Portland sees Antifa descend on Christian worship event, clash with Proud Boys in streets

Sep 8, 2012
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spiritfilledjm

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That’s probably why that group is there to cause trouble. The proud boys are branded terrorists in Canada.
...it was antifa that attacked the service...
 
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spiritfilledjm

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The original story from the local Portland Tribune is somewhat different in context. It appears that the pastor's event actually went on and concluded as scheduled, but "left-wing anti-fascists, often dubbed antifa" and counter-protestors in Proud Boys colors clashed after the Christian meeting had concluded.

Pamplin Media Group - Left-, right-wing groups clash at rally in downtown Portland
That can't be correct as videos and pictures show the pastor being pepper sprayed on stage and antifa throwing stuff into the crowd. If it was over, why were they still there and why was the pastor still on stage?
 
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Fr. Appletree

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Romans Chapter 13 comes to mind.

It's best for Christians to stay out of these politically energized disputes.

An unrecognized pastor contracting an informal political "gang" for lack of better terms (proud boys), as security for his preaching, is just as concerning as the political "gang" (antifa) that clashed with the proud boys.

He is not unrecognized. His recognition was removed recently by the Canadian Government in an act of persecution.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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The bottom line here is that families were there for worship. This wasn't your run of the mill random street preacher who was screaming at everyone. This was a planned worship and preaching event in a public park. Even then, it doesn't matter. This is America, one should not be physically assaulted for processing their faith in public. Want to question them, debate them? Go nuts. But to spray pepper spray where children are present, throw flashbangs, smoke bombs and the like, is completely unamerican and wrong.
No human being should be indulging in that behaviour. We are not dealing with country borders anymore. We are ambassadors from heaven to a dying world. God have mercy on us all.
 
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A_JAY

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Violence in the street is disgusting. What happened is disgusting. Proud Boys and anti-fascists are to be deplored. But I am not convinced that this preacher guy was there for benign purposes. It has been said that he had Proud Boys as his security guards. He holds anti-mask rallies, and anti this and that. He sounds like a Westboro Baptist Church type, Pacific Northwest style. I would be interested, though, in hearing what Pawlawski actually said. Do you know what he did say that day?



There are those who get their queue from Fox[which is in the outrage business], and throw out this fear and victimhood card.

To what end? I don't believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ has anything to do with it. I fear that they are pushing for a more secular solution, a revolution that is nowhere found in Scripture, but only in political theory.

Wherein is the Gospel of Jesus Christ in that?

[note: heavily edited]
 
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Job 33:6

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He is not unrecognized. His recognition was removed recently by the Canadian Government in an act of persecution.

If he's out hiring politically charged thugs with paintball guns to defend his gatherings, he's probably illegitimate. I don't know what kind of church you attend, but if you're surrounded by guys with paintball guns in kevlar vests, you're probably not doing it right.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Romans Chapter 13 comes to mind.

It's best for Christians to stay out of these politically energized disputes.

An unrecognized pastor contracting an informal political "gang" for lack of better terms (proud boys), as security for his preaching, is just as concerning as the political "gang" (antifa) that clashed with the proud boys.
Did he contract them? How do you know?
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Violence in the street is disgusting. What happened is disgusting. Proud Boys and anti-fascists are to be deplored. But I am not convinced that this preacher guy was there for benign purposes. It has been said that he had Proud Boys as his security guards. Nothing is as it seems.

There seems to be an increasing view among Christians [some] on this board, that they are being persecuted, or will be persecuted if we don't watch out. That is just bunk. That seems to be in the playbook of some Christians to preach the gospel of victimhood and grievance.

I think the persecution in the minds of some are not for the right reason, not for defending the Gospel of Jesus Christ, but for defending a more 'poltically energized' goal.

Furthermore, I think that the 'Woe is us, we are being persecuted' Christians next logical step is "Let's hit the streets"

At that point the wolf and the sheep will be revealed.
Jesus told us we will be persecuted. The bible and prayer have been taken out of schools and hospitals and courtrooms the whole world over, and what it is being replaced with is ridicule and hatred of Christ and all things Christian. There are people being beheaded in other countries you have no idea where for their faith in Christ. In the picture it is clear that this antifa group is proudly satanic. I don't see the confusion here. This is persecution. A worship event was interrupted with smoke bombs and pepper spray where women and children were present. Why? Are we not allowed to worship in the open anymore, either?
 
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Job 33:6

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Did he contract them? How do you know?

Well why else would they be there? Most preachers have control over their own "security". If a bunch of guys walked into my church with kevlar vests and paintball guns claiming to be there to defend our lead pastor, they'd be kicked out and probably fined. Unless the church wanted them to be there. And honestly, that should be a huge red flag for all of us.

Extremism attracts extremism and we shouldn't be in that mix. If you find yourself among political activists intermingled with church, who are participating in armed conflicts. You need to flee as fast as you can away from these people.

When Paul wrote his chapter on Romans, he was highlighting the value of the gospel over political theater. But pulling in right wing activists to defend your sermon, you'd be doing the exact opposite of what Paul calls for us to do.

Jesus mission wasn't to lead an army against the Roman government. It was to preach the good news.

We are here to spread the gospel, not to get caught up between political infighting. Our King is Jesus. Not anyone else. We shouldn't be caught between clashes of political extremists.

It's not our mission to join these gangs one way or the other. And they don't represent us or our interests. the proud boys don't represent Christ. And we shouldn't want to melt our identity with theirs. Same with antifa. If you're a Christian and you're around people trying to topple the government. Go read Romans and flee.
 
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Fr. Appletree

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If he's out hiring politically charged thugs with paintball guns to defend his gatherings, he's probably illegitimate. I don't know what kind of church you attend, but if you're surrounded by guys with paintball guns in kevlar vests, you're probably not doing it right.

Considering he was unjustly arrested by police who had broken Canadian law multiple times by interrupting his services, and was arrested for violating a court order that was kept a secret from him by the government and considering they shuttered the doors to his Church, he's doing the right thing
 
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Job 33:6

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Considering he was unjustly arrested by police who had broken Canadian law multiple times by interrupting his services, and was arrested for violating a court order that was kept a secret from him by the government and considering they shuttered the doors to his Church, he's doing the right thing

Like I said above, if you're following a pastor who is getting tied up in political armed gang-like conflicts, you're doing it wrong. And no Christian should be trying to argue against this. Christ is our King, not neo-fascists, not anti-fascists either.

If you attend a sermon and it's surrounded by random political activist "militants" in kevlar vests with paint guns, I would implore you to flee as fast as you can.
 
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renniks

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Like I said above, if you're following a pastor who is getting tied up in political armed gang-like conflicts, you're doing it wrong. And no Christian should be trying to argue against this. Christ is our King, not neo-fascists, not anti-fascists either.

If you attend a sermon and it's surrounded by random political activist "militants" in kevlar vests with paint guns, I would implore you to flee as fast as you can.
Um.. you are making a lot of assumptions. Obviously on the street anyone can show up.

It's disappointing that the police do not do their job, but then in Portland it seems like they're not allowed to anymore.
Antifa are terrorists and should be treated as such.
 
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SilverBear

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The bottom line here is that families were there for worship. This wasn't your run of the mill random street preacher who was screaming at everyone. This was a planned worship and preaching event in a public park. Even then, it doesn't matter. This is America, one should not be physically assaulted for processing their faith in public. Want to question them, debate them? Go nuts. But to spray pepper spray where children are present, throw flashbangs, smoke bombs and the like, is completely unamerican and wrong.

Considering the very well known rhetoric of this street preacher and his attacks on minorities and on the police one has to wonder just what sort of parent would bring their children to see such a man
 
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Job 33:6

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Um.. you are making a lot of assumptions. Obviously on the street anyone can show up.

According to the BBC there was a large proud boys rally throughout Portland. They organized and marched into and throughout the city.

Portland rally: Far-right and antifa groups face off

Why a politically energized pastor is holding a sermon during a proud boys rally event in a liberal city, it says a lot about the circumstances. This pastor is playing into the political division. Don't be fooled into thinking he was just some innocent pastor holding a typical sermon about the good news. No, he was there to spread not the word of God, but to spread politics.

It's not like antifa just went on Google and looked up some random church and decided to show up. And it's not like this pastor just found some random park and out of pure chance just happened to be in the middle of the conflict. This is pre-meditated, political conflict.

It's all politics. And Christians just shouldn't be wrapped up on this fascist vs anti fascist conflict. Our mission is to spread the gospel, not to be picking sides.

Check out some of these commentaries:

Andy Ngo, a far-right commentator, wrote on Twitter that Antifa had tried to "attack & shut down a family Christian prayer & worship event on the waterfront."

(Andy Ngo - fox news commentator, frequently accused of sharing misleading or selective material,[15] described as a provocateur,[23] and accused of having links with militant right-wing groups in Portland.[27]) -wiki

Reverand Chuck Currie from Portland wrote, "Christian minister in Portland here. This was no "family Christian prayer event." It was a far-right political rally organized by a failed MAGA congressional candidate from CA."

Rev. Chuck Currie - minister in the United Church of Christ (UCC). Received death threats from capitol riot supporters and a local lgbtq rights supporter.

This is all just political infighting, and every Christian should flee. None are innocent here. And they weren't there with good intentions.
 
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SongOnTheWind

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Well why else would they be there? Most preachers have control over their own "security". If a bunch of guys walked into my church with kevlar vests and paintball guns claiming to be there to defend our lead pastor, they'd be kicked out and probably fined. Unless the church wanted them to be there. And honestly, that should be a huge red flag for all of us.

Extremism attracts extremism and we shouldn't be in that mix. If you find yourself among political activists intermingled with church, who are participating in armed conflicts. You need to flee as fast as you can away from these people.

When Paul wrote his chapter on Romans, he was highlighting the value of the gospel over political theater. But pulling in right wing activists to defend your sermon, you'd be doing the exact opposite of what Paul calls for us to do.

Jesus mission wasn't to lead an army against the Roman government. It was to preach the good news.

We are here to spread the gospel, not to get caught up between political infighting. Our King is Jesus. Not anyone else. We shouldn't be caught between clashes of political extremists.

It's not our mission to join these gangs one way or the other. And they don't represent us or our interests. the proud boys don't represent Christ. And we shouldn't want to melt our identity with theirs. Same with antifa. If you're a Christian and you're around people trying to topple the government. Go read Romans and flee.
I would agree if he really was there to antagonise and not to hold an open worship service. Religious freedoms are being eroded every day, and one faith in particular is being singled out. Judging by who our enemy is, that should not come as a big surprise. One day we will cry for our freedoms, and then the question will come: why did you not fight for them then?
God is our victory, not men, but we can at least stand up for what we believe in.
 
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