Hebrews 11 ~ The FAITH Chapter ~

The Narrow Way

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Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

I love this chapter...it's one verse after another, one Patriarch after another, that shows us that TRUE FAITH is not just an INTELLECTUAL belief. TRUE FAITH translates into righteous acts, obedience and LIVING FAITH. That is the kind of FAITH that will carry us through the hard days coming to faithful Christians.
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anna ~ grace

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I have never actually seen a very clear, black and white passage of Scripture which describes “dead faith” vs. “living faith”. There’s just faith, faith without works, works, and Mosaic Law. Those are basically all that gets described.

I really do think that the idea that “living / saving faith naturally produces works whereas dead or false faith doesn’t” was an invention of men like Charles Wesley, seeking to understand as a Protestant Christian what was meant by “faith alone” and what role, if any, works as a Christian played in our salvation. He seemed to conclude that works were evidence of “true, saving faith”, but did not claim that works justified us before God, or were a part of our salvation.

So, frankly, this would put such theology at odds with everyone who believed and taught prior to the development of various theologies seeking to under what was meant by “faith alone”, assuming that faith alone is what saves us, apart from anything we do or fail to do.
 
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This is from another thread I started.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith:


The 1st Side of the Coin of Faith:

Faith starts off as a belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (John 3:16). We are first saved by God's grace through faith without the deeds of the law or works ALONE (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved initially and foundationally by God's grace and mercy like the receiving of a gift. We believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). We call upon the name of the Lord seeking forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). We receive or invite Christ into our life (John 1:12, Revelation 3:20). If a believer stumbles into sin on rare occasion, they do not do a good work to redeem that sin; But they go to God's grace by confessing their sins to Jesus Christ in order to be forgiven of it (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Hebrews 4:16). This is all a part of how we are saved by God's grace through faith. No man can save themselves by Works Alone without God's grace. Many people who believe in God, and yet they have not accepted Jesus as their Savior think that God will outweigh their good deeds over their bad deeds. Salvation does not work like that. For they do not realize that their bad deeds will condemn them. They need to have their past slate of sins wiped out. This is where God's grace through faith in Jesus comes in.

But faith does not end with being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

The journey of faith continues with...​

The 2nd Side of the Coin of Faith:

#1. Faith manifests itself with the “work of faith” mentioned by the apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Many Christians today seem to separate works from faith in a way that goes beyond how James describes them. Yet, the apostle Paul mentions that there is a “work of faith.” The Bible talks about the “work of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 15:58) (1 Corinthians 16:10), and I imagine if I asked your average Christian if the “work” within the “work of the Lord” is separate from “the Lord,” they most likely would say they are not separated. But when it comes to the “work of faith,” they will say that works and faith are separate things (Which in my view is not being consistent or honest with oneself).

#2. The word “faithful” is also mentioned 54 times in the New Testament King James Bible. The dictionary defines faithful as:

Faithful:
(adjective):

1. true to one's word, promises, vows, etc.
2. steady in allegiance or affection; loyal; constant: faithful friends.
3. reliable, trusted, or believed.
4. strict or thorough in the performance of duty: a faithful worker.
Source:

Definition of faithful | Dictionary.com

This definition is supported by the context in many verses in the Bible. It does not take a detective to figure out that the word “faithful” derives from the word “faith.” They are related and connected to each other. A person is loyal (or faithful) to their master based on their faith in him in what he says. For example: 2 Thessalonians 3:3 says, “But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.” So the Lord is said to be faithful in this verse. How is the Lord faithful? Is it by a belief alone? No. The Lord is faithful to strengthening us (or in establishing us) to keep us from evil. The Lord does something when He is faithful. Revelation 2:10 says to a particular church, “be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” Many Christians have tried to come up with tricky ways to not apply this verse to their own life. I believe they do not accept what this verse plainly says because it contradicts their “Belief Alone” teaching.

#3. Romans 10:17. It says,

“So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.”
(Romans 10:17).
How do we get our faith? According to Romans 10:17, we get our faith by hearing the Word of God. I believe that the “Word of God” can refer to either Jesus, and or the Bible (depending on the context) (Note: See this thread here to see the connection in Scripture between the Living Word and the Bible). Anyways, in this particular instance in Romans 10:17: I believe the “Word of God” refers to the words of Jesus (which are found in the Holy Bible). We must receive the words of Jesus because if we do not, His words will judge us on the last day (See: John 12:48). This would also include the words of His apostles, as well. For Jesus says, “He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Matthew 10:40). So faith is basically everything in my New Testament because it gives us an account of the words of Jesus and His followers. We get our faith by believing and obeying what Jesus and His apostles said. Faith is everything in your New Testament, and faith is not just a belief alone in Jesus.

#4. Hebrews 11.
Hebrews 11 gives us an account of what faith does. “By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;...” (Hebrews 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17). “By faith Moses, ... refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;” (Hebrews 11:24-25). So by faith, the great men of God obeyed God and or put forth holy actions (or the “work of faith”). So in Hebrews 11, the word “faith” is used to represent something a believer does. This faith also rejects sin in one's life, for Moses suffered with the affliction of God's people rather than enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season.

#5. Peter failed to continue to walk on the water (Which is a work of God).
What was the reason why Peter later failed to continue to walk on the water? Jesus said, “O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” (Matthew 14:31). This again proves that the work of God that can operate in our life is tied to our faith. For in Ephesians 2:9 it refers to Man Directed Works ALONE Salvationism (without God's grace) because it is the kind of work that a man would boast in himself by doing it. But Ephesians 2:10 talks about an entirely different kind of work. It is the work of God done through the believer. These are the works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do. They are the works of God done through us. For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5). For it is God who works in us to do of His good will and pleasure (Philippians 2:13). So any good we do, all praise, glory, thanks, and honor is given to our Lord Jesus Christ and or to the glorious Trinity (or Godhead).

#6. Paul also mentions that there is an “obedience to the faith" (or obedience of faith) at the beginning and end of the book of Romans (See: Romans 1:5, Romans 16:26). Romans 6 says,

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16).
So we have to have obedience unto righteousness. For Romans 6 also says, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22). So our obedience unto righteousness is being servants of God and having fruit unto holiness with having the end of everlasting life. This is all a part of the obedience to the faith. There is no such thing as the disobedience of the faith. For Ephesians 5 says, “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6).

#7. John 3:36 (The Greek word “apeitheō” used in John 3:36 for the English words: “believeth not” (KJB) is translated as “obey not” or “disobedient” in other English bible verses. For example: 1 Peter 3:1, and 1 Peter 3:20 translates apeitheō as “obey not” or “disobedient” and it is used context to being disobedient in regards to one’s righteous conduct (Whereas John 3:36 is translated as believeth not” in the King James Bible). Some translations render the KJB’s John 3:36 “believeth not" as “obey not” in other Translations (NLT, ESV, BLB, NASB, ASV, EXB, GNT). In other words, sometimes the words “believeth not” is synonymous with “obey not” (depending on the context). In fact, you can check this Greek word for yourself and it's usage here at BlueLetterBible.

#8. Works makes a person’s faith perfect (James 2:22).

This connects in with 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Doctrine and instruction in righteousness is profitable so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works. Anyways, the point here is that your faith is perfected by works. Thus, this shows us that there is a symbiotic relationship between faith and works that cannot be separated.

#9. 2 Corinthians 5:7 says: “We walk by faith.” So faith is not something whereby you do nothing but believe. We are to walk by faith. Walking is an action.

#10. Examine whether you be in the faith - 2 Corinthians 13:5. How do we do this? Well, this is by proving Christ is in you. How can we show that we know the Lord? By keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). However, the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commands is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4). So keeping His commands is tied to knowing the Lord, and knowing the Lord is in us is a part of our examination of whether we are in the faith or not (2 Corinthians 13:5).

#11. Galatians 5:6 says, “faith which worketh by love.”
Paul says in context within Galatians:

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Galatians 5:13-14).
So faith works by love. It works in love by loving one another. Faith is not just a belief alone.

#12. Philippians 2:17 talks about “the service of your faith.” Service is a form of work. So our faith will have service or work attached. So there is no faith that is alone or remains as a belief alone. True faith will have it's service.

#13. 2 Thessalonians 3:2 says, “And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.” This is suggesting that faith is not a belief alone whereby we can live wickedly. For it says that we may be delivered from wicked men for (because) all men have not faith. So the opposite of wickedness is holiness. So this verse is implying indirectly that our good and moral conduct is tied to the faith.

#14. 1 Timothy 5:8 says, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” An infidel is an unbeliever. If faith is exclusively a belief alone then how can a person deny the faith by their misconduct?

#15. 1 Timothy 6:12 says, “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,” We have to FIGHT the good fight of faith in order to lay hold on eternal life. So faith is something we have to fight for and it is not a belief alone.

#16. 2 Timothy 3:1-9 describes those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. They are lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. These types are said to be reprobate concerning the faith (See: 2 Timothy 3:8). So faith is not a belief alone in Jesus whereby one’s conduct is not in line with true godliness.

#17. James 2:1 says, “My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.” This means faith is not a belief alone in Jesus, but it also includes one’s actions in not neglecting to love the poor brethren while one shows favor to the rich brethren.

#18. Jude says:

“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Jude 1:3-4).
Verse 3 says that we are to contend for the faith and verse 4 says there are certain ungodly men who turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness. Meaning, they are teaching that a person can sin and still be saved by God’s grace. But we are told to contend for the faith.


#19. Revelation 13:10 says,

“Anyone who is destined for prison will be taken to prison.
Anyone destined to die by the sword will die by the sword.
This means that God’s holy people must endure
persecution patiently and remain faithful.”
(Revelation 13:10) (NLT).

“He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity:
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.”
(Revelation 13:10 (KJB).
In other words, this is saying that believers can sometimes go to prison and or be killed as a part of the faith (or in being faithful, i.e. the faith).

#20. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith save anyone?

#21. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). The same word “justified" is used for both faith and works. Most Christians will not argue against how we are justified by faith in regards to salvation. But this same word “justified" is used in reference for works, too.

#22. James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18).
For James says,

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith,
and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works,
and I will shew thee my faith by my works.”
(James 2:18).
James appears to criticize the person who has faith without works by saying show me your faith without works, and I will show my faith by my works. This means faith and works are tied together because works is how one shows their faith.
So in conclusion:

Faith is like a coin that has two sides to it. The first side of the coin of faith is trusting or believing in God's grace and seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus and believing the gospel, and the second side (or other side) of the coin of faith is the “work of faith.” (that is a part of the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit that helps us to live a holy life).

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14).

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).
 
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Sunshinee777

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Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

I love this chapter...it's one verse after another, one Patriarch after another, that shows us that TRUE FAITH is not just an INTELLECTUAL belief. TRUE FAITH translates into righteous acts, obedience and LIVING FAITH. That is the kind of FAITH that will carry us through the hard days coming to faithful Christians.
View attachment 303730

Amen and Hallelujah!
I love those flowers.
 
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anna ~ grace

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I don’t agree with you, @Bible Highlighter , but I do definitely see how your developing ideas about faith and salvation reflect the struggles of the Reformers to figure out what they meant by Sola Fide, and the continued struggle for Protestant Christians to puzzle out what is meant by “sanctification”, what to do with someone who has faith yet lives poorly, etc. I see this typified, in part, in the “free grace vs. Lordship salvation” debates.

It’s an interesting topic, and I have often enjoyed reading your thoughts on this topic. I think the struggle to figure out who, exactly, gets Soteriology right and in what ways is crucial, and continues to be something that many souls wrestle with.
 
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I don’t agree with you, @Bible Highlighter , but I do definitely see how your developing ideas about faith and salvation reflect the struggles of the Reformers to figure out what they meant by Sola Fide, and the continued struggle for Protestant Christians to puzzle out what is meant by “sanctification”, what to do with someone who has faith yet lives poorly, etc. I see this typified, in part, in the “free grace vs. Lordship salvation” debates.

It’s an interesting topic, and I have often enjoyed reading your thoughts on this topic. I think the struggle to figure out who, exactly, gets Soteriology right and in what ways is crucial, and continues to be something that many souls wrestle with.

Can faith be at times a belief alone like say trusting in Jesus as one’s Savior?
Do we not have faith when we believe the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?
Is that not a belief alone type version of faith?
But what is interesting is there is this other kind of faith mentioned in the Bible, too.
It is the kind of faith that is tied with one’s actions.
Paul says there is the “work of faith.” (1 Thessalonians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:11).
If I said there is a work of the Lord is that not tied to the Lord?
Can we separate the Lord from the work?
Yet, this is what people try to do with the “work of faith.”
How do you get faith?
Well, my Bible tells me faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
So it’s the words of Jesus as found in the Bible. I need to trust Jesus, and I need to obey Him.
This is all a part of the faith. My trust and obedience to God’s Word (the Bible) is the faith.
 
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The Narrow Way

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This is from another thread I started.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith:


The 1st Side of the Coin of Faith:

Faith starts off as a belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (John 3:16). We are first saved by God's grace through faith without the deeds of the law or works ALONE (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved initially and foundationally by God's grace and mercy like the receiving of a gift. We believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). We call upon the name of the Lord seeking forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). We receive or invite Christ into our life (John 1:12, Revelation 3:20). If a believer stumbles into sin on rare occasion, they do not do a good work to redeem that sin; But they go to God's grace by confessing their sins to Jesus Christ in order to be forgiven of it (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Hebrews 4:16). This is all a part of how we are saved by God's grace through faith. No man can save themselves by Works Alone without God's grace. Many people who believe in God, and yet they have not accepted Jesus as their Savior think that God will outweigh their good deeds over their bad deeds. Salvation does not work like that. For they do not realize that their bad deeds will condemn them. They need to have their past slate of sins wiped out. This is where God's grace through faith in Jesus comes in.

But faith does not end with being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

The journey of faith continues with...​

The 2nd Side of the Coin of Faith:

#1. Faith manifests itself with the “work of faith” mentioned by the apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Many Christians today seem to separate works from faith in a way that goes beyond how James describes them. Yet, the apostle Paul mentions that there is a “work of faith.” The Bible talks about the “work of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 15:58) (1 Corinthians 16:10), and I imagine if I asked your average Christian if the “work” within the “work of the Lord” is separate from “the Lord,” they most likely would say they are not separated. But when it comes to the “work of faith,” they will say that works and faith are separate things (Which in my view is not being consistent or honest with oneself).

#2. The word “faithful” is also mentioned 54 times in the New Testament King James Bible. The dictionary defines faithful as:

Faithful:
(adjective):

1. true to one's word, promises, vows, etc.
2. steady in allegiance or affection; loyal; constant: faithful friends.
3. reliable, trusted, or believed.
4. strict or thorough in the performance of duty: a faithful worker.
Source:

Definition of faithful | Dictionary.com

This definition is supported by the context in many verses in the Bible. It does not take a detective to figure out that the word “faithful” derives from the word “faith.” They are related and connected to each other. A person is loyal (or faithful) to their master based on their faith in him in what he says. For example: 2 Thessalonians 3:3 says, “But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.” So the Lord is said to be faithful in this verse. How is the Lord faithful? Is it by a belief alone? No. The Lord is faithful to strengthening us (or in establishing us) to keep us from evil. The Lord does something when He is faithful. Revelation 2:10 says to a particular church, “be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” Many Christians have tried to come up with tricky ways to not apply this verse to their own life. I believe they do not accept what this verse plainly says because it contradicts their “Belief Alone” teaching.

#3. Romans 10:17. It says,

“So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.”
(Romans 10:17).
How do we get our faith? According to Romans 10:17, we get our faith by hearing the Word of God. I believe that the “Word of God” can refer to either Jesus, and or the Bible (depending on the context) (Note: See this thread here to see the connection in Scripture between the Living Word and the Bible). Anyways, in this particular instance in Romans 10:17: I believe the “Word of God” refers to the words of Jesus (which are found in the Holy Bible). We must receive the words of Jesus because if we do not, His words will judge us on the last day (See: John 12:48). This would also include the words of His apostles, as well. For Jesus says, “He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Matthew 10:40). So faith is basically everything in my New Testament because it gives us an account of the words of Jesus and His followers. We get our faith by believing and obeying what Jesus and His apostles said. Faith is everything in your New Testament, and faith is not just a belief alone in Jesus.

#4. Hebrews 11.
Hebrews 11 gives us an account of what faith does. “By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;...” (Hebrews 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17). “By faith Moses, ... refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;” (Hebrews 11:24-25). So by faith, the great men of God obeyed God and or put forth holy actions (or the “work of faith”). So in Hebrews 11, the word “faith” is used to represent something a believer does. This faith also rejects sin in one's life, for Moses suffered with the affliction of God's people rather than enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season.

#5. Peter failed to continue to walk on the water (Which is a work of God).
What was the reason why Peter later failed to continue to walk on the water? Jesus said, “O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” (Matthew 14:31). This again proves that the work of God that can operate in our life is tied to our faith. For in Ephesians 2:9 it refers to Man Directed Works ALONE Salvationism (without God's grace) because it is the kind of work that a man would boast in himself by doing it. But Ephesians 2:10 talks about an entirely different kind of work. It is the work of God done through the believer. These are the works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do. They are the works of God done through us. For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5). For it is God who works in us to do of His good will and pleasure (Philippians 2:13). So any good we do, all praise, glory, thanks, and honor is given to our Lord Jesus Christ and or to the glorious Trinity (or Godhead).

#6. Paul also mentions that there is an “obedience to the faith" (or obedience of faith) at the beginning and end of the book of Romans (See: Romans 1:5, Romans 16:26). Romans 6 says,

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16).
So we have to have obedience unto righteousness. For Romans 6 also says, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22). So our obedience unto righteousness is being servants of God and having fruit unto holiness with having the end of everlasting life. This is all a part of the obedience to the faith. There is no such thing as the disobedience of the faith. For Ephesians 5 says, “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6).

#7. John 3:36 (The Greek word “apeitheō” used in John 3:36 for the English words: “believeth not” (KJB) is translated as “obey not” or “disobedient” in other English bible verses. For example: 1 Peter 3:1, and 1 Peter 3:20 translates apeitheō as “obey not” or “disobedient” and it is used context to being disobedient in regards to one’s righteous conduct (Whereas John 3:36 is translated as believeth not” in the King James Bible). Some translations render the KJB’s John 3:36 “believeth not" as “obey not” in other Translations (NLT, ESV, BLB, NASB, ASV, EXB, GNT). In other words, sometimes the words “believeth not” is synonymous with “obey not” (depending on the context). In fact, you can check this Greek word for yourself and it's usage here at BlueLetterBible.

#8. Works makes a person’s faith perfect (James 2:22).

This connects in with 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Doctrine and instruction in righteousness is profitable so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works. Anyways, the point here is that your faith is perfected by works. Thus, this shows us that there is a symbiotic relationship between faith and works that cannot be separated.

#9. 2 Corinthians 5:7 says: “We walk by faith.” So faith is not something whereby you do nothing but believe. We are to walk by faith. Walking is an action.

#10. Examine whether you be in the faith - 2 Corinthians 13:5. How do we do this? Well, this is by proving Christ is in you. How can we show that we know the Lord? By keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). However, the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commands is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4). So keeping His commands is tied to knowing the Lord, and knowing the Lord is in us is a part of our examination of whether we are in the faith or not (2 Corinthians 13:5).

#11. Galatians 5:6 says, “faith which worketh by love.”
Paul says in context within Galatians:

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Galatians 5:13-14).
So faith works by love. It works in love by loving one another. Faith is not just a belief alone.

#12. Philippians 2:17 talks about “the service of your faith.” Service is a form of work. So our faith will have service or work attached. So there is no faith that is alone or remains as a belief alone. True faith will have it's service.

#13. 2 Thessalonians 3:2 says, “And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.” This is suggesting that faith is not a belief alone whereby we can live wickedly. For it says that we may be delivered from wicked men for (because) all men have not faith. So the opposite of wickedness is holiness. So this verse is implying indirectly that our good and moral conduct is tied to the faith.

#14. 1 Timothy 5:8 says, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” An infidel is an unbeliever. If faith is exclusively a belief alone then how can a person deny the faith by their misconduct?

#15. 1 Timothy 6:12 says, “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,” We have to FIGHT the good fight of faith in order to lay hold on eternal life. So faith is something we have to fight for and it is not a belief alone.

#16. 2 Timothy 3:1-9 describes those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. They are lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. These types are said to be reprobate concerning the faith (See: 2 Timothy 3:8). So faith is not a belief alone in Jesus whereby one’s conduct is not in line with true godliness.

#17. James 2:1 says, “My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.” This means faith is not a belief alone in Jesus, but it also includes one’s actions in not neglecting to love the poor brethren while one shows favor to the rich brethren.

#18. Jude says:

“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Jude 1:3-4).
Verse 3 says that we are to contend for the faith and verse 4 says there are certain ungodly men who turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness. Meaning, they are teaching that a person can sin and still be saved by God’s grace. But we are told to contend for the faith.


#19. Revelation 13:10 says,

“Anyone who is destined for prison will be taken to prison.
Anyone destined to die by the sword will die by the sword.
This means that God’s holy people must endure
persecution patiently and remain faithful.”
(Revelation 13:10) (NLT).

“He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity:
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.”
(Revelation 13:10 (KJB).
In other words, this is saying that believers can sometimes go to prison and or be killed as a part of the faith (or in being faithful, i.e. the faith).

#20. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith save anyone?

#21. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). The same word “justified" is used for both faith and works. Most Christians will not argue against how we are justified by faith in regards to salvation. But this same word “justified" is used in reference for works, too.

#22. James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18).
For James says,

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith,
and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works,
and I will shew thee my faith by my works.”
(James 2:18).
James appears to criticize the person who has faith without works by saying show me your faith without works, and I will show my faith by my works. This means faith and works are tied together because works is how one shows their faith.​
So in conclusion:

Faith is like a coin that has two sides to it. The first side of the coin of faith is trusting or believing in God's grace and seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus and believing the gospel, and the second side (or other side) of the coin of faith is the “work of faith.” (that is a part of the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit that helps us to live a holy life).

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14).

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).
Thank you for your post....very good :)
 
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anna ~ grace

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Can faith be at times a belief alone like say trusting in Jesus as one’s Savior?
Do we not have faith when we believe the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?
Is that not a belief alone type version of faith?
But what is interesting is there is this other kind of faith mentioned in the Bible, too.
It is the kind of faith that is tied with one’s actions.
Paul says there is the “work of faith.”
If I said there is a work of the Lord is that not tied to the Lord?
Can we separate the Lord from the work?
Yet, this is what people try to do with the “work of faith.”
How do you get faith?
Well, my Bible tells me faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
So it’s the words of Jesus as found in the Bible. I need to trust Jesus, and I need to obey Him.
This is all a part of the faith. My trust and obedience to God’s Word is the faith.
I think the model of describing “faith plus works” as a sub-category of faith goes back to this development of Soteriology within Protestantism; how does one incorporate or understand the works a Christian can do in light of the idea of Sola Fide.

Whereas Catholic and Orthodox, and other, Christians would see faith as trust and as belief, and works as obeying the One in whom you trust, and seeing them as distinct, yet both vital. I think your idea, though seeks to urge Christians to be holy, pure, and do good works in Christ, and it’s not wrong to urge Christians to be such.
 
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Thank you for your post....very good :)
Oh my....I have to take back what I said...I thought the post was very good but your signature at the bottom undid it all for me. I believe very much in the Sabbath, and that it is just as binding TODAY as it was the day God wrote the 10 Commandments in stone. I'm sorry.
 
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I think the model of describing “faith plus works” as a sub-category of faith goes back to this development of Soteriology within Protestantism; how does one incorporate or understand the works a Christian can do in light of the idea of Sola Fide.

Well, I prefer not to refer to myself as a Protestant (even though I do not agree with the many teachings in the Catholic Church). I just believe the Bible. Protestants tend to look at any kind of work as being bad if one is relating it to salvation in any way. But I see the Bible describe to me two different kinds of faith that I can express. One kind of faith is a trust in the Lord (a belief), and the other is the work of faith or the obedience of the faith (i.e. being faithful). I am not sure this fits in with how many Protestants believe Sola Fide. In fact, I prefer not to use the term Sola Fide because it is a term attached to them and it can be understood wrongfully.

You said:
Whereas Catholic and Orthodox, and other, Christians would see faith as trust and as belief, and works as obeying the One in whom you trust, and seeing them as distinct, yet both vital. I think your idea, though seeks to urge Christians to be holy, pure, and do good works in Christ, and it’s not wrong to urge Christians to be such.

Believing and doing are distinct things, but they are both a part of the faith according to the Bible.
Whatever God tells me in His Holy Word (the Bible) takes trust and faith on my part to not only believe it, but in other other cases by acting upon what His Word says (like obeying His commands like God calling us to action to love others and God).
 
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I have never actually seen a very clear, black and white passage of Scripture which describes “dead faith” vs. “living faith”. There’s just faith, faith without works, works, and Mosaic Law. Those are basically all that gets described.

I really do think that the idea that “living / saving faith naturally produces works whereas dead or false faith doesn’t” was an invention of men like Charles Wesley, seeking to understand as a Protestant Christian what was meant by “faith alone” and what role, if any, works as a Christian played in our salvation. He seemed to conclude that works were evidence of “true, saving faith”, but did not claim that works justified us before God, or were a part of our salvation.

So, frankly, this would put such theology at odds with everyone who believed and taught prior to the development of various theologies seeking to under what was meant by “faith alone”, assuming that faith alone is what saves us, apart from anything we do or fail to do.

Faith without works is DEAD. God gives us eternal life through the living faith He gives. It's living faith because He gives it. Every good and perfect gift is from above.

The wages of sin is death, but the gift freely given is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

As you know, salvation requires faith in Christ which we are not born with. So eternal life can only be free if we have faith given to us. And God only gives perfect gifts. He doesn't hand out dead faith.
 
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Oh my....I have to take back what I said...I thought the post was very good but your signature at the bottom undid it all for me. I believe very much in the Sabbath, and that it is just as binding TODAY as it was the day God wrote the 10 Commandments in stone. I'm sorry.

First, there are no direct Sabbath commands given to us believers in the pages of the New Testament. In other words, there is no command by Jesus or the apostle Paul saying something like this: “Thou shalt keep the Sabbath.” Also, the breaking of the Sabbath is not listed among the list of many various sins by the apostles Paul, and the apostle John (See: Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 21:8, etc.). For example: When Paul says, that murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God, he does not mention anything about Sabbath day breakers.

Second, Colossians 2:14-17, and Romans 14:5 indicate to us that the Sabbath day command (not the calendar day) is no longer.

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” (Colossians 2:16).

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” (Romans 14:5).​

Three, Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says that the Gentile believers do not have to keep the Law of Moses and to circumcise as a part of salvation. The apostles only stressed in keeping such laws as: Abstaining from pollutions of idols, from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:20). If there was ever a time to stress the importance of keeping the Sabbath, this would have been the time to do it (Seeing the Sabbath is more a ceremonial performance based law like circumcision). Paul said in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Meaning, if we go back to the Old Law, the Lord will not be of any benefit to us. Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says this.

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).​

The Saturday Sabbath is clearly a part of the Old Testament Law of Moses, and it is not a command that is clearly given to us by our Lord Jesus Christ and or by His apostles.


Side Note:

Accounts in the New Testament of people keeping the Sabbath does not equate with how it is a command. The New Covenant began with Christ's death upon the cross, and it took time for His followers to figure out that we are not under the Law of Moses. We are under the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. For the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (See: John 1:17). Hebrews 7:12 also says that the Law has changed, as well.
 
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First, there are no direct Sabbath commands given to us believers in the pages of the New Testament. In other words, there is no command by Jesus or the apostle Paul saying something like this: “Thou shalt keep the Sabbath.” Also, the breaking of the Sabbath is not listed among the list of many various sins by the apostles Paul, and the apostle John (See: Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 21:8, etc.). For example: When Paul says, that murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God, he does not mention anything about Sabbath day breakers.

Second, Colossians 2:14-17, and Romans 14:5 indicate to us that the Sabbath day is no longer.

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:” (Colossians 2:16).

“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” (Romans 14:5).​

Three, Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24 says that the Gentile believers do not have to keep the Law of Moses and to circumcise as a part of salvation. The apostles only stressed in keeping such laws as: Abstaining from pollutions of idols, from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:20). If there was ever a time to stress the importance of keeping the Sabbath, this would have been the time to do it (Seeing the Sabbath is more a ceremonial performance based law like circumcision). Paul said in Galatians 5:2 that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Meaning, if we go back to the Old Law, the Lord will not be of any benefit to us. Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says this.

“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 13:39).​

The Saturday Sabbath is clearly a part of the Old Testament Law of Moses, and it is not a command that is clearly given to us by our Lord Jesus Christ and or by His apostles.


Side Note:

People keeping the Sabbath does not equate with how it is a command. The New Covenant began with Christ's death upon the cross, and it took time for His followers to figure out that we are not under the Law of Moses. We are under the commands that come from Jesus and His followers. For the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ (See: John 1:17). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
I don't want to derail this thread...if you would like to discuss the Sabbath, feel free to start another thread.
 
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I don't want to derail this thread...if you would like to discuss the Sabbath, feel free to start another thread.

I understand.
My apologies for the unintentional derail (even though I stand behind what I said with Scripture).
 
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anna ~ grace

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Well, I prefer not to refer to myself as a Protestant (even though I do not agree with the many teachings in the Catholic Church). I just believe the Bible. Protestants tend to look at any kind of work as being bad if one is relating it to salvation in any way. But I see the Bible describe to me two different kinds of faith that I can express. One kind of faith is a trust in the Lord (a belief), and the other is the work of faith or the obedience of the faith (i.e. being faithful). I am not sure this fits in with how many Protestants believe Sola Fide. In fact, I prefer not to use the term Sola Fide because it is a term attached to them and it can be understood wrongfully.



Believing and doing are distinct things, but they are both a part of the faith according to the Bible.
Whatever God tells me in His Holy Word (the Bible) takes trust and faith on my part to not only believe it, but in other other cases by acting upon what His Word says (like obeying His commands like God calling us to action to love others and God).
I hear you on eschewing labels. I think a lot of folks are coming to where you’re at; what is true? Did the Reformers get salvation right? Did they properly understand what they read? If not, what is true? How are we actually justified? Good questions to ask, and it has been really cool and rewarding watch you type and grow and think and work this stuff out. Keep it up! Did you ever find a fellowship / church to go to?
 
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I hear you on eschewing labels.

I just do not want to be associated with Protestants because many of them believe that Christians can sin and still be saved on some level or that all future sin is paid for (Which basically regulates holy living to being a sham or a mirage). Believers must confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7).

You said:
I think a lot of folks are coming to where you’re at; what is true?

I wish that were so but Jesus says narrow is the way and few be there that find it.
I believe we are living in the last days as per 2 Timothy 3:1-9.

You said:
Did the Reformers get salvation right? Did they properly understand what they read?

There are two major branches of Reformers. Protestant Non-Calvinists (Martin Luther) and Protestant Calvinists (John Calvin). Did they get salvation correct? Well, again if they are the kind of Protestant churches that say that works of no kind saves (after we are saved by God’s grace), then they are going against what the Bible teaches on salvation. Also, Calvinists take salvation to a whole another level by saying that God forces salvation upon people and keeps it from others. So this version of salvation is definitely not in the Bible, either.

If not, what is true?

“Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” (John 17:17).

You said:
How are we actually justified?

James says we are justified by faith and works in James 2:24 but he is using this in context to belief and actions that flow out of one’s faith. Other parts of Scripture describe to us how faith can be both a belief, and how faith can be something that involves action like the word “faithful.”

You said:
Good questions to ask, and it has been really cool and rewarding watch you type and grow and think and work this stuff out. Keep it up!

May the Lord Jesus get all the glory for any truth I learn in His Word.

You said:
Did you ever find a fellowship / church to go to?

I see church not as an organization that involves a big building with people having man made titles, and programs, but I see church as a body of believers who are my intimate friends in the Lord whereby we can fellowship in His Word, pray, and worship the Lord to His glory. I do have a few friends with whom I fellowship with on occasion.
 
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anna ~ grace

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I see church not as an organization that involves a big building with people having man made titles, and programs, but I see church as a body of believers who are my intimate friends in the Lord whereby we can fellowship in His Word, pray, and worship the Lord to His glory. I do have a few friends with whom I fellowship with on occasion.

I’m glad you have fellow Christians to fellowship and hang out with. That’s an incredible blessing, and it’s priceless. God bless you, Bible Highlighter, and thank you for everything you’ve taken the time to share and break down.
 
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