Ceremonial Law like circumcision -- vs moral law of TEN Comm with Sabbath for ALL

BobRyan

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Apparently not, because you have divided the Law of Moses into three parts even though Paul never divided up the Law in this way.
.

1 Cor 7:19 ceremonial law vs moral law of God (according to Paul) -- the "Commandments of God" vs circumcision.

Heb 10:4-12 the animal sacrifice and offerings law ended at the cross

Rom 7, Eph 6:2 the moral law of God continued even for saints.

Rom 3:19-20 - the moral law of God condemns all the lost

===================

And of course - civil laws end with the Theocracy they were given to when it ended.

Bible details sooooo obvious that Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations admit to them.
 
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BABerean2

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1 Cor 7:19 ceremonial law vs moral law of God (according to Paul) -- the "Commandments of God" vs circumcision.

Heb 10:4-12 the animal sacrifice and offerings law ended at the cross

Rom 7, Eph 6:2 the moral law of God continued even for saints.

Rom 3:19-20 - the moral law of God condemns all the lost

===================

And of course - civil laws end with the Theocracy they were given to when it ended.

Bible details sooooo obvious that Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations admit to them.


I could not find the term "the moral law" in any of the passages you provided.
Apparently, it comes from men instead of from God.


Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.


The verse above reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant, and is confirmed in Galatians 4:24-31 where Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".


How much clearer could it be?

Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.



Paul addresses your "denominations" in the verse below.

1Co 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

.
 
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BobRyan

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I could not find the term "the moral law" in any of the passages you provided.

You also did not find the word "Trinity" in any of the quotes I gave.

However Rom 3:19-20 and 1 John 3:4 make the case for the moral law of God as that which "defines what sin IS" and Eph 6:2 makes it clear that the TEN Commandments are included in that moral law of God still binding on all mankind.

Glaringly obvious Bible details affirmed by Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath topic in almost all Christian denominations on planet Earth.

So then... it is "Still a sin" to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 -- even for Christians.

The point remains.
 
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BobRyan

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Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

The verse above reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant, and is confirmed in Galatians 4:24-31 where Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

How much clearer could it be?

Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

you're not following the point in the post.

I will put it another way --

1. From Adam to today - "there is only ONE Gospel" Gal 1:6-9
2. The NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 is that Gospel where the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers to include the TEN - is "written on the heart and mind" and forgiveness of sins is granted as well as adoption into the family of God.
3. So the NEW Covenant is the ONE Gospel under which all were saved OT or NT who were ever saved and that includes the pre-cross case of Moses and Elijah standing "in glory" with Christ before the Cross.
4. The OLD Covenant is basically "obey and live" as Gal 3 points out and it is THE covenant under which all mankind is lost - all under the condemnation of the law "for all have sinned" Rom 3:23. So then "ALL the WORLD" is lost under that "Agreement" that "covenant" as Rom 3:19-20 reminds us. So ALL need the Gospel.

As I stated before your argument requires you to find a text saying that the Commandments of God were deleted/set-aside/made-null/abolished under that Jer 31:31-34 NEW Covenant and no text says anything like that.

In addition the Old Covenant Law such as "do not take God's name in vain" is still condemning all mankind as sinners - just as the New Covenant Law (such as "Do not take God's name in vain") is written on the heart.

5. The LAW of God written on the heart includes the TEN where "honor your father and mother is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2

As already noted -- "you are not following the point" - you are being helped considerably in that agenda - by not actually reading or responding to the Bible points listed in my post.
 
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BABerean2

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As already noted -- "you are not following the point" - you are being helped considerably in that agenda - by not actually reading or responding to the Bible points listed in my post.


When you ignore Galatians 3:19, and Galatians 4:24-31, and Hebrews 8:13, you may have one finger pointing at me, but you have three fingers pointing back in your direction.


.
 
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BobRyan

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When you ignore Galatians 3:19, and Galatians 4:24-31, and Hebrews 8:13, you may have one finger pointing at me, but you have three fingers pointing back in your direction.

.

GAl 3 ignored by me? no not by me.

GAL 3

Ten Commandments begin in Eden - according to the Bible - and "Baptist Confession of Faith" and "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and many others.

=================================================


Galatians 3
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

What "inheritance"? -- Hebrews 11 - "New Jerusalem" heavenly Canaan.
Heb 11
9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
...
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

The Gospel/ The Covenant / The promise --

=============== why the law written on stone?
Transgression was “Before” Sinai .

Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

It was added because of transgressions, (that were before Sinai) Gal 3:19
Where there is no Law neither is there transgression” Romans 4:15

Law before Sinai - even if not written on stone.
It was a sin to “take God’s name in vain” even before Sinai –
It was a sin to murder before Sinai - Genesis 4
Gen 26:5 “Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

===========================================
Gal 3
20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!

God’s Law is “written on stone” at Sinai – because of transgressions – they needed the “visual aide” to remind them.

What about ceremonial law “it too was given at Sinai … but it ceased at the cross no matter if one believes in Christ or not”.

Another thing about the ceremonial law – they had animal sacrifices before Sinai… animal sacrifice was not started at Sinai.

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.

What is the “promise” – what is “the Covenant confirmed before by God in Christ”? -- the NEW Covenant.

1. The Law written on the heart Jeremiah 31:31-33
2. Sins forgiven
3. Taught by God
4. Adopted into the family of God
which is the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

Thus it is "STILL" a sin to "take God's name in vain"
And so in Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is the "first commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN

No wonder in Mathew 19 Christ quotes from the TEN
No wonder in Romans 13 Paul quotes those same commandments from the unit of TEN
No wonder James 2 quotes from the unit of TEN
No wonder Romans 8 quotes from the unit of TEN

No wonder John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
1 John 5:2-3

No wonder the "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 according to John

No wonder all those Sunday groups listed in my signature line affirm all TEN as still applicable to all mankind - written on the heart under the New Covenant
 
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BobRyan

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When you ignore Galatians 3:19, and Galatians 4:24-31, ...
.

?? Gal 4 ignored by me?

No ... not by me.

GAL 4

Given this --

Rev 14:12
  • "The saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus

1 John 5:2-3
  • "2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and a]">[a]observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."

Matthew 19
  • Christ said "Keep the commandments" and is asked "which ones" -- then Christ gives the same list we see Paul giving in Romans 13 -- quoting from the TEN Commandments

===============================================
Let's Read Galatians 4:
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

In Romans 3:19-21 Paul already defined his use of the phrase "Under the Law"
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Paul makes the case that the Law is still binding
And it defines what sin is.
And it condemns all mankind - showing that all need salvation... need the Gospel for "All have sinned" Rom 3:23

The church in Galatia is a gentile church - not a Jewish one.
And why is Paul accusing a gentile church of this?
Why does Paul think the gentiles of Galatia want to be "under the Law"?

Here Paul is expanding on what He thinks of certain Gentiles in Galatia

Gal 5
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Back to Romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Why does Paul think the gentiles in Galatia are guilty of this?

ANSWER:
Gal 5
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

Ah-hah -- is that the great sin of the gentiles in Galatia??

Nope. Paul requires that Timothy be circumcised

Acts 16
a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek. 2 He was well spoken of by the brethren who were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted to have him go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek.


Gal 5 - whether you are circumcised or not - does not matter.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is keeping of the commandments of God.

Repeatedly Paul teaches that while it is true that it does not matter if one is circumcised or not - yet when the gentiles in Galatia do it -- they are "fallen from grace" and "severed from Christ". Gal 5:4

Why?

Because they are doing it as a "sign" that they wish to be "justified by law" Gal 5:4

Where did the GENTILES in Galatia get that idea if not from Paul?

Answer: a certain small contingent of Christian Jews from Judea
Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”​

They simply made that idea up -- no OT or NT scripture required it. The Christian gentiles in Galatia were giving in to Jewish practice of "making stuff up" and setting their own tradition = the Bible.

Gal 4
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic.

  • Paul now tells the reader he is switching over from real-life-literal to "symbolic".
  • In real life it is the children of Isaac son of Sarah that gather at Sinai - not the children Ishmael son of Hagar.

So this is not Paul claiming that Moses and Elijah who stand "with Christ" in Matthew 17 - in glory-- are standing in opposition to Christ, opposition to Grace, opposition to the Gospel.

Gal 4
For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—

Paul argues that in rejecting the Messiah -- The non-Christian Jews (as well as Christian Jews that choose to "make stuff up" place tradition above the Bible) -- and by symbol - Jerusalem as their capital - stand in opposition to the Gospel - as a counterfeit to it - just as Hagar and Ishmael represented a counterfeit to the promise - that was to come through Sarah's son Isaac.


Gal 4
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Jerusalem above "is mother of us all" - of both Christian gentiles and Christian Jews. Our "heritage" our "national and family identity" is united in the "Jerusalem above" which was in heaven at the time of Sinai and still is to this very day.

Paul is taking away the "heritage problem" that he brings up in Gal 4

8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

That was the gentile pagan "heritage" and that is apparently what the Christian Jews promoting circumcision of gentiles were selling them - a "deal" for getting rid of their pagan heritage by identifying with literal Jews or by engaging in other forms of syncretism

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.


Gal 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now

Indeed - Christians were being persecuted by non-Christian Jews from Judea
 
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BobRyan

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When you ignore...and Hebrews 8:13, you may have one finger pointing at me, but you have three fingers pointing back in your direction.
.

Heb 8 ignored by me? no not by me.

Heb 8:6-12 makes it very clear that Christ is the one speaking at Sinai

1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord set up, not man... 6 But now He (Christ) has obtained a more excellent ministry, to the extent that He (Christ) is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been free of fault, no circumstances would have been sought for a second. 8 For in finding fault with the people, He (Christ) says,

“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord (Christ),
When I (Christ) will bring about a new covenant
With the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
9 Not like the covenant which I (Christ) made with their fathers
On the day I (Christ) took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I (Christ) did not care about them, says the Lord (Christ).
10 For this is the covenant which I (Christ) will make with the house of Israel
After those days, declares the Lord:
I (Christ) will put My (Christ) laws into their minds,
And write them on their hearts.
And I (Christ) will be their God,
And they shall be My (Christ) people.
11 And they will not teach, each one his fellow citizen,
And each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
For they will all know Me (Christ),
From the least to the greatest of them.
12 For I (Christ) will be merciful toward their wrongdoings,
And their sins I (Christ) will no longer remember.”
===============================

So then the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 known to Jeremiah and his readers writes the LAW of God "on heart and mind". That includes the TEN according to Paul in Eph 6:2 having "honor your father and mother as the first commandment WITH a promise". And even in the NT - "Sin IS the transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4. Which means it is "still a sin" - to take God's name in vain (Ex 20:7) - even for born again Christians.

So then NO such thing as "God's covenant deleted/removed/annulled/set-aside/made void" - the Commandments of God.

Rather "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
And "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Where saints are commanded to "fulfill" compliance with those commandments found in the Law of Moses as noted by Christ in Matt 19 where He says "KEEP the Commandments" - and Paul quotes from that same list in Rom 13.

Rom 3:"31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? Far from it! On the contrary, we establish the Law."



===============================

We can notice that the Law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers included the TEN - as Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations freely admit


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


That is a good example of a text that does not say "the Commandments of God have been made obsolete" but rather the old covenant is obsolete for those under the New Covenant.

Here is another one "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

No wonder these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians and the Sabbath in Eden for all mankind from Eden to the cross.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

I like it when Christians from many different points of view can all agree on the same obvious Bible details.

notice in the quote above (of me)



Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


That is a good example of a text that does not say "the Commandments of God have been made obsolete" but rather the old covenant is obsolete for those under the New Covenant.

Here is another one "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

No wonder these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians and the Sabbath in Eden for all mankind from Eden to the cross.
 
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BABerean2

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No wonder these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians and the Sabbath in Eden for all mankind from Eden to the cross.

Not the sources found below.

The two passages below were written by the Apostle Paul. He reveals here the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant. See also Deuteronomy 5:3.


Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

------------------------------------------

Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)

.
 
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Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Until you read

GAL 3

Ten Commandments begin in Eden - according to the Bible - and "Baptist Confession of Faith" and "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody and many others.

=================================================


Galatians 3
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

What "inheritance"? -- Hebrews 11 - "New Jerusalem" heavenly Canaan.
Heb 11
9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
...
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

The Gospel/ The Covenant / The promise --

=============== why the law written on stone?
Transgression was “Before” Sinai .

Gal 3:19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.

It was added because of transgressions, (that were before Sinai) Gal 3:19
Where there is no Law neither is there transgression” Romans 4:15

Law before Sinai - even if not written on stone.
It was a sin to “take God’s name in vain” even before Sinai –
It was a sin to murder before Sinai - Genesis 4
Gen 26:5 “Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

===========================================
Gal 3
20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!

God’s Law is “written on stone” at Sinai – because of transgressions – they needed the “visual aide” to remind them.

What about ceremonial law “it too was given at Sinai … but it ceased at the cross no matter if one believes in Christ or not”.

Another thing about the ceremonial law – they had animal sacrifices before Sinai… animal sacrifice was not started at Sinai.

15 Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it.
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.

What is the “promise” – what is “the Covenant confirmed before by God in Christ”? -- the NEW Covenant.

1. The Law written on the heart Jeremiah 31:31-33
2. Sins forgiven
3. Taught by God
4. Adopted into the family of God
which is the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

Thus it is "STILL" a sin to "take God's name in vain"
And so in Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is the "first commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unit of TEN

No wonder in Mathew 19 Christ quotes from the TEN
No wonder in Romans 13 Paul quotes those same commandments from the unit of TEN
No wonder James 2 quotes from the unit of TEN
No wonder Romans 8 quotes from the unit of TEN

No wonder John says "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
1 John 5:2-3

No wonder the "Saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 according to John

No wonder all those Sunday groups listed in my signature line affirm all TEN as still applicable to all mankind - written on the heart under the New Covenant

hmmm - GAl 3:17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect

Notice that the promise given before Sinai did not make void the commandment "do not take God's name in vain"?? see how that works.. no wonder Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations admit to these obvious Bible details.

So then... it is "still a sin" to take God's name in vain.. .even for Christians
 
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BobRyan

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Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

.

GAL 4

Given this --

Rev 14:12
  • "The saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus

1 John 5:2-3
  • "2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and a]">[a]observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."

Matthew 19
  • Christ said "Keep the commandments" and is asked "which ones" -- then Christ gives the same list we see Paul giving in Romans 13 -- quoting from the TEN Commandments

===============================================
Let's Read Galatians 4:
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

In Romans 3:19-21 Paul already defined his use of the phrase "Under the Law"
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Paul makes the case that the Law is still binding
And it defines what sin is.
And it condemns all mankind - showing that all need salvation... need the Gospel for "All have sinned" Rom 3:23

The church in Galatia is a gentile church - not a Jewish one.
And why is Paul accusing a gentile church of this?
Why does Paul think the gentiles of Galatia want to be "under the Law"?

Here Paul is expanding on what He thinks of certain Gentiles in Galatia

Gal 5
4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Back to Romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Why does Paul think the gentiles in Galatia are guilty of this?

ANSWER:
Gal 5
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

Ah-hah -- is that the great sin of the gentiles in Galatia??

Nope. Paul requires that Timothy be circumcised

Acts 16
a certain disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a certain Jewish woman who believed, but his father was Greek. 2 He was well spoken of by the brethren who were at Lystra and Iconium. 3 Paul wanted to have him go on with him. And he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in that region, for they all knew that his father was Greek.


Gal 5 - whether you are circumcised or not - does not matter.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is keeping of the commandments of God.

Repeatedly Paul teaches that while it is true that it does not matter if one is circumcised or not - yet when the gentiles in Galatia do it -- they are "fallen from grace" and "severed from Christ". Gal 5:4

Why?

Because they are doing it as a "sign" that they wish to be "justified by law" Gal 5:4

Where did the GENTILES in Galatia get that idea if not from Paul?

Answer: a certain small contingent of Christian Jews from Judea
Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”​

They simply made that idea up -- no OT or NT scripture required it. The Christian gentiles in Galatia were giving in to Jewish practice of "making stuff up" and setting their own tradition = the Bible.

Gal 4
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic.

  • Paul now tells the reader he is switching over from real-life-literal to "symbolic".
  • In real life it is the children of Isaac son of Sarah that gather at Sinai - not the children Ishmael son of Hagar.

So this is not Paul claiming that Moses and Elijah who stand "with Christ" in Matthew 17 - in glory-- are standing in opposition to Christ, opposition to Grace, opposition to the Gospel.

Gal 4
For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—

Paul argues that in rejecting the Messiah -- The non-Christian Jews (as well as Christian Jews that choose to "make stuff up" place tradition above the Bible) -- and by symbol - Jerusalem as their capital - stand in opposition to the Gospel - as a counterfeit to it - just as Hagar and Ishmael represented a counterfeit to the promise - that was to come through Sarah's son Isaac.


Gal 4
26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Jerusalem above "is mother of us all" - of both Christian gentiles and Christian Jews. Our "heritage" our "national and family identity" is united in the "Jerusalem above" which was in heaven at the time of Sinai and still is to this very day.

Paul is taking away the "heritage problem" that he brings up in Gal 4

8 But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods.

That was the gentile pagan "heritage" and that is apparently what the Christian Jews promoting circumcision of gentiles were selling them - a "deal" for getting rid of their pagan heritage by identifying with literal Jews or by engaging in other forms of syncretism

9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I am afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain.


Gal 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now

Indeed - Christians were being persecuted by non-Christian Jews from Judea

Those of us that read that part of Gal 4 find this in that quote above

Gal 4
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic.

  • Paul now tells the reader he is switching over from real-life-literal to "symbolic".
  • In real life it is the children of Isaac son of Sarah that gather at Sinai - not the children Ishmael son of Hagar.

So this is not Paul claiming that Moses and Elijah who stand "with Christ" in Matthew 17 - in glory-- are standing in opposition to Christ, opposition to Grace, opposition to the Gospel.

Gal 4
For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—

Paul argues that in rejecting the Messiah -- The non-Christian Jews (as well as Christian Jews that choose to "make stuff up" place tradition above the Bible) -- and by symbol - Jerusalem as their capital - stand in opposition to the Gospel - as a counterfeit to it - just as Hagar and Ishmael represented a counterfeit to the promise - that was to come through Sarah's son Isaac.
 
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Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)

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Interesting traditions... some good... some not so much.

I prefer sola scriptura testing of all doctrine

Mark 7:
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
 
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BobRyan

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Reading the posts is important


The unit of TEN having "honor your father and mother which is the FIRST commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 according to Paul. (And of course we do not view Paul and John to be at war with each other).

John says Jesus' teaching was to "KEEP My Commandments" in John 14:15 as known even before the cross.

Paul tells us in Hebrews 8 that it is Jesus speaking His commandments at Sinai in Hebrews 8:6-12

No wonder Jesus said "keep the Commandments" in Matt 19 and then proceed to quote exclusively from the "Law of Moses" regarding man's-duty-to-man just as Paul does in Romans 13.

And this speaks to the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-34 where the "LAW of God is written on heart and mind" - is that Law known to Jeremiah and his readers.

Yes He did.

Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. (How many sets of commandments?)

Matt 19 Jesus said "KEEP the Commandments" and is asked "which ones?" - and then proceeds to quote exclusively from the Law of Moses .. from "The TEN" and from Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" that is specific to those He selected from the TEN in Matt 19.

It is nice we can agree on something. That does not happen very often.
 
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BABerean2

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Interesting traditions... some good... some not so much.

I prefer sola scriptura testing of all doctrine

Mark 7:
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”


Do you understand the fact that the Old Covenant was still in place until the moment Christ died at Calvary?


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Do you understand the fact that the Old Covenant was still in place until the moment Christ died at Calvary? Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Do you know what laws made up the old covenant? If so what laws made up the old covenant and what is now obsolete and what is now not obsolete in the new covenant? It is true that the new covenant is not the same as the old covenant so how has it now changed? Hint: The answer to these questions is written in Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27; Hebrews 10:1-22 and Exodus 20:4 and no the old covenant was not just the God's 10 commandments that Paul calls holy, just and good *Romans 7:12 that in the new covenant has the same role it always had and that is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). I know you will try and avoid answering these questions as you have done in the past and you do not have to if you do not want to. Perhaps you can pray about it.
 
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BABerean2

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and no the old covenant was not just the God's 10 commandments that Paul calls holy,


Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.


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LoveGodsWord

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Exo 34:28 And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.
.

Arrr just as I thought you do not know what laws made up the old covenant do you. Let me ask you again, Do you know what laws made up the old covenant? You quoted Exodus 34:28 and yes the 10 commandments were included in the old covenant but were they the only laws included in the old covenant?

If not what other laws made up the old covenant and what is now obsolete in the new covenant? It is true that the new covenant is not the same as the old covenant so how has it now changed? What has the Mosaic book of the law have to do with the old covenant *Exodus 24:7?

(Hint: The answer to these questions is written in Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27; Hebrews 10:1-22 and Exodus 20:4)

No the old covenant was not just the God's 10 commandments
that Paul calls holy, just and good *Romans 7:12 that in the new covenant has the same role it always had and that is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11). Look forward to your response.

Now you keep trying to avoid answering the above questions. Is there any reason for that?
 
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BABerean2

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Now you keep trying to avoid answering the above questions. Is there any reason for that?

Exodus 34:28 says the ten commandments written on stone are the Sinai Covenant.

Deuteronomy 5:3 says the Sinai Covenant was not given at an earlier time.

In Galatians 3:19 Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

In Hebrews 8:13 the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

Is there some reason you cannot accept what the Bible says in the passages above?

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LoveGodsWord

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Exodus 34:28 says the ten commandments written on stone are the Sinai Covenant.

Deuteronomy 5:3 says the Sinai Covenant was not given at an earlier time.

In Galatians 3:19 Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

In Hebrews 8:13 the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

Is there some reason you cannot accept what the Bible says in the passages above?

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Ok sooo how does that answer any of the questions asked of you in the post you are quoting from? It doesn't. If you do not know the answers to the questions being asked of you just say so. I am happy to answer them for you from the scriptures. Your teachings of lawlessness (meaning without law) in the new covenant is not biblical because if you have no law you have no knowledge of what sin is. Paul makes it very clear that the role of God's 10 commandments in the new covenant is to give us a knowledge of what sin is in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 as does John in 1 John 3:4 and James says if we brake anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. So your interpretation of what you believe the old and new covenants are is in contradiction to the scriptures. Let me ask you again, Do you know what laws made up the old covenant? You quoted Exodus 34:28 and yes the 10 commandments were included in the old covenant but were they the only laws included in the old covenant? If not what other laws made up the old covenant and what is now obsolete in the new covenant? It is true that the new covenant is not the same as the old covenant so how has it now changed? What has the Mosaic book of the law have to do with the old covenant *Exodus 24:7? (Hint: The answer to these questions is written in Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27; Hebrews 10:1-22 and Exodus 20:4). Now you keep trying to avoid answering the above questions. Do you want to have another try? I am happy to answer them for you if you do not want to.

Hope this is helpful
 
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BABerean2

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Your teachings of lawlessness (meaning without law) in the new covenant is not biblical because if you have no law you have no knowledge of what sin is.

If you think I am teaching lawlessness, you are ignoring the following which comes from the Bible.


Do you follow the Commandments of Christ, or do you have no standard?



Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. (How many sets of commandments?)


Are we without any law (antinomian) after we come into the New Covenant? After you are saved, is it OK to live like hell? Should there be a change in your life, or will your behavior still be rotten? If someone says they are under “Grace”, is that a license to do as they please?


1Co 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

1Co 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (Holy Spirit=Master Teacher)


What is the standard of conduct revealed below by Christ?


Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second is like it: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

(What does this standard look like in real life? How do you want to be treated by others?)


Are the commandments of Christ a higher standard of conduct?


Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'

Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Is it OK to go online and view inappropriate contentography?) Matt. 7:21-23 ?



New Covenant Commandments: How do we treat our brother?



1Jn_2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.


1Jn_2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.


1Jn_2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.


1Jn_3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


1Jn_3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.


1Jn_3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.


1Jn_3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.


1Jn_3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


1Jn_4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?


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