If macroevolution is incorrect, then what replaces it? (Please read OP before commenting)

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SeventhFisherofMen

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I'm well familiar with the creation story in Genesis, believe me.



So what is the "breath of life"? How does it turn dust/clay into a living organism? What is the mechanism at work there?

I once tried building a statue and then breathed on it. It didn't turn into a living organism. What did I do wrong?



I don't believe it because 3000 year old poetry is not a satisfactory explanation for turning non-living things into living things.
I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?



John 3:12
 
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pitabread

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I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

And there it is.

FWIW, I've had the exact same discussion a dozen times before and they always wind up in the same place.

This does reinforce the OP's point though: creationism is not an adequate explanation in compared to biological evolution for explaining emergence and diversity of species.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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And there it is.

FWIW, I've had the exact same discussion a dozen times before and they always wind up in the same place.

This does reinforce the OP's point though: creationism is not an adequate explanation in compared to biological evolution for explaining emergence of species.
Jesus hasn't given up on trying to reach you, and just know there will come a day when more than the Bible is given to explain everything, and that will happen in Heaven.

Heaven is a place where you can ask any question you want and you will get an answer.

You might ask "Why doesn't He just answer everything now? If He exists why doesn't he just appear to everyone?"

The truth is He has appeared to some and can appear/speak to you if you just ask. Part of scientific experiments is testing something, so why not just ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you? If you have asked and received you then have your very own evidence that there's more to this Earth that what we can see.
 
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pitabread

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Jesus hasn't given up on trying to reach you, and just know there will come a day when more than the Bible is given to explain everything, and that will happen in Heaven.

Heaven is a place where you can ask any question you want and you will get an answer.

You might ask "Why doesn't He just answer everything now? If He exists why doesn't he just appear to everyone?"

The truth is He has appeared to some and can appear/speak to you if you just ask. Part of scientific experiments is testing something, so why not just ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you? If you have asked and received you then have your very own evidence that there's more to this Earth that what we can see.

Wrong forum for preaching. Take it to apologetics.

Btw, not the first time I've been preached at on this forum and I'm sure it won't be the last.
 
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jacknife

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Jesus hasn't given up on trying to reach you, and just know there will come a day when more than the Bible is given to explain everything, and that will happen in Heaven.

Heaven is a place where you can ask any question you want and you will get an answer.

You might ask "Why doesn't He just answer everything now? If He exists why doesn't he just appear to everyone?"

The truth is He has appeared to some and can appear/speak to you if you just ask. Part of scientific experiments is testing something, so why not just ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you? If you have asked and received you then have your very own evidence that there's more to this Earth that what we can see.
That sounds kind of awful i like to figure things out on my own.
 
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Ophiolite

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@SeventhFisherofMen I would appreciate it if you would remove the Prayers award from my post #171. I am sure it was well intentioned, but it is not appreciated. What would be appreciated is a serious response to the points I made in that post.
 
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Bradskii

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The Bible specifically outlines who created what and how.

No it doesn't. Unless I'm missing a couple of pages in my copy. Mine's got two out of the three. It says who created what. But it doesn't say how.

Do you have some information as to how He created animals and fish etc?
 
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loveofourlord

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Hark is right. Your assumption is unscientific. If a theory is falsified then it must be discarded. It doesn't matter at all whether there is an available alternative.

A real scientist would, upon discovering that macroevolution is false, discard it and reply to your question, "Nothing." Or maybe he would have a suggestion about how to unify the data that macroevolution attempts to unify. But there is no scientific onus on him to do so. In science, falsification of a theory does not presuppose replacement of that theory.

I think the point is, if you prove macro evolution wrong, you need to replace it with something that explains why it appeared right. it's not enough to just get rid of.
 
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loveofourlord

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This is the assumption of the OP:
  • If someone claims that the solution to a problem is incorrect, then they are obliged to offer a new solution to the problem.

That's false. Everyone knows it's false. The OP is based on a fallacy.

If you claim evolution is false you need to come up with a better answer that explains all of what evolution explains.
 
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loveofourlord

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Honestly man (or woman) I'm tired sorry if this got heated. At the end of the day is it a salvation issue how things got made? Does it really matter whos right? Isnt the most important thing that God loves us and wants us to show others that love?

well it does matter, if your going to repeat creationist lies about evolution and repeat stuff that anyone with a grade school knowledge of evolution will realize is wrong, your not going to bring anyone to god. creationists drive people away from Chritianity by demanding they ignore reality of evolution.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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well it does matter, if your going to repeat creationist lies about evolution and repeat stuff that anyone with a grade school knowledge of evolution will realize is wrong, your not going to bring anyone to god. creationists drive people away from Chritianity by demanding they ignore reality of evolution.
On the contrary evolutionist lies turn people away from God and towards the world as taking the conformed to this world lies as being more factual than the Bible they claim to have faith in.

If the Bible is wrong about creation where do you stop claiming the Bible is lying?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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On the contrary evolutionist lies turn people away from God and towards the world as taking the conformed to this world lies as being more factual than the Bible they claim to have faith in.

If the Bible is wrong about creation where do you stop claiming the Bible is lying?

Can you take this somewhere else please, or I will get moderators involved.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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Can you take this somewhere else please, or I will get moderators involved.
I didn't continue to preach I just responded to a statement. No need to threaten me with moderators.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I didn't continue to preach I just responded to a statement. No need to threaten me with moderators.

You are preaching though. You haven't even made an attempt to address the OP. I have asked you multiple times to leave this thread because you clearly are not here to discuss the OP, but you continue to preach and go against the rules of this part of the forum.
So again, please leave, or I will get the moderators involved.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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You are preaching though. You haven't even made an attempt to address the OP. I have asked you multiple times to leave this thread because you clearly are not here to discuss the OP, but you continue to preach and go against the rules of this part of the forum.
So again, please leave, or I will get the moderators involved.
Where in the rules does it mention I cannot bring up Creationism?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Where in the rules does it mention I cannot bring up Creationism?

That's not my issue with you and you know it.
Now I have reported you to the moderators, just to let you know. So again, please leave this thread and take your comments elsewhere since you are doing nothing to actually make an attempt to talk about the OP like I hav asked.
 
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Bradskii

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If someone claims that the solution to a problem is incorrect, then they are obliged to offer a new solution to the problem.

That's false. Everyone knows it's false. The OP is based on a fallacy.

I just need to address this. Macroevolution isn't a form of evolution or a different type of evolution. It's a term used to describe what happens when a species evolves to a point where it can be convenient to suggest that it's sufficiently different from the original species to give the organism a new species name. To repeat that - it's a matter of convenience.

There are some differences that the lay person will simply not notice. But which are enough of a difference for the specialists in that particular organism to nominate a new species name. But, and this is the point which seems to have been overlooked - we are still talking about the evolutionary process itself.

So to nominate macroevolution as 'a problem to be solved' is meaningless. It might be a slip of the finger on the keyboard. But more likely is the result of a complete misunderstanding of the topic itself, because what is being said is that evolution itself is 'a problem to be solved'.

And then to go on to suggest that it needs a solution simple exacerbates the original fault. The theory of evolution isn't a solution to a problem. It's an explanation for agreed scientific facts. So anyone is free to suggest that the facts are in dispute - but they will have to give very good reasons for doing so. But you cannot say that the explanation for those facts is wrong without offering a better one.

Australia beat Germany in the semi of the Olympic hockey yesterday. That's the fact. Can you dispute it? Well, it would be tough as it was broadcast live and we all saw it. So what was the explanation for that fact? Well, we need a theory. And if the theory is generally accepted they had the best tactics then if you want to dispute that then you need a different explantion. It would be nonsensical to say 'No, they didn't win because of better tactics' and leave that comment hanging. You'll need to say 'No, they din't win because of better tactics...they won because they were the fitter team'.

You need to replace the generally agreed theory (explanation) with another.
 
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