What are the reasons behind a person wrongfully rejecting the Trinity? (Trinity Christians Only)

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Albion

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But again, if no Bible is perfect, then who gets to decide which Words we trust or don’t trust?
We either accept the Bible for what it purports to be or we don't have any connection to Christianity at all. We DO accept it for what it claims to be and believe what it teaches. Of course, we could be wrong and the Bible could be nothing but fiction. In theory. But we crossed that bridge by becoming disciples of Christ.

So now when it comes to the Bible translations, the standard, historic, tried and true versions are accepted in the same way as we accept the authority and truth of the Bible in the first place.

With only a few difficulties, the Douay-Rheims Version, the Authorized Version (KJV), and perhaps the RSV and ASV settle the issue and don't really provide as many problems as people often assume.

do you trust John 3:16 and yet reject another verse you think is an error?
I'm not in the habit of rejecting Bible verses. What's more, most of the verses that other people say are fictitious or in error actually do not pose the problems that those people think they do.
 
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We either accept the Bible for what it purports to be or we don't have any connection to Christianity at all. We DO accept it for what it claims to be and believe what it teaches. Of course, we could be wrong and the Bible could be nothing but fiction. In theory. But we crossed that bridge by becoming disciples of Christ.

So now when it comes to the Bible translations, the standard, historic, tried and true versions are accepted in the same way as we accept the authority and truth of the Bible in the first place.

With only a few difficulties, the Douay-Rheims Version, the Authorized Version (KJV), and perhaps the RSV and ASV settle the issue and don't really provide as many problems as people often assume.


I'm not in the habit of rejecting Bible verses. What's more, most of the verses that other people say are fictitious or in error actually do not pose the problems that those people think they do.

Except many today reject 1 John 5:7 being in their Bible and yet they agree with the truth of that verse. So then the power is taken out. The sword has turned into a butter knife. One cannot use 1 John 5:7 to defend the Trinity and the devil wins and claps his hands as we run with our tails tucked under our legs as Arians push their nonsense. But I will stand behind 1 John 5:7 if I am the only one to do it. I will boldly stand behind the authority of God’s Word and declare it by faith so that the enemies of darkness may flee at the power of God’s Word.
 
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Albion

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Jesus and His followers kept the 7th day Sabbath!
They were Hebrews! But after Jesus founded his church (as he said), that stopped.

The earthly sanctuary was a mini copy (example) of the heavenly one. It shows how the plan of salvation was/is accomplished in Christ.
If that is correct to say, it explains why ordinary Hebrew religious practices would have been maintained UNTIL Christ was ready for the establishment of his church and the promotion of it to the whole world. There was a progression that was not complete until certain developments in Christ's life had been accomplished.
 
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Albion

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Except many today reject 1 John 5:7 being in their Bible and yet they agree with the truth of that verse.
That's their problem, then, isn't it? We cannot control every "take" on every verse in the Bible by every person who says he's a Christian.

So then the power is taken out.
I'd put it differently and suggest that they've taken the power out of it.
 
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That's their problem, then, isn't it? We cannot control every "take" on every verse in the Bible by every person who says he's a Christian.

Our faith in God’s Word can affect others. For it is by faith that we preach the gospel whereby God can move in the lives of others.

“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?” (Romans 10:14).

You said:
I'd put it differently and suggest that they've taken the power out of it.

Both sides have taken the power out of it (unfortunately). But there are a few who stand behind what God’s Word says on every word of what He says without wavering.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I am sure some folks did not grow up believing a flat Earth, but they somehow later believed in such a silly thing. I feel Flat Earth is about as silly as Calvinism (No offense of course). It’s just an attack upon God’s good character and it is nowhere to be found in the Bible (Except maybe a surface reading of Romans 9 read out of context). But I highly doubt you believe the way I do about God’s Word being divinely preserved. If I believed there was no perfect Word of God today, I would not be a believer right now. For God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. God moves with the times and He makes available His Word perfectly for even this generation. But many do not like the idea of being under a final Word of authority. It makes them feel uncomfortable. But people fail to understand that it takes faith to believe in the Bible. It’s not faith in modern scholarship. It’s faith in God’s Word.

I'll not debate you on this today, brother. This has been discussed quite enough for now.
 
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sandman

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No; the Bible teaches that the Father, the Son and the Spirit were present at the creation of the world, Genesis 1:1-2, John 1:1-2, John 17:5, Colossians 1:15-16 - so they are eternal.
Jesus taught that God is Father, and the Holy Spirit is called both "the Spirit of the Lord", 1 Samuel 10:10, Psalms 51:11, Ezekiel 37:14, Joel 2:28; and the Spirit of Jesus, Acts of the Apostles 16:7.
Father, Son and Spirit are divine, yet there is only one God.

I am not here to defend non attack the trinity ….

The position I took at the beginning was to provide answers with a neutral position due to the work I have done on this subject.

You can say no to what I wrote….. but all I did was repeat a survey done by unitarians.

This in essence was the gist of the survey/study from post # 15.

I wish I could find the one Unitarian's report, unfortunately it's probably on a disc drive. But I remember part of the study they had done involved several people (100 maybe, I don't remember) that it documented ...out of those that read the Bible or were reading the Bible, none of the participants had any inkling of the trinity or any thought of Jesus being God...without being taught.


So, from what I just stated ….tell me how (just to start with) a person reading the Bible could determine that Elohim in Gen 1:1….which, in itself, the word is a plural form. And even if someone knew it was plural… their conclusion would be zip, zero, nada.
 
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Dkh587

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Nope. That does not work. John 1:3 says, “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” It says without Him not anything was made that was made.

Some of the older English bibles say the “Word” is an it, not a “he” so a Unitarian would not agree that that the Word is a person, or a “he”

For example, this is how the Tyndale Bible translates it:

John 1:3-4
All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.
In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men
 
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Pavel Mosko

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I've been reading The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus. He is said to be Arian or semi-Arian but I can't find heresy in what he says about Christ, so far. His belief seems to be a lot better that modern Christians who seem to be Tritheists. Even the Nicene Creed says, "I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,"

If you want to understand the Arian position/s from there own mouth, there are only 3 surviving historical sources. (well that I have been able to find so far at least)


A surviving hymn of Arius
Fourth Century Christianity » Arius – Thalia



Augustine's debate with the Arian bishop Maximinus (worth reading the full debate, lots of proof texting early on by the Arian).

Maximinus’s Final Discourse (From His Debate With Augustine)



The Creed of Ulfius

Ulfilas - Wikipedia
 
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I am not here to defend non attack the trinity ….

The position I took at the beginning was to provide answers with a neutral position due to the work I have done on this subject.

You can say no to what I wrote….. but all I did was repeat a survey done by unitarians.

You may well have done, but I was answering your statement that the Trinity cannot be learned from the Bible; it has to be specifically taught.
 
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Some of the older English bibles say the “Word” is an it, not a “he” so a Unitarian would not agree that that the Word is a person, or a “he”

How would they explain John 1:14, or 1 John 1:1-3?
 
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Some of the older English bibles say the “Word” is an it, not a “he” so a Unitarian would not agree that that the Word is a person, or a “he”

For example, this is how the Tyndale Bible translates it:

John 1:3-4
All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.
In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

And this is what happens when one does not have a final Word of authority that is a pure Word. People will start believing God is an it. That’s just not right.
Folks need to do a fruits test to see which one is the pure Word.
 
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I am not here to defend non attack the trinity ….

The position I took at the beginning was to provide answers with a neutral position due to the work I have done on this subject.

You can say no to what I wrote….. but all I did was repeat a survey done by unitarians.

This in essence was the gist of the survey/study from post # 15.

I wish I could find the one Unitarian's report, unfortunately it's probably on a disc drive. But I remember part of the study they had done involved several people (100 maybe, I don't remember) that it documented ...out of those that read the Bible or were reading the Bible, none of the participants had any inkling of the trinity or any thought of Jesus being God...without being taught.


So, from what I just stated ….tell me how (just to start with) a person reading the Bible could determine that Elohim in Gen 1:1….which, in itself, the word is a plural form. And even if someone knew it was plural… their conclusion would be zip, zero, nada.

There is no neutral position when it comes to truth vs. non-truth. Something is either true or it is false. Unitarianism is false and it is a non-truth. Any kind of promotion or mention of Unitarianism is a backing of their agenda against the truth of the Trinity as revealed in Holy Scripture. So no. Such info. Is not neutral by any means. It favors the Unitarian agenda.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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What are the motivations or reasons behind a person wrongfully rejecting the Trinity?

I happened on this video today that actually covers the basic topic as far as motivations etc.


 
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And this is what happens when one does not have a final Word of authority that is a pure Word.

The only final, pure, divine Word of God is Jesus.
No man made translation is divine or perfect - and certainly not the KJV which was not the first English Bible and of which there are several versions.
We've been through all this before on different threads - this is not the subject under discussion here.
 
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The only final, pure, divine Word of God is Jesus.
No man made translation is divine or perfect - and certainly not the KJV which was not the first English Bible and of which there are several versions.
We've been through all this before on different threads - this is not the subject under discussion here.

One has to seek out the book of the Lord in order to find it.
The KJB went through several editions (slight updates for grammar, printing errors, etc.) and it was not revised with being a completely different version.

There were seven purification’s of the 1611 KJB. This makes sense because it says in Psalms 12 that the Word was purified seven times. Anyways, if the Living Word is perfect, then that means that the Communicated Word must be perfect, too. Why? Because there is a symbiotic relationship between the two. How so? Just check out this thread for the verses on that.

The Living Word & the Communicated Word.
 
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I happened on this video today that actually covers the basic topic as far as motivations etc.



Thanks. I will have to check that out tomorrow (Lord willing).
 
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Clare73

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Since it took a council and a lot of discussion to declare the doctrine why is it not understandable that it is not an obvious conclusion that it, without being privy to those discussions or the winning argument, that one could not agree in its veracity.
It hardly makes any difference to how one follows Yeshua's Way or G-d's will for our way of livine in the Kingdom NOW.
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Oh, but indeed it does. . .being in the eternal kingdom set up by Jesus Christ at his first coming is about more than following a way of life.

You are not in that kingdom without faith in and trust on the person and atoning sacrifice (blood--Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," justified. Entering his kingdom is not based on your lifestyle, but on what you are trusting for your admission, Christ's finished work, or your own good works.

Good works are the lifestyle of those who have entered, but following "God's way" does not get one in the gate.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Oh, but indeed it does. . .being in the eternal kingdom set up by Jesus Christ at his first coming is about more than following a way of life.

You are not in that kingdom without faith in and trust on the person and atoning sacrifice (blood--Romans 3:25) of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty," justified. Entering his kingdom is not based on your lifestyle, but on what you are trusting for your admission, Christ's finished work, or your own good works.

Good works are the lifestyle of those who have entered, but following "God's way" does not get one in the gate.
Agreed.

2 Corinthians 5: "2 For in this tent we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 So while we are in this tent, we groan under our burdens, because we do not wish to be unclothed but clothed, so that our mortality may be swallowed up by life.…"

Matthew 22:12 "...'how is it that you came in here without a wedding robe?'"
 
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