What would you say to Christians who harbor negative thoughts and feelings about HEALING?

SANTOSO

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Dear one, I am concerned about many Christians who may have harbor negative thoughts and feelings about HEALING.

They harbor hate and anger to those who talk of healing. They said that they have once believing in healing. They never see healing that happen to themselves and those they care. They may even openly revile anyone who speak healing and calling them liars and deceivers. Or they may not speak in such manner but may harbor negative thoughts and feelings about healing. They may shun such conversations about healing. They consider such people only talk of tall tales of long ago. Or they may just keep doubts in their minds and hearts being reserved about healing or even prayer about healing. They may consider those offer prayer of healing just a facade, just being courteous to them and they knew such never really pray or those who pray that they don’t have a prayer of faith that work.

Are not these I have said REALITIES ? How should we face or confront these realities rightly ? So what would you say to those Christians who harbor negative thoughts and feelings about HEALING ? what would you say who share openly their thoughts and feelings about healing ?

I inspire a healthy discussion, where we can advice our brethren rightly on such sensitive matter like this.
Lest not harbor or shun this question anymore. May God give us wisdom and understanding to those who have been hurt.

Aren’t those who are sick seek to be strengthened and healed ? Let us love those who were lost and go astray.

For we heard:
"See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. -Matthew 18:10

What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? -Matthew 18:12

Are not those who were lost and go astray, also those who are injured and sick ?

Let us remember what our Lord said who is our neighbor, when he related to us the parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37

So dear one, would you say to your brethren who are hurt when someone talk about healing when they consider themselves to have bad past experiences ?

What would you answer as a good Samaritan or a good neighbor ?
 

pdudgeon

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The first thing I would do is recognize the past times in their lives when healing didn't work for them.
When that happens in a person's life, it leaves behind a scar on their heart, and pain that they didn't expect.
So before anything else, that pain has to be delt with compassionately.
 
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Albion

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Dear one, I am concerned about many Christians who may have harbor negative thoughts and feelings about HEALING.
.....................................................

Are not these I have said REALITIES ? How should we face or confront these realities rightly ? So what would you say to those Christians who harbor negative thoughts and feelings about HEALING ?

You're asking for advice, and mine would be for you to not exaggerate the matter or dwell on it overly much. There are critics and doubters when it comes to almost every teaching that Christianity holds to. You cannot combat all of them all the time.

But on the other hand, most people who are skeptical, for any reason, are not actually haters or convinced that no healing can ever take place under any circumstances.

Their seeming negativism or skepticism is mainly directed at the claim that any and every person who thinks he's been given a gift of healing is right about that.

It's not uncommon, for example, to hear someone say that he is gifted and he knows it because he prayed for someone to get better...and they did! Well, that's something different; it's the power of prayer. This doesn't automatically mean that the person praying has been given some power to do it on his own.

Rather than become distressed at the critics, I'd suggest that you acknowledge that there is a gift of healing but don't claim that everyone who thinks he's been so gifted must for certain be correct about that.

And then don't argue about it further.

Just accept that some claims of healing are genuine but that there are mistaken or phony ones, too. And if anyone should challenge that by saying no one can ever be gifted under any circumstances, just point them to the Bible verse that applies and let it go at that.
 
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RaymondG

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Dear one, I am concerned about many Christians who may have harbor negative thoughts and feelings about HEALING.

They harbor hate and anger to those who talk of healing. They said that they have once believing in healing. They never see healing that happen to themselves and those they care. They may even openly revile anyone who speak healing and calling them liars and deceivers. Or they may not speak in such manner but may harbor negative thoughts and feelings about healing. They may shun such conversations about healing. They consider such people only talk of tall tales of long ago. Or they may just keep doubts in their minds and hearts being reserved about healing or even prayer about healing. They may consider those offer prayer of healing just a facade, just being courteous to them and they knew such never really pray or those who pray that they don’t have a prayer of faith that work.

Are not these I have said REALITIES ? How should we face or confront these realities rightly ? So what would you say to those Christians who harbor negative thoughts and feelings about HEALING ? what would you say who share openly their thoughts and feelings about healing ?

I inspire a healthy discussion, where we can advice our brethren rightly on such sensitive matter like this.
Lest not harbor or shun this question anymore. May God give us wisdom and understanding to those who have been hurt.

Aren’t those who are sick seek to be strengthened and healed ? Let us love those who were lost and go astray.

For we heard:
"See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. -Matthew 18:10

What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? -Matthew 18:12

Are not those who were lost and go astray, also those who are injured and sick ?

Let us remember what our Lord said who is our neighbor, when he related to us the parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke 10:25-37

So dear one, would you say to your brethren who are hurt when someone talk about healing when they consider themselves to have bad past experiences ?

What would you answer as a good Samaritan or a good neighbor ?

The only thing you should say to them is this: "Next time you are feeling ill, come to me and I will lay my hands on you and, through the power of God, you will recover."

The best way to learn truth is through experience.

The bible say that all who believe, have the power to heal:
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;..........they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

So if one who say that they believe, cannot prove healing.....there are more important things for them to ponder besides the unbelief of others.


If one do not believe you when you say your name is "insert name here," you dont feel bad for them, or continue to try and persuade them that you are telling the truth......you Show proof! via a picture ID, if you will.

Healing is your proof....your ID...........Why not just show it, instead of trying to prove with words?
 
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PloverWing

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So what would you say to those Christians who harbor negative thoughts and feelings about HEALING ?

Are you talking about physical healing? In my country (US), most often the skepticism occurs in people who haven't seen instances of healing happening through prayer. Sometimes, negative feelings arise if someone believes that prayer does result in physical healing, but they've had the experience of praying for healing and not being healed.

So I'd address the skepticism by documenting the healings that happen in your church. Record those times when people were healed from serious, visible illnesses or injuries -- blindness, paralysis, regrowth of amputated limbs, and so on -- and keep track of how often these healings occur, much in the same way that scientists keep track of the effectiveness of mundane treatments like drugs or surgery. If the statistics are good, they should be able to persuade the skeptics.
 
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SANTOSO

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The first thing I would do is recognize the past times in their lives when healing didn't work for them.
When that happens in a person's life, it leaves behind a scar on their heart, and pain that they didn't expect.
So before anything else, that pain has to be delt with compassionately.
Dear one,
I agree with you, that we should be compassionate to those have scars and pains on their hearts.
How would you go about recognizing the past times in their lives when healing didn’t work for them ? I believe many who are hurt like to hear what you would say as a Good Samaritan.
 
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SANTOSO

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Then when they are healed, is the time to pray for healing in the person that they were hesitant to pray for.
Don’t we long for them to be healed of the scars and pains on their hearts? Yes, we do.

Dear one, how would you engage them to pray to for what they are hesitant to pray for ? I believe that many who had scars and pain like to hear how you reach to them in compassion.
 
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SANTOSO

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You're asking for advice, and mine would be for you to not exaggerate the matter or dwell on it overly much. There are critics and doubters when it comes to almost every teaching that Christianity holds to. You cannot combat all of them all the time.

But on the other hand, most people who are skeptical, for any reason, are not actually haters or convinced that no healing can ever take place under any circumstances.

Their seeming negativism or skepticism is mainly directed at the claim that any and every person who thinks he's been given a gift of healing is right about that.

It's not uncommon, for example, to hear someone say that he is gifted and he knows it because he prayed for someone to get better...and they did! Well, that's something different; it's the power of prayer. This doesn't automatically mean that the person praying has been given some power to do it on his own.

Rather than become distressed at the critics, I'd suggest that you acknowledge that there is a gift of healing but don't claim that everyone who thinks he's been so gifted must for certain be correct about that.

And then don't argue about it further.

Just accept that some claims of healing are genuine but that there are mistaken or phony ones, too. And if anyone should challenge that by saying no one can ever be gifted under any circumstances, just point them to the Bible verse that applies and let it go at that.
Dear one, I appreciate the advice you offered.
I believe there are not only me seeking this advice, but there are many.

Dear one, as those who also seek the advice, for this is what I have heard:

To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. -1 Corinthians 9:22

To the injured sheep and the sick sheep, I became like them that I might win them. So dear one, let us become all things to the injured and sick sheep, that by all means we might save them.

Dear one, to the injured and sick sheep, they are not exaggerating that they have not been healed. They dwell overly much on healing that didn’t happen to them and those they love because they hope they were healed or their loved ones healed but that didn’t happen. They are hurt and disappointed because they loved much to be healed.

I understand your point that you said,”
There are critics and doubters when it comes to almost every teaching that Christianity holds to. You cannot combat all of them all the time.”

Dear one, I am not asking you to combat critics and doubters but I am asking how you might strengthen your fellow brethren as a good neighbor as the Lord taught us through the parable of Good Samaritan.

Dear one, you may have a point that you said,”But on the other hand, most people who are skeptical, for any reason, are not actually haters or convinced that no healing can ever take place under any circumstances.”

Yes, there are those who don’t hate healing or may have known that there are those who are healed but they are skeptic why they were not healed or those they love were not healed. I like to hear how you might be compassion to them.

Dear one, you said,”Just accept that some claims of healing are genuine but that there are mistaken or phony ones, too. And if anyone should challenge that by saying no one can ever be gifted under any circumstances, just point them to the Bible verse that applies and let it go at that.”

Dear one, I am not saying that you are wrong. Dear one, can we just put aside to those who are injured and sick sheep just by saying that ? Though we may be right ! Don’t we sound cold to those who are injured and sick? Don’t the Lord told us the little ones who were lost and go astray that their angels see the face of the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ? Didn’t we hear what apostle
Paul said to us:

So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, -Philippians 2:1
complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. -Philippians 2:2
Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. -Philippians 2:3
Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. -Philippians 2:4

Dear one, let us look not only to our own interests, but also to the interests of others who were injured and sick. Let us count them more significant than ourselves. Let us offer them words of encouragement in Christ. Let us comfort them with the love of Christ. Let us supply the Spirit to them in prayers. Let us show sympathy and compassion to them who are the injured and sick sheep of the Lord, that our Lord may rejoice when He found them. Let us rejoice in the joy of the Lord, that we please Him.

To God be all glory and thanksgiving who gave us the strength to love one another.
Amen.
 
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SANTOSO

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The only thing you should say to them is this: "Next time you are feeling ill, come to me and I will lay my hands on you and, through the power of God, you will recover."

The best way to learn truth is through experience.

The bible say that all who believe, have the power to heal:
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;..........they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

So if one who say that they believe, cannot prove healing.....there are more important things for them to ponder besides the unbelief of others.


If one do not believe you when you say your name is "insert name here," you dont feel bad for them, or continue to try and persuade them that you are telling the truth......you Show proof! via a picture ID, if you will.

Healing is your proof....your ID...........Why not just show it, instead of trying to prove with words?
Dear one, when you said like that,”The only thing you should say to them is this: "Next time you are feeling ill, come to me and I will lay my hands on you and, through the power of God, you will recover."

Would they not say that my confidence is more like I am self conceited rather than concern or care for their well being? I am not so sure to those who are injured and sick would consider me laying my hands on them. They would perceive rather that I look down on them by laying on hands on them or their loved ones. In good sense, they would respectfully ask me to leave rather be there with them.

Though you may say what is right, but when you don’t say it with the right attitude. I believe anyone could perceive us as wrong.

I don’t understand what you said,”So if one who say that they believe, cannot prove healing.....there are more important things for them to ponder besides the unbelief of others.” Are you saying that those who are injured and sick should not ponder on their unbelief ? What advice are you trying to offer by saying this ?

Dear one, when you said this,”If one do not believe you when you say your name is "insert name here," you dont feel bad for them, or continue to try and persuade them that you are telling the truth......you Show proof! via a picture ID, if you will.Healing is your proof....your ID...........Why not just show it, instead of trying to prove with words?”

Dear one, are you trying to show something concrete to those who are injured and sick sheep ? I believe many like to see what you are saying. We all hope for your good response as a Good Samaritan.
 
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SANTOSO

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Did you not answer it "May God give us wisdom and understanding to those who have been hurt."
Dear one, yes I do seek wisdom and understanding as much as those who have been hurt. This is how I consider:

To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. -1 Corinthians 9:22

To those who have been hurt, I became like those who had been hurt, that I might win those are hurt. I let myself become all things to all people who are hurt, that by all means I might save some.

So dear one, share with your wisdom and understanding that the Lord shared with you, that you may strengthen us who are the injured and sick sheep that the Lord seeks.

To God be all glory and thanksgiving. Amen.
 
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SANTOSO

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Are you talking about physical healing? In my country (US), most often the skepticism occurs in people who haven't seen instances of healing happening through prayer. Sometimes, negative feelings arise if someone believes that prayer does result in physical healing, but they've had the experience of praying for healing and not being healed.

So I'd address the skepticism by documenting the healings that happen in your church. Record those times when people were healed from serious, visible illnesses or injuries -- blindness, paralysis, regrowth of amputated limbs, and so on -- and keep track of how often these healings occur, much in the same way that scientists keep track of the effectiveness of mundane treatments like drugs or surgery. If the statistics are good, they should be able to persuade the skeptics.
Dear one, thank for your advice.

Dear one, skeptics don’t only happen here or US, but also in many nations.

Dear one, for those who practice living in the faith and believing in healing. Without those documentation they knew that there are those who are healed. The skeptic may say that they don’t believe because they were upset, angry and don’t understand why they weren’t healed or their loved ones weren’t healed. There are also skeptics who may have understand why they weren’t healed but may have done what they were instructed but yet they have not received healing. They were in despair considering they bore the injury and sickness so long. They are concerned and hurt; they may say things that they shouldn’t have said or done.
So they were lost and go astray. Didn’t we hear our Lord said about these little ones:

““Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost. “What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:10-12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Dear one, these little ones who were not only lost and go astray, for this is what we have heard:

The weak you have not strengthened, the sick you have not healed, the injured you have not bound up, the strayed you have not brought back, the lost you have not sought, and with force and harshness you have ruled them. -Ezekiel 34:4

Dear one, let us not be harsh and forceful to those who are weak, sick, the strayed, the lost. Let us be please our Lord Jesus Christ, for we heard :

So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: -1 Peter 5:1
shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; -1 Peter 5:2
not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. -1 Peter 5:3
And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. -1 Peter 5:4

Dear one, are we not witnesses of Christ?We are. Let us shepherd the flock of God. Let shepherd the weak, the sick, the injured, the strayed, the lost whom the Lord calls us not to despise these little ones but love them, that our Lord may rejoice when He finds them. Let us do things that please the Lord. When He appears, we will receive the unfading crown of glory.

To God be all glory and thanksgiving who strengthen us with the love of Christ.
Amen
 
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I have an issue with people that suggest healing before medical attention. It is not a substitute and is a dangerous recommendation that can and does lead to death.

It is also very common for healing and ‘miracles’ to happen in Charismatic congregations lead by conmen in fancy suits fleecing their members for money.
 
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aiki

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Are not these I have said REALITIES ? How should we face or confront these realities rightly ? So what would you say to those Christians who harbor negative thoughts and feelings about HEALING ? what would you say who share openly their thoughts and feelings about healing ?

In my case, miraculous healing has been declared by a number of fellow Christians in my social sphere as an event common to believers, by some even held up as a proof of the genuineness of one's salvation and the depth of one's walk with God. "Every Christian should be healing," they say, "It's in the Atonement, you know." And so, if one is not healing others, one is not walking by faith with God and does not really experience God properly. As a result, healing has become a rather divisive thing among believers as some take up this thinking and begin to look darkly upon those who don't show the same enthusiasm for healing that they do. The natural reaction of those not as sold on the healing in the Atonement stuff is resentment at being regarded as spiritually lacking - especially on such a faulty, unbiblical basis.

God does heal people physically. Absolutely. Should we expect Him to do so every time we ask Him to? Do we have some sort of spiritual right to miraculous healing? Not from what I can see in God's word. I wrote some notes on this issue in preparation for an Elders meeting on it. Here's what I wrote:

Notes on Healing in the New Testament


I. In the New Testament, miraculous healing is commonly connected to the preaching of the Gospel and as evidence of divine authority.


Matthew 10 (Mk. 3:13-15; Lu. 9:1-6; [10:1-20 - seventy disciples are sent out]) – Christ commissions and empowers the twelve disciples to preach the coming kingdom of God, healing the sick as they do so, and exorcising those possessed of evil spirits. The emphasis of the chapter, however, is on preaching (vs. 7, 14, 19, 27, 32) and on Christ preparing his disciples for the persecution and conflict that will arise as a consequence of preaching the truth, not on healing and exorcisms.

Luke 5:21-26 – Healing is done by Christ to demonstrate his divine authority.

Matthew 4:23 (NKJV)

23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all kinds of sickness and all kinds of disease among the people.

Luke 9:11 (NKJV)
11 But when the multitudes knew it, they followed Him; and He received them and spoke to them about the kingdom of God, and healed those who had need of healing.

Acts 3 – Peter heals a lame man and then uses the ensuing excitement to preach the Gospel.

Taken before the rulers and high priests of Jerusalem and questioned about their healing of the lame man, Peter (accompanied by John) shares the Gospel with them.

Acts 4:8-12 (NKJV)
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers of the people and elders of Israel:
9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well,
10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.
11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 4:29-31 (NKJV)
29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word,
30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus."
31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

Acts 14:8-18 – Paul heals a lame man and the people of Lystra proclaim Paul a god (Hermes). Paul responds to their pagan reaction to the healing of the lame man by preaching to them the one, true God:

Acts 14:11-17 (NKJV)
11 Now when the people saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language, "The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!"
12 And Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker.
13 Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice with the multitudes.
14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out
15 and saying, "Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them,
16 who in bygone generations allowed all nations to walk in their own ways.
17 Nevertheless He did not leave Himself without witness, in that He did good, gave us rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness."

II. The gift of healing.

Not all believers will be gifted to heal.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (NKJV)
4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

Healing is among the lesser of the gifts of the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:28 (NKJV)
28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues.

III. Healing not guaranteed in the Atonement.

Isaiah 53:4-6 (NKJV)
4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.


1 Peter 2:24-25 (NKJV)
24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness--by whose stripes you were healed.
25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.


These are two of the three primary passages upon which the doctrine of healing in the Atonement rests. In both the emphasis is not upon healing of physical disease but upon atonement for sin and our consequent reconciliation to God. Sin fractures our fellowship with God, it divides or separates us from Him (Isa. 59:1, 2) and we become like sheep wandering dangerously from the Shepherd. The wounding and death of Christ on the cross, the laying of our iniquity upon him, heals the fracture that our sin has created between us and our holy Maker, not the diseases that have resulted from our sin. This is emphasized by Isaiah at the end of chapter 53:

Isaiah 53:11-12 (NKJV)
11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.


It is not our physical diseases primarily in view here but our transgressions, iniquities and sin. Isaiah is not teaching that there is guaranteed healing of our physical sicknesses in the Atonement of Christ on the cross but a certain and effectual healing of the rift between ourselves and God that our sin has caused. The apostle Peter makes this clear, too:

25 For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Since sin is the root cause of sickness and death, it stands to reason that one of the benefits of Christ's atonement for sin may be the healing of physical illness. But again, this benefit is not a guaranteed one. Our sin is atoned for perfectly and permanently – this is a guaranteed consequence (really, the entire point) of Christ's work on the cross - but the effect of that atonement is never guaranteed to extend to the eradication of all our physical ailments. This is contested, though, by way of a passage in Matthew 8 that quotes Isaiah 53:4.

Matthew 8:16-17 (NKJV)
16 When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick,
17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: "He Himself took our infirmities And bore our sicknesses."


The following quotation is pertinent here:

“Since Matthew is quoting Isaiah 53, which, as we have just seen, deals with the atonement quite explicitly, and he applies the text to physical healing and deliverance, many feel that this is irrefutable proof that healing is guaranteed in the atonement. However, such thinking overlooks one extremely significant point. Matthew tells us that this passage of Isaiah is fulfilled right there in the healing ministry of Jesus, before the atonement ever took place.

When we examine Isaiah 53, we see that while the atonement is the central theme, the entire life and ministry of Jesus is considered, extending even beyond the Second Coming — “For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of parched ground; He has no stately form or majesty that we should look upon Him, nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.” (verse 2) — “Therefore I will allot Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the booty with the strong; because He poured out Himself to death” (verse 12). The point of verse 4 is that even though the people of Israel had seen Jesus going about their land healing people of their diseases, they still considered His execution to be a judgment against Him from God: “Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.”

That “He Himself took our infirmities and carried away our diseases” is referring to action taken by Jesus in His healing ministry, and not to a passive receiving of diseases and infirmities on the cross, is supported by the Greek text; took—Greek lambano = take, take away, remove; carried away—Greek bastazo = take up, carry, bear, carry away, remove (Arndt-Ginrich, A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament). Thus it is clear that while Isaiah 53:4 does refer to physical healing, its fulfillment was in the healing ministry of Jesus, as noted by Matthew, and not on the cross, and therefore it offers no guarantee of healing to us today.” (Elliot Miller, Christian Research Institute, “Healing: Does God Always Heal?”)

IV. Biblical commands to heal.

Are Jesus's instructions and empowering of his disciples in the Gospels (Matt. 10) meant for all believers in all times? Should all believers expect to heal and cast out demons as a matter of course as they “go into all the world and preach the Gospel”?

- The text is very clear that Christ's words were intended only for the twelve and did not
constitute a general commission to all other followers of Christ.

- Paul indicates a varied dispensation of spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:4-11) and not a
universal empowering of all believers to heal and exorcise demons.

- Healing is not mentioned as a fruit of the Spirit (Ga. 5:22, 23), given to all disciples of
Christ. The Spirit, we are taught in Scripture, convicts all believers of sin (Jn. 16:8), is the
Helper and Teacher of all those who are saved (Jn. 14:16, 26), empowers all who are in
Christ to mortify the flesh and conquer sin (Ro. 8:4; 11-13), assures the hearts of all
children of God of their adoption into His family (Ro. 8:16), and produces in each believer
the fruit of love, joy, peace patience and so on, but the power to heal miraculously is never
universally issued as an ability to believers. Inasmuch, though, as every believer is indwelt
by God's Spirit, each one possesses the potential to be a vessel through whom divine,
miraculous healing may come, but being used by God this way is by no means mandated of
every born-again person, as are the characteristics of the indwelling Spirit listed above.

Miraculous healing is never commanded of believers in the New Testament save of those disciples Christ commissioned personally (see the beginning of these notes). Those who are ill are advised, though, to seek out the Elders in their community for prayer and anointing with oil.

James 5:14-16 (NKJV)
14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
15 And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.


There is an implication in what the apostle James writes of a correlation between sickness and sin and that confession of the latter may result in the resolution of the former. This was a connection evidenced at times in Jesus's healing. (Matt. 9:5; Lu. 5:20; Jn. 5:14)

It is also worth noting, I think, that the passage does not urge Elders to seek out the sick. The onus is upon the one who is ill to initiate contact with the Elders. I suspect this has to do with the person's faith in God's power to heal and their willingness to confess and forsake the sin that has made them ill – both of which James seems to indicate are vital to healing. (This isn't to suggest, however, that I think all sickness is directly related to some specific sin in a person's life or that the Bible teaches such a thing.)

V. Not all instances of sickness in the New Testament were miraculously healed.

- Paul's “thorn in the flesh” (likely sight-related) was not healed. (2 Cor. 12:7-9)

- Paul prescribed wine for Timothy's stomach issues, not miraculous healing. (1 Ti. 5:23)

- Epaphroditus fell deathly ill but was not miraculously healed. (Phil. 2:25-30)

- Paul did not miraculously heal sick Trophimus but left him behind in Miletus. (1 Ti.
4:20
)

- Dorcas (aka Tabitha) a faithful disciple of Jesus becomes ill and dies. She is not
miraculously healed by her fellow disciples of Christ nor is she able to heal herself. (Ac. 9:36, 37) Peter, however, arrives and in his special position as an apostle successfully appeals to God to resurrect her from the dead.

In light of the observations above, I am not persuaded that miraculous healing is something Christians ought to promote and pursue as a staple of Christian living. Certainly, it ought not to be urged upon believers as a way of proving the reality and/or depth of their relationship with God. I also think that any claim of healing, given its remarkable nature, ought to be very carefully verified and established. No claim of healing should be made without the ability to show that the claim is true. Too often these days, claims of incredible healing – resurrections even – are made without any means of legitimate verification. In our increasingly skeptical western society, made so in no small part because of the enormous fraud that goes on in this area within Christianity, unproveable claims of healing bring the cause and name of Christ into serious disrepute. Having said this, I don't discount miraculous healing wholesale. There are, I believe, very definitely occasions when God does act miraculously to heal. I have, though, no good reason from Scripture to think that such events ought to be expected to be the norm of Christian experience.
 
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SANTOSO

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I have an issue with people that suggest healing before medical attention. It is not a substitute and is a dangerous recommendation that can and does lead to death.

It is also very common for healing and ‘miracles’ to happen in Charismatic congregations lead by conmen in fancy suits fleecing their members for money.

Dear one, why you are upset, angry and have an issue with people that suggest healing before medical attention. Dear one, in this pandemic situation, there are those who can’t afford not to listen to those who suggest healing before medical attention, for they can’t afford any medical expenses. Neither who suggest healing before medical attention can afford to support the expenses incurred by those tho may need medical attention before healing.

Those who seek healing before medical attention may know what you said that it is a dangerous situation that can lead to death, there are many who can’t afford and not all government sponsor all expenses incurred.

Dear one, don’t hate charismatic congregations and those who lead them, for there are those who labor with the love of Christ because of their work. We esteem them who do such works of faith.

If there are those who fleecing for money, leave it to the wrath of God. For we heard:

Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." -Romans 12:19

Likewise, we heard:
To the contrary, "if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head." -Romans 12:20

Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. -Romans 12:21

Dear one, let us overcome evil with good.

Dear one, consider also what we have heard:
And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men. -Acts 5:35

So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail; -Acts 5:38

but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!" So they took his advice, -Acts 5:39

Dear one, if the charismatic congregation is of man, let us keep away from these men and leave them alone. For this plan or undertaking will fail.

Dear one, if the charismatic congregation is of God ! You might not be able to overthrow them with your words. Dear one, don’t let yourself be found to oppose God.
 
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SANTOSO

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Dear Aiki,
Thank you for sharing your opinion. I do appreciate what you have written and read and reread again.

I am glad to hear that there are miraculous healing happening in your midst and a number of your fellow Christians testified.

I heard you said that some regard miraculous healings as a proof of the genuineness of one’s salvation. I believe this raise a concern, that this is not biblically right.

For the proof of genuineness of one’s salvation, comes from what we have heard:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. -Romans 1:16
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith." -Romans 1:17

For the gospel of Jesus Christ, it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believe, for in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written that the righteous shall live by faith.

For likewise we heard:
On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' -Matthew 7:22
And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.' -Matthew 7:23

Were not those whom the Lord work through to manifest healing on those who were sick, doing mighty works in His name ? Yes, they were.

So those whom the Lord healed through, and those were healed, the Lord explicitly told them that He didn’t know them if they work lawlessness. So those assumed that they have a proof of genuineness of salvation
after God healed them that they can work lawlessness, their hearts are not right in this matter and should repent.

Also when a person got healing from the Lord, that also doesn’t confirm the depth of one's walk with God. As we have heard:
But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. -Hebrews 5:14

So those who were healed are not considered mature because they were healed, but those who are mature are those constantly practice to distinguish good and evil. So those who walk with God in depth are those who are mature.

I understand you are telling me other things. I find what you said for this matter though raise also a concern that we need to address, too.

I will answer you in a few post.
 
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SANTOSO

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"Every Christian should be healing," they say, "It's in the Atonement, you know." And so, if one is not healing others, one is not walking by faith with God and does not really experience God properly. As a result, healing has become a rather divisive thing among believers as some take up this thinking and begin to look darkly upon those who don't show the same enthusiasm for healing that they do. The natural reaction of those not as sold on the healing in the Atonement stuff is resentment at being regarded as spiritually lacking - especially on such a faulty, unbiblical basis.
Dear one,
I do heard what you said that they said :
“Every Christian should be healing”; this remark may seem right but it is not right.

For we heard:
to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, -1 Corinthians 12:9

All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. -1 Corinthians 12:11

Likewise we heard:
“So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Dear one,
it is not that every Christian should be healing but every Christian whom the Holy Spirit gave the gifts of healing, and through whom He empowered, apportioned as He wills.

So dear one, every Christian whom the Holy given, empowered and apportioned must act as the Holy Spirit wills not as himself or herself wills.

Further more, in regard to “they say, "It's in the Atonement, you know." And so, if one is not healing others, one is not walking by faith with God and does not really experience God properly.”

Dear one, though it is in the atonement work of our Lord Jesus Christ, they should not make such remark as “And so, if one is not healing others, one is not walking by faith with God and does not really experience God properly.”

Healing happened as the Holy Spirit wills not as one wills. So those make such apprehension that if one is not healing others, one is not walking by faith with God and does not really experience God properly.”; can be considered to have judged others. As we have heard:

Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. -Romans 14:4

Likewise we heard:
"As for you, my flock, thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, between rams and male goats. -Ezekiel 34:17
Is it not enough for you to feed on the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pasture; and to drink of clear water, that you must muddy the rest of the water with your feet? -Ezekiel 34:18
And must my sheep eat what you have trodden with your feet, and drink what you have muddied with your feet? -Ezekiel 34:19

So dear one, we should not pass judgment on
one whom the Holy Spirit didn’t give, didn’t empowered, didn’t apportion the gifts of healing, for the Holy Spirit may give, empower, apportion one a different gift.
So one who Holy Spirit didn’t work to heal others, that one cannot be judged as not walking by faith with God. Those who judged otherwise will be judged by the Lord God Himself.

Experiencing God properly has nothing to do if one is not healing others, for the Holy Spirit wills whom He healed and worked through.

Dear one, I understand you are concerned about the result that you spoke about,”As a result, healing has become a rather divisive thing among believers as some take up this thinking and begin to look darkly upon those who don't show the same enthusiasm for healing that they do.The natural reaction of those not as sold on the healing in the Atonement stuff is resentment at being regarded as spiritually lacking - especially on such a faulty, unbiblical basis.”

For this is what we have heard:
For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. -1 Corinthians 12:12

For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body'Jews or Greeks, slaves or free'and all were made to drink of one Spirit. -1 Corinthians 12:13

For the body does not consist of one member but of many. -1 Corinthians 12:14

If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body. -1 Corinthians 12:15

The eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," nor again the head to the feet, "I have no need of you." -1 Corinthians 12:21

On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, -1 Corinthians 12:22

and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable we bestow the greater honor, and our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, -1 Corinthians 12:23

which our more presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body, giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, -1 Corinthians 12:24

that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. -1 Corinthians 12:25

If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. -1 Corinthians 12:26

Dear one, is it not the hand through the Holy Spirit worked through to manifest His healing power as He wills ?

So if the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” ; dear one, inasmuch as the hand is a part of the body, the foot also belong to the body.

Is not the eye through whom we perceive the words that the Lord have spoken to us but the eye cannot say to the hand, "I have no need of you," ; we should perceive the need of the hand so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another.

So dear one, we should not allow one member that is not the hand to suffer; if one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

So those take up thinking of judging others who is not healing, have sinned. That is why theybegin to look darkly upon those who don't show the same enthusiasm for healing that they do. For they are not in the light.

Dear one, in regard to what you have mentioned: “The natural reaction of those not as sold on the healing in the Atonement stuff is resentment at being regarded as spiritually lacking - especially.”

Dear one, let us consider what we have heard:
““But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not!”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭2:17‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Dear one, it is true that we seek healing, we seek to be justified by God’s promise of healing. But it is another to pass judgement on others whom the Holy Spirit didn’t give, empower, apportion the gifts of healings, for that matter the Lord God will be the judge and master whom the Lord will uphold, for the Lord is able to make His bondservant to stand. When we ourselves were found sinners, we should repent for holding unrighteous thoughts and be reconciled with our brethren. For Christ certainly is not a minister of sin but a minister of God’s righteousness. So let us humble ourselves before the Lord God and do what is right.
 
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God does heal people physically. Absolutely. Should we expect Him to do so every time we ask Him to? Do we have some sort of spiritual right to miraculous healing? Not from what I can see in God's word. I wrote some notes on this issue in preparation for an Elders meeting on it. Here's what I wrote:
Dear one, I am considering what you have said,”Do we have some sort of spiritual right to miraculous healing? Not from what I can see in God's word.”

Dear one, this is what we have heard our Lord Himself said:
Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:14-18‬ ‭

Dear one, though our Lord appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table and said to them what I quoted you in Mark 16:14-18,
he also said : “And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” So dear one, our Lord Jesus was not only saying to the eleven who sat at the table with Him, but also to us who believe in the Lord’s name, we will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

So dear one, what you said did not conform to God’s words that you said,”Do we have some sort of spiritual right to miraculous healing? Not from what I can see in God's word.”

Dear one, I am not saying this to offend you but to correct you with the love of Christ.

As we have heard:
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, -2 Timothy 3:16
that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. -2 Timothy 3:17

Dear one, I correct you that you may be complete equipped with for every good work.

Dear one, I understand nowadays there are those who don’t turn at the reproof of the Lord spoken through His bond servant and listen to His counsel. I hope you are not among those people. For I sense the Lord want to establish you so that you can turn many aright with His counsel.

I hope that you are like those who we heard from Berea:

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. -Acts 17:11

I hope that you are noble, that you received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

To God be all glory and thanksgiving.
Amen.
 
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aiki

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Dear one,

I'd much prefer it, Santoso, if you'd just refer to me as Aiki. Thanks.

I do heard what you said that they said :
“Every Christian should be healing”; this remark may seem right but it is not right.

For we heard:
to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, -1 Corinthians 12:9

All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. -1 Corinthians 12:11

Likewise we heard:
“So when Peter saw it, he responded to the people: “Men of Israel, why do you marvel at this? Or why look so intently at us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:12‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

Dear one,
it is not that every Christian should be healing but every Christian whom the Holy Spirit gave the gifts of healing, and through whom He empowered, apportioned as He wills.

Yes, I know this, Santoso. There are some - very few, I think - believers to whom God has given the gift of healing (Paul lists the gift of healing among the last, or lesser, gifts he describes in 1 Corinthians 12:28) I acknowledged in my last post that healing does happen even today through believers gifted by God to do so, or through Elders to whom a believer has gone to confess their sin and seek healing. (James 5:13-16)

Further more, in regard to “they say, "It's in the Atonement, you know." And so, if one is not healing others, one is not walking by faith with God and does not really experience God properly.”

Dear one, though it is in the atonement work of our Lord Jesus Christ, they should not make such remark as “And so, if one is not healing others, one is not walking by faith with God and does not really experience God properly.”

Healing is not in the Atonement. To say that it is, is to purposely misread those passages I offered from which such a belief is drawn. What healing is offered to lost sinners in the Atonement of Christ is spiritual in nature, not physical. I already explained all this in my first post. Please refer to to it for further details.

So dear one, we should not pass judgment on
one whom the Holy Spirit didn’t give, didn’t empowered, didn’t apportion the gifts of healing, for the Holy Spirit may give, empower, apportion one a different gift.

Right.

Dear one, I am considering what you have said,”Do we have some sort of spiritual right to miraculous healing? Not from what I can see in God's word.”

Dear one, this is what we have heard our Lord Himself said:
Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.
And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;
they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:14-18‬ ‭

Dear one, though our Lord appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table and said to them what I quoted you in Mark 16:14-18,
he also said : “And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” So dear one, our Lord Jesus was not only saying to the eleven who sat at the table with Him, but also to us who believe in the Lord’s name, we will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.

So dear one, what you said did not conform to God’s words that you said,”Do we have some sort of spiritual right to miraculous healing? Not from what I can see in God's word.”

Dear one, I am not saying this to offend you but to correct you with the love of Christ.

I'm not offended. But I'm not as ill-informed as you seem to think about the matter of healing in Scripture.

Mark 16:14-18 (NASB)
14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen.
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."


So, a basic principle of biblical hermeneutics is that Scripture, generally, explains itself. Whatever interpretation of Scripture one wants to make, it has to align first with the immediate context in which a verse or passage appears and THEN it must also agree with the larger context of the rest of Scripture. I read, then, the passage from Mark 16 (which some hold to be a later accretion to Mark, by the way) and assess it in the light of the record of Acts where Epaphroditus, Trophimus and Tabitha all fall ill and are not healed by fellow believers. Tabitha actually dies of her illness. What's happened to the sign of healing following after those who believed and were saved? Why doesn't Paul recommend to Timothy that he be healed miraculously of his stomach problem by another believer? Instead, Paul recommends to Timothy a "little wine for your stomach." If all believers have a right to healing, why were these believers not healed? It seems pretty plain to me that no such right exists. I don't see, then, that you've shown me to be in error at all but have demonstrated why it is important to conform your interpretation of any passage to the larger, general context of Scripture.

Dear one, I understand nowadays there are those who don’t turn at the reproof of the Lord spoken through His bond servant and listen to His counsel. I hope you are not among those people. For I sense the Lord want to establish you so that you can turn many aright with His counsel.

I hope that you are like those who we heard from Berea:

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. -Acts 17:11

I hope that you are noble, that you received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

Over the years, I have had to correct my understanding of God's word many, many times. But this isn't one of those times. I've been a believer for nearly fifty years and all during that time have been studying Scripture. As a result, typically, the subjects to which I choose to speak within the Christian realm I have a good knowledge of. In other words, I have already been a "Berean" concerning the matter of healing, which is why I'm willing to offer some thoughts on the subject.

But how about you? It seems to me your conclusion from Mark 16 needs some tweaking, some adjustment in light of what else Scripture says. Will you be a good "Berean" and recalibrate your thinking on healing? I hope so.
 
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