The Mark of the Beast

Sabertooth · Aug 14, 2021

Douggg said:
btw, it is the mark of his name - from Revelation 14:11

IMHO, even though that verse only repeats one form, I believe that it applies to all of its forms.

klutedavid · Aug 14, 2021

Dave L said:
All of the Protestants believe(ed) the Papacy is the Antichrist. It's in their church creeds.

That was in the time frame of the fourteenth century to the seventeenth century. Not sure if the Roman Catholic Church in 2021, would be considered a player in the game now. The Roman Catholic church has lost nearly all it's power and most of it's churches.

eclipsenow · Aug 15, 2021

Weirdly - we have to go to Deuteronomy's 'Shema' - the prayer of devotion to God - to understand the mark of the beast.

Deuteronomy 6:4-8 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads."

Then when we come to Revelation 13, we have Military power represented in the first beast and the propaganda machine for Economic power in the second beast.

Now, what's with the 666? First, the Hebrew number symbolism is significant, in that 6 is the number of a man. It's the number of the day we were created on, the days of the week we work, and short of God's perfect 7.

There's also another potential twist - the gematria (taking Hebrew letters as numbers) for both "BEAST" and / or "Nero Caesar" apparently both equal 666 when added up from the Hebrew.

In other words, don't bind your politics and materialism to your hands and forehead. Don't worship your leader or money. Stay true to Christ - no matter what happens. Jesus is worth it. Instead - be one of those in the very next Chapter that have their Father's name written on their foreheads!

This video explains more - 11 minutes for the second half of Revelation - well worth it. Share at church! 2.1 million views so far

Dave L · Aug 15, 2021

klutedavid said:
That was in the time frame of the fourteenth century to the seventeenth century. Not sure if the Roman Catholic Church in 2021, would be considered a player in the game now. The Roman Catholic church has lost nearly all it's power and most of it's churches.

If you look at Papal doctrines in Evangelical Churches, you can see the Antichrist still sits in the temple of God only more seductively. But you must find out what those doctrines are. Only a few know.

alertandawake · Aug 15, 2021

Douggg said:
from that link...

Depending on the intended punctuation of v. 17, the mark of the Beast will take either two or three forms. Only one of them is a number.

That means that some will choose an alternative that contains no number at all. (That rules out distinct ID codes for each individual. Such would have to be universal to work.)

_________________________________________________

That's a good point.

mark of his name
the number of his name
his name

btw, it is the mark of his name - from Revelation 14:11

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The Greek word for name here is onoma (look up G3686 ) and there looks like other words that could be used instead of name, like authority or character.

So going by everything in context, those who get "the mark" they will be given permission to continue to function in society (going out to the shops, work, and so on) these are every day activities.

But there is something at this stage, that I do not know for certain, and that is if the "buying" aspect is in relation to people physically being able to travel to the shops, or could it include everything (online and physically going to a shop)

The word "beheaded" that is used in Rev 20.4, there is another translation (check out biblehub for various translations) and instead of the word beheaded there is the word "cut off" used in its place. The greek word for "beheaded" in Rev 20.4 is a different greek word compared to what is used in Luke 9.9, Mark 6.16 and 6.27, and Matt 14.10. There must be a reason for this.

Hammster · Aug 15, 2021

TribulationSigns said:
And to answer questions honestly and backed it up with Scripture, too.

Sound hermeneutics is the tool that allows us to handle the Holy Scriptures more nobly (honestly), righteously, and responsibly. We must never approach scripture as a presuppositionalist, but as one with a "ready" mind, open to receive anything that scripture teaches. While many would deny this is possible, it is not only possible it is essential. An open mind means "just that." A mind that that is not already set, but is open to receive "any" truths from scripture that negate any belief that we may be holding. Or are predisposed to holding.

Acts 17:11-12

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few."

There God gives us the perfect example of how we are to approach Scripture. Note the Bereans didn't just accept man's (Paul's) word, they obviously held the Word of God as the final authority of truth, and so they searched IT to see if what Paul was saying was true. For example, they believed the word, not Hammster or TribulationSigns. So they held the scriptures as the infallible rule and authority and searched it circumspectly to see if what was being told them was actually the truth written in Scripture.

You can’t not have presuppositions. It’s why you always assume that I’m wrong. You may feel that they are informed by your study of scripture, but they are there. Nobody approaches scripture as if they are a blank slate.

Hammster · Aug 15, 2021

Torah Keeper said:
It is not Nero. Or the Pope.

Nero died about 25-30 years before John wrote Revelation. And Nero didn't meet the other qualifications either. Lots of people have a name that can add up to 666. But are they causing all the world to receive a mark in the right hand or forehead to buy and sell? Not yet.

Revelation was written in the late 60’s, prior to the fall of Jerusalem. All of the NT, and the fall of Jerusalem was prominent in quite a few of the epistles, John’s being among them. There’s lots of writings preparing the believers for what was to come.

If you are interested, here is a freebie.

Before Jerusalem Fell

Jason0009 · Aug 15, 2021

You will know the mark of the beast and the ramifications of taking it before you are asked to. You will have to renounce Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and accept the antichrist as your God. If not he will order you to be beheaded as it is written in the bible.

People who don't take the mark will be labelled as terrorists and outlaws and the overwhelming majority of the global population that do take the mark will not have compassion on you when you are executed.

Douggg · Aug 15, 2021

alertandawake said:
But there is something at this stage, that I do not know for certain, and that is if the "buying" aspect is in relation to people physically being able to travel to the shops, or could it include everything (online and physically going to a shop)

The mark of the beast's name will be required during the great tribulation, triggered by the abomination of desolation statue image setup.

It will be a control mechanism to identify them who do not go along with the beast's claim of having achieved God-hood, and his position of supreme power on earth.

Being the beast, he will be the 8th king (of the Julio-Claudian bloodline) of the Roman Empire.

In tangible terms, he will be the dictator of the EU, and the EU likely allied by the U.S and Canada will be the dominate power in the world.

So what it appears to be is dictatorship on a global scale. With the mark of his name, the number of his name, or his name being control mechanism to enforce compliance - at the cost of any person taking any those, the wrath of God.

Issues of online or physically going to a store - it's all going to be the same requirement no matter which one. Control of the internet will be something almost certain the beast and/or the false prophet will do.

Just The Facts · Aug 15, 2021

Well Hello Triple g long time no see. Well I see you are still here. How has life been treating you? I seen you post that no one ever changes their mind......have you?

alertandawake · Aug 15, 2021

Jason0009 said:
If not he will order you to be beheaded as it is written in the bible.

To clarify, many translations into English have the word "beheaded" but in Rev 20.4, the Greek word used is G3990 pelekizo and does have multiple meanings.

So the question is, if the reference in Rev 20.4 is "beheaded" why then was not the greek word G607 apokephalizo used as in the other verses concerned where the word "beheaded" has been used?? The greek word apokephalizo specifically relates to behead, decapitate.

It requires much thought.

Douggg · Aug 15, 2021

Just The Facts said:
Well Hello Triple g long time no see. Well I see you are still here. How has life been treating you? I seen you post that no one ever changes their mind......have you?

I am doing well. I did change from Israel being the fig tree in the parable of the fig tree, to Jerusalem being the fig tree.

And I changed from referring to the arch villain of the end times as the Antichrist - as a blanket term.

The person is the Antichrist only for the time he is the King of Israel, coming in his own name. And not at other times. As the beast, he is no longer the Antichrist.

And I moved from pre-trib view to what I call Anytime rapture view.

And I realized that it is Jesus Himself speaking in Ezekiel 39:21-29 having returned to this earth, making Ezekiel 39, the infallible timeline framework for end times events.

Just The Facts · Aug 16, 2021

Hello

Wow so some really minor changes. But still pre trib still believe antichrist is a man etcetc.

Timtofly · Aug 16, 2021

Lost4words said:
The 'Beast' came and went a long time ago. It was Nero. People want it to be a future event when it wasnt.

Revelation was written much earlier than what most think on here.

Nero was Satan?

Sunshinee777 · Aug 17, 2021

eclipsenow said:
Weirdly - we have to go to Deuteronomy's 'Shema' - the prayer of devotion to God - to understand the mark of the beast.

Deuteronomy 6:4-8 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads."

Then when we come to Revelation 13, we have Military power represented in the first beast and the propaganda machine for Economic power in the second beast.

Now, what's with the 666? First, the Hebrew number symbolism is significant, in that 6 is the number of a man. It's the number of the day we were created on, the days of the week we work, and short of God's perfect 7.

There's also another potential twist - the gematria (taking Hebrew letters as numbers) for both "BEAST" and / or "Nero Caesar" apparently both equal 666 when added up from the Hebrew.

In other words, don't bind your politics and materialism to your hands and forehead. Don't worship your leader or money. Stay true to Christ - no matter what happens. Jesus is worth it. Instead - be one of those in the very next Chapter that have their Father's name written on their foreheads!

This video explains more - 11 minutes for the second half of Revelation - well worth it. Share at church! 2.1 million views so far

Yes, many people have made money and politicians as their idols. And they don’t even know this.

alertandawake · Aug 25, 2021

BobRyan said:
The vaccine card is only given to those who have received the vaccine. (Not saying the vaccine is anything at all related to the mark of the beast - just that this is how a certificate is used )

To further add to this, the person receiving the vaccine would of had to submit or consented into getting it in the first place, so there are two components to this. (not referring to those who could be vaccinated without their consent).

SamanthaAnastasia said:
Regardless of whether it is a physical mark or a spiritual one, you will know them by their fruits.
By only thinking it’s a physical mark, you negate the possibility that it might be a spiritual mark (literally just bowing down to a false idol).

All the evidence suggests it is something physical. In order to "buy" and "sell", that would mean the place of business will have to have protocols in place so that clients or customers who visit their premises will be able to produce evidence that said person has the "mark".

So the question is what is this "mark" that requires people to proof in order to enter certain premises and do certain types of jobs?

Are we seeing businesses demand people reject The Messiah as a condition of entry and do certain types of jobs? I have not come across this so the answer is no.

Are we seeing businesses demand people worship on a Sunday as a condition of entry and do certain types of jobs? I have not come across this so the answer is no.

Are we seeing businesses demand people to be vaccinated or show proof of vaccination or proof of being tested to show you are negative before being allowed to enter certain premises and do certain types of jobs. We are seeing this now. So this is a yes.

It is beyond me why people still cannot accept that the mark of the beast is something physical, when all the evidence strongly support this.

SamanthaAnastasia · Aug 25, 2021

alertandawake said:
To further add to this, the person receiving the vaccine would of had to submit or consented into getting it in the first place, so there are two components to this. (not referring to those who could be vaccinated without their consent).

All the evidence suggests it is something physical. In order to "buy" and "sell", that would mean the place of business will have to have protocols in place so that clients or customers who visit their premises will be able to produce evidence that said person has the "mark".

So the question is what is this "mark" that requires people to proof in order to enter certain premises and do certain types of jobs?

Are we seeing businesses demand people reject The Messiah as a condition of entry and do certain types of jobs? I have not come across this so the answer is no.

Are we seeing businesses demand people worship on a Sunday as a condition of entry and do certain types of jobs? I have not come across this so the answer is no.

Are we seeing businesses demand people to be vaccinated or show proof of vaccination or proof of being tested to show you are negative before being allowed to enter certain premises and do certain types of jobs. We are seeing this now. So this is a yes.

It is beyond me why people still cannot accept that the mark of the beast is something physical, when all the evidence strongly support this.

Demand worship on a Sunday? Are you Seventh Day Adventist?

And yes it can be something spiritual. Look at North Korea. Citizens (and tourists) are required to present flowers and other tokens of respect to the statues of the Great Leader, Dear Leader, and Supreme Leader during certain holidays and when they visit them.
Images of Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il are prominent in places associated with public transportation, hanging at every North Korean train station and airport.
Every North Korean household is required to have a picture of both Kims hanging on a wall. Nothing else may hang on that wall and they are given special cloths to clean the images daily.
Adult North Koreans are also required to wear a lapel pin that features their image on the left side, above their heart.
It’s not hard to see how that could easily be translated to a spiritual mark whenever you buy or sell. Bow to his image whenever you purchase something.

Im just saying that it could be something that simple.
It has to do with bowing down to false gods and the first commandment. Whether that’s a false religion or a dictator who wants to be worshiped as like a god.

by strictly thinking it’s only going to be only this one thing and only this one thing you might miss what it actually is.

Douggg · Aug 25, 2021

Just The Facts said:
Hello

Wow so some really minor changes. But still pre trib still believe antichrist is a man etcetc.

My rapture timing view is not the classic "pre-trib" view. My rapture timing view is the Anytime Rapture View.

Here is the difference...first the pre-trib view. Then the Anytime Rapture View.

alertandawake · Aug 25, 2021

SamanthaAnastasia said:
Demand worship on a Sunday? Are you Seventh Day Adventist?

I was making a point that I have not seen any places demand people worship on a Sunday before they are allowed to enter a premises. I was making that point because there are those who believe Sunday worship = mark of the beast (and how they came to that conclusion is beyond me)

And yes it can be something spiritual. Look at North Korea. Citizens (and tourists) are required to present flowers and other tokens of respect to the statues of the Great Leader, Dear Leader, and Supreme Leader during certain holidays and when they visit them.
Images of Kim Il-sung and Kim Jong-il are prominent in places associated with public transportation, hanging at every North Korean train station and airport.
Every North Korean household is required to have a picture of both Kims hanging on a wall. Nothing else may hang on that wall and they are given special cloths to clean the images daily.
Adult North Koreans are also required to wear a lapel pin that features their image on the left side, above their heart.
It’s not hard to see how that could easily be translated to a spiritual mark whenever you buy or sell. Bow to his image whenever you purchase something.

Im just saying that it could be something that simple.
It has to do with bowing down to false gods and the first commandment. Whether that’s a false religion or a dictator who wants to be worshiped as like a god.

by strictly thinking it’s only going to be only this one thing and only this one thing you might miss what it actually is.

What is happening today on a global basis that is in the process of requiring people to submit to in order to do their jobs or go to certain business premises?

I have been noticing a lot of strong parallels between the mark of the beast and vaccine passports. And slowly I have been noticing more and more restrictions on those who are not vaccinated compared to those who are vaccinated.

So the mark of the beast is required to "buy" or "sell" (look up the greek words for "buy" and "sell" to see other alternative meanings) Now let us compare this to vaccine passports (or proof of vaccination), and this is happening in more than one country, and we already seeing this starting to happen on a widescale, that people who are not vaccinated will be restricted from going into certain places, and depending the job they have if they don't agree to get vaccinated, they can be fired (or some perhaps will quit instead).

A reading in Rev 19.20 indicates deception has a role to play concerning the people who accepted the mark of the beast. Why the deception? There has to be some practical reason why the people accepted the mark in the first place. A reading in Rev 16.2 indicates a side effect of those who got it. The wording "noisome and grievous sore" depending on the translation requires much thought, question is, is the sores concerned is plural or single? (some of these words in the original language could be used either as plural or singular). The question is what is rev 16.2 describing? IS it describing something like this - Toxic epidermal necrolysis ??

SamanthaAnastasia · Aug 25, 2021

alertandawake said:
I was making a point that I have not seen any places demand people worship on a Sunday before they are allowed to enter a premises. I was making that point because there are those who believe Sunday worship = mark of the beast (and how they came to that conclusion is beyond me)

What is happening today on a global basis that is in the process of requiring people to submit to in order to do their jobs or go to certain business premises?

I have been noticing a lot of strong parallels between the mark of the beast and vaccine passports. And slowly I have been noticing more and more restrictions on those who are not vaccinated compared to those who are vaccinated.

So the mark of the beast is required to "buy" or "sell" (look up the greek words for "buy" and "sell" to see other alternative meanings) Now let us compare this to vaccine passports (or proof of vaccination), and this is happening in more than one country, and we already seeing this starting to happen on a widescale, that people who are not vaccinated will be restricted from going into certain places, and depending the job they have if they don't agree to get vaccinated, they can be fired (or some perhaps will quit instead).

A reading in Rev 19.20 indicates deception has a role to play concerning the people who accepted the mark of the beast. Why the deception? There has to be some practical reason why the people accepted the mark in the first place. A reading in Rev 16.2 indicates a side effect of those who got it. The wording "noisome and grievous sore" depending on the translation requires much thought, question is, is the sores concerned is plural or single? (some of these words in the original language could be used either as plural or singular). The question is what is rev 16.2 describing? IS it describing something like this - Toxic epidermal necrolysis ??

Having to show vaccination to enter or exit a country for travel isn’t new. The International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis (ICVP) has been around since 1933 and it’s still in use today.

Having to be vaccinated to work certain jobs isn’t new either.

I haven’t had to show my vaccine record except to travel. Which is since the history of vaccines has been normal.

we’re not supposed to know what a lot of it means yet; it’s a mystery that’s been sealed until the end.

And everyone is putting the cart before the horse; scripture states that the AC has to come in power before the mark is put into place.

And 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 is comforting too.

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