The Mark of the Beast

Dave G. said:

Nero was an antichrist as were and still are many other men since. We have an antichrist spirit in the world. Nero was indeed a monster. No special supernatural powers but a monster. If he were The Anti Christ then we are now living in the new heavens and new earth by simple timeline. The, Satan would be in the lake of fire so we wouldn't be bothered with all the evil we still see, the world would have burned up. Everything in short recorded in the book of Revelation would have occured long time past. Well More than 10 years after Neros death John was told to write about these things that must happen in the future.

Partial preterist viewers/believers have far too many holes to explain away. Never mind full preterists.

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Many theologians / historians, also believe in an early date for Revelation

Lost4words said:

Many theologians / historians, also believe in an early date for Revelation

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I would say some more so than many. From within Revelation itself there are references to places all over the bible. But if it's the end of the world book as we know the world and new testament, references would go all the way back to Genesis and indeed they do.

One truth can't be denied: the end of the world hasn't come, it's still here and so is evil.

Dave G. said:

I wouldn't say all,some do. But really if you study this well in a deep study, a religious leader fits the role of the false prophet better than the Antichrist proper. I'm not saying it is or isn't a pope but as far as duties go a pope would make a good false prophet.

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Originally all Protestants believed the Papacy was Antichrist. It's in their creeds. Even Baptists and Methodists.

Dave L said:

Originally all Protestants believed the Papacy was Antichrist. It's in their creeds. Even Baptists and Methodists.

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I think today more don't want to make the prediction of who it is at all. Some still stick to the Rome idea for AntiChrist and mystery Babylon as well ( not historical Babylon, we know that went down but the spirit of it is alive today still).

Dave G. said:

I think today more don't want to make the prediction of who it is at all. Some still stick to the Rome idea for AntiChrist and mystery Babylon as well ( not historical Babylon, we know that went down but the spirit of it is alive today still).

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How about this? It's still the same. The Pope still rules throughout the Church through his false doctrines. Free will is a biggie. Salvation by works is rampant. Dispensationalism is an off-shoot of the Jesuit's futurism designed to free the Papacy from the historic charge of being the Antichrist. Plus decore and rituals....

Antichrist is the false prophet and i believe will be Jewish.

the satanic trinity: King of the north (beast out of the sea), antichrist/false prophet (beast from the land) and satan.

d taylor said:

Antichrist is the false prophet and i believe will be Jewish.

the satanic trinity: King of the north (beast out of the sea), antichrist/false prophet (beast from the land) and satan.

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There are several Antichrists. The Reformers suspected Islam too. John calls today's "Israel" Antichrist in that they reject Jesus. Have you noticed the Antichrist Laws in America forcing Christians out of business for not supporting sinful laws?

The 'Beast' came and went a long time ago. It was Nero. People want it to be a future event when it wasnt.

Revelation was written much earlier than what most think on here.

Dave L said:

There are several Antichrists. The Reformers suspected Islam too. John calls today's "Israel" Antichrist in that they reject Jesus. Have you noticed the Antichrist Laws in America forcing Christians out of business for not supporting sinful laws?

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Anyone who denies Jesus is The Messiah (Son of God) is an antichrist, (aka atheist, peoples of other religions, etc..) an antichrist is also known as a false prophet in 1 John

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

But there is only one false prophet/antichrist (Rev 16:13, 19:20, 20:10) that brings worship to the king of the north/first beast from the sea.

And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Lost4words said:

The 'Beast' came and went a long time ago. It was Nero. People want it to be a future event when it wasnt.

Revelation was written much earlier than what most think on here.

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So you believe the book of Revelation is complete? I say that, since the beast does his main work half way through the tribulation period. Then in that case God has judged the world, believers are with Him now and everyone else has been tossed in the lake of fire, including Satan himself. The 1000 year reign of Christ would be done and we are all living in the new heaven on the new earth. No more suffering, illness,pain, no more evil. That being the case it would seem Christianity was a colossal flop.

Hammster said:

It’s possible to disagree, or even ask questions about a position, without being snarky. Just though I’d point that out.

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Hmmm, snarky is not my intent at all. If it came off that way I certainly apologize for that appearance. Seriously, and Lost4words is far from my enemy, we've liked and agreed with each others posts in the forums many times. I don't mean to offend anyone. But the fact of the matter is what I was pointing out. An awful lot of awful stuff has gone down since Nero and presently in one sense ( depending on your view) no end in sight.

The worship issue points right back to the commandments of God; the first four, which show us how to worship Him.

• I am the Lord your God. God exists and has supreme authority. There is only one.
• You shall have no other gods before Him. False worship, as defined by the commandment is worship of any thing that you call your god, other than your creator.
• Make no graven images; idolatry, which solidifies the above bullet point.
• Do not take the Lord's name in vain goes well beyond using His name flippantly. Misrepresenting Him, thereby giving Him a bad name.
• Remember His holy day of worship, to keep it holy.

These are foundational worship principles that stand for eternity. False worship should then be apparent to anyone.

• God is the creator. Examples: The adding and taking away of scripture. "The creation account can't be literal.", "The flood never happened.", "It's all allegory, not meant to be taken literally.", "Science explains X or Y, which negates scripture." Negating God and His word.
  
• No other gods. What are these other "gods" in your life?
  
• Idolatry shouldn't need a description. Any thing in this world can be a form of idolatry.
• Claiming Christianity, but not living the devout life you are called to—thereby forsaking the Lord's name.
• Not heeding the call to remember to rest, on the day God commanded. Accepting man-made doctrine over God's word.

Any one of these things, a combination, or all of them, are worship issues of the end time.

Let's not forget that apostasy is prophesied for the last days, which summarizes all of the above; the forsaking of God.



The totality of the worship issue surrounding the mark of the beast should be apparent and sobering. What of these will be central to the end time? All of them.

Lost4words said:

Many theologians / historians, also believe in an early date for Revelation

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Matthew 7:21-23
King James Version

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Hammster said:

So it seems that it would be better to ask questions.

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And to answer questions honestly and backed it up with Scripture, too.

I don’t feel the need to spell it all out in one post, but I let folks know right away where my presuppositions are.

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Sound hermeneutics is the tool that allows us to handle the Holy Scriptures more nobly (honestly), righteously, and responsibly. We must never approach scripture as a presuppositionalist, but as one with a "ready" mind, open to receive anything that scripture teaches. While many would deny this is possible, it is not only possible it is essential. An open mind means "just that." A mind that that is not already set, but is open to receive "any" truths from scripture that negate any belief that we may be holding. Or are predisposed to holding.

Acts 17:11-12

• "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
• Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few."

There God gives us the perfect example of how we are to approach Scripture. Note the Bereans didn't just accept man's (Paul's) word, they obviously held the Word of God as the final authority of truth, and so they searched IT to see if what Paul was saying was true. For example, they believed the word, not Hammster or TribulationSigns. So they held the scriptures as the infallible rule and authority and searched it circumspectly to see if what was being told them was actually the truth written in Scripture.

It is not Nero. Or the Pope.

Nero died about 25-30 years before John wrote Revelation. And Nero didn't meet the other qualifications either. Lots of people have a name that can add up to 666. But are they causing all the world to receive a mark in the right hand or forehead to buy and sell? Not yet.

Sabertooth said:

Digital identification & vaccine registration are not consistent with Revelation 13.

See Observations About The Mark Of The Beast...

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from that link...

1. Depending on the intended punctuation of v. 17, the mark of the Beast will take either two or three forms. Only one of them is a number.
   
2. That means that some will choose an alternative that contains no number at all. (That rules out distinct ID codes for each individual. Such would have to be universal to work.)

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That's a good point.

mark of his name
the number of his name
his name

btw, it is the mark of his name - from Revelation 14:11

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.