CDC updates guidance, recommends vaccinated people wear masks indoors in certain areas

cow451 · Aug 1, 2021

Sodafox said:
I believe hell is dying with the weight of regrets, nothing more.

That’s what 2020 thought, too.

Aldebaran · Aug 1, 2021

Blade said:
"you don't take it because your scared" "because they don't give a care for anyone else".

People that says this... do you not care about those that took the shot and had awful side effects or died? " horrific convulsions, partial paralysis, hospitalizations and other bizarre side effects." lets post just a few

Mexican doctor hospitalized after receiving Covid-19 vaccine. Hundreds of Israelis get infected with covid after receiving Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

Wife of ‘perfectly healthy’ Miami doctor, 56, who died of a blood disorder 16 days after getting Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine is certain it was triggered by the jab, as drug giant investigates first death with a suspected link to shot.

Death of Swiss man after Pfizer vaccine. 88-year-old collapses and dies several hours after being vaccinated. Thousands negatively affected after getting Covid-19 vaccine.Hospital worker with no prior allergies in intensive care with severe reaction after Pfizer Covid vaccine.

4 volunteers develop FACIAL PARALYSIS after taking Pfizer Covid-19 jab, prompting FDA to recommend ‘surveillance for cases’. Hundreds Sent to Emergency Room After Getting COVID-19 Vaccines.

I had to really search..had to reword what I wanted to search because every link was? "SAFE you have nothing to worry out". I think had to use another search not Google or bing..odd huh. Each I posted every one had a link to the story. There were many more.

So you read these and ..yes yes I know each one of those people like you said or thought "Its safe nothing is going to happen to me". Lets allow everyone to make their own choice. Each one had a family friends that now lost or has loved one with something effecting their body for life. Something those that made the vaccine said "we don't what the long term side effects will be". <---I never gamble.. I have faith in GOD.. He will keep His word since I trust HIM not man my free choice. He has always kept His word.. By HIS stripes I was Healed. All those promises in Deut had read at my wedding over 30 years ago. I believe in God in Christ in the sweet sweet holy Spirit.. not what I see around me or feel or hear. Again my free choice.

I will say this.. its very odd how believers don't treat sinners like this in any. Being lost forever with out Jesus Christ is .. yeah much worse if you ask me. Makes you think what we truly care about. I never took the shot because.. well never taken the flu shot. I would LOVE to say its because I walk by fait which I do.. yet I just don't want those shots. Wife and family get shots.. I can not as GOD as my witness remember the last time got flu or sick.. I am 60. I have many stories of things that have come against me.. they come.. I just will not receive them. I trust in Jesus GODS WORD.. I have since I was young walked by faith. A there are countless stories all over the world about this.. healings and not getting covid.

China, Asia, India, Africa, America.. and just about Covid. WHY they are not being posted talked about.. I can't answer that. I can talk like others "I don't have fear as the reason I should get the shot". "I am not scared about people around me giving me anything. I don't run with fear" see anyone can say that.. its not true.. its kind a power play or a way to be controlling. We see how some get mad upset when they have no control over Gods Children. So.. not here to offend

Not sure if you saw it or not, but I started a thread a while ago about Senator Ron Johnson hosting a forum where people came to testify about vaccination injuries they and loved ones received. There's a video of it in the OP. Vaccination injury testimony from many individuals

Pommer · Aug 2, 2021

Sodafox said:
I believe hell is dying with the weight of regrets, nothing more.

This would suggest a “safe” life without taking risks that enable one to grow.
I have many, many regrets and am thankful for every one of them.

Bobber · Aug 2, 2021

busrider said:
So many falsehoods, bye

Well you say you're a Christian and scriptures' clearly say no man knows what's in the spirit of the man except that person 1 Cor 2:11 and you just brush it off calling it falsehood? Well I'm good with letting the readers decide NOT YOU on just what is false. Good luck trying to explain that to the Creator that you know everything in a person when he'll say YOU DIDN'T and never could but OK, BYE.

For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 1 Cor 2:11

Sodafox · Aug 2, 2021

Pommer said:
This would suggest a “safe” life without taking risks that enable one to grow.
I have many, many regrets and am thankful for every one of them.

There's a difference between regrets that you're grateful for and ones that weigh down your "soul". Ex: taking a risky venture that you learned from but ultimately only hurt you vs a risky venture that caused your family to suffer. And, of course, some people may do truly terrible deeds but because they feel no remorse for their actions they do not experience "hell" before death (sociopaths and narcissists) while sometime who really did no wrong but still felt guilt over their actions of inactions does (ex: someone who wished they could've done more for their kids but only they feel that way, and their children have long forgiven them).

I guess guilt would've been a better word than regret.

whatbogsends · Aug 2, 2021

busrider said:
Anyone that can take it, such as yourself, that refuses because they don't give a care for anyone else.

Tell that to this guy:

busrider said:
Then you know nothing about what a vaccine does. A vaccine does not take away the possibility of getting sick, what it does is make your body produce the stuff to fight the virus. With any vaccine you can still get sick but not as sick or die as if you never had the vaccine. The vaccine was not meant to stop the disease but mitigate the symptoms by having your body produce the necessary stuff so you don't die if you catch coivd.

Or the CDC:

"The bottom line was that, in contrast to the other variants, vaccinated people, even if they didn't get sick, got infected and shed virus at similar levels as unvaccinated people who got infected," Dr. Walter Orenstein, who heads the Emory Vaccine Center and who viewed the documents, told CNN.
...
"Vaccines prevent more than 90% of severe disease, but may be less effective at preventing infection or transmission," it reads. "Therefore, more breakthrough and more community spread despite vaccination."

CDC document warns Delta variant appears to spread as easily as chicken pox and cause more severe infection - CNNPolitics

The vaccines aren't significantly reducing the spread of delta. Reducing your social contact is how you participate protecting societal health.

Trying to blame the unvaccinated for the spread of Covid is misplaced. It's those who continue to have high social contact that are putting us all at risk.

rjs330 · Aug 2, 2021

busrider said:
No I don't, I live in caring for others which many "Christians" do not.

So you say.

busrider · Aug 2, 2021

whatbogsends said:
Tell that to this guy:

Or the CDC:

"The bottom line was that, in contrast to the other variants, vaccinated people, even if they didn't get sick, got infected and shed virus at similar levels as unvaccinated people who got infected," Dr. Walter Orenstein, who heads the Emory Vaccine Center and who viewed the documents, told CNN.
...
"Vaccines prevent more than 90% of severe disease, but may be less effective at preventing infection or transmission," it reads. "Therefore, more breakthrough and more community spread despite vaccination."

CDC document warns Delta variant appears to spread as easily as chicken pox and cause more severe infection - CNNPolitics

The vaccines aren't significantly reducing the spread of delta. Reducing your social contact is how you participate protecting societal health.

Trying to blame the unvaccinated for the spread of Covid is misplaced. It's those who continue to have high social contact that are putting us all at risk.

Always excuses never Christian love. You want to die fine but don't lie to others and let them live. I can tell you now this variant is killing the young, this is no longer an old people illness nor is it easy to get over, nor does it has the small stats that it's friend regular Covid had. This one is very deadly to those without any vaccination and if they don't die they will become quite unintelligent.

The unvaccinated are the problem. Sure the media lied and didn't tell the whole story that the vaccine was in development for the past ten years and mostly because President Trump was in. Then you get dolt's on the internet who just here one lie and go with it forever. Now that President Trump is out his supporters are trying to make it a liberal vaccine.

If all these dolt heads got smart and took the vaccine then this would be over but no there has to be complete dolts out there who want to keep this up

busrider · Aug 2, 2021

rjs330 said:
So you say.

You bet your sweat bippy I do, anyone who can get vaccinated and refuses to help their neighbor by getting vaccinated is just "Christian"

Sodafox · Aug 3, 2021

busrider said:
You bet your sweat bippy I do, anyone who can get vaccinated and refuses to help their neighbor by getting vaccinated is just "Christian"

Since everyone can get vaccinated (other than children under 12, shall we compare covid deaths under 12 vs vaccine deaths?) then no one needs to get vaccinated to protect others. The vaccine only protects the person who took it. Get off your high horse.

Sodafox · Aug 3, 2021

busrider said:
The unvaccinated are the problem. Sure the media lied and didn't tell the whole story that the vaccine was in development for the past ten years and mostly because President Trump was in. Then you get dolt's on the internet who just here one lie and go with it forever. Now that President Trump is out his supporters are trying to make it a liberal vaccine.

Tried and failed (more than 55% of studies terminated/withdrawn)

The Evolution of mRNA Vaccine Trials in Oncology - Clinical Trials Arena

sfs · Aug 3, 2021

whatbogsends said:
The vaccines aren't significantly reducing the spread of delta.

What they said was not correct.

whatbogsends said:
"Vaccines prevent more than 90% of severe disease, but may be less effective at preventing infection or transmission,

Now that's correct. The vaccines are apparently only 80% effective at reducing infection, i.e. you're five times less likely to get infected (and therefore to pass the virus on). With delta, that means some degree of social distancing may still be required.

sfs · Aug 3, 2021

Sodafox said:
Since everyone can get vaccinated (other than children under 12, shall we compare covid deaths under 12 vs vaccine deaths?) then no one needs to get vaccinated to protect others.

That would be (sort of) true if everyone could be protected by the vaccine. Lots of people can't be -- people being treated for cancer, for example, or for autoimmune diseases. Even leaving those aside, some vaccinated people will still get sick and some will be permanently disabled and some will die, things that would not have happened if enough were vaccinated to suppress transmission.

whatbogsends · Aug 3, 2021

busrider said:
Always excuses never Christian love. You want to die fine but don't lie to others and let them live. I can tell you now this variant is killing the young, this is no longer an old people illness nor is it easy to get over, nor does it has the small stats that it's friend regular Covid had. This one is very deadly to those without any vaccination and if they don't die they will become quite unintelligent.

The unvaccinated are the problem. Sure the media lied and didn't tell the whole story that the vaccine was in development for the past ten years and mostly because President Trump was in. Then you get dolt's on the internet who just here one lie and go with it forever. Now that President Trump is out his supporters are trying to make it a liberal vaccine.

If all these dolt heads got smart and took the vaccine then this would be over but no there has to be complete dolts out there who want to keep this up

You contradicted yourself within a few posts. You know as well as i do that the vaccines don't prevent infection, just limit severity of that infection.

The evidence is now saying the vaccinated are transmitting the disease at close to the same rate as the unvaccinated. It's transmission of the disease that allows mutations to occur. Those engaging in high social contact are the ones putting us at risk.

whatbogsends · Aug 3, 2021

sfs said:
What they said was not correct.

Now that's correct. The vaccines are apparently only 80% effective at reducing infection, i.e. you're five times less likely to get infected (and therefore to pass the virus on). With delta, that means some degree of social distancing may still be required.

I've asked you for your source for this claim on another thread, but you haven't provided it. Can you please provide the source for that claim?

Firstly, it seems that your claim can't possibly be true in the context of all vaccines, as they all have different rates of protection.

Secondly, it runs counter to information that is coming out of pro-vaccine outlets, although the information varies widely.

Pfizer and BioNTech’s Covid-19 vaccine is just 39% effective in Israel where the delta variant is the dominant strain, according to a new report from the country’s Health Ministry.
The two-dose vaccine still works very well in preventing people from getting seriously sick, demonstrating 88% effectiveness against hospitalization and 91% effectiveness against severe illness, according to the Israeli data.

Delta variant: Pfizer Covid vaccine 39% effective in Israel, prevents severe illness (cnbc.com

In the presentation, dated July 29, the agency does not estimate that vaccinated Americans are at a significantly greater risk of so-called "breakthrough" infections. In fact, it cites recent unpublished data from several of the CDC's ongoing cohort studies that have scrutinized large groups of Americans suggesting vaccine effectiveness remains high months after their second shot, suggesting the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines remain 65-75% effective even against asymptomatic infection.

In internal document about COVID-19 vaccines and delta variant, CDC says "the war has changed" - CBS News

Moreover, none of these estimates (nor yours) takes into account the waning protection of the vaccines over time. In fact, it's still a giant question as to what the duration of protection and what is the rate of decline. Additionally, most of the time vaccinated individuals aren't even being tested for asymptomatic infection, so the true rates of infection are mostly guesswork.

LONDON (Reuters) -The protection that vaccines give against coronavirus infection, and potentially severe disease, is highly likely to wane over time so vaccine campaigns will continue for years to come, scientists told the British government's advisory group.

"It is highly likely that vaccine induced immunity to SARS-CoV-2 infection, and potentially severe disease (but probably to a lesser extent) will wane over time," according to an executive summary of a document considered by the government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE).
...
"It is therefore likely that there will be vaccination campaigns against SARS-CoV-2 for many years to come, but currently we do not know what will be the optimal required frequency for re-vaccination to protect the vulnerable from COVID disease," the scientists said.

COVID vaccine protection highly likely to wane over time - UK advisers say - SWI swissinfo.ch

I agree that there seems to be some indication that the vaccines do reduce the spread somewhat, but i'm not finding anything like your 80% claim. I know you do this for a living, so i'd like to know what you're looking at when you make these statements.

Sodafox · Aug 3, 2021

sfs said:
That would be (sort of) true if everyone could be protected by the vaccine. Lots of people can't be -- people being treated for cancer, for example, or for autoimmune diseases. Even leaving those aside, some vaccinated people will still get sick and some will be permanently disabled and some will die, things that would not have happened if enough were vaccinated to suppress transmission.

Wrong on both counts. A post of mine of the previous page has a link for people with weakened immune systems (#502) and here's one for cancer.

Cancer patients show good COVID immune response to vaccine, infection

sfs · Aug 3, 2021

Sodafox said:
here's one for cancer.

Cancer patients show good COVID immune response to vaccine, infection

Did you read that link?
'But the median immunoglobulin G (IgG) antibody concentration in the cancer patients was significantly lower than that in controls, a finding associated with a combination of chemotherapy and immunotherapy.'
'"The cellular immune response in patients with cancer is clearly inhibited, which may underpin their reduced response to the vaccine and could leave them more susceptible than healthy controls, even with adequate antibody levels," the researchers wrote. "It could also lead to impaired durability of their protection."'
'"Low IgG antibody levels in patients with cancer could be associated with their higher risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection compared with that of the general population," the authors wrote. "Additional studies will be needed to confirm whether there is a difference in the immune response to the virus between people with and without cancer."'
'But, as in the first study, IgG antibodies against the nucleocapsid and spike proteins were significantly reduced in cancer patients, with the lowest IgG nucleocapsid antibody levels in those who received chemotherapy. '

Sodafox · Aug 3, 2021

sfs said:
Did you read that link?
'But the median immunoglobulin G (IgG) antibody concentration in the cancer patients was significantly lower than that in controls, a finding associated with a combination of chemotherapy and immunotherapy.'
'"The cellular immune response in patients with cancer is clearly inhibited, which may underpin their reduced response to the vaccine and could leave them more susceptible than healthy controls, even with adequate antibody levels," the researchers wrote. "It could also lead to impaired durability of their protection."'
'"Low IgG antibody levels in patients with cancer could be associated with their higher risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection compared with that of the general population," the authors wrote. "Additional studies will be needed to confirm whether there is a difference in the immune response to the virus between people with and without cancer."'
'But, as in the first study, IgG antibodies against the nucleocapsid and spike proteins were significantly reduced in cancer patients, with the lowest IgG nucleocapsid antibody levels in those who received chemotherapy. '

Doesn't make a difference if vaccinated people can transmit the virus as easily as unvaccinated people. I was just pointing out that cancer patients can get the vaccine and 90% can develop the antibodies.

Outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 Infections, including COVID-19 ...

"The findings in this report are subject to at least four limitations. First, data from this report are insufficient to draw conclusions about the effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines against SARS-CoV-2, including the Delta variant, during this outbreak. As population-level vaccination coverage increases, vaccinated persons are likely to represent a larger proportion of COVID-19 cases."

So, are you going to respond to whatbogsends with your sources of vaccinated people being 5x less likely to get infected/spread the virus?

busrider · Aug 3, 2021

Sodafox said:
Since everyone can get vaccinated (other than children under 12, shall we compare covid deaths under 12 vs vaccine deaths?) then no one needs to get vaccinated to protect others. The vaccine only protects the person who took it. Get off your high horse.

sfs said:
That would be (sort of) true if everyone could be protected by the vaccine. Lots of people can't be -- people being treated for cancer, for example, or for autoimmune diseases. Even leaving those aside, some vaccinated people will still get sick and some will be permanently disabled and some will die, things that would not have happened if enough were vaccinated to suppress transmission.

Exactly some people can't seem to understand that.

whatbogsends said:
You contradicted yourself within a few posts. You know as well as i do that the vaccines don't prevent infection, just limit severity of that infection.

The evidence is now saying the vaccinated are transmitting the disease at close to the same rate as the unvaccinated. It's transmission of the disease that allows mutations to occur. Those engaging in high social contact are the ones putting us at risk.

No I did not, I am not an idiot like your trying to make out. I know what a vaccine is and it's not magic like your trying to say. Of course you can still get sick and spread it, but you won't up in the hospital or a grave. You want to die, have at it I am sick of the deniers and anti vaxxers, I'm out.

sfs · Aug 3, 2021

whatbogsends said:
I've asked you for your source for this claim on another thread, but you haven't provided it. Can you please provide the source for that claim?

Sorry, there's a lot going on in my life. See slide 19 in the leaked CDC internal presentation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/cont...ections/94390e3a-5e45-44a5-ac40-2744e4e25f2e/. I haven't tracked back the source, and maybe that estimate is too high -- I dunno. Data is definitely sparse on this issue. But I don't think there's any question that vaccination (I'm mostly referring to mRNA vaccines, which are the great majority in the US, where most of the debate seems to be happening) substantially reduce the probability of infection and therefore transmission.

whatbogsends said:
suggesting the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines remain 65-75% effective even against asymptomatic infection.

Again, that's an important level of protection.

whatbogsends said:
Moreover, none of these estimates (nor yours) takes into account the waning protection of the vaccines over time.

Waning effectiveness could indeed be an important issue, but it doesn't seem directly relevant to whether vaccinating people today will protect vulnerable people next month.

CDC updates guidance, recommends vaccinated people wear masks indoors in certain areas

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