansed by Christ, then clean works will proceed from it. If it is full of sin and darkness, then sin bad behavior will follow.

I have no fear because God is for me.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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So to be clear, you are a works person.

Actually, I prefer to call myself a Bible person because I am believing what the Bible plainly says.
Can you say you believe 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 plainly in what it says?
Yes, it is true; The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.
But did you know that there a call of the gospel?
According to the Bible (and not how you wish things to be):
The call of the gospel is…. God has chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Please stop right now and check the passage for yourself and read it very slowly in the King James Bible (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

Do you believe the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness? (Matthew 25:30).
Why would you want to have the same characteristic as vain deceivers who do deny God in the fact that they are reprobate unto every good work? (Titus 1:16). For surely if we are saved without works, then we can be like vain deceivers and be reprobate unto every good work and still be saved. But surely vain deceivers are not saved, right?

You said:
Do you believe we must, at least, in part earn our own salvation?

We are initially and foundationally saved by God’s grace. Salvation is received a gift when we receive Jesus as our Savior (John 1:12), we seek forgiveness of our sins with Him (Romans 10:13) (Luke 18:9-14), and we believe the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 that basically says that we believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation. If a believer happens to on rare occasion to stumble, they do not do a good work to redeem that sin, but they go to God’s grace by confessing their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Proverbs 28:13, Hebrews 4:16).

Eternal life or Salvation is a person named Jesus Christ. For Christ alone possesses immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). For he that has the Son has life, and He that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). For Jesus is one of the major gifts we receive. For Jesus is eternal life (1 John 5:20). For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son (John 3:16). But how do we have an assurance that we know Jesus and thus… have eternal life? By keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3). Note: This would not be the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal, and neither would this be the keeping of the ceremonial OT laws like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, and holy days, etc.). Believers are to follow the commands that come from Jesus and His apostles in the New Testament. For the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4). What truth is not in them? Jesus. For Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). This is why Matthew 13:41-42 will take place. For the Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS kingdom (Christ’s kingdom) all who do iniquity (sin), and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). In other words, a person can be in Christ’s kingdom and later cast out by Christ’s angels if they justify sin and or evil. For John 12:48 says he (the person) who does not receive Christ’s words, those words will judge them on the last day. What words? Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, etc.

You said:
Now we could have a text war over this with you cherry-picking texts that fit your doctrine and me picking the opposite but how would that be constructive.

So you don’t think a person can know the truth by quoting Scripture to others?

You said:
All of these wonderful texts you are relying on to show that we must work our way to heaven, I read as being written to already saved people as instructions of what God wants for them to do. I walk in the light because I am saved and not to be saved.

1 John 1:7 is not written in the way you desire.
If 1 John 1:7 was as you say, then it would say: Those who believe in Jesus walk in the light and they will automatically continue to walk in the light and the blood of Jesus cleanses them of all sin. Also, 1 John 2:9-11 would not also exist in your view of Soteriology, as well.

1 John 1:7 says IF we walk in the light. So it’s not a guarantee.
The reader says…. WE and so he includes himself in this conditional promise.
IF we walk in the light.
What is walking in the light?
As I said before it is loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.
For the polar opposite of walking in darkness and hating your brother is walking in the light and loving your brother. So we must love our brother in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin. Yes, Romans 3:25 is true, too. But so also is 1 John 1:7 of which you ignore like many today.

In fact, if you read the greeting of all of the epistles from which you gathered your "works" texts from you will see that they are written to those already saved.

Like most, you do not understand that salvation has different aspects to it. A person can be saved initially by God’s grace, but they can later fall away and become unfruitful.

The parable of the sower is a good example of this (See: Matthew 13;18-23, and Luke 8:11-15).
Jesus also says that in John 15:5-6 that the branch must abide in the vine and it will bear forth fruit. But if the branch does not abide in the vine, it be cut off and thrown into the fire. John the Baptist says a similar thing in that the axe is laid to the root of the tree. For every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down (Matthew 3:10).

You said:
I have no fear because God is for me.

“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:18).

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).
 
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Brightfame52

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Majority of men today dont believe nor understand that Salvation through Christ is 100 % by Grace. Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Jesus Christ death for His Sheep is by Gods Grace Heb 2:9;13:20

He Himself is the Gift of God Jn 4:10

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Faith is the Gift of God Eph 2:8 because we believe through Grace Acts 18:27 !
 
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Majority of men today dont believe nor understand that Salvation through Christ is 100 % by Grace. Rom 5:15

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Jesus Christ death for His Sheep is by Gods Grace Heb 2:9;13:20

He Himself is the Gift of God Jn 4:10

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Faith is the Gift of God Eph 2:8 because we believe through Grace Acts 18:27 !

These pieces of Scripture are not proof of saying that salvation does not also include the Sanctification Process after we are saved by God's grace. They only prove the 1st aspect of salvation in being initially saved by His grace and it does not mean that nothing else is needed in God's plan of salvation after we are saved by His grace. Try reading 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 sometime really slowing. What is the call of the gospel according to that passage?
 
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prophecy_uk

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Mercy Shown: "Now we could have a text war over this with you cherry-picking texts that fit your doctrine and me picking the opposite but how would that be constructive.

All of these wonderful texts you are relying on to show that we must work our way to heaven, I read as being written to already saved people as instructions of what God wants for them to do."

"I have no fear because God is for me."


No, you cant have a text war, because the word is living, it is God, and all not only goes together, but is essential, to fully have God within you, teaching you, and exhorting you st all times.

This is how, and why, all scripture is profitible for us, for reproof and instruction in righteousness, only a fool has said they hold no purpose for him.

Then, we understand how they have no fear, because they consider they are in the light ( when they do not know the light is darkness and were told to take heed about that) and then fail to be furnished to all of the good works, as they spoke their own word, that the words were no ,longer relevant for them..

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Ecclesiastes 8:13 But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he feareth not before God.
 
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prophecy_uk

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Bible Highlighter "If a believer happens to on rare occasion to stumble, they do not do a good work to redeem that sin, but they go to God’s grace by confessing their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Proverbs 28:13, Hebrews 4:16)."




BibleHighlighter, why do you have this name, when I have to highlight all you show, that cannot be right ?

Proverbs 28:13, you quoted, so you must know what is said there ? To confess and forsake sins. It did not say to forsake them and find them again .


Is that not what is told, in 1 John 1, that to have fellowship equally with the Apostles and believers, is walking in the same light ( of the Lord) which holds and has no darkness in it, and then that being the purpose and the sense, to be cleaned from all unrighteousness/darkness works ?



1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Your next age quote, continuing on from that, of knowing the Lord by keeping His same ways ( fellowshipping in the light with Him as just testified) and notice the bigger witness, how keeping the word is also the love of God perfected, which is the knowing Him ( and how is perfected, meaning, stumbling on occasion ?)..

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.


Again ( and maybe you will not acknowledge all I show here, as you had enough time with talking to me, you said) Either you read, or the ones talking with you can see, your last example here states the same yet again, how it is not for those stumbling on occasion, but is worded very differently, it is told to be HOLDING FAST our profession, knowing Jesus had the same trials, and being without sin, is knowing Him, to go to that grace that avoids the ALL POINT SAME temptations..


Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.



God ONLY allows the temptations, which we are able to bear( and overcome) by MAKING A WAY TO ESCAPE..


1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.




Bible Highlighter: "If a believer happens to on rare occasion to stumble"



Now bible highligter, if you had a conscience you would be very ashamed, of this right now, or not ? Your name is lighter, yet your word says, "on occasion to stumble" ( your word, as it is against Gods word directly) and Gods word says exactly, none occasion of stumbling, for those abiding in the LIGHT...


1 John 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.



You just have to see first also in John 11, stumbling not comes by seeing the light of the day, and the ones of the night stumble: BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.


Children of the light and of the day, are not of the night, nor of darkness/works of darkness/sin.


Take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day star arise in your hearts..



John 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

John 11:10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:




Shall not stumble, even when you run you shall not stumble, the way of the wicked is in darkness, that is WHY, they do not KNOW, at what they STUMBLE..



Proverbs 3:23 Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble.

Proverbs 4:12 When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.

Proverbs 4:19 The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.



The word tells us, we stumble at the word of righteousness, offended at the word of obedience of faith, being appointed to disobedience ( and wrath)..



1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.






Bible Highlighter: "Like most, you do not understand that salvation has different aspects to it. A person can be saved initially by God’s grace, but they can later fall away and become unfruitful.

The parable of the sower is a good example of this (See: Matthew 13;18-23, and Luke 8:11-15).
Jesus also says that in John 15:5-6 that the branch must abide in the vine and it will bear forth fruit."





Luckily bible highlighter, I am here to let you see what the verses, speak when placed together, for the sense.

The words say, they fall away, or, the word is, choked ( when first heard) and becomes unfruitful, meaning bears no fruit, or stopped producing fruit ?



Matthew 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.



Now, having kindness and charity in us, they make us to never be unfruitful.

The blind are the unfruitful, by never having charity and kindness in them ( or as testified, when abound in man, they can never be unfruitful)...


2 Peter 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.



But there is more testimony, the ones of darkness are unfruitful, they are without fruit, it is withered, they are the corrupt tree bringing forth evil fruit, which is, grapes of thorns and figs of thistles...



Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

Matthew 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?



So, not only the evil tree could never bring forth the fruit ( were never fruitful as the wicked are the unfruitful) they bring only thistles and thorns forth.

Knowing that witness, we understand those who bear thorns and briers are rejected, they are the falling away, not as bible highlighter invented, "A person can be saved initially by God’s grace, but they can later fall away and become unfruitful."


But the just lives by faith, by not drawing back/falling away, who are impossible to renew to repentance, and the ones of faith are NOT THOSE WHO DRAW BACK TO PERDIITION ( no falling away, no beginning producing fruit then being unfruitful) as the falling away has come now, for all on earth, so they choose the falling away doctrine which i deception on earth now..


Hebrews 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.


Hebrews 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 
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Again Faith, or Believing on Christ for Salvation is a Gift given Phil 1:29

For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him,
but also to suffer for his sake;

The word here given is the greek word charizomai derived from charis Grace, as in
  1. a gift of grace
    1. to give graciously, give freely, bestow And the word bestow means:

      1. to present as a gift; give; confer (usually followed by on or upon):
        The trophy was bestowed upon the winner
 
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Brightfame52

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Forgiveness of sins, Pardon, the cancellation of the sin debt, is a Gift. Again Phil 1:29 where it says they're given to believe on Christ, a Gift, that same word for given carries with it the truth of forgiveness, its the word charizomai and means:

  1. to grant forgiveness, to pardon

    Paul uses it in Rom 8:32

    He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up[As a Gift] for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    He gives forgiveness/pardon to those He delivered up Christ for. Its a Gift with Christ ! Thats why they're Justified as a Free Gift Rom 4:25 !
 
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prophecy_uk

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Brightfame:

"He gives forgiveness/pardon to those He delivered up Christ for. Its a Gift with Christ ! Thats why they're Justified as a Free Gift Rom 4:25 !"



We are justified, when and how God tells us/examples for us.

That is why, and how, Jesus explains that the ones who humble themselves, ( enabled and gifted by God to do so) are justified, rather than the exalted/who think they are eternally saved)

But then again, they don't want to hear that not the hearers are justified, but the doers are justified..


Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


As God does gift salvation, and also does as testified regarding that, justifies us and glorifies us( before all men fell short of the glory of God through sinning)...


Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.



We were not sanctified, now we are sanctified, washed, justified in the name of Christ. Then the just live by faith ( being faithful as Abraham was)


1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


Speaking more of the testimony for justification and Abraham, Abraham justified by works, offering his son, as the Father offered the Son for us ( God does works and is faith)..




James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Speaking of Gods words which are faith, Christ/God was justified in the Spirit, by being believed on in the world, witnessing His works of righteousness against the sinning hypocrites/exalted, then died for that righteousness gift, which receives Him and us ( if we believe all God worked for justification of life) up into glory, as those He justified He also glorified..


1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
 
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Brightfame52

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Brightfame:

"He gives forgiveness/pardon to those He delivered up Christ for. Its a Gift with Christ ! Thats why they're Justified as a Free Gift Rom 4:25 !"



We are justified, when and how God tells us/examples for us.

That is why, and how, Jesus explains that the ones who humble themselves, ( enabled and gifted by God to do so) are justified, rather than the exalted/who think they are eternally saved)

But then again, they don't want to hear that not the hearers are justified, but the doers are justified..


Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


As God does gift salvation, and also does as testified regarding that, justifies us and glorifies us( before all men fell short of the glory of God through sinning)...


Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.



We were not sanctified, now we are sanctified, washed, justified in the name of Christ. Then the just live by faith ( being faithful as Abraham was)


1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Galatians 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.


Speaking more of the testimony for justification and Abraham, Abraham justified by works, offering his son, as the Father offered the Son for us ( God does works and is faith)..




James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Speaking of Gods words which are faith, Christ/God was justified in the Spirit, by being believed on in the world, witnessing His works of righteousness against the sinning hypocrites/exalted, then died for that righteousness gift, which receives Him and us ( if we believe all God worked for justification of life) up into glory, as those He justified He also glorified..


1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
You appear to be promoting a cleverly disguised system of salvation by works my friend. Salvation by what a person does.
 
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prophecy_uk

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"You appear to be promoting a cleverly disguised system of salvation by works my friend. Salvation by what a person does."

But there is no disguise or cleverness in you, all you did was ignore Gods words in my answer for you, and instead continue on with your own wishes, even by highlighting only your own words again.

Salvation by non works, is then what you promote.


The purpose of this is, the predictions of the devil at the end of he world, but see it directly, see what that promotes for you, how the disguise is the devil as the angel of light, and the promotion by his angel in the deceivers is to do unrighteousness in their teaching/works., as they are DECEITFUL WORKERS, WHOSE END IS according to their works...


2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
 
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