Under the New Covenant, where is the Biblical text for Worshipping on a particular day (ie Sunday)

Lawrence87 said:

What about 2 Thessalonians 2:15?

It clearly instructs people to follow the word of mouth traditions in addition to those written.
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2 Thess 2
14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold on to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

Proves that not all teaching that is handed down - is bad.

Gal 1:6-9 "Even if WE Apostles or an Angel from heaven should preach to you a different gospel - let him be accursed"

2 Thess 2:1 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

Acts 17:11 Paul himself subject to "sola scriptura" testing - "they searched the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things were SO"

Mark 7:7-13
7 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Lawrence87 said:

How can the Bible be trusted as a source of doctrine if tradition is such a bad thing,

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Your argument is "with the text" as we see from Mark 7 above.

and this also holds for 2 Tim 3:16 "16 All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching (doctrine), for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness;"

Lawrence87 said:

The earliest New Testament writing is dated to around 50 AD, so you've got a couple of decades after the death of Christ where there was literally nothing so far as written doctrine goes,

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Your argument is "with the text"

SabbathBlessings said:

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Would you describe the practise of Sunday worship as apostasy?

Lawrence87 said:

Would you describe the practise of Sunday worship as apostasy?

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When looking at doctrine and comparing to scripture - name-calling is not part of the exercise.

But for the record we keep the 7th day Sabbath and also have worship services on Wednesday and in some cases Sunday.

BABerean2 said:

If a follower of Christ wanted to preach Christ to the Jews, where were the Jews gathered every week?

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If gentiles are hearing that gospel message on Sabbath (as they are in Acts 13) and it is informing them that there is a meeting "tomorrow" with more gospel preaching since "tomorrow" is the real Sabbath or not "Lord's day" -- then the gentiles would be asking for "more Gospel preaching TOMORROW" and not "next Sabbath" as we see in Acts 13

BobRyan said:

When looking at doctrine and comparing to scripture - name-calling is not part of the exercise.

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Well the point I am getting at is, Sunday worship is so far as Christianity is concerned, pretty ancient. The Didache mentions gathering together on the Lord's day to break bread as early as 70-120 AD.

Now the Bible does make it clear that the Church is the Body of Christ with Him at it's head. And Christ states that the 'Gates of Hades will not prevail against it'.

Your position would state that as early as the second century the Church fell away into error, and remained in such a state until 150 odd years ago?

If so, how can you trust the same Church that fell into error so quickly to preserve the scriptures accurately? Did God give them the grace to preserve the NT canon, but left them to their own devices in other matters?

It's worth noting that Christ Himself was not legalistically adherent to the Sabbath. One of the constant accusations against Him was breaking the Sabbath.

Lawrence87 said:

Well the point I am getting at is, Sunday worship is so far as Christianity is concerned, pretty ancient.

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Agreed - but Sabbath as Saturday - the 7th day of the week is far more ancient - and in that case it is actually in the Bible, and one of the actual Ten Commandments

Lawrence87 said:

If so, how can you trust the same Church that fell into error so quickly to preserve the scriptures accurately? Did God give them the grace to preserve the NT canon, but left them to their own devices in other matters?

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In Acts 20 Paul said "IMMEDIATELY AFTER" my departure - savage wolves would come in , and people would arise "From among your own selves" teaching error.

In the book of 3 John we are informed it had gotten so bad that they were kicking people out of church if they accepted the apostles teaching.

So "no errors possible" is not the report of the NT writers.

Lawrence87 said:

It's worth noting that Christ Himself was not legalistically adherent to the Sabbath. One of the constant accusations against Him was breaking the Sabbath.

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His false accusers were constantly accusing him of working with the devil (Matt 12) and of various sins -- (and remember that "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 - even in the NT)

In Matt 5 - Jesus condemns the notion of accusing Him of teaching people to ignore even the "least" commandment.

Jesus was not "legalistically adherent to the command to not take God's name in vain -- still... He was sinless and never did that one either"

Lawrence87 said:

It's worth noting that Christ Himself was not legalistically adherent to the Sabbath. One of the constant accusations against Him was breaking the Sabbath.

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It is my understanding that the Eastern Orthodox church does not teach against the TEN Commandments

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From The Longer Catechism of The Orthodox, Catholic, Eastern Church • Pravoslavieto.com

65. Where may we find the elements of the doctrine of charity?

In the Ten Commandments of the Law of God.


490. You said that these Commandments were given to the people of Israel: must we, then, also walk by them?

We must: for they are in substance the same law which, in the words of St. Paul, has been written in the hearts of all men, that all should walk by it.


491. Did Jesus Christ teach men to walk by the Ten Commandments?

He bade men, if they would attain to everlasting life, to keep the Commandments and taught us to understand and fulfill them more perfectly than had been done before he came. Matt xix. 17, and v.

On the Division of the Commandments into Two Tables.

492. What means the division of the Ten Commandments into two tables?

This: that they contain two kinds of love--love to God, and love to our neighbor; and prescribe two corresponding kinds of duties.

BobRyan said:

In Acts 20 Paul said "IMMEDIATELY AFTER" my departure - savage wolves would come in , and people would arise "From among your own selves" teaching error.

In the book of 3 John we are informed it had gotten so bad that they were kicking people out of church if they accepted the apostles teaching.

So "no errors possible" is not the report of the NT writers.

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Agreed. There is a propensity for error in the Church, this is attested throughout it's history and was the reason for many Ecumenical Councils. However, this is not the same as stating that the entirety of the Church would fall into error.

The Gates of Hades not prevailing against it, as well as the Church being described as the 'Body of Christ' support this. No matter how many errors and heresies might arise the Church will always prevail.

In any case, you seem to admit that the Church fell into error pretty much straight away by instating Sunday worship, but you didn't answer my question. How can you trust the erroneous Church to preserve the scriptures that you so adamantly adhere to? Did God grant his grace to the Church just insofar as preserving the NT canon was concerned?

BobRyan said:

It is my understanding that the Eastern Orthodox church does not teach against the TEN Commandments

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Yes. But it also grants authority to the Church, who instated Sunday worship, it has the authority to do so, had the grace of God in so doing, and therefore that takes precedent.

Lawrence87 said:

Yes. But it also grants authority to the Church, who instated Sunday worship, it has the authority to do so, had the grace of God in so doing, and therefore that takes precedent.

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Jesus is The Rock and His church is built on His word. There has always been a remnant of God's church which is the minority according to scriptures not the majority. Jesus never gave permission to change God's commandments, its quite the opposite. Matthew 5:17-20, Proverbs 30:5-6

Scripture tells us God's saints keep the commandments of God. Revelations 12:17, Revelations 14:12

Lawrence87 said:

Agreed. There is a propensity for error in the Church, this is attested throughout it's history and was the reason for many Ecumenical Councils. However, this is not the same as stating that the entirety of the Church would fall into error.

The Gates of Hades not prevailing against it, as well as the Church being described as the 'Body of Christ' support this. No matter how many errors and heresies might arise the Church will always prevail.

In any case, you seem to admit that the Church fell into error pretty much straight away by instating Sunday worship,

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Actually I don't claim the entire church fell into error. And of course there is at least "one" doctrinal difference between all denominations.

BobRyan said:

If gentiles are hearing that gospel message on Sabbath (as they are in Acts 13) and it is informing them that there is a meeting "tomorrow" with more gospel preaching since "tomorrow" is the real Sabbath or not "Lord's day" -- then the gentiles would be asking for "more Gospel preaching TOMORROW" and not "next Sabbath" as we see in Acts 13

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Joh_20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


Act_20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


1Co_16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Is meeting on the first day of the week wicked as some in the SDA have claimed.
Is it the "mark of the beast"?

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BobRyan said:

Actually I don't claim the entire church fell into error.

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What about the Orthodox Church?

Lawrence87 said:

What about the Orthodox Church?

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When did the Orthodox church coming into being? and do you agree that it affirms the Ten Commandments as noted in this post? 37 minutes ago #267

BABerean2 said:

Joh_20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

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Still no weekly meeting example?
Still calling it "week day 1"?

BABerean2 said:

Act_20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

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Still no weekly meeting example?
Still calling it "week day 1"?

1Co_16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Still no weekly meeting example?
Still calling it "week day 1"?

"lay by himself at home" as Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT - notes. (Not a Sabbath keeping POV scholar)

Is meeting on the first day of the week wicked as some in the SDA have claimed.
Is it the "mark of the beast"?

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Nope - and neither is meeting on Wednesday for prayer meeting.

BobRyan said:

When did the Orthodox church coming into being? and do you agree that it affirms the Ten Commandments as noted in this post? 37 minutes ago #267

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The Orthodox Church is the Apostolic Church it dates back to 33AD.

The Church affirms the Ten Commandments, it also affirms Sunday as the Lord's day upon which the Eucharist is celebrated.

Lawrence87 said:

The Church affirms the Ten Commandments, it also affirms Sunday as the Lord's day upon which the Eucharist is celebrated.

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So the Sabbath commandment given in Ex 20:8-11 was changed from "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10 to now pointing to the first day of the week in your POV?

If so - how is it that all reference to "Sabbath" in the NT - still point to the 7th day in your POV?

Is keeping the 7th day Sabbath as found in the actual Ten Commandments - an act complying with the commandment or opposing it in your POV?

Is there any Bible text saying "week-day-1 is the Lord's day" in your POV?

Is there any Bible text saying that the NT saints had a weekly week-day-1 worship service?

SabbathBlessings said:

1. The bible uses the day of the Lord in reference to the Sabbath, so this is just another version of it. Mark 2:28, Isaiah 58:13 Maybe you can find scripture stating the first day is God's holy day in the bible.
2. My only scripture is the bible, I don't follow traditions of the church. Jesus warns about this Matthew 15:3-9

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1. the day of Lord does not refer to the Sabbath, It refer to the the day of Judgement, or to his return. you prove other wise.

2. My only scripture is the Bible, I agree with you on the sabbath that it is still valid and binding and the SDA's mission is to resurrect the sabbath in the entire Christian world. so you are without merit saying I am trying to get you to abandon the sabbath and have Sunday as a day of worship. In order to achieve that goal of Sabbath ressurection you must be accurate about the evidence, because no one will listen to you who knows other wise. you are trying to appear educated and knowledgeable and saintly, but to those who actually know it appears foolish, stubborn and ignorant.

3. I don't follow tradition , and we are not following "tradition" when we use the Church History. What we are doing is confirming what a person claim. like it or not the church has a track record and we can confirm what is said and done by looking history. People claim all sorts of things about the Church we can verify of deny them by looking at the record. people says the Sabbath was abandoned well church history says other wise, People say the Lord's day and the Sabbath are the same thing, well history says otherwise.

BobRyan said:

Still no weekly meeting example?
Still calling it "week day 1"?



Still no weekly meeting example?
Still calling it "week day 1"?

1Co_16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Still no weekly meeting example?
Still calling it "week day 1"?

"lay by himself at home" as Robertson's Word Pictures of the NT - notes. (Not a Sabbath keeping POV scholar)



Nope - and neither is meeting on Wednesday for prayer meeting.

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You are correct about one thing.
This day of meeting was not called a "sabbath".
Why not?


Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


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BobRyan said:

When looking at doctrine and comparing to scripture - name-calling is not part of the exercise.

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simple question, simple answer. anything else is game playing. BTW the SDA church claims that Sunday worship is Apostasy and represents rebellion. they originally said it was due to compromise with the Pagan's but that could not be sustained.