Why did the Lord come to the earth?

pescador · Aug 11, 2021

Ligurian said:
Jesus taught the Law of the Kingdom in Matthew 5-Matthew 7... the Kingdom Law judges the heart before the action can harm someone. The heart and soul and mind is Spirit-dwelt if we keep the Commandments of Jesus.

Jesus' blood with hyssop, John 19:28-30, fulfilled the Passover text, Exodus 12:21-27, and makes Him the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world, Genesis 3:15. And the Passover text makes Jesus the advocate/defender of His sheep in Heaven, Revelation 12:9-10. The death of Jesus' human body is what makes Resurrection even possible: Jesus' Resurrection defeated Death, Genesis 3:15.

Let's see... You quoted (out of context) Matthew, John, Exodus, Genesis, and Revelation. You missed the other 61 "books".

Clare73 · Aug 11, 2021

Ligurian said:
"Grammar refers to the way words are used, classified, and structured together to form coherent written or spoken communication."
Myth of a Gentile Galilee, by Mark Chancey
assets.cambridge.org/97805218/14874/sample/9780521814874ws.pdf
Your bias is still showing, Clare73.

Yes, Isaiah 9:1-2 works for me.

Because your sentence says the NT... not the translators thereof.

Yes, it is in agreement with Isaiah 9:1-2.

Did your grasp of grammar fail you?

I don't think so. . .Isaiah 9:1-2 seems pretty clear.

Or are you an unbeliever regarding the New Testament?

No, I find Isaiah 9:1-2 in agreement with the NT.
But it seems you are an unbeliever regarding the NT.

Whose "authoritative NT teaching" are you talking about?

Matthew 4:14 which is in agreement with Isaiah 9:1-2.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 11, 2021

No longer do we have the pot calling the kettle black. Now we have the whitewash calling the smokescreen beige.

pescador · Aug 11, 2021

~Cassia~ said:
No longer do we have the pot calling the kettle black. Now we have the whitewash calling the smokescreen beige.

Very poetic .. but what does it mean?

Citizen of the Kingdom · Aug 11, 2021

pescador said:
Very poetic .. but what does it mean?

Politics

Ligurian · Aug 11, 2021

.Jeremiah. said:
Hmmm, did I respond to the wrong person?

If so, I’m terribly sorry.

I was asking Michael the same question over and over, and he would just quote a couple of verses and ignore me.

I guess that explains why he completely didn’t respond to me last time.

Edit: I just went back and moved that post to Michael.
It was definitely NOT meant toward you.

whew... that's a relief, isn't it.
And I'm sorry for getting snippy about getting blamed... especially since you didn't and neither did I.
Keeping up with the posts on a busy thread can be a tad trying. My threads usually drop to the bottom of the page like a cold front. What I care about isn't generally... general.

Ligurian · Aug 11, 2021

~Cassia~ said:
No longer do we have the pot calling the kettle black. Now we have the whitewash calling the smokescreen beige.

John 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!

dolos = from an obsolete primary verb, dello (probably meaning to decoy; compare 1185); a trick (bait), i.e. (figuratively) wile:--craft, deceit, guile, subtilty.

Ligurian · Aug 11, 2021

Cornelius77 said:
Regarding why Jesus must come to earth, my church friend gave me a very logical answer. Another friend made a video that kinda sums up his explanation. How sure if this makes sense to you...?
[...]
He kinda relates why old testament law must exist and how Jesus transformed (a.k.a fulfill) the OT law into NT spiritual law through his death and resurrection.

I'm waiting see if the one to which I posted does understand the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Ligurian said:
Jesus taught the Law of the Kingdom in Matthew 5-Matthew 7... the Kingdom Law judges the heart before the action can harm someone. The heart and soul and mind is Spirit-dwelt if we keep the Commandments of Jesus.

Jesus' blood with hyssop, John 19:28-30, fulfilled the Passover text, Exodus 12:21-27, and makes Him the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world, Genesis 3:15. And the Passover text makes Jesus the advocate/defender of His sheep in Heaven, Revelation 12:9-10. The death of Jesus' human body is what makes Resurrection even possible: Jesus' Resurrection defeated Death, Genesis 3:15.

This one doesn't.

pescador said:
Let's see... You quoted (out of context) Matthew, John, Exodus, Genesis, and Revelation. You missed the other 61 "books".

.Jeremiah. · Aug 11, 2021

Ligurian said:
whew... that's a relief, isn't it.
And I'm sorry for getting snippy about getting blamed... especially since you didn't and neither did I.
Keeping up with the posts on a busy thread can be a tad trying. My threads usually drop to the bottom of the page like a cold front. What I care about isn't generally... general.

Yes, it’s a relief Ligurian.

You had every right to get snippy.

I’m still hoping I will hear from Michael.

Ligurian · Aug 11, 2021

Clare73 said:
Yes, Isaiah 9:1-2 works for me.

Yes, it is in agreement with Isaiah 9:1-2.

I don't think so. . .Isaiah 9:1-2 seems pretty clear.

No, I find Isaiah 9:1-2 in agreement with the NT.
But it seems you are an unbeliever regarding the NT.

Matthew 4:14 which is in agreement with Isaiah 9:1-2.

That won't help you. Just like it happens in the New Testament, it was left up to the translator's preference.

Isaiah 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness [shall] not [be] such as [was] in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.KJV

gowy = apparently from the same root as 'gevah' (body) (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

This same word is used for the nation of Israel, here:

Genesis 12:1-2 And the Lord said to Abram, Go forth out of thy land and out of thy kindred, and out of the house of thy father, and come into the land which I will shew thee. 2 And I will make thee a great nation, and I will bless thee and magnify thy name, and thou shalt be blessed.KJV

____________________
And one chapter before, there's this:
Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the Testimony, seal the Law among My Disciples. 18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given Me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 20 To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.KJV
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.
This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Clare73 · Aug 11, 2021

Ligurian said:
That won't help you. Just like it happens in the New Testament,
it was left up to the translator's preference.

Gee. . .and the translators of both the Hebrew and the Greek chose "Gentiles" for the translation.
Wonder why that was. . .surely couldn't be because it was correct, could it?

I dunno'. . .

Isaiah 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness [shall] not [be] such as [was] in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.KJV

gowy = apparently from the same root as 'gevah' (body) (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

This same word is used for the nation of Israel, here:

Genesis 12:1-2 And the Lord said to Abram, Go forth out of thy land and out of thy kindred, and out of the house of thy father, and come into the land which I will shew thee. 2 And I will make thee a great nation, and I will bless thee and magnify thy name, and thou shalt be blessed.KJV

____________________
And one chapter before, there's this:
Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the Testimony, seal the Law among My Disciples. 18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given Me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 20 To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.KJV
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.
This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Cornelius77 · Aug 11, 2021

Ligurian said:
Jesus taught the Law of the Kingdom in Matthew 5-Matthew 7... the Kingdom Law judges the heart before the action can harm someone. The heart and soul and mind is Spirit-dwelt if we keep the Commandments of Jesus.

Jesus' blood with hyssop, John 19:28-30, fulfilled the Passover text, Exodus 12:21-27, and makes Him the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world, Genesis 3:15. And the Passover text makes Jesus the advocate/defender of His sheep in Heaven, Revelation 12:9-10. The death of Jesus' human body is what makes Resurrection even possible: Jesus' Resurrection defeated Death, Genesis 3:15.

I agreed the way Jesus died fulfilled the Passover text, but there is more to it. Let me try to summarize the points from the video:

We know God is the Lawgiver (both OT & NT) and He can just do away with the law of needing blood to forgive sin before creation as He wishes, or He can just forgive everyone without needing Jesus to die for us since He is omnipotent. But God is a faithful and wise God, there must be good reasons for Him to take this course.

You see, God is a spirit and we worship Him in spirit and truth [John 4:24] and the law is also spiritual [Rom 7:14]. We know the NT Law is better than OT Law and it should make more sense for God to beginning the world using NT law.
But Jesus said we cannot understand heavenly things unless earthly things are shown to us [John 3:12]. During His missionary, He used many earthly parables to explain heavenly/spiritual things.
This way, all spiritual law must be inscribed into natural law so that a natural man can understand spiritual things. However, the law is spiritual and it cannot remain a natural law forever, therefore the law must be fulfilled (as in revert to spiritual law).
When God gave man OT law, He formed the covenant with man, and God became the Husband [Jeremiah 31:32] and Israel is the wife. But to break the covenant, the Husband must die [Romans 7:2-3]. Therefore, God came into flesh to die. But that is not the end. He was resurrected again by the Spirit [Romans 8:11] to become a spiritual Husband to be united with us again, the spiritual Church, heavenly Jerusalem. [Ephasians 5:31-32]. This way, the new covenant that is spiritual was established, a.k.a NT law and we are all under the grace of this new covenant.
God loves us by first showing the spiritual law through earthly law, and He again loves us by ending the earthly law [Romans 10:4] for us so that we can be truly matured spiritually.

There are many spiritual teachings in OT law. Eg: burn offering with authorized fire, in which fire symbolized the words of God (Jeremiah 23:29), means worship according to His will/words.

Ligurian · Aug 12, 2021

Ligurian said:
That won't help you. Just like it happens in the New Testament, it was left up to the translator's preference.

Isaiah 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness [shall] not [be] such as [was] in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.KJV

gowy = apparently from the same root as 'gevah' (body) (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

This same word is used for the nation of Israel, here:

Genesis 12:1-2 And the Lord said to Abram, Go forth out of thy land and out of thy kindred, and out of the house of thy father, and come into the land which I will shew thee. 2 And I will make thee a great nation, and I will bless thee and magnify thy name, and thou shalt be blessed.KJV

____________________
And one chapter before, there's this:
Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the Testimony, seal the Law among My Disciples. 18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given Me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion. 20 To the Law and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them.KJV
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the Commandments of God, and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.
This is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Clare73 said:
Gee. . .and the translators of both the Hebrew and the Greek chose "Gentiles" for the translation.
Wonder why that was. . .surely couldn't be because it was correct, could it?

I dunno'. . .

Τοῦτο πρῶτον πίε· ταχὺ ποίει χώρα Ζαβυλὼν, ἡ γη Νεφθαλεὶν, καὶ οἱ
This first let you drink; quickly act O country of Zabulon, the land of Naphtali, and the
λοιποὶ οἱ τὴν παραλίαν, καὶ πέραν τοῦ Ἰορδάνου Γαλιλαία τῶν ἐθνῶν.
rest the the on sea coast, and beyond of the Jordan Galilee of the Ethnos.

"Ethnology (from the Greek: ἔθνος, ethnos meaning 'nation') is an academic field that compares and analyzes the characteristics of different peoples and the relationships between them (compare cultural, social, or sociocultural anthropology).--wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnology

As the former time made light The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, So the latter hath honoured the way of the sea, Beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations.YLT

Isaiah 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness [shall] not [be] such as [was] in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.KJV

and he that is in anguish shall not be distressed only for a time. Drink this first. Act quickly, O land of Zabulon, land of Nephthalim, and the rest inhabiting the sea-coast, and the land beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles.Brenton, LXX(Greek)

Gotta admit, the LXX is really weird in that verse... but that's what the NT chose. (shrug)

Gentiles doesn't always work, does it?

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to Gentiles bringing forth the fruits thereof.
John 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own Gentiles and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?
1 Peter 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy Gentiles, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Clare73 · Aug 12, 2021

Ligurian said:
Τοῦτο πρῶτον πίε· ταχὺ ποίει χώρα Ζαβυλὼν, ἡ γη Νεφθαλεὶν, καὶ οἱ
This first let you drink; quickly act O country of Zabulon, the land of Naphtali, and the
λοιποὶ οἱ τὴν παραλίαν, καὶ πέραν τοῦ Ἰορδάνου Γαλιλαία τῶν ἐθνῶν.
rest the the on sea coast, and beyond of the Jordan Galilee of the Ethnos.

"Ethnology (from the Greek: ἔθνος, ethnos meaning 'nation') is an academic field that compares and analyzes the characteristics of different peoples and the relationships between them (compare cultural, social, or sociocultural anthropology).--wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnology

As the former time made light The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, So the latter hath honoured the way of the sea, Beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations.YLT

Isaiah 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness [shall] not [be] such as [was] in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict [her by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.KJV

and he that is in anguish shall not be distressed only for a time. Drink this first. Act quickly,

O land of Zabulon, land of Nephthalim, and the rest inhabiting the sea-coast, and the land beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles.Brenton, LXX(Greek)
Gotta admit, the LXX is really weird in that verse... but that's what the NT chose. (shrug)
Gentiles doesn't always work, does it?

"Gentiles" is the only meaning when the word is plural,
for all "nations" other than Israel were by definition, Gentiles.

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to Gentiles bringing forth the fruits thereof.--
John 18:35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own Gentiles and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

1 Peter 2:9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy Gentiles, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

In Mt, the word is plural, and the translation is correct.
In Jn and Pe, the word is singular and your translation is incorrect.
In Rev the word is singular, and your translation is correct.

It's not complicated.

Ligurian · Aug 12, 2021

Cornelius77 said:
I agreed the way Jesus died fulfilled the Passover text, but there is more to it.
[...]

But Jesus said we cannot understand heavenly things unless earthly things are shown to us [John 3:12]. During His missionary, He used many earthly parables to explain heavenly/spiritual things.

When God gave man OT law, He formed the covenant with man, and God became the Husband [Jeremiah 31:32] and Israel is the wife. But to break the covenant, the Husband must die [Romans 7:2-3].

Therefore, God came into flesh to die. But that is not the end. He was resurrected again by the Spirit [Romans 8:11] to become a spiritual Husband to be united with us again, the spiritual Church, heavenly Jerusalem. [Ephasians 5:31-32].

This way, the new covenant that is spiritual was established, a.k.a NT law and we are all under the grace of this new covenant.

There are many spiritual teachings in OT law. Eg: burn offering with authorized fire, in which fire symbolized the words of God (Jeremiah 23:29), means worship according to His will/words.

(returns added... I'm quoting the parts I'm addressing)

1. That's not even what John 3:12 means, in context.
John 3:10-12 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you heavenly things?

2. I'm aware of those human testament verses... they never made sense to me. The word for Testament is also translated as Covenant. Jeremiah 31:31-33 says Israel broke the Covenant... not God. The Father gave them the Law at Sinai... not Jesus. In fact, Jesus says His Kingdom Law is also from the Father, John 12:50.

3. Jesus says He raised Himself, John 10:18.
The death of the body of Jesus was necessary because the Passover Lamb of God is defence against the destroyer/accuser, and for the Resurrection Jesus brings to cancel Death and crush the head of the serpent.
Heavenly Jerusalem doesn't come to Earth until after the Millennium, Revelation 21:2. The Kingdom of God comes down in Revelation 14.

4. Grace is the forgiveness of debt. And since y'all believe Romans 10:9, therefore you have no debt, and you don't need any more grace.
So, the only people who will always need grace on this Earth are those who follow the Gospel of the Kingdom; for us, repentence and forgiveness is essential Kingdom Law.

Ligurian · Aug 12, 2021

Clare73 said:
Actually, according to the grammatical construction of Matthew 4:15, it is exactly the right word choice. . .imagine that. . .the NT getting it right. . .wonders never cease. . .

(rust added)

Clare73 said:
"Gentiles" is the only meaning when the word is plural,
for all "nations" other than Israel were by definition, Gentiles.

In Mt, the word is plural, and the translation is correct.
In Jn and Pe, the word is singular and your translation is incorrect.
In Rev the word is singular, and your translation is correct.

It's not complicated.

Thanks for making me do the research.

Τοῦτο πρῶτον πίε· ταχὺ ποίει χώρα Ζαβυλὼν, ἡ γη Νεφθαλεὶν, καὶ οἱ
λοιποὶ οἱ τὴν παραλίαν, καὶ πέραν τοῦ Ἰορδάνου Γαλιλαία τῶν ἐθνῶν.(ethnos)

"The word gentiles is derived from Latin (gentilis) and is used to translate the original Hebrew or Greek words as found in the Bible in specific contexts. The original Hebrew word goy and its Greek equivalent ethnos (in the singular) can refer to any group of "people" or "nation," including the "nation" of Israel."--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentile

"The word "Gentile" does not come from either the Hebrew language or from the Greek language. The word "gentile" has come into the English language from the Latin language.

The Latin word "gens, gentis" means: a family, a clan, a stock of people, a race, a tribe, a people, a nation. This is the root from which our English word "Gentile" has been formed. Now it should be immediately apparent that "gens" has a considerable scope of meaning and of application. And the plural "gentes" refers to multiple races, tribes and nations. The plural Latin word "gentes" is most assuredly not restricted to any particular ethnic or racial group of people. It applies to people of all ethnic and all racial backgrounds.

However, that is not how the English word "Gentile" is used in the Church of God today, or in our English language translations, is it? When people in the Church use the word "Gentile", then they wish to make a racial distinction."
THE USE OF THE WORD "GENTILE" IN THE BIBLE - franknelte.net

Why did translators use a Latin loan-word in a Greek to English Bible?
And why did Strong's aid this deception?

Clare73 · Aug 12, 2021

Ligurian said:
(rust added)

Thanks for making me do the research.

Τοῦτο πρῶτον πίε· ταχὺ ποίει χώρα Ζαβυλὼν, ἡ γη Νεφθαλεὶν, καὶ οἱ
λοιποὶ οἱ τὴν παραλίαν, καὶ πέραν τοῦ Ἰορδάνου Γαλιλαία τῶν ἐθνῶν.(ethnos)

"The word gentiles is derived from Latin (gentilis) and is used to translate the original Hebrew or Greek words as found in the Bible in specific contexts. The original Hebrew word goy and its Greek equivalent ethnos (in the singular) can refer to any group of "people" or "nation," including the "nation" of Israel."--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentile

"The word "Gentile" does not come from either the Hebrew language or from the Greek language. The word "gentile" has come into the English language from the Latin language.

The Latin word "gens, gentis" means: a family, a clan, a stock of people, a race, a tribe, a people, a nation. This is the root from which our English word "Gentile" has been formed. Now it should be immediately apparent that "gens" has a considerable scope of meaning and of application. And the plural "gentes" refers to multiple races, tribes and nations. The plural Latin word "gentes" is most assuredly not restricted to any particular ethnic or racial group of people. It applies to people of all ethnic and all racial backgrounds.

However, that is not how the English word "Gentile" is used in the Church of God today, or in our English language translations, is it? When people in the Church use the word "Gentile", then they wish to make a racial distinction."
THE USE OF THE WORD "GENTILE" IN THE BIBLE - franknelte.net

Why did translators use a Latin loan-word in a Greek to English Bible?
And why did Strong's aid this deception?

It matters not, Bilbical meaning is determined by Biblical usage.

All "nations" were Gentiles, except for the "nation" Israel.
Bible 101

Ligurian · Aug 12, 2021

Clare73 said:
It matters not, Bilbical meaning is determined by Biblical usage.

All "nations" were Gentiles, except for the "nation" Israel.
Bible 101

"When people in the Church use the word "Gentile", then they wish to make a racial distinction."
THE USE OF THE WORD "GENTILE" IN THE BIBLE - franknelte.net

Clare73 said:
Galilee was occupied by Gentiles, and was called Galilee of the Gentiles before Israel occupied it.
It kept its name after Israel finally occupied it. That is the origin of the name.

It's not about ten tribes.

I guess that's not really the origin of the name Gentiles.
So... what makes one Semitic-language speaker a "Gentile", but another Semitic-language speaker a "nation"?

"The thesis was presented not only to demonstrate that the Pan-Babylonists' claims must be abandoned, but also to show that the elements from which the Semitic Babylonian religion had largely evolved had their origin in the West land, or in the land of Amurru; and that, instead of the Hebrew culture being imported from Babylonia, it had grown up and developed naturally from older and indigenous civilizations which had come down from generations reaching far back into the ages. To make this appear reasonable, it became necessary to show that there was an antiquity for the civilization of this Semitic land which had been hitherto unrecognized."
The empire of the Amorites : Clay, Albert Tobias

"The Amorite language belongs to the western branch of the Semitic language family, and it is the oldest known West-Semitic language."--wiley.com

Ligurian · Aug 12, 2021

Ligurian said:
To be a Disciple of Jesus, you'd have to keep Jesus' Commandments, and then you'd be given the Holy Spirit, John 14:15-17.

Clare73 said:
Contra-Biblical. . .says no such thing. . ."And" is not "Then."

John 14:15 If ye love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; 17 the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

14:24 He that loveth Me not keepeth not My words: and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.

Ligurian · Aug 12, 2021

Clare73 said:
Same gospel. . .of which there is only one.

Multiple gospels is an invention of man totally contrary to authoritive NT teaching.

1 Corinthians 3:10, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15
.

Seariously? Well then, apart from Galatians 2:7-9, how do you account for these differences?

Paul's gospel of Christ crucified:
1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom:
John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on Me, believeth not on Me, but on Him that sent Me. 45 And he that seeth Me seeth Him that sent Me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear My words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that His Commandment is Life Everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto Me, so I speak.
Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward [is] with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Why did the Lord come to the earth?

Wise old man

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Wise old man

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Cro-Magnon

Cro-Magnon

Cro-Magnon

Well-Known Member

Cro-Magnon

Blood-bought

7Lion

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Blood-bought

Cro-Magnon

Cro-Magnon

Blood-bought

Cro-Magnon

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