Medieval Jewish theologians should not be our criterion for Truth. Christian theology, history, Scripture, and wisdom, should.
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Open Theism in Medieval Judaism
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I agree, which is why we should look at their specific exegesis of the text of scripture and see for ourselves whether it agrees with its plainest meaning.
Throughout the Bible, God changes His mind in response to human decisions. This is the basis of open theism.
If the future doesn't exist yet, then it is, by definition, unknowable. Asking if God infallibility foresees a non-existent future would be like asking if God can create a rock so big that even He can't lift it. It says nothing about the perfection of God.
Open theism, just like Calvinism, Molinism, Arminianism, provisionism, etc. is a legitimate interpretation of scripture, since it has nothing to do with the essentials of salvation.
"In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity."
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With all due respect, brother, I don’t think we absolutely need to be examining the theology of Talmudic rabbis to see if they’re true.
They also denied the deity, Messiah-ship, resurrection, and efficiency of Christ’s death to atone for and save us. They rejected the New Testament, and rejected any and every Church near to them as a source of spiritual authority and Truth.
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Alright, and I hear you. I’m just saying… simply because Medieval Jewish Rabbis believed or taught something, doesn’t mean we use that as a reason something could be true; quite the opposite.
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That's why it always has to be judged against scripture, which is the same for Christian theologians as well.
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Ok, just be careful with the Rabbinic Jewish stuff. I get your curiosity, and think that you have a bright, thoughtful mind. Just saying, not everything that everyone proposed or comes up with is True. As you seek theological truth and clarity, be curious, be cautious, be thoughtful, read up, ask questions, and put Christ first. Always. God be with you, Humble.
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Matthew 24:20 is another passage of scripture which proves that the future is not predetermined. There's no reason to "pray that your flight will not be in winter" if the future has already been decided.
Matthew 24:20
Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.
https://opentheism.org/verses
Matthew 24:20
Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath.
https://opentheism.org/verses
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If the future doesn't exist yet for whom? For God?
To say the future doesn't exist is to claim our viewpoint is the default, no?
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Bad logic. This too assumes our point of view is the default. Did you know that
God had Moses to 'stand in the gap' between him and Israel to keep God from destroying them? God has us to pray for anything he wants us to pray for; this doesn't mean he has not predetermined what will happen, but that he uses every means to bring it to pass, including our prayers.
If something has already happened, what is to keep us from praying concerning the outcome, as long as we don't know what the outcome is?
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Mark 13:32
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
The fact that Jesus doesn't know the day or hour of His return has nothing to say about His perfection as a divine being. Since the future doesn't exist yet, it is, by definition, unknowable.
One could say that Jesus voluntarily emptied Himself of foreknowledge by taking on human flesh, but wouldn't He at least remember the date of His return if that were the case?
Here is just one example from scripture, among many, of God reacting to human choices:
Genesis 22:12
“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” He said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
The day and the hour of Christ's return are not predetermined, but instead will come to pass at the appropriate season.
Acts 1:7
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
The due season will come once the Gospel has been preached to all peoples, giving them a chance of repentance before the Second Coming, but the exact date is yet to be determined.
Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
2 Peter 3
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...
Imagine how many embarrassments in Christian history would have been prevented if Christ's followers had, instead of making false predictions of Christ's return, recognized that no one knows the day nor the hour, not even the Son.
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
The fact that Jesus doesn't know the day or hour of His return has nothing to say about His perfection as a divine being. Since the future doesn't exist yet, it is, by definition, unknowable.
One could say that Jesus voluntarily emptied Himself of foreknowledge by taking on human flesh, but wouldn't He at least remember the date of His return if that were the case?
Here is just one example from scripture, among many, of God reacting to human choices:
Genesis 22:12
“Do not lay a hand on the boy,” He said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”
The day and the hour of Christ's return are not predetermined, but instead will come to pass at the appropriate season.
Acts 1:7
He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.
The due season will come once the Gospel has been preached to all peoples, giving them a chance of repentance before the Second Coming, but the exact date is yet to be determined.
Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.
2 Peter 3
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night...
Imagine how many embarrassments in Christian history would have been prevented if Christ's followers had, instead of making false predictions of Christ's return, recognized that no one knows the day nor the hour, not even the Son.
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I don't believe God had Peter deny him three times.....I think that diminishes the character of God to do that. Or do you believe that God just was able to calculate because he's wise Peter would deny him three times. I can't believe that either.
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On the other hand they knew the Old Testament far better than gentile Christians
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Silly Uncle Wayne
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I don't see that at all. The question of the existence of the future arises out of whether God knows it or not. The only way that God can know all things and still be able to change the future is if it is not already set in stone, i.e. if it is not already pre-existent.
Therefore the future does not exist.
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Silly Uncle Wayne
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What is the point of praying, then? If the outcome is fixed, then whether we pray or not the outcome is going to happen. We might as well not pray for an outcome since it is going to happen anyway. Use the time to do something else such as play video games.
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This is synergism, perhaps disguised as "simply reading", or "face value".
If the Father knows the day and the hour, then it is in fact known.
No. God can do as he wants. Jesus lived here as a man. His miracles and knowledge were as a man depending on his God. He did so perfectly, thus proving he was God.
How does God reacting to human choices imply no predetermining of those choices? "Now I know" is like saying, "Now I have shown" or like in court, "Now I find...". Further, even if you reject the 'court' notion, it can easily be like many other places in Scripture where God talks down to us, according to our limited understanding.
The Father has fixed the times and seasons. Hello. The fact we don't know them is irrelevant.
Mark 13:32 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
If the Father knows the day and the hour, then it is in fact known.
No. God can do as he wants. Jesus lived here as a man. His miracles and knowledge were as a man depending on his God. He did so perfectly, thus proving he was God.
How does God reacting to human choices imply no predetermining of those choices? "Now I know" is like saying, "Now I have shown" or like in court, "Now I find...". Further, even if you reject the 'court' notion, it can easily be like many other places in Scripture where God talks down to us, according to our limited understanding.
The Father has fixed the times and seasons. Hello. The fact we don't know them is irrelevant.
If the due season is coming, how does that imply the exact date is yet to be determined?
Mark 13:32 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
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