eclipsenow

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Satan is the great Tempter, ever since he managed to get Adam and Eve to disobey God, Satan and his demonic minions work to deceive and control people and nations.
And what's the great mystery revealed by the Scroll? Jesus is the way the nations get to be friends with God - to join God's kingdom. What's the great plot twist? Non-Jews can join God's kingdom - even Kiwi's and Aussies.

For example; Iran is controlled by the Prince of Persia. Daniel 10:13
Today's Iran is probably controlled by something, but we don't know what. Daniel was mostly about his era.

He will motivate the leaders of Iran to fire nuke missiles to Israel. It will be this attack which will cause the Lord to destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14, Psalms 83, Zephaniah 2:1-5
This is all blah blah blah to me until you actually learn how to read these books in context and not just RIP stuff out - effectively cherrypicking whatever you want - to fit your precious 'timetables'.

What about those PLAINER New Testament scriptures? You honestly still haven't addressed them.

So; in no way can it be thought that Satan is locked into the Abyss now.
YES, in a VERY SPECIFIC way Satan is locked - with regard to something the passage ACTUALLY tells us in fairly normal speak. The abyss is an image you're drawn to taken literally - but the literal stuff in the passage you conveniently overlook.

"to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended."

Your guess is as good as mine, as to what the Mark of the beast will be.
My guess, is that it will be an implanted electronic chip.
It's not literal but about your heart. What you trust in. It's a metaphor.

Daniel 7:23-25 cannot be referring to the Roman Empire.
Nothing in that Prophecy fits the history of any past Empire. The British Commonwealth comes closest, but even they did not devour the whole earth.
You ever wonder what the dimensions of the New Jerusalem were all about? The sizes involved invoked the perfect dimensions (symbolic numbers for perfection and fullness of God's kingdom) but ALSO were roughly the dimensions of the whole known Roman world. It was like the heavenly city was going to come down and sit over the known world.

Basically, Acts traces the Apostles fulfilling Jesus command in 1:8
"8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

When Paul is declaring the gospel to the Romans - that's pretty much the ends of the earth. I'm convinced that this pretty much fulfilled the 1:8 command by the end of Acts! The Lord could have returned any time since then but didn't because he wants more to be saved.

Meanwhile, I live in hope that you will take an honest look at these verses. One day.

The following verses are about what happens when the Lord Returns on the Last Day - and none of it can be separated out without completely ignoring these verses.
* he will return like a thief, that is, predicting it is futile
* he will return with his angels and he himself is like a 'blazing fire'
* life will be PRETTY NORMAL with everyone marrying and giving in marriage
* judgement will come suddenly - and it is not just death but eternal judgement in mind - this event ushers in eternity, the New Heavens and New Earth

Jesus expressly states that he will raise believers up on the “last day” (Jn 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24) and that he will Judge on the Last Day.
“There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day” (John 12:48)

MATTHEW 13
"The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear."

MATTHEW 24:35-44
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.... “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

2 Thessalonians 1
5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

1 Thessalonians 4
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

2 Peter 3:10-13
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells"

Also please note: the return of Christ will occur “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Co. 15:52; cf. 1 Thess 4:16). Notice that there are no gaps of time indicated between the resurrection and the judgement. These texts collectively speak of the resurrection, the judgment, and the return of Christ as distinct aspects of but one event, occurring at precisely the same time (cf. Mt 25:31-46). Premillennialists, who often chide amillennialists for not taking the Bible “literally” and who champion what they call the “literal” interpretation of Scripture, must now insert a thousand-year gap between the Second Coming of Christ (and the resurrection) and the Final Judgment to make room for the supposed future millennial reign of Christ! And this, ironically, when the clear declarations of Scripture do not allow for such gaps.
 
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keras

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We see in the prophecy of Isaiah 3:1-9; that at some future time Judah, that is: the current State of Israel, will lose its good leaders and be left in a very difficult situation, even supplies of food and water will be severely reduced. The prophet Micah also tells of this forthcoming time:

Micah 4:9-11 Why are you now crying in distress? Have you no king, no counsellors left, that you are seized with anguish, like that of a woman in labor?
Daughter of Zion; endure pain and shout like a woman in labor, for soon you must go out from the Holy Land and dwell in the desert, into the godless nations until your God redeems and delivers you from your enemies.


But now, many nations are massed against My Land. They say: Let us take it over, let our eyes gloat over Zion!
But they do not know the Lord’s purpose or understand His plan, for He has gathered them like sheaves to the threshing floor. Arise, My people, for I will give you strength and power to overcome and to divide the nations. You are to dedicate the wealth of the nations to the Lord of all the earth.


Micah 5:1 But be ready for now, the siege is pressed against you, they will strike the ruler of Israel on the cheek with a rod.


In the original Hebrew, there is no break between Micah 4:11 and Micah 5:1. The early church translators made a mistake to separate Micah 5:1 from chapter 4, as it is correctly placed in some translations.

So we see the sequence of events: For now, we and the Jews should be ready for dramatic events, as enemies surround the State of Israel and vow to ‘wipe them off the map’. No doubt their leaders are well protected by security, but there are many ways for terrorists to hit their target and according to Bible prophecy, they will ‘hit him on the face with a rod’.
A ‘rod’ is actually a slang term for a rifle, maybe a high powered snipers rifle, proved accurate to kill at up to 2.47km distance. [1.53 miles]

Then Israel will be in a state of turmoil and incompetent leaders will take control, making the country seem ripe for conquest and an attack will be made by all the peoples mentioned in Psalm 83, backed by nuke missiles from Iran.

But the Lord will act, Isaiah 33:19-12, and instigate His judgement/punishment of fire from the sun, Isaiah 30:25-28 & 66:15-16, Malachi 4:1&3, 2 Thess. 1:7-8, that will virtually depopulate the entire Middle East region. Hab. 3:12-14, Ezekiel 30:1-5, Amos 1 & 2:4-5, Jer. 30:4-7, Zephaniah 3:8, Rev. 6:12-17

Those Messianic Jewish survivors, Isaiah 29:4, will have to camp out for a short while, Hosea 12:9, as all the Holy Land is regenerated and they are joined by their brethren, all the righteous Christians. Micah 7:11-13, Ezekiel 34:11-16 & 37, Rev 7:9


Micah 1:3-4, 5:10-15 Look! The Lord is coming from His dwelling place to trample the nations! When that Day comes, The Lord says: I shall cut off the cities, destroy all military power, remove all idols and wipe out the godless peoples in My furious vengeance and wrath, because they refused to heed the truth. Hebrews 10:27
 
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eclipsenow

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You did it again. You just copied and pasted the OT stuff you rip out of context. I didn't bother to read it! I'm asking you a direct question and you keep dodging. Many tens of millions of Reformed Protestants see the OT prophets as mainly about local historical judgements. This is from godly, careful, peer-reviewed theology - not just some online person's dreams. So. The question again.

How these plain verses of the New Testament do not completely contradict your whole end times table?

The following verses are about what happens when the Lord Returns on the Last Day - and none of it can be separated out without completely ignoring these verses.
* he will return like a thief, that is, predicting it is futile
* he will return with his angels and he himself is like a 'blazing fire'
* life will be PRETTY NORMAL with everyone marrying and giving in marriage
* judgement will come suddenly - and it is not just death but eternal judgement in mind - this event ushers in eternity, the New Heavens and New Earth

Jesus expressly states that he will raise believers up on the “last day” (Jn 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24) and that he will Judge on the Last Day.
“There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day” (John 12:48)

MATTHEW 13
"The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear."

MATTHEW 24:35-44
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.... “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

2 Thessalonians 1
5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

1 Thessalonians 4
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

2 Peter 3:10-13
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells"

Also please note: the return of Christ will occur “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Co. 15:52; cf. 1 Thess 4:16). Notice that there are no gaps of time indicated between the resurrection and the judgement. These texts collectively speak of the resurrection, the judgment, and the return of Christ as distinct aspects of but one event, occurring at precisely the same time (cf. Mt 25:31-46). Premillennialists, who often chide amillennialists for not taking the Bible “literally” and who champion what they call the “literal” interpretation of Scripture, must now insert a thousand-year gap between the Second Coming of Christ (and the resurrection) and the Final Judgment to make room for the supposed future millennial reign of Christ! And this, ironically, when the clear declarations of Scripture do not allow for such gaps.
 
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keras

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You did it again. You just copied and pasted the OT stuff you rip out of context.
You did it again! You just copied and pasted the NT prophesies that you mix together into one event.

My post #22, is OT scripture and my own writing, which proves the context to be an unfulfilled end time prophecy.
That you refuse to read it, shows your intolerance and inability to understand plainly stated Bible prophecy.

I have answered your questions and shown you to be wrong.
Other viewers here can see how you avoid the scriptural truths I present.
 
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eclipsenow

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You did it again! You just copied and pasted the NT prophesies that you mix together into one event.
I have linked to OT professors of theology, to Phd's in Jewish Symbolism that carefully craft beautiful youtube videos - and explained how these just ARE mainly local historical situations that are DONE!

You - on the other hand - can't even tell the difference between a blessing and a curse in Isaiah. You had a dream - or something.

DO NOT compare your posts to mine - and seriously - don't kid yourself that you have even a REMOTELY convincing explanation for why the clearest verses in the NEW Testament which CLEARLY contradict your 'vision'.

Other viewers here can see how you avoid the scriptural truths I present.
DITTO - with the clearest NT verses on the subject.
Ditto pal.
All your bluster just turns out to be so much bluff.
Newsflash for you pal: the CME and AOD simply WILL NOT happen by 2026.

But hey, being a false prophet doesn't really bother you does it? You've been there, done that before. 2012. Remember? Oh yeah - you're a REAL credible internet source! :doh:

For all the other readers of this thread - these are the verses Keras CANNOT answer with convincing counterpoints.

When Amil's read the whole New Testament we see that the Day of the Lord -when Jesus returns - is it. There is no more, no in-between ages, no end-times-table. The Lord suddenly and unpredictably returns and EVERYTHING changes in an instant.

There are two ages in the New Testament - THIS AGE - and the AGE TO COME - and the transition between the two is the Day of the Lord aka Judgement Day aka the Coming of the Son of Man. There's just no separating any of this out! The dead are raised and judged, the heavens and earth melt, the New Heavens and New Earth are installed and believers are saved into their eternal new home. All together - as far as I can tell - in a flash! So read the clearer statements in Scripture first, then try and understand the less clear after that. Let's look at the clear first.

THIS AGE looks like this:-
“homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields — and with them persecutions” (Mk 10:30); “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage” (Lk 20:34); the scholar, philosopher and such wisdom are of this age (1 Cor 1:20); secular and religious rulers dominate (1 Cor 2:6-8); “the god of this age [Satan] has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Cor 4:4); this age is explicitly called “the present evil age” (Gal 1:4); ungodliness and worldly passions are typical of it (Titus 2:12). All of these qualities are temporal, and are certainly destined to pass away with the return of our Lord. “This age” is the age in which we live, and is the age in which we struggle as we long for the coming of Christ and the better things of the age to come.

THE AGE TO COME looks like this:-
it is characterized by eternal life (Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30); is also denoted as a time when there is no marriage or giving in marriage (Lk 20:35); and it is which is characterized by “life that is truly life” (I Tim 6:19). These qualities are all eternal, and are indicative of the state of affairs and quality of life after the return of Christ. In other words, these two ages, the present (“this age”) and the future (the “age to come”) stand in diametrical opposition to one another. One age is temporal; the other is eternal. One age is characterized by unbelief and ends in judgement; the other is the age of the faithful and is home to the redeemed. It is this conception of biblical history that dominates the New Testament.

THE DAY OF THE LORD / LAST DAY looks like this

MATTHEW 13
The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Jesus expressly states that he will raise believers up on the “last day” (Jn 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24)

“There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day” (John 12:48)

The return of Christ will occur “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Co. 15:52; cf. 1 Thess 4:16). Notice that there are no gaps of time indicated between the resurrection and the judgement. These texts collectively speak of the resurrection, the judgment, and the return of Christ as distinct aspects of but one event, occurring at precisely the same time (cf. Mt 25:31-46). Premillennialists, who often chide amillennialists for not taking the Bible “literally” and who champion what they call the “literal” interpretation of Scripture, must now insert a thousand-year gap between the Second Coming of Christ (and the resurrection) and the Final Judgment to make room for the supposed future millennial reign of Christ! And this, ironically, when the clear declarations of Scripture do not allow for such gaps.

IT ALL HAPPENS TOGETHER!
2 Thessalonians 1:7-10
and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

2 Peter 3:10-13
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

(Much of the material here adapted from the following source.)
A Present or Future Millennium? by Kim Riddlebarger
 
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keras

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When Amil's read the whole New Testament we see that the Day of the Lord -when Jesus returns - is it. There is no more, no in-between ages, no end-times-table. The Lord suddenly and unpredictably returns and EVERYTHING changes in an instant.
What weird and fanciful nonsense. Itallhappensinoneday?
This belief basically rejects the entire Prophetic Word. Not right, not sensible and not going to happen like that.

What really disproves the Amil theory, is how they blithely pronounce whole chapters like Revelation 20 to be 'highly symbolic', and of no value or use to us.
Of course the fact that Satan isn't yet bound and is quite able to deceive people, is above the heads of those already deceived by false teachings.
 
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Douggg

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Premillennialists, who often chide amillennialists for not taking the Bible “literally” and who champion what they call the “literal” interpretation of Scripture, must now insert a thousand-year gap between the Second Coming of Christ (and the resurrection) and the Final Judgment to make room for the supposed future millennial reign of Christ! And this, ironically, when the clear declarations of Scripture do not allow for such gaps.
There has to be a time period on this present earth after Jesus returns to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

Right now in this current status of the world, nations rise against nations, wars and rumors of wars. But during the time which Jesus rules the nations with a rod of iron, the nations will not learn war any more, one against another.
 
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Douggg

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It would be hard to find a more gracious and humble commentator than Tom Schreiner. This is especially true when it comes to the controversy of what Revelation 20 teaches on the millennium.
He missed it when he didn't consider the period which after Jesus returns, Jesus rules the nations on this current earth with a rod of iron - that there won't be any war, nation against nation in that period.
 
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Timtofly

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He will in that it will happen.
Beyond that, I'm not sure we are given any specific details that are pertinent to Christian theology.

But then Jesus and the Apostles DO spell out all we need to know about That Day. The following verses are about what happens when the Lord Returns on the Last Day - and none of it can be separated out without completely ignoring these verses.
* he will return like a thief, that is, predicting it is futile
* he will return with his angels and he himself is like a 'blazing fire'
* life will be PRETTY NORMAL with everyone marrying and giving in marriage
* judgement will come suddenly - and it is not just death but eternal judgement in mind - this event ushers in eternity, the New Heavens and New Earth

Jesus expressly states that he will raise believers up on the “last day” (Jn 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24) and that he will Judge on the Last Day.
“There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day” (John 12:48)

MATTHEW 13
"The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear."

MATTHEW 24:35-44
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.... “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

2 Thessalonians 1
5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

1 Thessalonians 4
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

2 Peter 3:10-13
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells"

Also please note: the return of Christ will occur “in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed” (1 Co. 15:52; cf. 1 Thess 4:16). Notice that there are no gaps of time indicated between the resurrection and the judgement. These texts collectively speak of the resurrection, the judgment, and the return of Christ as distinct aspects of but one event, occurring at precisely the same time (cf. Mt 25:31-46). Premillennialists, who often chide amillennialists for not taking the Bible “literally” and who champion what they call the “literal” interpretation of Scripture, must now insert a thousand-year gap between the Second Coming of Christ (and the resurrection) and the Final Judgment to make room for the supposed future millennial reign of Christ! And this, ironically, when the clear declarations of Scripture do not allow for such gaps.
There has already been a gap of 1991 years since the Resurrection and Second Coming. No one saw that one coming, did they? Is the last 1991 years a human invention? No one invents gaps and puts them in Scripture.

Many invent a lot of other nonsense, like "pre-mill invent 1000 years". That is nonsense. Premill just read Revelation 20 without turning it into a private human understanding interpretation, that "makes sense", so we do not have to accept God's Word as written.

Many invent the point, "Revelation is too symbolical, we should not even try to understand it as being literal"

So no one can invent gaps. We can put meaning into the gaps, looking back from a historical perspective. Not getting lost in history and making absurd claims. Just acknowledging time has past, and more time will pass. Not jumping to hyperbole and claim "2000 years ago", is exactly the same as projecting tens of thousands of years into the future. Creation only has a Biblically defined definite time span of 8000 years. God did not leave us in the dark, and expect us to think existence is billions of years. Not all knowledge is obvious. The majority of science refuses to consider any of God's Word.
 
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Timtofly

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MATTHEW 13
"The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear."
Those who wait to be judged after the very last day, are waiting for the wrong judgment.

You and Karez are in the same boat when it comes to that point. Just because he is right on the 1000 years and you invent a false narrative based on human reasoning, does not make either of you right about the after the last day judgment.

The GWT is not even in time, so it cannot be a last day judgment. The heaven and earth literally fled away into non-existence.

There is only one end of the earth, and that is when it dissapears into nothingness. At the Second Coming the earth is laid bare by fire, not turned into nothingness. There is still that pesky 1000 years John mentions after the Second Coming. If you claim John invented that 1000 years, because he listened to pre-mills and agreed with them, instead of actually being a witness to the 1000 years, himself, and writing about them, you have a very interesting imagination.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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There has to be a time period on this present earth after Jesus returns to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

Right now in this current status of the world, nations rise against nations, wars and rumors of wars. But during the time which Jesus rules the nations with a rod of iron, the nations will not learn war any more, one against another.
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

In Revelation 19:15 we can see the reference to Him ruling the nations with a rod of iron right in between the references to Him smiting the nations and treading the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Just in case there's any doubt about what it means for Him to tread the winepress of the wrath of God, we can read this to see what that means:

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

That's clearly a picture of complete destruction. Does Revelation 19:15-18 paint a picture of Jesus ruling over His enemies or destroying them? Keeping in mind that it in Revelation 19:18 it portrays Him destroying all people "both free and bond, both small and great"? Clearly, it portrays Him as destroying them, right? So, who exactly would He be ruling over at that point, keeping in mind that He will destroy all people (all the heathen) "both free and bond, both small and great" at that time?

Also, shouldn't Him "ruling" over the nations/heathen be understood as Him destroying them as well since it's referring to this passage:

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Does breaking a potter's vessel into pieces paint a picture of destruction or of people being ruled over?
 
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Timtofly

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WOW! Is that what passes for Pentecostal doctrine these days?
It's time to change churches.


It makes the MOST sense of the clearer 2 Ages verses. You reading the highly symbolic in revelation OVER these verses is the hermeneutical crime.

There are two ages in the New Testament - THIS AGE - and the AGE TO COME - and the transition between the two is the Day of the Lord aka Judgement Day aka the Coming of the Son of Man. There's just no separating any of this out! The dead are raised and judged, the heavens and earth melt, the New Heavens and New Earth are installed and believers are saved into their eternal new home. All together - as far as I can tell - in a flash! So read the clearer statements in Scripture first, then try and understand the less clear after that. Let's look at the clear first.

THIS AGE looks like this:-
“homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields — and with them persecutions” (Mk 10:30); “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage” (Lk 20:34); the scholar, philosopher and such wisdom are of this age (1 Cor 1:20); secular and religious rulers dominate (1 Cor 2:6-8); “the god of this age [Satan] has blinded the minds of unbelievers” (2 Cor 4:4); this age is explicitly called “the present evil age” (Gal 1:4); ungodliness and worldly passions are typical of it (Titus 2:12). All of these qualities are temporal, and are certainly destined to pass away with the return of our Lord. “This age” is the age in which we live, and is the age in which we struggle as we long for the coming of Christ and the better things of the age to come.

THE AGE TO COME looks like this:-
it is characterized by eternal life (Mk 10:30; Lk 18:30); is also denoted as a time when there is no marriage or giving in marriage (Lk 20:35); and it is which is characterized by “life that is truly life” (I Tim 6:19). These qualities are all eternal, and are indicative of the state of affairs and quality of life after the return of Christ. In other words, these two ages, the present (“this age”) and the future (the “age to come”) stand in diametrical opposition to one another. One age is temporal; the other is eternal. One age is characterized by unbelief and ends in judgement; the other is the age of the faithful and is home to the redeemed. It is this conception of biblical history that dominates the New Testament.
The resurrection is not the Age to come.

Two separate thoughts:

"For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."


"Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife. And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."

That world is not a future age. It is a place of the Resurrection. It is physical Paradise. It is not even for all humanity. It is for those who by faith accepted the Atonement and that city, Paradise, the third heaven.

This is not an age or a when. The Resurrection happened at the Cross. Paradise was opened at the Cross. Those resurrected no longer procreate. They can never die again, they are like the angels. They can no longer exercise free will based on the knowledge of good and evil. They are not bound by earthly tradition based on a sin nature.

Yes, that is currently going on since the Cross, 1991 years ago. Unlike the 1000 year physical reign of Christ on the earth, which is the next age to come. Keraz is correct in that only those after the Second Coming, ie during the GT, will be resurrected back to incorruptible bodies that cannot naturally die, and they live on the earth for the last 1000 years until heaven and earth pass away, and only the GWT is left. They physically reign with Christ on the earth, just like Christ is currently reigning physically with those in Christ in Paradise. Both are physical and both are part of the 8000 years of finite physical Creation.

Yes, Jesus Christ is sitting on a throne currently surrounded by this great cloud of witnesses. All the OT who were worthy by their faith, after waiting in Abraham's bosom until the moment on the Cross, when Jesus said, "It is finished". Jesus accomplished Paradise being opened and all who were in Abraham's bosom came out of their graves bodily. They then ascended bodily into Paradise, which we cannot see. This is the resurrection, Jesus claimed would happen. It is an ongoing phenomenon for the last 1991 years. Jesus has been the Resurrection and the Life since birth.

Each time a soul leaves this body and is transfered into that permanent incorruptible physical body, is what Paul meant when us on earth cannot prevent that, even claiming theology says it is not so, has not prevented that fact. Instead of agreeing with Paul, amil claim that the Millennium is going on now, and even reject those in Paradise have a physical body to be ruled by Christ. There is no age to come in that scenario. That is already placing the age to come, as running concurrently for the last 1991 years. The current age can not go past 2000, and the next age, cannot be shorter than 1000. The like the angels part is going on in Paradise only for those already resurrected. Not marrying only applies to Paradise. Those on earth, will continue to have billions of offspring for the next 1000 years.

Those currently in Paradise are currently like the angels now. They have permanent incorruptible physical bodies. They are not glorified as god beings. They are like the angels. They are not spirits, but like the angels. Paradise is a physical place like the firmament where physical stars are. We cannot see it's physical attributes. But as a cloud of witnesses, they certainly can see all that goes on, on the earth.

Jesus claimed the dead were raised even at the time of Moses, and at the bush. Jesus was describing Moses as the first one raised from the dead. Meaning Moses was changed out of Adam's corruptible flesh to a permanent incorruptible physical body. We already had the example of Enoch being translated, who did not see death, but was changed. After that we had a return of Elijah, and Elijah going back to Paradise. The dead being changed into permanent incorruptible physical bodies was already a fact at the time, Jesus gave the answer. The Sadducees were trying to make Jesus fail at a logical dilemma without an answer, and Jesus gave them an answer that still seems unresolved by theology. The Sadducees had convinced themselves, there was not even a bodily resurrection based on this human logic dilemma. Jesus pointed out that He knew what was already a fact, that many still reject, which, to them, cannot even be a truth. Jesus gave us even more information beyond proof of a resurrection, that Sadducees had not even considered. Still today, many cherry pick and conflate with other facts to make wide sweeping generalizations that are then meaningless.
 
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Timtofly

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Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

In Revelation 19:15 we can see the reference to Him ruling the nations with a rod of iron right in between the references to Him smiting the nations and treading the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Just in case there's any doubt about what it means for Him to tread the winepress of the wrath of God, we can read this to see what that means:

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

That's clearly a picture of complete destruction. Does Revelation 19:15-18 paint a picture of Jesus ruling over His enemies or destroying them? Keeping in mind that it in Revelation 19:18 it portrays Him destroying all people "both free and bond, both small and great"? Clearly, it portrays Him as destroying them, right? So, who exactly would He be ruling over at that point, keeping in mind that He will destroy all people (all the heathen) "both free and bond, both small and great" at that time?

Also, shouldn't Him "ruling" over the nations/heathen be understood as Him destroying them as well since it's referring to this passage:

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Does breaking a potter's vessel into pieces paint a picture of destruction or of people being ruled over?
That Adam's flesh and blood is removed is the point. That some are resurrected into permanent incorruptible physical bodies is the other side of that point. Jesus is going to rule over resurrected souls, given different permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Only at that time will the 70 weeks promised by Gabriel in Daniel 9 be finished and the promises implemented on earth. That conditions remained the same in Paradise for 6000 years is not the point. The point of Paradise was to let Adam's offspring back into Paradise, after Adam himself was banned from Paradise. Paradise is Adam's family enjoying life in the here and now. The Millennium is the nation of Israel enjoying life on earth without input from Satan, nor the hassle of a sin nature and sin itself.
 
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keras

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Micah 4:11 Now many nations are massed against you, they say; let her suffer outrage, we will gloat over Zion. [The Islamic peoples.]

Micah 4:12 They do not know the Lords purpose, for He has gathered them like sheaves to the threshing floor. [Iran and their proxies]

Micah 4:13 Start your threshing, people of Zion, for I shall give you supernatural strength and you will crush many peoples. Their wealth is to be devoted to the Lord.
[ As in Psalm 83, the Islamic nations attack Israel. The Lord will destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14]

Micah 5:1 Now, withdraw behind your walls, you people of a walled city. The siege is pressed against you.
Israel’s ruler is struck on the cheek with a rod.

[Go into your shelters. Your leader will be injured]

Micah 5:2 But you, Bethlehem, from you will come Israel’s King. His origin is from the ancient past. [ Jesus, born in Bethlehem]

Micah 5:3 Therefore, Israel will be abandoned until she who is pregnant gives birth. Then, those of the people who survive will rejoin their brethren.
[Israel and Judah scattered among the nations. After the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, they will rejoin and settle in the Land. Ezekiel 37 The “people who survive” are those who do not take the mark of the beast and are kept safe during the Tribulation]

Micah 5:4 He will rise up and lead them in the strength and majesty of God. His people will enjoy security, for His power will reach the ends of the earth.
THEN THERE WILL BE PEACE.
[During the Millennium]

Reference; Revised English Bible. Some verses abridged.
 
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Douggg

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In Revelation 19:15 we can see the reference to Him ruling the nations with a rod of iron right in between the references to Him smiting the nations and treading the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Just in case there's any doubt about what it means for Him to tread the winepress of the wrath of God, we can read this to see what that means:
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

In Revelation 19:15 we can see the reference to Him ruling the nations with a rod of iron right in between the references to Him smiting the nations and treading the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. Just in case there's any doubt about what it means for Him to tread the winepress of the wrath of God, we can read this to see what that means:

Revelation 14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

That's clearly a picture of complete destruction. Does Revelation 19:15-18 paint a picture of Jesus ruling over His enemies or destroying them? Keeping in mind that it in Revelation 19:18 it portrays Him destroying all people "both free and bond, both small and great"? Clearly, it portrays Him as destroying them, right? So, who exactly would He be ruling over at that point, keeping in mind that He will destroy all people (all the heathen) "both free and bond, both small and great" at that time?

Also, shouldn't Him "ruling" over the nations/heathen be understood as Him destroying them as well since it's referring to this passage:

Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Does breaking a potter's vessel into pieces paint a picture of destruction or of people being ruled over?
Jesus at His Second Coming will destroy those armies of those nations who assemble to make war against Him.

During the 1000 years, He will rule those nations and all nations with a rod of iron. No more war, nation against nation during the millennium.

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
 
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eclipsenow

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What weird and fanciful nonsense. Itallhappensinoneday?
Nice thorough response to the clearest verses in the New Testament on the Return of Christ there pal! You don't know how to dismiss, so you diss!
You don't know to explain away, so you complain away.

This belief basically rejects the entire Prophetic Word.
It certainly doesn't INCLUDE historically fulfilled prophecies that don't actually apply to our future but Israel's past - no. That would be bad reading and bad theology. To which you don't have an answer.

Not right, not sensible and not going to happen like that.
You mean the CME and AOD by 2026? Yeah, I agree.

What really disproves the Amil theory, is how they blithely pronounce whole chapters like Revelation 20 to be 'highly symbolic', and of no value or use to us.
You see - you still haven't got it right.
The WHOLE BOOK of Revelation is apocalyptic literature!

Of course the fact that Satan isn't yet bound and is quite able to deceive people, is above the heads of those already deceived by false teachings.
Is the gospel going forth into all the nations?
Does Iran - yes - even Iran now have a MILLION Christians?
That's Satan being bound - from deceiving the nations!
As the gospel goes forth, God's kingdom goes forth and Satan's kingdom shrinks. That's what "The Millennium" is about - binding Satan's ability to turn whole nations against God. Even in anti-Christian beast states there are still individuals suffering for Christ. And Revelation is an encouragement to them as it was to John's generation - because John SHARED in their TRIBULATION!
 
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keras

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historically fulfilled prophecies that don't actually apply to our future but Israel's past
Anyone reading the Prophesies can easily see how there will be many events to come, before and after Jesus Returns.
I have yet to see how any of the Prophesies I have presented are fulfilled in the past. I do know history reasonably well; there has been no event of cosmic or earth encompassing magnitude recorded, other than Noah's flood.
Jesus said that His forthcoming Day of wrath will be similar to the Flood:

Many prophecies tell of God’s fire judgement; this has not happened as yet, His first judgement was by a flood. This coming Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, is described as a terrible day of fire and earthquakes. It will be a Day when the heavens blaze; 2 Peter 3:7 & 10, burning like a furnace; Malachi 4:1, raining fiery coals; Psalms 11:4-6, fire like a whirlwind, many will be killed; Isaiah 66:15-17, suddenly, in an instant....flames of devouring fire; Isaiah 29:5-6.

But the verse that tells us exactly what God will use on that Day is Isaiah 30:26a The moon will shine as bright as the sun and the sun will shine with 7 times its normal power.

This accurately describes a solar flare, something that does happen on a regular basis, usually harmlessly. In the past there have been larger Coronal Mass Ejections, explosions of the suns surface, but scientists warn of the possibility/probability of a massive CME, that in our modern age of communications, transport and conveniences, would have a devastating effect.

Now, note the second half of Isaiah 30:26b... on that Day, the Lord will bind up the broken limbs of His people and heal their wounds.

This is a wonderful promise to His people, those who love the Lord and follow in His laws, every faithful Christian. Many, many prophecies tell how His people will be conveyed and gathered into the Land of Greater Israel after this Day of judgement. This day and the gathering are quite different from that described at the Return of Jesus - years later.

Isaiah 52:6-12 On that Day, My people will know My Name.....go out leave Babylon, keep yourselves pure, the Lord will guard and guide you.

Ezekiel 28:25-26 When I execute judgement on all of Israel’s scornful neighbors, then My people: all the true believers, gathered from the nations, will live in peace in the Land, I shall show My holiness in them for everyone to see. [Before Jesus Returns]

Ezekiel 20:41-42 I shall accept you....after I have brought you out from the peoples where you have been dispersed, into the Land promised to your forefathers.
 
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eclipsenow

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Anyone reading the Prophesies can easily see how there will be many events to come, before and after Jesus Returns.
Sure - IF they have huge preconceived notions about what THEY want the prophecies to say!
IF they've been influenced by today's narcissistic presuppositions that Revelation can only have meaning if it is about US and OUR generation. (The very same presuppositions that creates cults like the JW's, Mormons, Jonestown and Branch Davidians.)

I have yet to see how any of the Prophesies I have presented are fulfilled in the past.
You don't want to.
You want to read Day of the Lord as future - not as wall-to-wall armies marching across and burning the land. You don't want to acknowledge that the OT prophets were mainly about THAT Israel, THAT Temple, THAT Exile, and THAT return to the land under Persia. No. That won't do for you! It's all just GOT to be about us, because that's so much more intriguing and exciting isn't it?

I do know history reasonably well; there has been no event of cosmic or earth encompassing magnitude recorded, other than Noah's flood.
That's your presuppositions being imposed on the text to justify your presuppositions being imposed on the text. Circular, much? How about actually doing some historical reading to see what theologians have dug up about how the original author intended these images to be read, and how the original audiences would have interpreted them? That's data OUTSIDE your own brain - independent of your own presuppositions and super-narrative you want to impose on the text.

Threatening, hey?


Jesus said that His forthcoming Day of wrath will be similar to the Flood:
Hey - that's my line! It will be UNIVERSAL, UNPREDICTABLE, UNSTOPPABLE, INESCAPABLE. The all-in-one Last Day which divides this world from the eternal. Do not pass Go, do not collect 1000 years.

The CME and AOD by 2026 will not happen, because you have not read one of your end-times verses correctly!
 
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keras

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The CME and AOD by 2026 will not happen, because you have not read one of your end-times verses correctly!
Your vehement assertions are far more definitive and positive that anything that I have suggested.
You ask: What will I do when these things don't happen?
I ask you: What will you do when what the Prophets say; DOES happen?

I contend that it is much better to know what is the most likely to take place, to change the world situation, which as anyone can see; is untenable.
Your way of reading prophetic verses correctly, is to simply say they are not prophesies at all. They have no use or value to us today.
Yet you believe in the Salvation as Written. A massive anomaly here!
 
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eclipsenow

God cares about his creation as well as us.
Dec 17, 2010
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I contend that it is much better to know what is the most likely to take place
I contend that literally tens of thousands of futurists have tried and failed to predict That Day - and I contend that the Lord says That Day will be like a Thief in the Night - and that you have failed to realise everything that is tied up in the great, unpredictable, final Day of the Lord.

I contend that too many futurists are caught up in the tendency to feel a bit superior to the rest of the world that 'don't know' the things they 'know.' That it's like some of the greenie environmental doomers I've known from the past that call the rest of us 'Sheeple' - sheep people - for not KNOWING! That there are profound psychological forces at work in Apocalyptic Outsiders. That there is just something sinister in us that likes to be a bit superior and smug to the rest of the population, a little judgemental about all the ignorant. I know. It used to be part of my thing - when I first became an environmentalist I was a bit of a doomer and felt the attraction to the drama of knowing what the next 10 years would involve - even though I mostly hated it. (I felt a bit like Sarah and John Connor in the movie Terminator 2 - full of resolve and dread conviction about the next decade/s.) I have since repented of that attitude. As I say on my blog:

3. The attraction of certainty
What attracts people to such views? It seems counter-intuitive, but there can be profound psychological comfort in believing you know what's coming - even if it's all negative. The ABC's religion show Compass explored both the religious and secular environmental Doomers - and the psychologist was very interesting.

Susan Tanner

Clinical Psychologist

Now many things are not predictable. The world is a very uncertain place. People change their jobs, organisations fold, collapse, you know, There is no guarantee in anything any more...Global threats like war, climate change certainly create anxiety too because the future is no longer guaranteed...

....that sort of unpredictability and uncertainty creates a lot of anxiety, and anxiety is often a precursor to depression.

Unresolved anxiety sets people up for depression, because you can then feel despondent that well there actually isn't anything I can do. Because climate change is out of my hands, terrorism is out of my hands...

So that can lead to what's called catastrophic thinking, that imagining the worst scenario of what might happen and then believing that that's what will happen.

Narrator

Surprisingly, being certain about the end can actually bring relief to those suffering anxiety...

Susan Tanner

Apocalyptic thinking can be very useful to people who need to feel a sense of control, and that they therefore feel calm because they know what's going to happen. Living with uncertainty, living with a question mark is the hardest thing to do for all human beings. We like to know what's going to happen. That's why we visit clairvoyants and you know we have our tarots read and all sorts of things....
Doomers
 
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