Creationists: How exactly did the fall of man change biological organisms?

Ophiolite · Jul 28, 2021

renniks said:
I don't buy it. Progress is relative, and often unseen.
It surely doesn't happen because of only a handful of people.

You need to spend a couple of years making a serious study of history. I'm not sure how you arrived at your weird notion of what drives progress, but it is not supported by reality.

Phred said:
At various points in history usually one man did something that changed everything. There might have been others working on something like it. They did it first, or loudest or at the perfect time. They were the catalyst for change.

Exactly. Even when (as it most often the case) the progress is made by a team, that team is driven by the ideas and the enthusiasm of an individual.

Subduction Zone · Jul 28, 2021

renniks said:
Though out history the vast majority of humanity has worshiped either nature god's or the God who created nature.

And that rates a big "So what?" And no, you do not get to assume your God. If a God exists the burden of proof is upon the person claiming that one exists.

FrumiousBandersnatch · Jul 29, 2021

Phred said:
Progress ALWAYS happens because of only a handful of people. Rosa Parks refuses to change seats. Henry Ford comes up with a better way to manufacture cars. Thomas Edison. Charles Darwin. Albert Einstein. Orville and Wilbur Wright.

At various points in history usually one man did something that changed everything. There might have been others working on something like it. They did it first, or loudest or at the perfect time. They were the catalyst for change.

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” George Bernard Shaw

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." Robert Heinlein

Strathos · Aug 1, 2021

pitabread said:
The fall of man is often cited by creationists are the point which death entered the world, organisms began changing, etc.

My question is how did the fall specifically affect biological organisms causing them to change?

Was this change supernatural in nature? Were their deliberate, creative decisions being made in this process? Were new organisms being created? Or did it just involve modifying existing organisms?

Or did the fall simply trigger biological evolution in organisms? E.g. reproducing and mutating and diversifying from their originally created states?

Or was it some combination of factors?

Creationists: How exactly did the fall do things with respect to biology?

Well, it caused snakes to lose their legs. Interestingly enough, the evolutionary biology and the fossil record confirm that snakes did, indeed, once have legs.

Kylie · Aug 1, 2021

Strathos said:
Well, it caused snakes to lose their legs. Interestingly enough, the evolutionary biology and the fossil record confirm that snakes did, indeed, once have legs.

The fossil record indicates snakes lost their legs about 150-100 million years ago. That's long before Humans appear in the fossil record. Apparently, the effects of the Fall ricocheted backwards through time.

Or maybe you are just cherry picking the parts you want to believe, the parts that agree with your preconceived notions and you ignore the rest.

Strathos · Aug 1, 2021

Kylie said:
The fossil record indicates snakes lost their legs about 150-100 years ago. That's long before Humans appear in the fossil record.

Wow. That's like super-young-earth-creationism!

Kylie · Aug 1, 2021

Strathos said:
Wow. That's like super-young-earth-creationism!

lol, I left out the word "million." I've corrected it in my post.

Ophiolite · Aug 4, 2021

FrumiousBandersnatch said:
“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” George Bernard Shaw

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something." Robert Heinlein

I present the following as evidence that the foregoing is nonsense.

I am a lazy, late rising, thoroughly unreasonable man and yet I have contributed nothing to world progress!

Estrid · Aug 11, 2021

Strathos said:
Well, it caused snakes to lose their legs. Interestingly enough, the evolutionary biology and the fossil record confirm that snakes did, indeed, once have legs.

Boas and pythons of course have vestiges of the hind legs.

driewerf · Aug 17, 2021

renniks said:
93 percent of the world's population disagrees with you, and sees evidence for God.
So either you are wrong or they are. I know which one I find more convincing.

Your case would be convincing if these 93% would agree about which god they believe in. Or at least, how many gods there are. And those pretending to believe the same god, disagree about what exactly is and isn't part of any holy book. And if that book needs to be taken literally or not.

Estrid · Aug 17, 2021

Strathos said:
Well, it caused snakes to lose their legs. Interestingly enough, the evolutionary biology and the fossil record confirm that snakes did, indeed, once have legs.

Not all at once, and some snakes still have vestige of hind legs.

AND of course, snakes are highly successful, more so than lizards
(some of which have lost their legs) so being legless is hardly a punishment.

Estrid · Aug 17, 2021

driewerf said:
You case would be convincing if these 93% would agree about which god they believe in. Or at least, how many gods there are. And those pretending to believe the same god, disagree about what exactly is and isn't part of any holy book. And if that book needs to be taken literally or not.

But so many say they got divine help for their various and contradictory
One True true readings!

driewerf · Aug 17, 2021

renniks said:
So? They all believe in a supreme Being. You're just nitpicking. They all see evidence for God existing.

Or multiple supreme beings.

Estrid · Aug 17, 2021

Kylie said:
The fossil record indicates snakes lost their legs about 150-100 million years ago. That's long before Humans appear in the fossil record. Apparently, the effects of the Fall ricocheted backwards through time.

Or maybe you are just cherry picking the parts you want to believe, the parts that agree with your preconceived notions and you ignore the rest.

"I say falling
Falling changes everything"

Kylie · Aug 17, 2021

Estrid said:
"I say falling
Falling changes everything"

I don't see how this explains how the punishment for snakes could have taken place BEFORE the event they were being punished for.

Estrid · Aug 17, 2021

Kylie said:
I don't see how this explains how the punishment for snakes could have taken place BEFORE the event they were being punished for.

You'd have to ask Cyndi about that.

Or

Just ask the boy from Tupelo
He's the king and he outta know.

Kylie · Aug 17, 2021

Estrid said:
You'd have to ask Cyndi about that.

Or

Just ask the boy from Tupelo
He's the king and he outta know.

Gah, sorry. I thought your response was trying to explain it.

Estrid · Aug 20, 2021

Kylie said:
Gah, sorry. I thought your response was trying to explain it.

You will need a man to do the mansplainin'

tas8831 · Sep 7, 2021

renniks said:
93 percent of the world's population disagrees with you, and sees evidence for God.
So either you are wrong or they are. I know which one I find more convincing.

Is it your God they see? 1 billion Hindus might disagree. 530 million Buddhists.
1.8 billion Muslims (though many claim their God is the god of Abraham also, but they have a different prophet). Etc.
Argumentum ad populum is so... last year.

Creationists: How exactly did the fall of man change biological organisms?

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