The Unexpected Rapture (Either Pre-Trib, or takes place in the 1st 3 & 1/2 years of the Tribulation)

Davy

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Nov 25, 2017
4,861
1,022
USA
✟267,297.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The seals were opened by Christ during the first century, and then John was told to "Come and see."
John then wrote what he saw in the Book of Revelation.
That does not mean all of those events have now occurred.

.

That's correct. The example of Christ opening the Seals to Apostle John was so John could give Christ's Church the prophecies involving the end.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No problems at all with the post-trib view, for that is what is actually written, AS I have already proven in earlier posts.

Your #1 is false, simply because the "wrath" Apostle Paul spoke of in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 is TIMED with the "sudden destruction" upon the deceived there, which happens on the "day of the Lord" he also showed there. That means... are your ready?... it means... THAT "wrath"... is about GOD's Wrath upon the Wicked on the 'last' day of this world! So of course, God's wrath is NOT appointed to those of us in Christ Jesus! Your Pre-trib teachers are either deceived about which "wrath" Paul was pointing to, or they purposefully are out to deceive the gullible who won't do their own Bible study.



Like I said, the Pre-trib doctors have deceived you about what "wrath" Paul was pointing to in 1 Thessalonians 5:9. Because you quickly 'jump' to that, without grasping the previous 8 verses in that Chapter, means you heed men, and not God's Word.

Jesus said He shortened the tribulation for the sake of His elect. He never said there His coming would be in the middle of that "great tribulation". He specifically said... His coming is AFTER... the tribulation of those days (Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27). So already you are spreading falsehoods against His Holy Writ.



That's what those on a pre-trib rapture theory will be found guilty of when Jesus does return at the end of the tribulation, and finds they have not been watching the SIGNS He gave His Church about the end of this world. The pre-trib doctors are preparing their congregations to bow to the coming pseudo-Christ who comes first in place of... Jesus Christ Who comes later. That's why Jesus answered His disciples of where the first ones taken are taken to, and it's to wheresoever the fowls are gathered to feast on dead carcasses (end of Luke 17 and Matthew 24:28).



No man knows the year, the month, the day, nor the hour of Christ's return. But those in Christ are... to know the 'season' of events leading up to His coming that He gave, as I have already pointed to in a previous post.



Not physical escape, but the 'hour of temptation'. Only Christ's elect who listen to Him in His Word will spiritually... escape the coming "great tribulation". And this escape means NOT BEING TEMPTED TO BOW IN FALSE WORSHIP TO THE COMING FALSE MESSIAH. That's... what the hour of temptation is about, and that is what we are to pray to escape.

And furthermore, how can the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 gathering of the saints by Christ even happen AFTER that tribulation like He said if the escape is meant to be a physical escape during the tribulation? You don't realize it, but the pre-trib rapture doctors have gone directly opposite of Christ's Own Words there with their physical escapist theories.



Obviously, you are not aware that the time of "great tribulation" is for the very end. The Seals of Rev.6 are the same SIGNs Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse. The time great tribulation starts is with Matthew 24:15 when the "abomination of desolation" per the Book of Daniel is setup in Jerusalem. That's to involve the placing of the image of the beast idol in Jerusalem for all the world to bow in false worship to (Revelation 13:11 forward). That... is what kicks off the "great tribulation", because Christ's elect are not going to bow to it nor that pseudo-Christ, and will be persecuted for it, even turned in by deceived loved ones who will bow.

So in Matthew 24:6, Lord Jesus said that as long as we hear of wars and rumors of wars, THEN THE END IS NOT YET. That means the END will be a time when ALL wars have stopped. Thus the 2nd Seal is NOT great tribulation time, not yet.



I see you've been reading the standard Pre-trib Rapture school propaganda from books written by Hal Lindsey and LaHaye. Those are built on sensationalism to serve man's false pre-trib rapture theory, not God's Word.

Many simply skip over the next verse after Revelation 6:12 which links with that particular earthquake...

Rev 6:13
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

KJV

That's a heavy metaphor Christ gave to His elect which keep His Word. No wonder those who make up their own doctrines can't understand it. Just who as a star of heaven FELL to earth originally?

Luke 10:18
18 And He said unto them, "I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven."
KJV


What event in Revelation does that link to? It links to Revelation 12:7-9 for the end. That is about the casting out of Heaven of Satan and his angels to this earthly dimension where we live, for the end, and in person. The world is going to see him as he is, a beautiful cherub with the image of man, for God said He made him the full pattern (Ezekiel 28). Even his fateful destruction God showed will be a fire burning him up upon the earth in the sight of men (Ezekiel 28:18).

So what the first part... of that 6th Seal shows, is the time of the "great tribulation" starting with Satan and his angels being cast out of the heavenly down to this earth, like untimely figs, which is about the literal winter fig that grows in the winter, but falls off early in the spring. Lord Jesus' symbolic time of coming is at the end of summer, the time of the good fig.

But you won't understand that, because you can't even keep to what Lord Jesus said in His written Word, as I have already shown. Thus the real 'earthquake', and not a fake one the false one is going to create, the real one only happens on the LAST DAY of this world when Jesus returns on the 7th Trumpet, and last part of the 6th Seal.



We've been in that Seal for a long time now. Haven't you seen how many in Africa have starved to death, especially those in Somalia?

Moving on from talking to you on this subject (at this time).

Peace be unto you in the Lord.
 
Upvote 0

setst777

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
2,202
599
66
Greenfield
Visit site
✟349,721.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Greetings Sister Bible Highlighter,

Thank you for your informative and good reply.

I wish to question you further about rapture event, but I do understand that we may have to agreeably disagree. Perhaps we can glean insight by this discussion. That would be best. Either way, all is okay.

We are not far off in our Eschatology, brother. I believe there are two “Taking Up” events for the saints.

For your info., I believe there is….

#1. An Unexpected Rapture or Translation of the Saints (This Rapture takes place either Prior to Daniel’s 70th Week or it takes place in the 1st half of Daniel’s 70th week, i.e. in the first 3 and a half years) (Note: This event is unique because it is a changing of the saint’s bodies to be like that of angels whereby they will rise up to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in the air in the clouds). This event is described to us in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18, and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. In the Rapture, we are told that we will be raised a spiritual body (similar to like that of angels). So we can possibly rise on our own without any aid by angels gathering us (which appears to not be the case in the second “taking up” event).​
Could these Passages just be explaining how we are resurrected?
  • I say this because I do not see a time period mentioned for a resurrection in those Scriptures you listed.
  • 2 Thessalonians 2:5-10, which also is talking about the Resurrection, appears to place the resurrection after the Antichrist is revealed at the 2nd appearing of Lord Jesus to destroy him (2 Thessalonians 2:8), which would place the resurrection near the end of the Tribulation, but just before God pours out His wrath.
  • In addition, the Scriptures are in agreement that the saints will be resurrected in glorified bodies like that of Lord Jesus, so I believe that is all those Passages are discussing that you listed.
  • Lastly, Revelation appears to indicate only two resurrection periods: the 1st resurrection, and the 2nd one at the judgment (Revelation 20), which will be in glorified bodies like that of Lord Jesus.
#2. A Secondary taking up event that is not a Rapture but it is a gathering of the remaining Elect (or saints) by angels (This happens in the Middle of Daniel’s 70 Week). This event is alluded to in the Olivet discourse (like Matthew 24, etc.)
In Matthew 24, the resurrection is placed after the Sun and moon is blacked out, and the stars fall from the sky, placing this even just before the wrath of God begins to be poured out, and before God destroys the antichrist and his armies (Revelation 6:12-16; Revelation 14:14-16; Revelation 16; Revelation 19; Zechariah 14).

Jesus will be seen coming prior to the taking of His remaining Elect by angels, but Jesus will not return just yet to the Earth (like with the 2nd Coming mentioned in Revelation 19).
The Scroll that Lord Jesus is unrolling, with the seals being broken, appears to begin with a basic overview, then a more detailed review of those events is given as the scroll continues to be unsealed, and then a further magnified snapshot account of certain events is given as the Scroll progressively unrolls.

#3. A Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Whereby Jesus will return with His saints following Him down from Heaven). Jesus will be returning to the Earth to destroy the nations of this world (Whereby He will eventually set up a new kingdom) (Revelation 19). The Second Coming of Christ starts at the latter half of the 6th bowl judgment towards the End of the Tribulation. I do not believe there will be any call or taking up event by God at this point. So I believe Post Tribulationism is false.
I agree, however the taking up event by God is actually at that point - near the end of the Tribulation (cut short by Lord Jesus appearing) and before the wrath of God is poured out See: Matthew 24:29-31 compare with: (Revelation 6:12-16; Revelation 14:14-16),

Both of the Revelation chapters appear to give information about the same even, but given more detail as to the wrath judgments and the 1st resurrection in Revelation 14:14-16).

Up to that point, near the end of the Tribulation, but just before that 1st resurrection, the Christians are still on the earth and are being subdued: (Revelation 13:5-10; Daniel 7:20-26).
Why do I believe in two taking up events for the saints?

In the Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins we get a call to Marriage (Which is a parallel of the Rapture) (See the beginning of Matthew 25). In the parable it talks about how the faithful wise virgins are in let in through a door for the Marriage. Then in Luke 12:36, we learn about how AFTER the wedding more servants are called to enter through the door. “And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately." (Luke 12:36).

These are interesting Parables that tell us we are to remain sober and vigilant to take part in the saving promises of God, but they do not give a period of time involved, or give any details as to the resurrection.

Consequently no Scripture states that the Tribulation is 7 years; rather, the antichrist makes a covenant of peace for 7 years, but then breaks the treaty in the middle of the 7 years (3 1/2 years), that is the Tribulation period when all hell breaks lose, but the saints continue to live during that time, but are being subdued and many killed, until Christ returns.

See: Daniel 9:27; Daniel 12:7-13; Revelation 12:6-17
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Greetings Sister Bible Highlighter,

Um, it’s brother, my friend; Not sister.

Thank you for your informative and good reply.

You are most welcome.
But let all glory be unto the Lord Jesus Christ.

Could these Passages just be explaining how we are resurrected?
  • I say this because I do not see a time period mentioned for a resurrection in those Scriptures you listed.
  • 2 Thessalonians 2:5-10, which also is talking about the Resurrection, appears to place the resurrection after the Antichrist is revealed at the 2nd appearing of Lord Jesus to destroy him (2 Thessalonians 2:8), which would place the resurrection near the end of the Tribulation, but just before God pours out His wrath.
  • In addition, the Scriptures are in agreement that the saints will be resurrected in glorified bodies like that of Lord Jesus, so I believe that is all those Passages are discussing that you listed.
  • Lastly, Revelation appears to indicate only two resurrection periods: the 1st resurrection, and the 2nd one at the judgment (Revelation 20), which will be in glorified bodies like that of Lord Jesus.

I believe there are two taking ups of the saints (Unexpected Rapture event & the Mid Tribulation Gathering Up By Angels), and two bodily resurrections of the saints (One before the Millennium & One before the Final New Earth).
In Matthew 24, the resurrection is placed after the Sun and moon is blacked out, and the stars fall from the sky, placing this even just before the wrath of God begins to be poured out, and before God destroys the antichrist and his armies (Revelation 6:12-16; Revelation 14:14-16; Revelation 16; Revelation 19; Zechariah 14).


The Scroll that Lord Jesus is unrolling, with the seals being broken, appears to begin with a basic overview, then a more detailed review of those events is given as the scroll continues to be unsealed, and then a further magnified snapshot account of certain events is given as the Scroll progressively unrolls.


I agree, however the taking up event by God is actually at that point - near the end of the Tribulation (cut short by Lord Jesus appearing) and before the wrath of God is poured out See: Matthew 24:29-31 compare with: (Revelation 6:12-16; Revelation 14:14-16),

Both of the Revelation chapters appear to give information about the same even, but given more detail as to the wrath judgments and the 1st resurrection in Revelation 14:14-16).

Up to that point, near the end of the Tribulation, but just before that 1st resurrection, the Christians are still on the earth and are being subdued: (Revelation 13:5-10; Daniel 7:20-26).

Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were Mid Trib. So you are Post Trib? If so, I am not really interested in debating or discussing that viewpoint at this time. For me: I see that viewpoint as highly unlikely and discussing such a view only gets people’s feathers flying. So I hope you understand if I choose to by-pass such a discussion currently.
You said:
Consequently no Scripture states that the Tribulation is 7 years; rather, the antichrist makes a covenant of peace for 7 years, but then breaks the treaty in the middle of the 7 years (3 1/2 years), that is the Tribulation period when all hell breaks lose, but the saints continue to live during that time, but are being subdued and many killed, until Christ returns.

Do you believe that the first three seals happens in the 1st half of Daniel’s 70th week?
If so, then that would be tribulation of some kind. I believe seals 2, and 3 are pretty bad. Peace being taken from the Earth, and worldwide famine sounds like a tribulation to me. Tribulation is defined in the 1913 dictionary as: “That which occasions distress, trouble, or vexation; severe affliction.”

Tribulation | Definition of Tribulation by Webster's Online Dictionary
 
Upvote 0

setst777

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
2,202
599
66
Greenfield
Visit site
✟349,721.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Um, it’s brother, my friend; Not sister.

Please forgive. For some reason, I mistaken you for a sister. My apologies.

I believe there are two taking ups of the saints (Unexpected Rapture event & the Mid Tribulation Gathering Up By Angels), and two bodily resurrections of the saints (One before the Millennium & One before the Final New Earth).

Okay. For me, I understand that any taking up of the saints regards the resurrection, because when we die, our spirits are immediately in Paradise to be with the Lord awaiting the resurrection.

I cannot justify, Scripturally, any difference between "taking up" and "resurrection" as if their were four events in which the saints are being taken up. Any taking up of the saints regards resurrection in glorified bodies.

Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were Mid Trib. So you are Post Trib? If so, I am not really interested in debating or discussing that viewpoint at this time. For me: I see that viewpoint as highly unlikely and discussing such a view only gets people’s feathers flying. So I hope you understand if I choose to by-pass such a discussion currently.

I believe the Scriptures are teaching a pre-wrath rapture. This is the first resurrection (the first fruits), and occurs during the latter part of the 3 1/2 year tribulation, a short period before Lord Jesus pours out His wrath.

Lord Jesus appearance
cuts short the Tribulation, at which time the Christian saints are resurrected, and Lord Jesus, with His holy angels (2 Thessalonians 1:7; Revelation 14:10), punishes the nations who come against Israel in the ways mentioned in Revelation, and prepares for the Millennial Reign

Do you believe that the first three seals happens in the 1st half of Daniel’s 70th week?

The seals are not wrath judgments; rather, these seals occur during the Tribulation. When antichrist breaks his covenant of peace, he then shows his true colors, his goal of subduing the earth under himself as the leader and "god" over the nations. He reveals his hate for all those who oppose him, particularly the Jews and Christians, causing them to be killed all over the earth.

If so, then that would be tribulation of some kind. I believe seals 2, and 3 are pretty bad. Peace being taken from the Earth, and worldwide famine sounds like a tribulation to me. Tribulation is defined in the 1913 dictionary as: “That which occasions distress, trouble, or vexation; severe affliction.”

Yes, the seals are under the Great Tribulation of antichrist in Scripture, and his mass murder of the saints (Jews and Christians), and whom no one will be able to appose. Lord Jesus himself must come down (the moon, sun, and stars are darkened: Revelation 6:12, compare with Matthew 24) and Lord Jesus will appear, the saints will be raised, and Lord Jesus will supernaturally take out the antichrist and the false prophet, throwing both of them bodily into the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented day and night forever.

Blessings
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,924
6,049
North Carolina
✟273,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Unexpected Rapture:
(Which either is Pre-Trib, or takes place sometime in the first 3 and 1/2 years of the Tribulation):

I have recently come to realization that the Rapture is so unexpected that Protestants may have even got it wrong. But they may have also have gotten it right, too. We do not know of the day or hour of our Lord’s return. But the Rapture must take place before the Middle of the Tribulation because that is when our Lord will appear to come in the sky so as to gather His remaining Elect by angels.
However, that private interpretation of prophetic riddles (Numbers 12:8) is contrary to authoritative NT teaching:

1) There will be no appearing of Jesus prior to his coming in judgment.
For Christ appears but twice, once to atone and once to judge, and not in between.
Just as men die once and the face judgment, so Christ appears once to die and once to judge (Hebrews 9:27-28), at which judgment he will "bring salvation."

2) Authoritative NT teaching locates that second coming of Jesus in judgment at the end of time with the resurrection and the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:14-17) at the end of time.

A rapture prior to Jesus' coming to judge the world at the end of time is contrary to authoritative NT teaching.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,339
26,779
Pacific Northwest
✟728,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Rapturism is unbiblical and foreign to the historic Christian faith.

The Scriptures teach that Christ will return, in glory, to judge the living and the dead, and that at His coming the dead shall be raised--but those who are alive will also partake in the resurrection "we shall not all die, but we shall all be changed".

Rapturism, by contrast, teaches that Christians are going to be taken up into heaven to escape the world.

Of the many false doctrines that are popular today, Rapturism ranks high among the most dangerous and false. Not only because Rapturism gets the Parousia all wrong (Christ comes down to fix the world, not we leave the world to escape the world), but also because the source of Rapturism is Dispensationalism--a thoroughly anti-Christian theological system that fundamentally denies the very Gospel of Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,924
6,049
North Carolina
✟273,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Rapturism is unbiblical and foreign to the historic Christian faith.

The Scriptures teach that Christ will return, in glory, to judge the living and the dead, and that at His coming the dead shall be raised--but those who are alive will also partake in the resurrection "we shall not all die, but we shall all be changed".
Actually, the elect who are alive will be caught up together with the resurrected elect in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and descend with him to earth (parousia) for the Final Judgment at the end of time.
Rapturism, by contrast, teaches that Christians are going to be taken up into heaven to escape the world.

Of the many false doctrines that are popular today, Rapturism ranks high among the most dangerous and false. Not only because Rapturism gets the Parousia all wrong (Christ comes down to fix the world, not we leave the world to escape the world), but also because the source of Rapturism is Dispensationalism--a thoroughly anti-Christian theological system that fundamentally denies the very Gospel of Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran
If by "fix the world" you mean the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness, that is the end of time.

If you mean clean up this one and make it a better place, Christ does not come again for that purpose.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I believe I said what I needed to say. Not interested in debating on Eschatology at this time. I will of course keep trying to study the different views and continue to prayerfully look at Scripture (comparing Scripture with Scripture), and live for the Lord looking for His imminent return. For we can die of a heart attack; Or the Lord could come back today or tomorrow. The point is... that we are to watch and be ready spiritually. We need to not justify sin in this life. But if we take a step back, which view leads me to want to live more holy and which view shows that God is loving and good? Is God a rewarder to those who seek Him? These answers must be sought after in truth with God's Word. Did not God take Enoch whereby he did not see death? I believe God is good to those who are faithful to Him. For God works all things together for good to those who love God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hezekiah81
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,339
26,779
Pacific Northwest
✟728,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Actually, the elect who are alive will be caught up together with the resurrected elect in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and descend with him to earth (parousia) for the Final Judgment at the end of time.

Meet Him in the air, as He is coming down. Yes.
Meet Him in the air, and then fly off into heaven. No.

If by "fix the world" you mean the new heavens and new earth, the home of righteousness, that is the end of time.

If you mean clean up this one and make it a better place, Christ does not come again for that purpose.

I mean the new heavens and new earth, which is taking this good creation of God and making it whole again. God is no more going to toss away His creation than He is going to toss away our bodies. Bodily resurrection and the renewal of all things are intertwined.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,924
6,049
North Carolina
✟273,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I believe I said what I needed to say. Not interested in debating on Eschatology at this time. I will of course keep trying to study the different views and continue to prayerfully look at Scripture (comparing Scripture with Scripture), and live for the Lord looking for His imminent return. For we can die of a heart attack; Or the Lord could come back today or tomorrow. The point is... that we are to watch and be ready spiritually. We need to not justify sin in this life. But if we take a step back, which view leads me to want to live more holy and which view shows that God is loving and good? Is God a rewarder to those who seek Him? These answers must be sought after in truth with God's Word. Did not God take Enoch whereby he did not see death? I believe God is good to those who are faithful to Him. For God works all things together for good to those who love God.
With Enoch, also keep in mind how God preserved others from danger, while not taking them out of the sphere of danger, he preserved them in the danger:
Noah in the flood,
Lot in the plain, not in the mountains,
Israel in the plagues,
Elijah in the famine,
youths in the fiery furnace,
Daniel in the lions' den,
woman on the earth (Revelation 12:14-16).

God will protect his people in judgments and tribulations.
 
Upvote 0

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,924
6,049
North Carolina
✟273,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Meet Him in the air, as He is coming down. Yes.
Meet Him in the air, and then fly off into heaven. No.
I mean the new heavens and new earth, which is taking this good creation of God and making it whole again.
Do you understand the heavens will be destroyed by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat, and there will be a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness?
God is no more going to toss away His creation than He is going to toss away our bodies. Bodily resurrection and the renewal of all things are intertwined.
Our bodies will be radically changed, from corruptible, sinful, weak to immortal, glorious and powerful.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,339
26,779
Pacific Northwest
✟728,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Do you understand the heavens will be destroyed by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat, and there will be a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness?

I am aware that there will be a Day of Judgment, after which God is going to make all things new--as the Scriptures teach.

Our bodies will be radically changed, from corruptible, sinful, weak to immortal, glorious and powerful.

Right, that's what resurrection means.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
With Enoch, also keep in mind how God preserved others from danger, while not taking them out of the sphere of danger, he preserved them in the danger:
Noah in the flood,
Lot in the plain, not in the mountains,
Israel in the plagues,
Elijah in the famine,
youths in the fiery furnace,
Daniel in the lions' den,
woman on the earth (Revelation 12:14-16).

God will protect his people in judgments and tribulations.

Right, but are you told to build a boat like Noah?
What applied to them does not always apply to all believers throughout time.

Anyways, moving on like I said.
Have a great day in the Lord.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hezekiah81

Christ died for me so I died for him
Aug 18, 2021
377
176
Texas
✟7,693.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The Unexpected Rapture:
(Which either is Pre-Trib, or takes place sometime in the first 3 and 1/2 years of the Tribulation):

I have recently come to realization that the Rapture is so unexpected that Protestants may have even got it wrong. But they may have also have gotten it right, too. We do not know of the day or hour of our Lord’s return. But the Rapture must take place before the Middle of the Tribulation because that is when our Lord will appear to come in the sky so as to gather His remaining Elect by angels.
Let's see what Jesus Christ has to say about that. (Matthew 13:30) 30 Let both grow together till the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. (Matthew 13:38-40) 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. (Matthew 13:49) 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, ( Jesus is clear there is no rapture before tribulation and all true believers in Christ will have to endure to the end. Please don't fall for man fabricated doctrine, the word is clear the wicked and the just are all here together at his appearing at the end of the world and then a new beginning.)
 
Upvote 0

setst777

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 25, 2018
2,202
599
66
Greenfield
Visit site
✟349,721.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Rapturism is unbiblical and foreign to the historic Christian faith.

The Scriptures teach that Christ will return, in glory, to judge the living and the dead, and that at His coming the dead shall be raised--but those who are alive will also partake in the resurrection "we shall not all die, but we shall all be changed".

Rapturism, by contrast, teaches that Christians are going to be taken up into heaven to escape the world.

Of the many false doctrines that are popular today, Rapturism ranks high among the most dangerous and false. Not only because Rapturism gets the Parousia all wrong (Christ comes down to fix the world, not we leave the world to escape the world), but also because the source of Rapturism is Dispensationalism--a thoroughly anti-Christian theological system that fundamentally denies the very Gospel of Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

There are two resurrections.

Revelation 20:4-6 (NIV)
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

The first resurrection occurs just before Lord Jesus pours out His wrath on the earth.

Mathew 28:29-31 (NIV) 29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Revelation 14:14-20 (NIV)
Harvest (Rapture) of the Saints
14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
Harvest (wrath poured out on earth) specifically those nations coming against Israel.
17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” 19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. 20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.
  • After the first resurrection (Revelation 20:4-6),
  • God's wrath on the nations (Revelation 14:17-20; Revelation 19:16-18),
  • God throws the antichrist and the false prophet into the Lake of Fire, where they will be tormented forever (Revelation 19:19-20),
  • Satan is bound for a thousand years (Revelation 20:1-3)
  • Then thousand year reign of Christ on earth with His holy saints (Revelation 20:4-6),
  • Then Satan is released one last time, and the nations are deceived into coming against Israel once again, but God destroys them all (Revelation 20:7-10).
  • Then all the living and the dead are raised to be judged - the 2nd Resurrection (Revelation 20:11-15)
  • Then God creates an New Heavens and a New Earth (Revelation 21:1).
  • Then the New Jerusalem (God's Holy Saints within the Home God created for them) steps out of Heaven to be on earth where God himself will dwell with them forever (Revelation 21:2-21).
  • On the New Earth, no sun or moon will shine again; rather, Lord Jesus is the brightness of God's glory who will illuminate and sustain all things (Hebrews 2:3; Revelation 21:22-27).
Revelation 22:12-17 (NIV)
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Let's see what Jesus Christ has to say about that. (Matthew 13:30) 30 Let both grow together till the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. (Matthew 13:38-40) 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. (Matthew 13:49) 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, ( Jesus is clear there is no rapture before tribulation and all true believers in Christ will have to endure to the end. Please don't fall for man fabricated doctrine, the word is clear the wicked and the just are all here together at his appearing at the end of the world and then a new beginning.)

See post #109.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Clare73

Blood-bought
Jun 12, 2012
24,924
6,049
North Carolina
✟273,604.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Right, but are you told to build a boat like Noah?
I'm cool. . .he also didn't tell Lot, Elijah, Daniel, youths in the fiery furnace, Israel in the plagues and the woman on the earth to build a boat either. They didn't need a boat, and neither will I.
What applied to them does not always apply to all believers throughout time.
Building a boat does not, but being protected in the sphere of danger certainly does,
just as it did for Noah, who was no exception, who was not taken out of the sphere of danger.
Anyways, moving on like I said.
Have a great day in the Lord.
Just comparing Scripture with Scripture, realizing that authoritive NT teaching always governs its meaning.

But I understand. . .God bless you.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0