The vaccinated can still transmit Covid? Really???

Ophiolite · Aug 2, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
What I'd really like to see is everyone doing their homework and FULLY taking into account as many social and health factors (and facts of the reality of it all as we learn about it) rather than one political side or th eother picking up on some one, singulary aspect of this whole Covid ordeal and RUNNING, RUNNING, RUNNING with that one single piece of supposed "fact" about Covid and using it as a battering ram via political propaganda for their preferred political agenda (whether that agenda is right or left).

Excellent idea. If you had done your homework you would not have made the ill-informed OP.

Before and Evermore · Aug 2, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
So, you're telling me that there's nothing political whatsoever about the idea that those who are vaccinated can still spread Covid just as much as those who are not yet vaccinated?

No. Also, there is no evidence it's just as much.

Oh come now! Surely you jest?! Anything that touches upon social potentialities and human ethics ... is political on some level.

This is just a matter of science.

Sometimes that level is low, and it might even seem to be almost non-existent to the unitiated and philosophically uneducated. Yet, whether the level of recognition is low or high, it's still political. Why? Because someone always makes it so ... by "pushing" others.

I have an masters in philosophy. I work as a scientist.

adrianmonk · Aug 2, 2021

Tanj said:
Like any Australian, he practices them in Maccas parking lots and paddocks, looking to make the finals...

Australia, where everything either wants to kill you or is a sport.

That looks like a nice fun afternoon !

ThatRobGuy · Aug 2, 2021

RestoreTheJoy said:
When shedding from the vaccine was mentioned months ago, it was ridiculed as a "conspiracy theory".

Whoops. Yet again, it's true.

The "vaccine shedding theory" is completely different from "vaccinated people can still transmit the virus if they become infected"

There's no actual coronavirus in the vaccines. Therefore, a non-infected person getting the vaccine isn't going to magically give a non-vaccinated person covid.

The "vaccine shedding" theory was popularized by a shifty chiropractor (I could've left the "shifty" part out... simply saying "chiropractor" should imply the "shifty" part)

ThatRobGuy · Aug 2, 2021

I'm not aware of any scientist who suggested the vaccine was "100% capable of stopping any and all transmission"

...only that the vaccine can lessen the chances of catching and transmitting, and if you are one of the 1 in 1300 vaccinated who catch a breakthrough case, it'll be much more mild than it would have been. (which the data has proven to be true)

2PhiloVoid · Aug 3, 2021

Ophiolite said:
Excellent idea. If you had done your homework you would not have made the ill-informed OP.

Ill informed? My OP was neither informed or ill-informed. It was merely ... observational and reflecting upon a particular news piece.

Surely you can see that.

My assumption is that when I create an OP containing a short video, people WILL actually watch the freaking video content before attempting to splatter the thread with their opinions and comments, of whatever quality.

On my part, I simply brought up a little point for discussion.

FireDragon76 · Aug 3, 2021

Pommer said:
“It’s a floor wax”, “It’s a dessert topping!” (SNL season 1 ep nine)

“It’s a healthcare crisis!”
“It’s a civil-liberties crisis!”
We need better writers!

It's a civilizational crisis. The vast majority of the countries that have minimized the damage due to COVID-19 have had one thing in common, they are part of the Sinosphere and share Confucian values.

The western countries that delt with COVID-19 the best have been countries heavily influenced by Lutheran ethics, like Germany, Denmark, and Norway, but even then the performance have not been nearly as good as East Asian countries.

Australia and New Zealand are outliers, but I think alot of their success has been due to geography which gave them more time to prepare and adapt their expectations.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 3, 2021

Before and Evermore said:
No. Also, there is no evidence it's just as much.

I'll just assume, then, that by this you mean that the speaker within the brief video I presented........has no evidence for saying what he said. I'd hate to commit a fallacy in assuming that this is what you meant to imply, but it almost comes across this way.

This is just a matter of science.

Nothing is "simply" a matter of science.

I have an masters in philosophy. I work as a scientist.

Goodie. I'm sure you and I can compare (and contrast) our respective philosophical notes, then.

Ophiolite · Aug 3, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
Ill informed? My OP was neither informed or ill-informed. It was merely ... observational and reflecting upon a particular news piece.

Surely you can see that.

I was not addressing your OP. I was addressing your emotional rant in a later post.
Surely you can see that.

However, if you wish to address the OP, I'll focus on your title, which I regard as an executive summary of the title*. "The vaccinated can still transmit Covid? Really???"
The multiple question marks after "Really", and the choice of "Really" itself, strongly indicate an extreme scepticism. (If that as not your intent then your writing, in this instance, needs considerable improvement.)
To have extreme scepticism at this point in the pandemic, given the amount of publicly available, expert information on the subject brands you as ill-informed on the matter. No amount of dissembling will change that.

Ceallaigh · Aug 3, 2021

Even though I'm vaccinated. I'm going to go back to taking all the precautions, this time to avoid getting infected and transmitting it to someone unvaccinated.

I wasn't expecting the routine to really start ending until at least June of 2022.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 3, 2021

Ophiolite said:
I was not addressing your OP. I was addressing your emotional rant in a later post.
Surely you can see that.

However, if you wish to address the OP, I'll focus on your title, which I regard as an executive summary of the title*. "The vaccinated can still transmit Covid? Really???"
The multiple question marks after "Really", and the choice of "Really" itself, strongly indicate an extreme scepticism. (If that as not your intent then your writing, in this instance, needs considerable improvement.)
To have extreme scepticism at this point in the pandemic, given the amount of publicly available, expert information on the subject brands you as ill-informed on the matter. No amount of dissembling will change that.

From my philosophical and hermeneutical p.o.v., the 'meaning' of my OP header is determined by ME. Sure, you can attempt to interpret my 'meaning,' but your own personal reading will be (is, actually) equivalent to approximation, maybe even guesswork on your part.

Usually, the best way to clarify another person's meaning is to ask that same person, "Hey Joe! Whad'ya mean by that speech act you laid down for us to read?" And then the author of that message (if he's amiable enough, of course) will offer you his intended meaning.

Then again, if the author senses possible hostility on the part of his interlocutors (since some speech acts can become political in nature), then that author might purposely obfuscate.

As for skepticism about the spreading of Covid (Delta variant specifically, it seems) via the already vaccinated, I have no reason to doubt that Fauci [as per the OP video] is telling me the truth. Should I be skeptical of him?

Before and Evermore · Aug 3, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
From my philosophical and hermeneutical p.o.v., the 'meaning' of my OP header is determined by ME. Sure, you can attempt to interpret my 'meaning,' but your own personal reading will be (is, actually) equivalent to approximation, maybe even guesswork on your part.

Usually, the best way to clarify another person's meaning is to ask that same person, "Hey Joe! Whad'ya mean by that speech act you laid down for us to read?" And then the author of that message (if he's amiable enough, of course) will offer you his intended meaning.

Then again, if the author senses possible hostility on the part of his interlocutors (since some speech acts can become political in nature), then that author might purposely obfuscate.

As for skepticism about the spreading of Covid (Delta variant specifically, it seems) via the already vaccinated, I have no reason to doubt that Fauci [as per the OP video] is telling me the truth. Should I be skeptical of him?

Okay, so what do you do for a living?

2PhiloVoid · Aug 3, 2021

Before and Evermore said:
Okay, so what do you do for a living?

Well........I don't do what I wanted to do. That's for sure! ^_^

But that doesn't mean I'll let a good Philosophy degree go to utter spoil and waste.

Before and Evermore · Aug 3, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
Well........I don't do what I wanted to do. That's for sure! But that doesn't mean I'll let a good Philosophy degree go to utter spoil and waste.

Why didn't you answer? It's a pretty simple question. I am really curious.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 3, 2021

Before and Evermore said:
Why didn't you answer? It's a pretty simple question. I am really curious.

It's not as if "an answer" on a public forum lends itself one way or the other to any real credibility. At least not in my book it doesn't. Besides, it also doesn't have much to do with the OP focal point.

Ophiolite · Aug 3, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
From my philosophical and hermeneutical p.o.v., the 'meaning' of my OP header is determined by ME. Sure, you can attempt to interpret my 'meaning,' but your own personal reading will be (is, actually) equivalent to approximation, maybe even guesswork on your part.

Nonsense. You may have an intended meaning, but the meaning perceived by your reader is determined by a combination of your skill at writing and the readers skill at reading.

The use of "Really???" is something that the vast majority of writers choose in order to convey scepticism. If your intention is to communicate clearly you do not use such a construction when you actually mean to convey something other than scepticism; certainly not as a title and not without strongly emphasised explantion of whar you actually intend. You are smart enough to know this and further dissembling does not change that.

2PhiloVoid · Aug 3, 2021

Ophiolite said:
Nonsense. You may have an intended meaning, but the meaning perceived by your reader is determined by a combination of your skill at writing and the readers skill at reading.

The use of "Really???" is something that the vast majority of writers choose in order to convey scepticism. If your intention is to communicate clearly you do not use such a construction when you actually mean to convey something other than scepticism; certainly not as a title and not without strongly emphasised explantion of whar you actually intend. You are smart enough to know this and further dissembling does not change that.

Oh, thanks for the lesson in semantics, then.

So, with that said, I'm assuming then that by what I've "written" in the title of the OP alone, you think that I'm skeptical that vaccinated people can actually spread Covid-- that is, that I don't really think those who've had the vaccination can indeed spread Covid?

Are we at a mutual understanding on what we both think you thought I meant on that?

7thKeeper · Aug 3, 2021

pescador said:
Interesting except for one glaring error: South America and Africa are not countries, they're continents.

Now I need to find the episode of Whose Line Is It Anyway where Drew refers to Africa as a country and he gets corrected and joked about for the rest of the episode about it.

RDKirk · Aug 3, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
So, you're telling me that there's nothing political whatsoever about the idea that those who are vaccinated can still spread Covid just as much as those who are not yet vaccinated?

I just noted something I hadn't noticed before in that video. Of people who are vaccinated and subsequently found to have transmittable virus, Fauci said:

"...vaccinated and has a breakthrough infection..."

That is to say, it is not all vaccinated people, it's that percentage for whom, effectively speaking, the vaccine simply didn't work.

At this point, about 0.08 percent of vaccinated persons have been tested to have breakthrough infections.

Ophiolite · Aug 3, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
Are we at a mutual understanding on what we both think you thought I meant on that?

Correct.

And, just to further clarify my point, I'll return to an earlier comment of yours:

2PhiloVoid said:
Usually, the best way to clarify another person's meaning is to ask that same person, "Hey Joe! Whad'ya mean by that speech act you laid down for us to read?" And then the author of that message (if he's amiable enough, of course) will offer you his intended meaning.

If I had been in any doubt about what you meant, then I would have asked. Your language left no doubt. It's just you didn't mean what you had actually said.

I note that such an eventually must be upsetting for a philosopher, so I understand why you seem/seemed reluctant to accept it.

The vaccinated can still transmit Covid? Really???

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