What Do You Think Of Mockery?

Chesterton said:

@Justin-H.S. posted a good video in another thread. Toward the end it mentions that ridicule is a legitimate tool. It reminded me of some years ago listening to some members of what they called the intellectual dark web saying the same thing. It also reminded me of when I recently brought this up among some friends from church. I said that some Christian on the internet (CF I think) said we should never mock, because it's mean. But everyone, to a man, agreed that mockery is sometimes appropriate. My sub-deacon cited examples of Saints who used mockery. I don't remember his examples, but I know we find St. Elijah in 1 Kings 18:27, and St. Paul in Galatians 5:12 perhaps engaged in mockery. Did God Himself mock Job when He asked Job "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding."

Can we make a distinction between mocking people, which is mean, and mocking their ideas?

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What’s the difference between mockery and satire?

My understanding is not to answer mockery in the same folly.

Chesterton said:

Can we make a distinction between mocking people, which is mean, and mocking their ideas?

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I'd say yes. St Lawrence mocked his martyrdom, but prayed for his executioners.

When you mock someone they go into a defensive mode and whatever chance you had to reach them has dissipated into the ether.

Mockery can be a great tool. John of Damascus, Dionysius Bar Salibi, and of course the Zaparozhian Cossaks mocked Islam to great effect, for instance. That's not to say that it is always the best response, but I think in particular when dealing with pride, nothing quite cuts to the quick like mockery. "Stop it; you're being hypocritical" does not have the same effect as our Lord Jesus Christ's actual rebuke: "You are like whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men's bones and every impurity."

Mockery is an effective rhetorical tool which should not be completely abandoned. It can also point to a genuine truth about your opponents position. That's what makes comedy so effective.

I like the “agree and amplify” method mockery. Usually this is used as a response when you yourself are mocked, but it can also be a great offensive tool if used masterfully.

I think it depends on the intent behind the mockery, i.e. are you trying to humiliate and upset someone? Or are you trying to use a rhetorical tool to get them and others to see the error of their ways?

Chesterton said:

@Justin-H.S. posted a good video in another thread. Toward the end it mentions that ridicule is a legitimate tool. It reminded me of some years ago listening to some members of what they called the intellectual dark web saying the same thing. It also reminded me of when I recently brought this up among some friends from church. I said that some Christian on the internet (CF I think) said we should never mock, because it's mean. But everyone, to a man, agreed that mockery is sometimes appropriate. My sub-deacon cited examples of Saints who used mockery. I don't remember his examples, but I know we find St. Elijah in 1 Kings 18:27, and St. Paul in Galatians 5:12 perhaps engaged in mockery. Did God Himself mock Job when He asked Job "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding."

Can we make a distinction between mocking people, which is mean, and mocking their ideas?

Click to expand...

Mockery has always been a part of debate. I personally don't like it but it has always been widely accepted. Origin wrote in Contra Celsum that Celsus "babbled" about things he did not understand. That is a very mild example of some of the mockery used by early Christians, including the early Fathers. I suppose that mockery as a form of debate is acceptable, as someone said above, mockery of ideas. But mockery as an expression of hatred or pure meanness is not.

It's funny I've often heard Galatians 5:12, Paul referring to the Circumcision Party and saying 'I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!' but actually at the moment, I don't see that in the translations that I normally go by, so I'm not sure where I came across it.

"12 I would they were even cut off, who trouble you."

In all 3 of the ones I would look at.
which you could *kinda* take that way but it would be a stretch.

Mockery as a tool; from time to time certainly in scripture different things or points of view have deliberately been held up to ridicule, but I think always against God's standard when done correctly? Like... you are doing X, trusting in Y, relying on Z... instead of A, B, C. Here's what that is like: mock mock mock. Mockery mostly communicates disdain, so I guess it depends on what you want to communicate and why. I'm sure there are places where it is appropriate, not so sure I'm qualified to know what and when they are. Mockery of a position or of pride which makes no sense or is clearly disingenuous seems reasonable to me.

"If you can't learn to laugh at yourself, don't worry. Others will do it for you."

I’m thinking about what you said about Saints, including the Apostle Paul and the Prophet Elijah, and I believe yes that God in Scripture and through the words of Jesus used mockery to good effect. It is obviously an effective tool when needed. I just think it takes a GREAT deal of discernment and guidance of the Holy Spirit to be able to do so. I’m thinking it might be presumption to place ourselves in that company.

Anyway - you asked about the difference between mocking people and their ideas. I think there is a difference. It makes me feel a little better, since our neighbors unexpectedly took a very offensive position against us in this current crazy climate we find ourselves in but were directing it at us personally, using the words “you people are the problem” - it has been hurtful.

I’m so tired of the many ways we are dividing ourselves.

Chesterton said:

@Justin-H.S. posted a good video in another thread. Toward the end it mentions that ridicule is a legitimate tool. It reminded me of some years ago listening to some members of what they called the intellectual dark web saying the same thing. It also reminded me of when I recently brought this up among some friends from church. I said that some Christian on the internet (CF I think) said we should never mock, because it's mean. But everyone, to a man, agreed that mockery is sometimes appropriate. My sub-deacon cited examples of Saints who used mockery. I don't remember his examples, but I know we find St. Elijah in 1 Kings 18:27, and St. Paul in Galatians 5:12 perhaps engaged in mockery. Did God Himself mock Job when He asked Job "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding."

Can we make a distinction between mocking people, which is mean, and mocking their ideas?

Click to expand...